It seems to me that if Bush grabs this election, then I think the

[harrison]

Democratic Party will be seen as obsolete. I think we will have to form a new party of Greens, Independents, Liberals, Libertarians and Paleoconservatives just get back to the constitutional basics. Differences will have to be put aside and these groups will have to band together and take the country back.

Robert Reich, Clinton's former labor secretary, was interviewed and he said that if Bush is reelected, the neoconservatives will do whatever the hell they want, which means doing in extremis what they are doing now. I imagine that if Bush grabs this election, we can expect an invasion of another middle east country.

I want to be a Republic, not an Empire. That is what the above groups have in common.

I realize that all of us are doing what we can, but I put nothing past this corrupt cabal that is in power.

[FloridaPat]

1. After the last two elections, I wonder if the Democratic party

is already obsolete. For years I've been wondering if they are around just to make We the People think we still live in a democracy. They haven't done much to combat the repubs. I'm not sure the Dems at the top realize how upset some of We the People really are at the situation.

[qazplm]

4. and I am not sure

if some of the "people" dont have unrealistic expectations.

Those on the left need to recognize that the majority of the country ISNT just waiting for the perfect far left candidate to come along.

The far right is winning because they compromise...they realize that they cant get a far right guy elected so they will settle for a guy like Bush who will give them some things if not everything that they want.

Meanwhile we have Nader getting 2-4% or more in some places because..."Kerry voted for the war so I cant support him"...

Well, that's all well and good but if Kerry were to be far left he would be done in the polls now by about 20 points and would have no chance to win (of course those on the far left would be happy because at least he wasnt "a whore" yadda yadda yadda).

If the far left would unite with more moderate democrats and get soldily behind Kerry, and yes to be honest, if the conservative democrats would do the same, then we would clearly win this thing by at least 3-5% points.

but instead of a nearly united Rep party, we have liberal Democrats saying Kerry isnt liberal enough so I aint voting for him, and conservative Democrats saying he's too liberal and I aint voting for him.

What's wrong with the Democratic party? We cant put internal differences aside and unite behind the eventual nominee nearly as well as the Republicans do.

You dont see them giving the libertarian or conservative candidates 3, 4 or 5% of the vote!!!

[JHBowden]

2. The *left* will be obsolete.

If one of the most liberal members of the Senate can't win, there will be a strong incentive (and argument) for people to get behind candidates like Lieberman and Bayh.

Did the Gore loss move the country to the left, as Greens predicted?

[Mechatanketra]

7. Huh?

Did I miss the part where Feingold was the candidate? I thought we were running the openly "Third Way" Kerry.

Or is this like how the ~34% of minority delegates at the Dem convention was being described as "almost half"?

Or maybe you were speaking Gingrichstani, and just meant to say "one of the most Massachussettsian Senators."

[Jade Fox]

3. Its an interesting idea, but also scary....

I go through moments where I think, "What the hell! Let Bush win, and
the shit will really hit the fan!". But I do think things would get very
scary in this country. Civil war might not just be something people use
hyperbolically, or as a metaphor.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

5. I think the Democrats will move further to the right, and maybe split.

Kerry and Edwards, for their pro-war vote, are pretty liberal, by their records, and Edwards was running an out-and-out populist campaign...and has continued his "two americas" populist rehtoric, at least so far, while Kerrys VP

So, if these guys lose you can bet there will be more of an argument for the Dems to move right, at least in their presidential candidates.

Then the leftys could bolt to some third party and become politically irrelevant.

I dont' think the Dems will be totally shut out. They are still strong in some states and congressional districts (look at Obama, for example). But they will form sort of a Japanese style "loyal opposition", with the GOP becoming the "ruling party".

People talk of facism, but I seem more of a Japanese-style democracy.

[Corby]

6. The Republicans have two bases ---

the anti-tax, anti-regulation crowd and the anti-abortion bring back the 1950s crowd. They've done an amazing job keeping these two groups pulling the same lever.

What are the Democratic bases? We're a pretty diverse bunch and not given to cohesion. There are more of us than them, but we are less easy to corral behind one unifying message.

If the Republicans win this time, will there be a profusion of third parties springing out of frustrated pockets of the Democratic party? I doubt it. What's the point? The Greens hold not one elected office on the national level.

If we lose this time, it will be grim, but not the end of the Democratic party. The system depends a second party and the pendulem eventually has to swing back -- sadly, it maybe after several wars and the ruination of the environment.