The worst day ever on DU? (Please don't let Bush get away with it)

[Nordic65]

I'm so disappointed. Today the fireworks were lit, but very few cared. I know it's summer, it's Friday and everyone has other priorities to tend to, but WTF!

Here we are, fighting to get rid of the worst nightmare ever to hit US politics and when the shit finally truly hits the fan the reaction is muted? It's nothing short of embarrassing to see George W. Bush taking the worst body-blow of his entire administration and the DU goes AWOL. All I see is a few scattered threads that goes nowhere.

Ladies and Gents, The Senate Select Intelligence Committee today released a bipartisan report that unequivocally stated that The United States of America, in 2003, unleashed a unprovoked war;

- against a sovereign nation
- killing 10 000 civilian
- killing 1000 coalition soldiers
- killing countless enemy soldiers
- wounding countless others
- Costing more than 150 billion dollars
- tarnishing the reputation of the US around the globe
- that is arguably counterproductive in the war against Terror
- and, as it now turns out, was all based on pure speculation. Not on hard facts.

As the President of The United States of America you cannot possibly make a bigger mistake. It doesn't matter that your information was bogus. It came from your own trusted CIA, a part of your administration, their action is your responsibility. Short of treason on the part of Tenet and the rest of the CIA, there is no escape.

The President made a bad call, based on bad information and who is politically responsible? A fucking analyst at Langley or George W. Bush?

Fellow DU'ers, please think about it. It just doesn't get any bigger than this!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Links?

I know, I'm Lazy.

[Dookus]

2. What do you want?

more threads?

Nothing in the report is new information. It's just more confirmation of what we've known for a very long time. What more is there to say?

[LittleApple81]

4. But I must say, the way it was presented by TWEETY of all people

was pretty damning. I couldn't believe it.
And the NewsHour cverage was also good.

[Nordic65]

10. Not more treads, but some acknowledgment...

of what actually happened today.

Never-mind the GOP-spin, Dimson just lost everything.

[Poiuyt]

3. Bush adm. are experts at shifting the blame

Poor innocent George wouldn't have started a war if it weren't for those incompetent spies at the CIA. Bush had no choice, you see.

[Beaverhausen]

5. WE have outrage fatigue

we have for a long time.

As for me I'm doing what I can to get Kerry elected. That's really all I can do.

[Emboldened Chimp]

17. This is no time for fatigue!

[liberalmuse]

22. Thank you!

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4027&n=3

I'm ready to 'splode from sheer outrage.

[Cleita]

6. This is really damning news for the administration.

I for one just sat down on my computer so it takes me awhile to get some steam and I have to read more. I hope others do weigh in.

[Selwynn]

21. It's not damning to the administration at all.

It is however, just another tool of the administration to deflect attention and blame.

[Maccagirl]

7. I hear what you're saying

and I agree 100%. I personally am so accustomed to * taking body blows and walking away that the lack of outrage is expected. Democracy, true citizenship and freedom itself are wounded animals. I look around and shake my head in shame and disgust.

I want to add that my disgust is NOT with fellow DUers-I've just read the replies, and they all have the same theme. We are keeping our eyes on the ball. I blame the media more that anyone. They are the true enablers.

[Selwynn]

8. Umm well, that's because the report was a total joke.

Blaming the entire thing on the CIA and having the chairman of the committed stand up and state publically "there was no political pressure brought to be bear on the intelligence community by the white house" doesn't exactly become our smoking gun.

I think quite a few of us interpret the report as a right wing political tool - an attempt to deflect criticism on to the CIA and mute criticism where it really belongs: on the Bush White house that demanded the intelligence community manufacture the evidience it wanted.

As much as you might want to wish that "it doesn't matter if your information was bogus" it totally does in the public eye. If the CIA is blamed and the White House is made out to be an innocent duped party, that's what the public will thing as well. This report is little more than a way to deflect criticism and attention from the white house. It should be harshy attack, not celebrated.

You are interpreting things as a person of a partisan perspective who wants to see Bush gone. Of course you're going to see EVERY failure anywhere in government as Bush's failure. But that's now how this is going to play. This is already being used as an scapegoat report to say that poor Bush was innocent and its the evil CIA i.e. the resigning Tenant (who I believe resigned on que in aide of the white house, not opposition to it, so that Tenet would be the martyr) who is really to blame.

So you'll excuse me if I'm not running around jumping for joy.

"The President made a bad call, based on bad information and who is politically responsible? A fucking analyst at Langley or George W. Bush?"

The answer to your question, according to this report, and in the public eye is "a fucking analyst at Langley."

[G_j]

15. my feelings also

Before this criminal war I remember posting a story here (and forwarding it to Congress people and media) where CIA people publicly complained that they were being pressured by Cheney and others to cook the books on Iraq.
Today's report is bogus.

[Selwynn]

19. Should be everyone's feelings, and the fact that its not scares me.

We gotta be sharper than this.

[G_j]

24. I mean

there is the 'bright side' in that most of us would never have imagined anyone admitting that the war was waged on false pretenses.

What we don't need are a series of Warren Commission-like smoke screens! (the 9-11 Commission also comes to mind)

[Generator]

30. Let me tell something our media doesn't tell you about this report

From my senator, Ron Wyden and his letter in response to my criticism of the Iraq war intelligence and other travesties.
***

On February 2nd, President Bush announced that he had decided to support and independent investigation into prewar intelligence on Iraq.

Unfortunately, the President not only hand picked the members of the commission to investigate his own Adminstration, he also explicity prohibited his commission from looking at how his Administration used intelligence in the build-up to the war.

He also has denied the commission the ability to issues subpoenas, a basic tool required by any legitmate investigation. These issues make it plain that a comprehensive, genuinely independent inquiry is still needed.
****
DID Fucking CNN mention that?

[Selwynn]

46. That's exactly my point.

[TrogL]

9. We already know what's going to happen

Dubya's administration will blame the CIA.

Case closed.

[Nordic65]

23. So what?

The CIA is still a part of the administration. They are in fact a BIG part of it when it comes to fighting terrorism.

And, unless the President has absolutely no responsibility for any action taken by the US government regarding the war in Iraq, he's toast.

Tenet, Rice, Powell, Rumsfield, Wolfowitch and the rest of the gang all serve "at the pleasure of the President". They are by definition an extension of his will.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword...

[Maestro]

11. Yes, but the CIA is taking the fall.

In fact, in a rally in Penn. Bush stated that he was glad the report came out and the faults are no known. Now he is setting himself up to say, "Look, with the info I had, I had to go to war to stop nuclear escalation," or something to that effect.

Then what really gets my goat is that the report on how Bushco used that info will not be out until after Nov. :mad:

[merh]

18. Sorry, * may think he can dodge this and pass the buck ....

I see it as fueling the simmering fire of contempt the intelligence agencies have for weedboy and his rethugs. It is all brewing and soon enough, the lid will come flying off.

[LibertyorDeath]

12. bipartisan well that's good news but what now

I think the majority of people here knew the the Invasion

of Iraq was Shit from day one.

Good to see their catching up & it's bipartisan

but so what are the ramifications of this.

It's not like the Corp News Media are gonna pick it up

& start hammering this POS of a pResident with it.

I don't mean to seem antagonistic but what are the consequences of this.

I think this is major( bipartisan report ) are the Repubs breaking ranks.?

[onecitizen]

13. But but but.........

it ISN'T his fault. According to the report. It was the fault of the CIA. Now you know those who support bush are popping their Champaign bottles tonight. The bad stuff(if in fact they found any)won't be released till after the election.

[zeemike]

14. You are right

But it is not our fault that we do not jump all over this because it is like a boxing match and we have him on the ropes, and we let up because we figure he will never be able to come back from this.
We are human unlike the Neo-Cons who would kick you when you were down and feel giddy about it.
But you are right to point out that we should be aware of the rope-a -dope.

[warrior1]

20. Let me get this straight.

The CIA was gunho to go get Saddam because of 9/11 and WMD. Yet, with the combine years of knowledge and experience, they were not able to stop 9/11 or prove that the WMD existed. And they are going to lay down and except 100 percent blame for a war they made gw wage on a unarmed country with no ties to osama.


Now, wouldn't we start hearing bush/cheney etc, stop talking about Iraq/911 ties and focus on why they were given bad info...


Sorry but that dog don't bark.

[fearnobush]

16. Problem is that, they are blaming the CIA and no even mentioning the

existence of Chaney and Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans. Not one media whore is willing to even mention Air Force Col. Karen Kwaitkowski's name, let alone her scathing account of the O.S.P. cooking the intel for war. The Senate says, there is a Part II of the report due... you guessed it, after the election.

I'm sorry but we have lost any recognition as a nation of law. We are not just the butt joke of the world for failure of intel. Worse, we are now viewed as a corrupt and ruthless nation for failing to allow justice to be served.

May God forgive us.

[Samantha]

41. Exactly -- I have been disgusted about the failure to mention

The Office of Special Plans. Who has mentioned that this body, off the government payroll so it cannot be controlled by Congress, was fed intelligence which it sifted through to locate bits which would buttress the impression we were justified to launch this Bush* war. Finally, tonight Katrina (can't spell her last name) from The Nation magazine brought it up on Hardball.

I am not outraged and speaking out because I am totally disgusted at how this is still being spun to the public. Once again, Bush* didn't know. Who has mentioned the first cabinet meeting in January 2001 when Bush* turned to Rice and asked his national security advisor what was on the table for discussion. As if orchestrated (and rather than discussing terrorism) she spoke of the threat the Iraqi government was presenting. This was reported in Paul O'Neill's book, the Price of Loyalty. That's the Republican Paul O'Neill, former Bush* Secretary of the Treasury (fired of course for using foul language in the White House -- but not by Cheney).

And the delay of the report on part 2 (the Bush* culpability) until after the election is simply appalling. How could the Democrats ever have agreed to this?

Someone with whom I am very close works in this intelligence community. He's a huge Bush* proponent. I told him at the start of the war Bush* would blame the CIA for any resulting problems. He said that would be a huge mistake. Not only has he been a big Bush* fan, he also tremendously admires Tenet. I have wondered so often lately what he is thinking now, but I do not ask. Nor would he say if I did.

[ParanoidPat]

25. Well where have YOU been for the last 3 1/2 years?

There is absolutely NOTHING in that report that everyone who has been here didn't know about. Glad you finally found us. :)

[Nordic65]

31. I know that, we all know that

But having the Senate Select Intelligence Committee saying the same thing is another matter.

As of today, the facts can now longer be ignored by neither the Administration nor the media (in a perfect world that is...)

[Kipepeo]

39. But they think we all forgot

Thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1959737

The sad thing is, a lot of people probably *have* forgotten...or never were aware.

People who don't actively seek out what is happening in the world everyday are in the dark if all they rely on is the evening news. And most people probably don't even rely on that...just on what their coworker says his brother heard Rush Limbaugh read off of Newsmax.

My mom went to see Fahrenheit 9/11 and it was *all* news to her. She had no idea most of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. She thought they were all from Iraq. She thought Saddam and Osama had a connection. She had no idea Bush had tried to prevent an investigation into 9/11. She had no idea that planes picked up a group of Saudi's, including bin laden family members, and flew them out of the country. When I've tried to talk about stuff like that with her in the past she says, "that's your opinion though."

I think in her way of looking at things, if those things were true, then there is no way she could avoid knowing it...the media would be reporting on it nonstop. She would turn on her TV and it would be on, instead of the latest update on the Michael Jackson case, or a special hour-long report on "How safe are you *really* in your hotel room?"

[Sterling]

26. The worst day on DU was the Night of the Long Knives that occured

right after the IWR vote. It was disgusting.

[Cyrano]

27. The CIA has spent the last half century overthrowing governments

that weren't to the liking of whatever administration was in power at the time.

And right now, their sights are set on overthrowing the Bush administration. They hate his guts for a variety of reasons, but Valerie Plame was the final straw.

Where do you think all of those "secret" memos concerning torture are coming from? Two places. The CIA and the Pentagon. The in-place bureaucracy can't wait until this administration is history. They really really do care about this country and they are doing everything they can to bury BushCo.

[Hoping4Change]

28. There is just a piling on of outrageous acts by these scum

not to mention the mind-numbing disbelief that slimebutt still has supporters and the mediawhores willingness to be toilet bowls into which the admin deposits its sh*t. Its hard to react to what appears to be an endless episode of the Twilight Zone. The situation is so bad it seems unreal at times.

(There is a stellar piece of good news today and that is the 4 fox employees who will be revealing memos Murduch sends out to control news reporting.)

[opihimoimoi]

29. This kinda awakening comes in small doses...the Misled Sheep are only now

absorbing their loss of face and trying to find a way out...they hating to eat Crow.

Now, its inescapeable...the Crow must be eaten...The Pubs have gambled on a weak hand and lost... the Bluff no longer works.

Bush is Toast. he has nothing to show for his 3 years except 1.3 more trillion in debt and a war that cost 166 Billion plus 1000 lives.

He cannot sell the shit he once did... the smell is overpowering...

[wishlist]

32. Because White House complicity stuff won't come out until after 11/2-

After saying that the report blames the CIA and found no political pressure to provide bad info, they made it clear that the part of the investigation involving White House complicity won't come out until after the election.

CIA is the scapegoat and Bush is protected. Plus on ABC news tonight, several prominent Dems including Hillary and Daschle and Schumer allegedly said they would still have voted for the war resolution even if they had known there were no WMD or Al Queda/Iraq links. Jay Rockefeller at least was very firm in his belief that a majority of Senators would not have voted for the resolution, including himself.

[kentuck]

33. I hear you but it's just so much to digest....

:) It's like eating an 18 lb turkey with 5 lbs of yams...

[Nordic65]

34. Well, yes...

it's one very heavy meal today, but using this report (ignoring the GOP-spin) as a reference point in the future, has the potential to make any argument that much easier to digest.

And remember, this report was based on a unanimous decision in a republican controlled committee. It's almost like a guilty verdict...

[proud patriot]

35. Chris Matthews actually asks if it was a war crime if there are no WMD's

Watch the Hardball repeat if you missed it

[Hell Hath No Fury]

36. Why are we not "over the moon" about this?

Cause Bush has been "toast", what?, old-timers help me out here, three or four hundred times on this board. THAT'S why.

Enron and the Cheney Energy task force
Richard Clark
The WMD lies uncovered BEFORE the invasion
The Saddam lies uncovered BEFORE the invasion
Abu Ghraib
His meltdowns during a multitude of press conferences

I could go on and on and on...damn, if I hade a dollar for every time I saw a posting titled "Bush is TOAST!" on DU, I'd be sitting in Hawaii right now.

Sorry, but I won't get excited until I see John Kerry's hand on a Bible being sworn in as President, cause this fucking administration is like every cheesy horror film where you thought the bad guy was dead until his hand shoots out of the shadows and grabs the heroine, scaring the shit out of you.

[donhakman]

37. because it does get bigger than this

The plan is to attack Syria and Iraq next.
miniature nuclear weapons are currently the escalated weapon of choice in the administration.

[Kool Kitty]

43. Miniature nuclear weapons? OMFG.

I would think that Israel and the other surrounding nations would have LOADS to say about that. If they start using them, you can really kiss your ass good-bye. That would bring everyone, even the fence-sitters, into the act.

[KoKo]

38. There were posts but not so many replied to them. Things go by very fast

on DU...I was sorry there wasn't a big discussion, too. But that seems to be the way it is these days. Most of us figure stuff goes nowhere, because the media doesn't report accurately and we get shot down in the courts. Doesn't mean the spunk isn't still here..it's just that it has to take a break and "regroup" to get the energy back...:shrug:

[MallRat]

40. Wrong. It gets MUCH, MUCH BIGGER if Bush DOCTORED the intel.

We're still hammering away, Nordic. The Bush administration would love nothing more than for the debate to focus on whether or not bogus intelligence SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BELIEVED. It would devolve into he said-she said. That debate is a non-winner.

But if we finally get a smoking gun that shows that the White House pressured the CIA to skew their intelligence, or hard evidence that the White House doctored intelligence to justify the war, THE ELECTION IS OVER.

We haven't heard the end of this. Talkingpointsmemo.com says there's a big story brewing about the Niger yellowcake forgeries. If he's right, then today's Senate report is going to be the least of the Administration's worries.

-MR

[anarchy1999]

42. Wouldn't it be lovely if "Bush" stood up and fired everyone responsible?

The man has a chance at leadership, it is all he has to do. TAKE BACK CONTROL. Is Bush, Jr. up for it, sadly for us all, he is not. He has this one chance and he is going to fail, thanks to Dad. Thanks GHWB!! I have never hated you more in my life.

[alarcojon]

44. We need to keep the focus on

Bush/Cheney's pushing of the Saddam/911 link. The CIA was always clear that no such link existed. Or have they tried to rewrite history on that one too?

[gauguin57]

45. pnac pnac pnac

pnac pnac pnac!