"9/11 happened because * is president."

[Skidmore]

My beloved husband blurted this out to me on our commute into work this morning. If I hadn't had my seatbelt on, I would have fallen out of my seat. Now my husband tends to support Ds but hasn't been inclined to look deeply into *'s role in 9/11 and has tended at time to voice some level of support of the war. He then went on to inform me he was going down to the Kerry/Edwards local headquarters this afternoon and ask for a yard sign and a bumper sticker for his car. Now this man has NEVER stuck anything on to a car.

He is very enthusiastic about Edwards and spent yesterday evening channel surfing for any mention of Kerry/Edwards being broadcast. And that snotty comment that * made when asked about Edwards pushed him over the edge. He watched that and muttered, "* is an effin bully and I can't wait till this election is over to see him go."

What a great way to start the day!!!

[AnnitaR]

1. The tide has turned!

I knew it the day my father asked me to put one of those bumper stickers with the W and a big slash through it on the back of his truck along with one that says "If you aren't completely appalled you haven't been paying attention"!

I think the Evil Chimp is in for quite the rude awakening on Election night!

[sweetheart]

2. 9/11 happened because the armed forces are used to bully

The army has been busy destroying democracies worldwide, and it
was just a matter of time until the bully got a black eye.

Kerry/Edwards is our next presidency... but we must face the fact
that the democratic party (read: "war party") has some complicity
in the army having bases all over the world to project empire.

THe military should only leave our shores to defend the people of
the country, not its corporations or some pathetic image of crap
global mediocrity pax-americiana. Because they have been sloppy
invading and bombing as a malefic force, they have earned their
comeuppance.

Sadly the army and the government is equated with the people... but
this cold war child has, like all my generation been ripped off by
the big army, and we all pay by poor schools and nonexistant public
services whilst paying a massive tax burden for a global army empire
that has become evil.

It appears that anyone but bush, does not change the empire... yet
indeed it is a vast improvement to 86 the fascists.

[Skidmore]

3. I agree wholeheartedly but

I'm satisfied that this particular man has taken an interest and is now open to discussion.

[sweetheart]

4. Yes, celibrating a victory

It is a good victory when someone is willing to say "yes" to life
and especially when its someone you love.

:-) Yes

Your post inspires... just i felt it to challenge your husband's
wishful statement.

[SonofMass]

43. What would you say are the top 10 democracies that the

army has destroyed?

[James T. Kirk]

5. Now hold on a second! 9/11 would have happened with Gore, too!

Al Qaeda was planning the attacks for a long time. I don't think they were holding off on whether to attack until they knew the results of the electoral college vote.

[bowens43]

6. Of course they were holding off....

Bin Laden needed a very particular kind of idiot in the oval office in order for his plans to be successful. They needed someone who would over react. Someone who would immediately piss off the entire Muslim world. The 911 attack wasn't the pinnacle of Bin Ladens plans, it was an act meant to instigate further conflicts between the west and Islamic nations. Bin laden found the perfect idiot in Bush. A drunken macho cowboy who acts without thinking.

If Gore had been office 911 would not have happened. Either the plans would have been postponed or Gore would have paid attention to the dozens of warnings received from the various intelligence agencies.
Through negligence or complicity, 911 happened because bush allowed it to happen.

[Justice]

7. We will never know; But We know Iraq Would Not Have Happened

I cannot say that 9/11 would not have happened with Gore, but I can say this --

Gore would have been working for most of August, he would have read the August 6 briefing and asked for more information

Gore's Attorney General would have been interested in Intelligence information (unlike Ashcroft who said, don't talk to be about terrorism again and tried to cut funding)

Richard Clark would have been heard by Gore and others (not just in the summer of 2001, but his plan would have been acted upon at the beginning of the Gore administration).

Really 9/11 could have been stopped by a simple act of an airline ticket agent or flight attendent speaking up about a suspicious passenger or passengers. That is if someone had alerted the airlines that "OSAMA DETERMINED TO ATTACK INSIDE THE UNITED STATES" using airlines. It would not have taken much to thwart the attack, just one alert and fully briefed agent in Portland Maine or Boston.


And on edit, as said in my headline, even if 9/11 had happened, Gore would have hunted down Bin Laden and not gone into Iraq. The world would be a very different place right now.

[rocktivity]

14. Originally posted by Justice

Really 9/11 could have been stopped by a simple act of an airline ticket agent or flight attendent speaking up about a suspicious passenger or passengers.

How come nobody thought it was odd that six people got on a plane with box cutters in their carry-on luggage?

:headbang:
rocknation

[James T. Kirk]

19. Actually, someone did report them to a flight attendant.

Actor James Woods noticed some of the highjackers on a practice run for the "martyrdom" attacks. He reported it to the flight crew and they reported it to the FAA. Unfortunately, it looks like the FAA didn't do enough with the information.

[Booster]

39. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if the FBI/CIA

had just shared the names of the highjackers with the airlines. They boasted after 9/11 that they knew these people were up to something and if they knew who they were on 9/12, then they knew who they were on 9/11. Again, the government is just too secretive and plain stupid in my opinion.

[James T. Kirk]

18. Gore already knew everything in the 8/6/01 briefing.

Here is the document:

"Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US"
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0409041pdb1.html

I wish Gore and Bush could have gotten the information to the proper people and taken the right actions before the terrorist attacks. Unfortunately, I don't think the country was ready for a Patriot Act crackdown on foreign nationals or a war in Afghanistan in early 2001 or 2000.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. What nonsense

Gore did all he could. Bush was not interested in listening.
Please don't come here and blame Bush's failures on the man who should have been president.

[James T. Kirk]

47. I didn't blame Gore for Bush's lack of prediction of 9/11.

I wish BOTH could have done more.

[BattyDem]

38. Another thing: If Gore was President ...

John O'Neill would have been allowed to stay in Yemen and complete the investigation of the USS Cole bombing. Also, O'Neill never would have been forced out of the FBI.

For those not familiar with John O'Neill:
http://www.rememberjohn.com/

[James T. Kirk]

50. O'Neill left the FBI in August 2001 after differing with Amb. Bodine.

!

[Gold Metal Flake]

51. Differing???

You have the gall to call it "differing"? The Bush STATE Department in the personage of Barbara Bodine DERAILED the Yemin investigation by preventing John O'Neill from obtaining a visa to return for vital questioning of an important suspect. Then, O'Neill left the FBI in disgust even as he was being drummed out of it. If Gore had taken office, O'Neill would have returned to Yemin. As it is, Bodine caused untold damage to the US counterterrorism efforts, the asshole.

Also, if Gore had taken office, Colleen Rowley would have gotten her FISA warrant in the moussaoui (sp?) case. I dare say a LOT of FISA warrants would have been issued. The connection from him to Hamburg and then Atta would have been discovered. The Clinton Anti-terror system would have been working all the intelligence all along. The Pheonix memo would not have been ignored.

It is quite likely that 9/11 could have been avoided, or postponed to the point of being uncovered, or at least it would not have been as bad. This bullshit RW meme about how Gore would have cowered on 9/11 is not only bullshit (he DID serve, not for long but he went over there), it ignores the extreme, horrific and goddamn deliberate counter-terror failures of the Bush Administration.

They LIHOP.

[James T. Kirk]

53. Bodine was appointed to Yemen in 1997.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Bodine

Why did Clinton-Gore appoint her and keep her in that post for so long...:tinfoilhat:...unless...maybe they were in on it, too and they planted her there in advance to stop O'Neill! Just kidding!:P

I wouldn't say that Gore would have cowered on 9/11. I think there is a good chance he would have done the same things Bush did.

[Gold Metal Flake]

54. Bodine is Republican.

She served her masters well.

[jukes]

8. James T. Kirk

i disagree. Gore, given the information that bush had, wd have taken measures to stop it.

bush let it happen because he knew he cd use it to dupe the public into supporting his oil-war.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Plus if the attack did happen

when the first plane struck the WTC1, Gore probably would have already ordered jets scrambled, because he would have already known that at least 4 passenger jets had been hijacked.

One thing is for sure, Gore definitely wouldn't have continued to sit in a second grade classroom, reading a book about goats.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. and the planes that needed to be scrambled

would not have been conveniently far away playing war games.

[James T. Kirk]

33. "let it happen"

:tinfoilhat: :crazy:
You mean like the Roosevelt-Wallace administration let Pearl Harbor be attacked and lost the Phillipines so the US could attack French North Africa (wihtout approval from the League of Nations, even though there was NO EVIDENCE linking Petain to the 12/7 attacks), paving the way for the US and Britain and the other "allies" to sieze control of the oil fields of Africa and the Middle East and FDR could cement his oil relationship with the House of Saud?

:tinfoilhat: :crazy:
Did you know that the first shot fired at Pearl Harbor was by Americans shooting at a Japanese sub? Did you know that a radar station saw the Japanese attackers on the way, but misinterpreted the images due to a lack of proper training?
:tinfoilhat: :crazy:

I'm just goofing on you. FDR did not "let" Pearl Harbor happen on purpose. I grow weary of you X-Files conspiracy theory people.

:tinfoilhat: :crazy:

[milkyway]

10. 9/11 NEVER would have happened under President Gore.

9/11 might have been a BFEE production, or at least allowed to happen. People like Richard Clark and numerous FBI agents were stunned at the level of disinterest bush showed toward al Queda. Boring policy wonk Al Gore, on the other hand, would hardly have slept in the summer of 2001. Clinton was scared shitless that a terrorist attack would occur while he was President; Gore would have been the same way. Rather than the zero meetings and cutting of counterterrorism funding that happened under bush, the intel coming in during the summer of 2001 would have had Gore make stopping an attack his number one priority.

[xocolatl]

11. Used to be "conspiracy theory"

Within the first year of 911 I came to the conclusion that BFEE was behind 911, or at least that it was a reasonable hypothesis. Everybody told me I was a conspiracy theorist :tinfoilhat:. Now more people are starting to talk about this openly.

It's not like such a thing is unprecedented in history. (E.g. Reichstag fire.)

[ProfessorGAC]

12. I Think You're Wrong

The tenor of the early Bush administration, with treaties being nullified, "big stick" rhetoric, and the like created at atmosphere that al Qaeda misread.

Since the whole world was irritated with the U.S. because of the demeanor of the Bush gang in foreign policy (remember at that point, even Blair was encouraging Li'l Georgie to cool it), Bin Laden's boys assumed that everyone hated us as much as they did. I sincerely believe that they assumed THEY would get the world sympathy and support.

That hubris led to the go ahead to launch these attacks and defined the targets. A Gore admin would not have created that environment and may (not definitely, but certainly within the realm of probability) have negated the attacks.
The Professor

[James T. Kirk]

20. You mean the Kyoto treaty?

You think al Qaeda was upset that the Senate had not ratified the Kyoto treaty?

[Cheswick2.0]

30. is that the only treaty you have ever hear of?

?

[James T. Kirk]

45. Do you mean the ABM Treaty? The NATO treaty?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. Extremely doubtful. Gore would have implemented the...

...anti-terrorist plan that they recommended that the NeoCons put into place. This is the same anti-terrorist plan that the NeoCons tried to claim during the 911 Commission that they had never seen.

The NeoCons either ignored the terrorist threat for the first eight months of their NeoCon Coup out of complete stupidity, or because they knew that they wanted an attack to succeed to help them further their own agenda.

IMHO, under a Gore presidency we might not have completely stopped the 911 attacks, but I'm betting we would have been a heck of a lot better prepared. I'm also of the opinion that interceptors would have been in the air quite a bit faster and in more numbers than the five planes that flew 30-40 minutes late on 911.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. Gore would have paid attention to the Gore report

which said that something like this could happen and we should start taking security more seriously.

[NewJeffCT]

16. Can't say for sure if it would have happened

Remember, Richard Clarke wanted to send special forces into Pakistan & Afghanistan to hunt bin Laden a year before 9/11. If Gore was well ahead in the polls, Clinton probably would have been more aggressive in his response, but instead did not want to hand a war over to Bush... The Bush team repeatedly ignored terrorism upon taking office, with one person even poo-pooing the threat by saying that "Osama bin Laden doesn't have any missiles" - implying that Star Wars was more important.

If Gore had won, terrorism would have continued to have been a high priority upon his assuming office and maybe, just maybe, 9/11 could have been stopped.

Nobody can say for sure, but we know Bush ignored terrorism and 9/11 happened. We do know Gore would not have ignored terrorism.

[JHB]

17. It MIGHT have happened with Gore...

...I'm not prepared to proclaim it wouldn't have happened under a Gore administration, but we know with Gore terrorism wasn't the back-burner issue it was with the Bushies (and in real terms, still is). The odds of it being discovered and stopped under Gore were much higher than under the Bushites.

"Would have" or "might have" can be disputed, but here is the one indisputable point: Whatever your opinion of the state of antiterrorism measures under the Clinton administration, the Bush Administration reduced their priority and cut back their resources, lowering our level of defense from what had existed previously.

No small irony for an administration filled with people who spent the 70s and 80s criticized Democrats in general and liberals in particular for being for "unilateral disarmament."

[SpiralHawk]

22. Gore might not have taken a month off before 9/11

And Gore might not have ignored the many warnings that came before 9/11.

And Gore might not have sat reading "The Pet Goat" and dawdling about aimlessly for 1/2 hour while America was under attack -- and he was fully informed of the fact -- on 9/11.

And Gore might just have had the presence of mind to take control of the situation, and order the defense of Washington and the Pentagon.

But we will never know. The 2000 election was stolen.

I will not hold on - not for a second or a millisecond. You cannot lay Bush's incompetence and malfeasance on 9/11 at the feet of anyone else, especially not Al Gore's. I do not think 9/11 would have happened, or happened as severely and "mysteriously" if the man who actually won the 2000 election was in office.

[Octafish]

24. No. Clarke said Clinton/Gore paid ATTENTION to OBL-Al Qaeda.

Richard Clarke said Bush had zero interest in counterterrorism. Same goes for Condescenda and the rest of the Bushgang.

Don't believe me, read Clarke's book, "Against All Enemies." There are several other intel-counterespionage-counterterror experts who are on record as saying the same thing.

Clinton/Gore had a plan in place to take out OBL after the USS Cole bombing, which happened in October 2000. It wasn't instituted, the attack happening so close to the election.

The doofus Bush canned the plan after taking power. He didn't want to hurt ENRON's chances for the the Afghan NG pipeline.

[oasis]

42. Bush also ignored the Hart-Rudman report.(n/t)

[Cheswick2.0]

26. It would not have

Because Gore would have been paying attention to the problem, not willfully looking the other way.

[LunaC]

37. WRONG!

911 was brought to you via the PNAC Bush* Cabal.....

In May 2001 the U.S. State Department met with Iran, German and Italian officials to discuss Afghanistan. It was decided that the ruling Taliban would be toppled and a "broad-based government" would control the country so a gas pipeline could be built there.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/7969.pdf.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


Even as plans were being made to remove the Taliban rulers from power, Colin Powell announced a $43 million "gift" to Afghanistan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html


Meanwhile, the U.S. Embassy in the UAE received a call that Bin Laden supporters were in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives. It was rumored that Bin Laden was interested in hijacking U.S. aircraft.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf

In June 2001 the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense was changed. NORAD’s military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage2.asp

In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,556254,00.html


In September 2001 the "catastrophic and catalyzing" modern-day Pearl Harbor envisioned years earlier by the White House members of thePNAC came to pass when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked with U.S. aircraft. Immediately, the finger of blame was pointed at Osama bin Laden, a former CIA operative with ties to Afghanistan. Suddenly, the U.S. "gift" of $43 million to the Taliban in May was cast in a new light. Coincidentally, Pakistan had participated in the plan to attack Afghanistan and the chief of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence agency was later linked to a 911 hijacker after wiring him $100,00 just days before the WTC fell.

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=1454238160


In October 2001, with flags waving, crowds cheering, and anthems playing, the "War On Terror" and the hunt for Osama began when Afghanistan was attacked right on schedule of July's secret meeting

Shorrtly afterwards, public focus was diverted to Iraq.


NONE OF THE WOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH GORE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!


For FULL details on the PNAC coup of the White House see "The Whispering Campaign" link below.

[seabeyond]

15. my 9 year old said bush sounded like a bully

when he said that about cheney could be president. he was watching last night and didnt like at all the way bush said it. he knows what a bully looks like. then giggled and laugh about kerry and the hair comment. his eyes got big, surprised kerry would make a joke but loved it

[Zen]

21. I had a vision within days of the Chimps election that hatred of him

would cause a cataclysmic disaster involving direct hatred of the Bush's and especially the Chimps form of bigoted ignorance (sic). All of the visions I have had in the past have come true, though I am pretty sure 9/11 was not the climax in this one? I hope it was though.

[James T. Kirk]

27. Please list your other visions.

If you have any other visions, let us know.

What will be the electoral college results in 2004?
Who will win the World Series?
Where will the Nasdaq be at the end of next week?
Where is Omar?

Maybe you should contact the CIA. They used to pay paranormal folks for their visions. Maybe they could restart the program.

[Zen]

40. I wish it was an "on demand" kind of thing!

Only very significant tramatic events can be shared - usually involving people I know well. This was the first one about national events. Don't ask about the source of the information - I just call it a "friend on the other side". Weird huh?

[oasis]

23. Gore would not have ignored Osama nor the Palestinian/Israeli feud.

Al Gore wouldn't have had a ditzy Condi Rice running the NSA.

[James T. Kirk]

25. Remember that Intifada 2 started in September 2000.

Clinton-Gore's policy may have appeared to be more "active", but it failed to achieve a settlement and instead led to Intifada 2, which put the parties farther away from an agreement than they were in early 2000.

There were lots of problems with both the Clinton-Gore policy and with the Bush-Cheney policy. Gore-Lieberman might have done a little better, but I doubt that they could have completely dealt with that particular porcupine in only eight months before September 11, 2001.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. yeah blame it on Clinton Gore

ignore all the evidence.

[James T. Kirk]

46. I actually think it was mostly Arafat's fault.

Clinton deserves a lot of credit for trying, but I think he drastically misread what could be done with Arafat.

[truthspeaker]

35. Clinton's approach "failed" because Sharon would not play ball

Arafat wasn't much help either, but Sharon provoked the intifadeh, on purpose.

[SonofMass]

44. Clinton says that it was the fault of Arafat in 'My Life'.

[James T. Kirk]

49. Clinton has a point.

Arafat blew it.

[James T. Kirk]

48. Barak-Arafat summit ended in July 2000. Sharon visit was in Sept. 2000.

The peace talks between Clinton, Barak and Arafat had already collapsed in July 2000 because Arafat walked away from negotiations. Sharon made his inflammatory visit to the Temple Mount in late September 2000.

Sharon was only an opposition leader until he became leader in February 2001, in response to Intifadah 2.

[oasis]

41. "Traditional hijackings" Condileeza not connecting the 9/11 dots. Bush

administration incompetency played a large role in the deaths of 3,000. That is an unavoidable fact.

The 9/11 wives have done a ton of research on this and have reached the same conclusion.

Richard Clarke, terrorism czar, says Chimpy and co. took their eyes off of the ball.

[Hubert Flottz]

34. I think your husband is exactly right!

I've thought the same thing from day one! Things that have surfaced since 9/11, tended to solidify that thought within my troubled mind! Such as Bush's "Trifecta" crack and the fact that within a VERY short time the "Patriot Act" was ready to roll!

Can you say Reichstag Fire? * Sure I knew you could say that!

[LeftHander]

36. For every single person who turns....

THere are tens of thousands more just like them.

YAY!!!

[donhakman]

52. bush turns