DEAN/NADER DEBATE -- Comments Thread (2PM ET CSPAN 3)

[Khephra]

It's scheduled to be an hour and a half long!

If you don't get CSPAN3, you can check it out online here:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3&S...

And it will probably be rerun later on in the day on one of the other CSPAN channels too.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


02:00 pm
1:30 (est.) LIVE
Debate
Political Debate
NPR (National Public Radio), Justice Talking
Howard Dean , D, Democratic Party
Ralph Nader , I, Independent


Debate
Political Debate
NPR (National Public Radio), Justice Talking
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)
ID: 182624 - 07/09/2004 - 1:30 - No Sale



Dean, Howard, Presidential Candidate (2003-04), D, Democratic Party
Nader, Ralph, Presidential Candidate, I, Independent

[Khephra]

1. 8 minutes until showtime!

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I admire both of these men very much, so this ought to be really

interesting.

[Khephra]

3. If nothing else

It's going to be VERY interesting. It could turn out bad or good (or both) for Dean or Nader. I'm actually as excited about this as I was the first debate of the season.

My money is on Dean though, however, I will admit to being very biased.

;-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. It's too bad, though, they are only debatig Nader's candidacy

cause I'd love to hear them talk about the issues that concern them.

[Khephra]

6. They've got to be talking about more than that today

I can't imagine an hour and a half on just that one topic.

[k in IA]

4. Thank you. Streaming C-span3 because my cable doesn't offer it.

[Khephra]

7. ON NOW

Both men are already at the podiums and are being introduced.

[Khephra]

9. YAY! NO OFFICIAL CLOCKS!!!

[k in IA]

8. CNN just promo'ed it as minutes away. Will they show it? Probably

a couple of minutes only.

[Khephra]

10. Dean's setting a good opening tone

So far it's about Bush and history, not Nader.

[Khephra]

12. Nader

Third parties are about freedom and taking the power away from corporations.

[Dudley_DUright]

11. Thanks for the heads up!

Dean: "When the house is on fire, it is not time to fix the furniture"

[trumad]

13. What...no rebuttals....

this is already panning out to be a stupid debate!

[Khephra]

15. I can't imagine that there won't be rebuttals eventually

NPR is presenting this as an informal debate, so it's bound to be a bit different than the Presidential debates.

[mzmolly]

14. Love that line!

:hi:

[trumad]

16. Jesus...

LET'S HEAR SOME REBUTTALS!

[Khephra]

Dean just addressed Nader directly

so I bet rebuttals will be starting to come up now.

[Khephra]

20. There's the first rebuttal

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Ralph is so right about these quotes from Howard

though, they were powerful back when he was campaigning.

[mzmolly]

17. I agree!

:shrug:

[trumad]

18. Here we go!!!

get him Howard!!!!!!

[DaveSZ]

21. Dean is kicking ass

Wow

[mzmolly]

19. Dean is rockin!

YEAAARRRGH!

[demnan]

22. Go Howard!!!

YEEAARRRGHHH!!!

[liberalnurse]

27. Nader playing the poor victim

but Dean won't let it fly....called him on using repug support!

[Endangered Specie]

23. Oh how I miss Dean in the public light...

this is sweet and sour at the same time :)

[ProfessorPlum]

25. Day-um!

Dean is ripping him a new Ralph-hole!

Now Ralph is accusing him of flip-flopping.

Dean: "disingenuous nonsense!!"" Boo-yaa!

[Khephra]

26. It's already starting to get hot!

And just think, we have an hour and twenty minutes left.

:evilgrin:

[Dickie Flatt]

Walking all over the moderator

My god. These two are brutal.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. Hooray for touching on the election reform issues!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. And howard is right, we'll have a better chance for getting those reforms

under Kerry, which is why I am voting for him.

[K-W]

29. Nader needs to step aside and support Dean.

He doesnt understand the magnitude of the conservative threat to this country.

[Endangered Specie]

30. Fundamental Electoral Change

amen Dean.

[Khephra]

32. Nader says he'd abolish the Electoral College

But I have to wonder HOW?

IF Nader got in somehow, he'd still have no support in either the House or Senate. Saying he'd abolish it is one thing, doing it in reality is another.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. We have proportional voting in the EC here in Maine. Should have that

nationwide, so that the EC votes reflect the popular vote.

[Khephra]

36. I don't disagree

But without Senate/House backing (which Nader wouldn't have), he stands no chance in changing it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. So do it state-by-state. That's how most of our election reform will come

at the municipal and state level.

[Khephra]

82. Once again, I don't disagree

[dsc]

84. No you don't

What you do have is a system which awards them by Congressional district. Thus if I win district 1 but lose both district 2 and the total vote I still get one vote. But if I get 49% in both district 1 and district 2 I still get nothing.

[Khephra]

34. Nader's telling people to go to his website to look up his stance

on gay rights.

Sorry Ralph, but you're supposed to give your postion on issues during a debate. Not mentioning specifics and telling people to look elsewhere for the info isn't the way you debate.

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Glad to be hearing from John Anderson

[Endangered Specie]

37. Dean calls the Democratic debates "dull"

lol

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. Heehee, Dean slams david jones

[Khephra]

42. Nader knew the name too

It looks like Nader and Dean agree on at least him.

;-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. And score one for the moderator on the topic of open debates. *lol*

[Tweed]

39. Never thought I'd say this, but I would prefer Dean on the ticket

over Edwards. Dean is an attack dog. Edwards is too clean.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. I wanted a Dennis/Howard ticket or vice versa

[WI_DEM]

56. I feel the same way

[NashVegas]

80. I Don't Think You Can Compare This Example to a VP Debate

There's a lot less riding on this one. The newspapers and tv pundits aren't going to be under pressure to make headlines of it, nor will they have any need to castigate one or the other debator to display their political acumen.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. who is the woman moderating this

she seems to be debating Dean herself. Does he really need to be double teamed?
First she cuts Dean off and then Nader starts speaking and Dean never got to finish his sentence much less his answer.

[mzmolly]

44. That is what I'm thinking. I am not tuning in to listen to her!

:shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

49. Brokaw did the same thing in the primary debates

I wanted to reach into the TV and smack him.

The audience seems to be full of Naderites too.

[mzmolly]

63. Yes it does.

But Dean is doing beautifully in spite.

[cjbuchanan]

45. I noticed that too

She is not unbiased.

[Khephra]

46. Nader: "Republicans are people too."

Dean: "Right-wingers might not be."

ROTFLMAO!

[unfrigginreal]

LOL

That was great!

[Endangered Specie]

48. rats, you beat me

[Forkboy]

59. *SNARF*

Score one for the good doctor :)

[Endangered Specie]

47. "Republicans are human too" - Nader...

"Not some of the right wingers" - Dean

[DaveSZ]

53. Much of what Nader is saying is true though

I wish we had a parliamentary system.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Yep, so do I Dave, so do I. Prop rep in the House at the very least.

[ProfessorPlum]

50. Nader just referred to the "Democrat" party

I hate that.

He also seems to think that the Democrats should unilaterally disarm against the Republicans. Dumb.

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. Oh, here we go. The myth that Greens only run at higher levels but

if you look at this page you'll see that it is so untrue.

http://greens.org/elections/

[chiburb]

79. Here's a better example, should be REQUIRED reading on DU...

As posted by Davsand in the forum linked at the bottom

Ya know what? I am about as left as it gets. Many of the Dems here ARE left of the mainstream as far as Dems go. That is FINE in the urban areas--works for the voters, and left leaning candidates do fine. Those Greens could win IF they play the game and take advantage of the party machine by running in primaries. That, however, is NOT what they have chosen to do.

This is not some exercise in political science in some U of IL classroom--this is real life. These elections impact on thousands of people's lives, and clinging to the dream of creating a new party is a nice ideal, but simply not feasible for now. What they are doing now is putting several important elements of county government at risk, nothing more.

IF it means risking that the GOP wins control of that board back again because a handful of Greens wants to try and prove a point, then, yeah, I will fight tooth and nail to keep illegal candidates from going on that ballot and draining votes off viable Dem candidates.

I have fought for nifty little ideals like protection for the GLBT workers in the county--THAT will be gone if the GOP regains control of that board.

You can kiss the county public health dept goodbye as well--the GOP HATES that idea--and in doing that you will place the rural residents in a situation where they are without important services. You have NO idea of how awful the county restaurants were before they began to inspect them regularly...

Along with that, you can kiss responsible bidder ordinances farewell, along with any real attempt to help minority contractors gain a foothold.

Workers will not have contraceptive coverage, possibly NO coverage for health care. THAT is another battle that has been hard won, along with another ideal we have been working toward which is coverage for same gender partners of workers. (Trust me, you do NOT want to hear about the conversation I had with one of the GOPiglets on that board who felt it was "just ridiculous" for the county insurance to pay for women's birth control pills...)

Frankly, I resent being treated the way I have been here. Not many of you live here, I bet. You want to call it my true colors, but I bet that not ONE of you can tell me the voter demographics in those ares where the Greens are trying to prove a point. Let me clue you in: If they pull too many votes off the Dems you can bet that the GOP WILL regain control of that board.

Call me a Dem party animal, call me narrow minded, call me any damn thing you want, but I'll fight you to the mat to protect the ideals we have accomplished and continue to work toward. This is high stakes stuff for those of us who live here, and the poly sci experiments need to be conducted someplace else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=150x657#699

[Endangered Specie]

52. Nader did make a good point...

our winner take all system you can get 49% of the vote and get nothing... unlike other countries where you get 10% vote you get 10% power in congress/parliment. (paraphrase)

[GreenPartyVoter]

60. Yep, we need proportional representation. Take a look

at the blurb on that on my website and see who is representing us right now.

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. Nader is right on the Palestinian sovereignty issue.

[Khephra]

55. Dean: "Im not convnced that Kerry is running to the right of Bush...

That would be hard to do."

ROTFLMAO Again!

[cjbuchanan]

57. Dean nails Nader on Edwards

If Nader was so against the war, why did he support Edwards for VP.

[AP]

85. I liked Nader's response: because Edwards is great on civil justice issues

and believes that individuals should have access to the courts. I believe he also said something about corporate responsibility in there too.

[cjbuchanan]

86. He also said that Dean wasn't even in the running so he could not support

him.

So Nader is saying that because Dean didn't really stand a chance of getting the VP nomination, he did not support him. Instead he went with someone who is bad on some issues but okay on others. Um, isn't that what he hates about the Dem party?

[justjones]

58. Dean is an insurgent? Now he's a detergent? Is Nader Sharpton in disguise?

[Khephra]

61. Has Nader said anything negative about the Republicans yet?

If so I missed it.

[Endangered Specie]

66. I didnt catch any anti-R from nader

makes me suspicious... hes beating democrats but calling republicans "human"

[cal04]

62. Go Dean

We need to beat this guy

[Cheswick2.0]

64. I wish Nader would stop ranting

he makes some good points but he makes it obvious that he hates democrats more than anything else. He could help reform it but he chooses to punish us all instead.

[justjones]

67. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Go Dean! n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

68. Howard, cite a strong Dem from more recent times.

[ProfessorPlum]

69. Did you hear Dean talk about the people who will suffer if

Bush is re-elected? You can hear the empathy in his voice. Then he very graciously asked Ralph to join the team . . . followed by an incoherent rant by Ralph about how the Dems are as bad as the GOP.

Sit on it, Ralph.

[GreenPartyVoter]

70. ARGH! I lost the stream from c-span!!

[Cheswick2.0]

71. you are a fucking hair shirt Ralph....

unfortunately you are a bitter semi insane one.

[Khephra]

I'm biased towards Dean, so I want a check on my opinion

Is it just me or is Dean more issue based whereas Nader keeps on bringing up Dean's past campaigning?

[mzmolly]

74. Yes, Nader is all over the place.

I am biased as well however. ;)

[Endangered Specie]

72. Dean to Nader "Lighten Up"

go Dean go!

[GreenPartyVoter]

73. Oh, man. YES there are major difference in the 9 dems who ran.

[Khephra]

75. SECOND THREAD STARTING

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1957815

[unfrigginreal]

76. ROFLMAO!

Worst campaign photo- Dean "I'm not sure but I'm sure if you look at the NY Times you'll find one"

[Endangered Specie]

77. Wow Nader thinks hell get a "fair" chance...

so long as he gets on the ballot in 270 electoral votes worth of state... ROFL... where are the guys in white robes taking him away?

[Cheneys_former_heart]

81. So Nader is determined to destroy the Democratic party

Instead of helping to get Bush out. He wants to be the "hairshirt" unless the party is run the way he wants. I'm sorry Dean did this debate, he gave Nader more attention than he deserves.

[ibegurpard]

83. I think you're wrong (about this debate being a bad idea)

I think the Democratic Party did themselves a tremendous disservice by trying to ignore Nader in 2000. I'm not watching it but if everyone here is correct he is not making a convincing case for himself at all. Not engaging him in 2000 gave him and others who were disenchanted with the Democratic Party another weapon to use against them.

[mdmc]

87. THe dems ran an awful race in 2000

We are better now.

I would love a dem part that I can be proud of - I would also like an electable dem party.

I want it all.

[LeftWingArmy]

88. are they going to replay it?

damn!