Great it worked :-(

[apnu]

Ridge mentions "canceling" elections and suddenly we all turn like fish in school in a new direction. Forget the emerging allegations of child torture in Iraq, forget Kenny-boy and his ties to both Bush and Cheney, forget Kerry/Edwards (probably most importantly to the GOP)

Today, I feel, that DU is reacting in hysteria to this Ridge thing and missing the ball. There have been echoes of this business for weeks now and suddenly its a big deal? Come on! We're showing everybody that we are just as easily lead as the zombies who actually take Fox news as fact!

Trust me, if this thing is real we'll find out pretty quickly from Kerry. This idea hurts him more than anything else. One way or another we'll know if this is real or imagined.

If Kerry responds with a call of having the elections then we know that chimp wants to halt them to keep power.

If Kerry says its a non-issue then it probably is.

If Kerry says its a good idea, then we are all doomed.

But at least wait for what our candidate will do and say before running around like chickens with their heads off. OK?

[Beware the Beast Man]

1. KICK KICK KICK KICK!!!!

Big old kick! :kick: Thanks for being a voice of reason!

[ewagner]

Good call.....

keep it :kick: 'ed

[AP]

2. People were getting a little too happy with K-E. Turn up the fear. F911

predicted this. They said Fear is like a spigot the Republicans use to keep people at a steady level of being inclined to vote against their best interests. They only dialed it up because K-E were making people too happy and optimistic.

[wkirby]

3. Amen

Amen AP. Well said!

-Will

[JoeRunion]

5. I dunno. I lost a HS classmate on 9-11. Questioning the alerts pisses me

off just a little bit. I mean...what is it we want done? We have screamed that we should have been warned prior to 9-11. I sure wish my friend had been warned. So now we get warned and all we do is question the motives.
I hope we keep getting warned. I never want to go through a day like that again.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. I am sorry for your loss, but there is no doubt in mind that

these warnings have nothing to do with troubel from terrorists and everything to do with trouble for the junta in the public's opinion.

[Occulus]

10. Would you rather be warned for political reasons,

or warned because there's an actual, credible threat?

That's the question we're addressing: the, ah, "timeliness" of this particular terror alert.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. "I dunno. I lost a HS classmate on 9-11. Questioning the alerts pisses me"

off just a little bit. I mean...what is it we want done? We have screamed that we should have been warned prior to 9-11. I sure wish my friend had been warned. So now we get warned and all we do is question the motives.
I hope we keep getting warned. I never want to go through a day like that again.<<

We were deliberately not warned. End of story.

Questions That Condoleezza Rice Should Answer
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/topic.php?tid=304

S S Condoleeza... she's a beauty.... idn't it.

[Bridget Burke]

13. The pre-9/11 warnings were ignored by those in power.

Security agencies of our own country & others warned that an attack was imminent. It was allowed to proceed. It's not so much that "we" should have been warned--although a warning to evacuate the entire WTC immediately after first plane hit might have saved lives. But the president was sitting like a stunned ox in Florida as people died.

The same gang of crooks is cynically using terror warnings to hide news stories that make them look bad. Using the death of your friend (& so many others) as a political tool.

[chiburb]

15. Hey Joe, long time no see!

Unless I searched wrong, I don't see ANY posts from you in the last 6 months. Where ya been hiding?

[apnu]

19. I, too, am sorry for your loss, and have had my own.

And you know what? I've lost friends in 9/11 too. My father-in-law, who is a fireman in NY, and my sister-in-law who is a paramedic in NY were both on the way down to the city as their county was called for assistance. But they were called off when they were 1/2 way there.

I know well the horrors 9/11 just as many others here do.

I'm not questioning 9/11... I'm not questioning vigilance... What I'm questioning is our insane reaction to a quip by Ridge that's sent us all into a tizzy.

What others are questioning is the ethical issue of canceling a national election.

What tons of people are questioning is the validity and truth to the HSA's statements. They've buggered it in the past, and many feel they are buggering it again.

It has nothing to do with warnings or 9/11.

I'm sorry for sounding so rough, but I see that I've touched a nerve with you, and you've touched a nerve of mine in return.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. Sorry for your loss, but the NeoCons continue to scream "terror"....

...every single time something comes up that they don't want the American people to dwell on...like the choice of Edwards as Kerry's VP or today's indictment of Ken Lay.

If you think I'm lying, check out all of the times in the past that the NeoCons have declared a "terror alert" and then look at the news taking place at that point in time. I guarantee you the the news was something the NeoCons didn't like, just like now.

And just curious...what good is a "terror alert" anyway? Does it help you or anyone else to know that something unspecified at an unspecified location may happen?? If the terrorists are any good at what they do, they will carry out their plans and there will be nothing any of us can do to stop it.

And we have only the NeoCons to blame for this nightmare in which we are currently living.

[AP]

23. You think a red alert would have saved your friend. What do you do when

it goes up to yellow or red? Do you not go to work?

The Republicans don't tell you what to do. They just want you to be afraid.

You know what would make me feel safe? Take all the money the spend on the alerts and use it to search more containers at ports. You know the Republicand defunded that program because they didn't want to to take back the tax cuts for the rich to pay for it.

[chiburb]

35. What would make me feel safer is a "troll detector"...

see post #15

[tom_paine]

24. I apologize for us being in the Soviet Dilemma

What to believe when the government becomes Soviet/Nazi level of lies (NOT violnece, NOT Racism...LIES ONLY)?

If true to the form of Totalitarianism throughout history, they will warn us when there is no danger and look the other wqay when there is danger.

With Totalitarians like the Busheviks, it's all about their interests. They would let MANY Americans die to further there interests.

How many killed in Iraq? How many legless, armelss, etc."

What a building full of liberals to Monsters such as the Imperial Family?

I would question the Bush* government for exactly the same reasons and at exactly the same level as I would question Nazi or Soviet "warnings".

[JoeRunion]

36. With all due respect, that's nutty

America isn't anything like the Bolsheviks or the Nazis. Nobody is being imprisoned or killed. Property isn't being confiscated. We aren't annexing any countries. The media can say what it wants about our leaders. Regardless of how we feel about the party in charge, please. It is nowhere near the horrible totalitarian states you have mentioned.

[apnu]

9. oh yes... FUD FUD FUD

M$ (Microsoft for those of you who aren't slashdot.org readers) is a big GOP contributer and they are masters of FUD. I'm betting that Bill Gates has been giving Pinky and the Brain lots of pointers on this.

OK that's a little far fetched but I hope you see my point. FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) rules everything right now. Salesmen (see M$) use it to jack up sales. The GOP uses it to push their agenda. Nader uses it to seem legit.

And, yes, Dean used it to great affect in his campaign.

I was never as big on Kerry and Edwards than I was with Dean and DK, but notice that there a marked difference in K-E's usage of FUD in their campaigns. Good for them!

This is all FUD, and close reading of that actual news that everybody is citing bears this out. There are tons of inconsistencies in the data, a clear sign of FUD.

Don't be fooled.

[AP]

27. I thought it was "Fear, Urgency, Disaster"?

For those who don't know, it's a sales technique that's especially popular with software companies.

First you convince your potential customer that there is a threat to their operations if they don't buy your software, then you tell them they have to act right now and if they don't there will be huge potential loss and disruption to their business: Fear, Urgency, Disaster -- FUD.

The point is to confuse people out of doing a rational cost-benefit analysis.

It's also the technique Bush uses to convince people to vote republican.

[apnu]

31. yeah, the jargon dictionary says:

"Defined by Gene Amdahl after he left IBM to found his own company: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering products." The idea, of course, was to persuade them to go with safe IBM gear rather than with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment or software. See IBM. After 1990 the term FUD was associated increasingly frequently with Microsoft, and has become generalized to refer to any kind of disinformation used as a competitive weapon."

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/f/FUD.html

[jobycom]

4. We all know how we'll vote

even if that's not all we are talking about at the moment.

Nothing wrong with discussing amongst ourselves all the strongest arguments against Bush's games. That way when we wonder into the outside world we will have the best answers ready for those who aren't as convinced.

Good call, though. They know they can't cancel the elections. But stringing us along is a distraction. And then when they admit later that they would never consider it, some people may even look more kindly on them for stopping the threat. Good call.

[Tweed]

6. "An eye for an eye makes the world blind"

I would be killed before I bought a gun to kill someone else. Violence doesn't solve anything.

[elcondor]

7. Thank you!

If Ridge says something like he did, it is cause for concern--but we shouldn't begin to PANIC yet. I trust Kerry to handle this and I don't think the average person on the street would stand for moving or cancelling the election. (Dare I say it: even the average Bush voter wouldn't.)

[spinbaby]

11. Ridge talked about cancelling elections?!?!

Geez, a person goes to lunch and misses all kinds of stuff. Can anyone point me to a good thread about this?

[Ripley]

17. This one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1947888&mesg_id=1947888

[spinbaby]

26. Thanks

:-)

[AndyTiedye]

14. As Well We Might!

What good is having a great team running
that could certainly win the election,
IF THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE A FEEPING ELECTION?!?!?

[ibegurpard]

16. It needs to be nipped in the bud.

Softening people up to the idea that cancelling or postponing elections is acceptable is a very dangerous thing.

[tom_paine]

18. Interesting view. Worth considering.

Actaully, I wish many of the Self-Appointed "Tinfoil" "Debunking" Squad (which of course is quite short on actual debuinking and quite long on sneering dismissals like some other folks we know) would have that attitude.

It will be interesting to hear what Kerry & Edwards have to say.

One question: What if Kerry & Edwards say nothing at all?

[apnu]

20. scary thought...

... I'm not sure what it would say or mean.

Could mean that they feel its beneath their notice, and therefore a non issue.

Could mean (in the fantasy of some Nader supporters) that Kerry and Edwards are in league with the Bushies and this is all (the election) much ado about nothing.

Those are both off the hip thoughts, I have NO data to back that up, but that's my point isn't it? We should not be going crazy when we have very little data to go on. One sentence from Ridge shouldn't have our panties in a bunch.

[West Coast Democrat]

21. Most people aren't home watching TV right now...

and they could care less about the new, bogus terror warnings.

[apnu]

25. Neither am I...

I was talking about here on the DU forums.

Good point, though. People are getting tired of bogus alerts. I've even noticed that only FOX makes a big deal that "they still talk about alerts" (said by O'Riley when that Center for American Progress guy, whose name I can't remember or spell right now, was on)

As for "most people" I see one of two things happening.

A) The media will make so much noise about this that the story takes up a good chunk of evening news time (taking time from Lay and the Kerry/Edwards campaign coverage) and FUD'ing the populace.

or

B) They'll realize that the story isn't sticking and team simian will have the story yanked before the evening news.

Since the GOP are big fans of FUD, I'm going with idea "A"

[donhakman]

30. Even Novak was offended by the last alert

Last night I was clued in to todays announcement and posted "Get your fear vaccine here"

I reminded people about the bio attack Cheney warned and the subsequent Anthrax attack that the FBI discovered was made by a US military bio lab. Then the story and attacks were never heard of again.

You do not have to know about the Reichstad fire to understand what is happening.

[faithnotgreed]

28. agree. up to a point. there are so many issues they want to control

and they want to control the media and thus the people. i think we all agree on that.

however, i just emailed keith olbermann with my concern about this recent alert. in that i said, the more that this administration is exposed (a la cnn/tnr last night re pakistan and pressure for high value targets before election), the more their power is diminished.

true - there are so many very important issues this administration has caused as you mention, like ken lay etc but not many are more important than their possible overt and subliminal attempts to control incl this election.

they are scared. and if you have read the plame threads or other threads, you can understand a bit that these are people who are not going to go quietly. and they are seeing the writing is starting to appear on the wall.

[apnu]

33. i see your point

And I agree with you, I'm just calling to DU to calm down about the canceling election thing. There are many who are saying its a done deal already. If we want to shed the skin of "the loony left" then we need to act like it and be rational, even in the face of something so egregious as the cancellation of an election because someone got a feeling.

I'm not saying, don't talk about it. I'm saying that we should chill out and know that they (the GOP) will play us like fiddles at every opportunity. They've made an industry of playing us for chumps and to stop that we need to cease being so reactionary.

But, yes, a cornered animal is most dangerous. And the Bush administration is now starting to realize that they are either in a corner or will soon be in one. the signs are everywhere: rats fleeing the sinking ship, mis-steps in policy, confusing and conflicting flows of information, novice political mistakes.

Step back and you can see it unraveling, but that old ball of yarn still has surprises hidden in its coils.

[NNN0LHI]

29. When Kerry says...

..."the only thing to fear is fear itself" the scaremongers will be left sucking their thumbs and crying for their blanky. This shit will blow up in their faces. Just watch and see.

Don

[apnu]

34. I hope so... that would be beautiful!

*fingers crossed*

[Worst Username Ever]

32. Kick