Was I right about Edwards, or what?

[AP]

I feel like I'm seeing a lot of people who didn't believe me in the past now saying things I've said about Edwards. They seem to be echoing assessments I had about charisma, biography, demographic appeal, how his trial lawyering would be perceived by the public, etc., and they're embracing his persona as a guy who represents the interests of average Americans.

I'm not sure if I'm imagining this, however. So, a little poll:

[ewagner]

1. Here's another point of view

You have been a staunch advocate for Edwards and you weren't wrong about him.

I held equal advocacy for another but Edwards is an excellent addition to the ticket.

Congrats for your tireless advocacy.

[KC21304]

3. Ditto what you said. nt

[LSdemocrat]

9. Agree

[Tweed]

2. Still disagree and now disgusted by your attempt to have DU 'confirm'

your 'greatness'. Give it a rest AP.

[AP]

8. Stop it. You've always been disgusted.

[Cat Atomic]

4. Why do so many people think they're frigging Nastrodamus? :P

Honestly, I didn't have a list of who predicted what and for what reasons.

[AP]

6. I look back at the first presidential candidate I supported vigorously

and I think, "man, how was I so clueless."

Every election since then, I try to think about how things played out, because I want to have a better idea of what wins and what doesn't.

I know there are four months to go, but I think this thread is a good way for people to have that sort of reflection on the narrative arc of the 2004 campaign.

[Kahuna]

5. No one here ever discounted the shallow attributes that you have..

always attributed to Edwards. The shallow attributes were never in question. :shrug: The shallow attributes is what got bush elected in 2000. So, I don't get your point.

[AP]

7. I'm hoping to get a few testimonials from the people who checked #2.

I know you're out there. I know there's more than one.

[goodhue]

12. I checked #1

I knew you were right. I have long felt Kerry would pick Edwards. Although not an Edwards backer, I understand his appeal and appreciate his hopeful tone and working class themes.

[Az]

10. Um, why do you need our acknowledgement

If you have an opinion post it here. We are all here to share our opinions. We don't get to pick someone to be king of opinions. We each post our arguments and either do or do not convince others of our positions. If in time we learn one position was right then we learn from that and move on.

If you are having to make this post then perhaps the problem isn't with the issue you argued. Perhaps its in how you deleveried the message. Look up Cassandra Complex in a psych book.

[AP]

11. In My Life, Clinton writes about meeting a guy on an airplane. They

debated the '72 election. They had a different opinions. A year or two after the election, the guy called Clinton out of the blue and they debriefed on their differing opinons. It was a productive enough conversation (which probably informed Clinton's future strategies and opinions about politics and campaigning) that Clinton remembered it 30 years later and mentions it in his biography.

I was hoping this thread would stir that same kind of reflection.

It could be a useful conversation, once you put anger and ego aside.

[Tweed]

13. First off, I'm guessing Clinton was the guy who was correct

Second, Clinton didn't call the guy and say "Hey, wasn't I correct about my opinion I had a while back? Don't you think? Was I right or was I right?"

Third, if you hope to have a useful conversation, I suggest putting accusations of ego and anger aside. Your not so subtle reference to post #2 and your comments in the past can only suggest that you think my feelings against Edwards have everything to do with Clark. I suggest you take your head out of Edwards' ass for two seconds and realize that I always felt shaky about Edwards, still do and will most likely continue to feel shaky about him.

Next time you want to have a 'useful' conversation don't start by saying "see I told you so!".

[AP]

16. The guy on the airplane called him and said, "I wanted to give you the...

...chance to say I told you so to me."

It was very mature of him to do that.

I compared Edwards to all other candidates, and not just Clark.

I put option three in there so people who felt the way you do can express your opinion. I was hoping that would balance the "I told you so" implications.

I do want to talk about this and I was pretty sure there wasn't going to be the "two years from now, email me and say I'm giving you the chance to say I told you so" phenomenon.

[Tweed]

22. It was very immature of you to come out and say "I told you so"

The other thing you seem to be missing is that John Kerry picked John Edwards. The American people have not said anything as to whether or not they think Edwards is great. We won't know that either. If John Kerry gets elected it will be because he's John Kerry not because he has some political GQ guy on his ticket.

[AP]

31. Fair comment. And consistent.

I realize that I might be crossing a line. But I also think it would be just as strange for people who stridently claimed that things that are clearly happening right now would never happen ever.

[Manix]

14. Edwards rocks!!

[geek tragedy]

15. You were right.

Edwards is the perfect match. I can't wait to see him debate Cheneyhotep.

[ibegurpard]

17. For President?

No I don't think so. For Vice-President? I agree that Edwards and Kerry complement each other very well and this will set Edwards up to be the next nominee, depending upon how he comes across in office.

[AP]

18. It 's not so much that.

It's just that Edwards supporters made a lot of arguments about how people would respond to Edwards that seem to be in the process of being proven correct in the last few days. A lot of others disputed that people would respond like they have, or argued that there would be a better response to someone else.

I really think the last couple days have been a watershed in this campaign (those crowds in OH and FL were huge and they were happy). I really don't think any other candidate this year would have been able to do for the ticket what Edwards has done.

I agree that Edwards on top of the ticket might not have been able to do what Kerry-Edwards are doing.

But I do think there's sort of a medicine-sugar thing going on with them: a spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down. Whether the medicine was going to be the P or the VP isn't so much the point. The point is that we're getting the medicine that's going to cure American, and this ticket has figured out a way to deliver that medicine.

[chimpymustgo]

21. Thanks, AP! I'm curious to hear some of the opinions you are

trying to evoke.

There were times when I stopped posting on DU because some people here were so vicious towards Edwards. It completely baffled and saddened me. Now it is so encouraging - uplifting - to see other Democrats, huge crowds - John Kerry - reacting so positively to JRE, seeing what you and I saw so long ago.

I have a joy and hope about politics I haven't felt in a long time. Other Dems are feeling it too. This is truly is a dream team.

[PopSixSquish]

19. AP - I'm Feelin' Ya on This One

but how about we save anything like this for after November (if it's even necessary then)

:hug:

[AP]

20. These last 48 hours have been so overwhelmingly enthusiastic.

I just wanted to capture the moment.

I also have seen a few people who aren't on board, and I thought maybe some testimonials from option two might have swayed people clicking option 3. I'm pretty sure that there are more than 3 for option two, but I guess nobody wants to talk about it. (Maybe I shouldn't have personalized this post, but I really don't think I could have said, "so, weren't Edwards supporters right" without people thinking I was talking about me.) It also looks like people picking option three aren't as flexible as I thought they might be.

Oh well.

[chimpymustgo]

25. AP - pat yourself on the back, by golly.

You have been a passionate, tireless UNWAVERING defender and supporter of JRE. I even had a momentary flirtation with Clark, when it looked as though Edwards was going NOWHERE and Dean was unstoppable.

Many people feel passionately about their candidates. I remember Dean supporters saying, "If you don't like Dean - you just don't get it!" I have secretly felt that way as an Edwards supporter. Now, thousands of people are seeing it, and getting it. This is so exciting.

:hi:

Kerry/Edwards '04. And beyond...

[eaprez]

23. I was right before you were right!!!

[KittyWampus]

24. I'll Wait For Edwards To Live Up To The Hype

and hope he does.

Country really needs a change.

[oasis]

26. Your unwavering support is duly noted.

:toast:

[Bread and Circus]

27. AP, I know you want personal affirmation about Edwards but...

I don't know whether you were right or wrong.

We'll know whether he was useful only after the
election.

[chimpymustgo]

28. But what we know is that these crowds are electrified by this ticket.

Democrats everywhere are REJOICING!

[AP]

33. And it's not a stage managed rejoicing. There's REAL energy out there.

Something really interesting is going on right now.

[AP]

30. It's not so much that I want personal affirmation. I wasn't the only one..

...making the arguments about his appeal and about likely reactions.

It's only been about 72 hours, but I'm hearing lots of responses from the public at these events and on DU which basically echo all the arguments that were made here (and most eloquently articulated by PurityOfEssence, incidentally -- not by me).

I'm just kind of sort or prodding people who resisted those arguments to say at the very least that the last three days suggests that those arguments were good arguments even if they didn't agree with them before, and maybe reflecting on whether it was possible to pick up on this stuff earlier (or whether it even matters).

I realize that there's a hint of narcissism to this, but that's not my point. I posted somewhere else, "would I be a total ass to ask if it's to soon to say I told you so." I got one (positive) response to that. So I thought I'd risk sounding like an ass and posting this as an OP.

It's really, honestly just an attempt to talk about the last three days and to reflect on the arguments we had at DU about issues that seem to be coming to pass.

I think talking about it can help everyone sort of re-set and guage whatever tools they use to think about politics.

[PurityOfEssence]

29. Knock it off; you're a Johnny-come-lately and you know it

Tee-hee-hee...

[AP]

32. Hey, I just mentioned you in post 29!

You're not going to alert me for calling you out, are you?

[chimpymustgo]

34. AP and Purity. You two are the best. I know you are enjoying this too.

Every now and then, something wonderful happens. This feels good.

:toast:

[NNN0LHI]

35. Yea, you were right

But I knew that a long time ago.

Don

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. I always knew Edwards was good

but Kerry was simply more experienced and the right man to be at the helm. His pick of Edwards simply confirms both.

Your support for him has been admirable and educational to me and I am sure many others here.

[Toucano]

37. Not only were you always right...

but you always defended and advocated Edwards with total integrity.

Your dedication to sticking to rational, fact-based arguments contributed to my giving Edwards a closer examination. He aced that exam.

You've more than earned the right to crow a little in my book! I sure hope you get an invitation to the inauguration. John owes you one. ;)

[ShaneGR]

38. AP, both of us were right.... but I had no idea it would be so overwhelmin

We both wanted Edwards on the ticket so bad it hurt. But did you really think it would go THIS WELL? I knew Edwards would add a lot of energy but I had no idea that not only would his energy add to the ticket, but his energy seems to have worn off on Kerry. It's like Kerry has been forced to be, well, exciting by standing next to and speaking with Edwards.

Plus, I had no idea how much Edwards and those little kids would really remind me of what it must have been like for the JFK Camelot days.



I'm so fired up!

[AP]

39. What's amazing is that it started so quickly, I guess. I think I expected

that Kerry-Edwards could get this kind of enthusiasm with a bit of effort and after spending some money. But it has really caught fire extremely quickly.