Anyone have any evidence that Osama did 9/11?

[Fusions_Minion]

Please post here, I'd love to see it.

[NMDemDist2]

1. welcome to DU Fusions_Minions

and no I don't have any links

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

33. Yes, welcome to DU

:hi: and I don't have any links, sorry

[DenverDem]

2. No shit.

Any Mossad agents monitoring, tonight?

They're the ones with the "evidence".

[JohnLocke]

22. LOL!

:eyes:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Concordance]

47. Heh...

Thats all you could muster? My post count? Pathetic. There is still a matter of a five inch long ad in your sig (that you have removed over night), that comes from an obvious hate site.

For people reading this, here is the site in question http://www.factsandlogic.org

A memorable quote from that website in your sig.

"the Palestinian Arabs were in Berlin hatching plans with Adolf Hitler for world conquest and how to kill all the Jews"

[JohnLocke]

51. I removed it becasue it was too big.

And it is not a hate site.

[Concordance]

55. It's a hate site.

And the fact that you put a five inch ad of theirs in your sig is is quite telling.

[JohnLocke]

73. Right...

[Concordance]

88. Yup, right.

You offering any information to prove it otherwise? Exactly! I didn't think so.

[Ozonesafe]

37. Didn't he take the credit for it?

[Bandit]

43. You have some link for when he did such a thing

I remember a movie of a really fat person supposed to be Bin Laden saying he was happy it occured. I don't remember anything that said he planned and executed the attacks.

[Ozonesafe]

46. Sorry...no link

It was a few years ago but I am pretty sure he came out and took the credit....I could be wrong......why the interest...do you have another theory....do you think that maybe Bush did it...

[Bandit]

78. I don't know who did it except for those that died doing the deed

I have never seen any evidence of any sort from anywhere that is conclusive. As far as I know nineteen disgruntled people murdered over two thousand people in a spectacular manner. If there is evidence of others being involved I would like to see it.

[frylock]

3. well there's hearsay and conjecture..

and those are KINDS of evidence. </lionelhutz>

[mmonk]

4. I think maybe he had some connection to it.

He says he did. But he may be an opportunist as well. It doesn't matter. Trying to conquer the middle east won't end terrorism. It will insure a longer life for terrorism directed against us.

[Fusions_Minion]

5. I'll say this

Siebel is hottt!

[mmonk]

8. yes she is

[Egalitarian]

6. Isn't there some debate

about whether HE ADMITTED to 9/11

Some say he was not referring to 9/11, while others contend it was not really him in the video? I could be off target here, just what I recall. Lord knows?

[mmonk]

9. I believe he

or the leader of the Egyptian Jihad (the other leader of al Queda) helped, funded, encouraged or helped train the perpetrators in some manner. Directly planned, I don't really know.

[frylock]

10. pakastani isi

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. See my post #13...photos for comparative purposes.

[WoodrowFan]

21. in the same way

there is "debate" over whether evolution exists or "debate" whether the earth is flat or not. i.e. only by the seriously delusional.

bye bye

[Fusions_Minion]

23. Hey Woodrow

How's Colonel House doing?

[alphafemale]

24. Hand gesture in said video

Some conjecture he was referring to the "hair gel" scene in "Something about Mary." :silly:

Seriously though, I'd say it's 99.9% likely he was involved. The multiple attacks intended to take out emergency responders is a fingerprint of his.

Right-wing terroists have also picked up on this though, and I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think that these freaks could be recruited to create havoc here.

Beyond that theories about "who was responsible" start climbing the crazy tree. We're all stocked up on nutz here, thanx.

[Ms. Clio]

29. "multiple attacks intended to take out emergency responders"

I had not heard that was a "signature" of Bin Laden.

It is an Israeli tactic, though. And it was also recently used in Fallujah, by the U.S.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. When Did The Israeli's Use Multiple Attacks To Take Out Emergency

Responders?


I know terrorists use secondary explosions to kill or maim those who come to help folks hurt by the first explosion...


It's a nasty tactic...

[Ms. Clio]

76. Many responders and witnesses have reported IDF attacks

on Palestinian ambulances and emergency personnel.

Recent reports from Iraq indicate similar attacks on Iraqi emergency responders.

It's a nasty tactic, anywhere it's used.

[Bush was AWOL]

7. Al-Queda will take credit

for any and all terrorism that takes place if they're allowed to. So............

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. No, Osama originally denied that he had any involvement, and....

...I remember thinking at the time that I thought he was taking a very strange stance for a guy that was allegely out to bury America.

And then a very strange video came out, supposedly of Bin Laden taking credit for 911. But take a look at the photos on the link below, and compare them with stills on the same page of the man purported to be Osama Bin Laden in the so-called "confession" video.

<http://www.mbpolitics.com/obl/>

Not the same man, is he?

[Ozonesafe]

50. Maybe Bush did do it then.....

Lets get him.....what can I do...

[Beam Me Up]

11. Yeah, sure:

Bush said Osama did it.
So did Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld. So did the FBI, the CIA, the DIA, the NSA. Well, I think the DIA, maybe not.

Didn't what's his name, the British guy, did he say Osama did it?

The news media reported it as a fact.

I mean, given all THOSE folks saying it is true, how could you DOUBT it?

It must be TRUE, right?

Whoever controls your perception of reality, controls you.

[donhakman]

12. I have a photo

[Fusions_Minion]

16. The pink panther is in on this too.

Inspector ashcroft, where are the security camera tapes showing the hijackers boarding the planes??

[King_Crimson]

14. Yeah...

the Fascist vampires in Washington said they did it. Nothing else needed...now move along!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. Well, this article goes in the opposite direction....from the FBI....

Robert S. Mueller, III, Director, FBI
Commonwealth Club of California
San Francisco, CA
April 19, 2002
<http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm>

Excerpt:

"The plans were hatched and financed overseas, beginning as long as five years ago. Each of the hijackers came from abroad: fifteen from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, and one each from Lebanon and Egypt. All 19 entered our country legally, and only three had overstayed the legal limits of their visas on the day of the attacks.

While here, the hijackers did all they could to stay below our radar. They contacted no known terrorist sympathizers. They committed no egregious crimes. They dressed and acted like Americans, shopping and eating at places like Wal-Mart and Pizza Hut, blending into the woodwork all the while. When four got speeding tickets in the days leading up to September 11th, they remained calm and aroused no suspicion. Since none were known terrorists, law enforcement had no reason to question or detain them.

The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot. The hijackers had no computers, no laptops, no storage media of any kind. They used hundreds of different pay phones and cell phones, often with prepaid calling cards that are extremely difficult to trace. And they made sure that all the money sent to them to fund their attacks was wired in small amounts to avoid detection."

[Fusions_Minion]

18. No paper trail.. well maybe a phony one.

The FBI acknowledged yesterday that some of the terrorists involved in the attacks last week were using false identities, as it emerged that at least two men had been wrongly implicated.
After analysis of the passenger lists of the four hijacked flights and other immigration documents, investigators identified Salem Al-Hazmi and Abdulaziz Al-Omari as two of the terrorists.
The real Salem Al-Hazmi, however, is alive and indignant in Saudi Arabia, and not one of the people who perished in the American Airlines flight that crashed on the Pentagon. He works at a government-owned petroleum and chemical plant in the city of Yanbu.
He said yesterday he had not left Saudi Arabia for two years, but that his passport had been stolen by a pickpocket in Cairo three years ago.

Abdulaziz Al-Omari has also come forward to say he was not on the flight from Boston that crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Centre.

An electrical engineer who works in Saudi Arabia, Mr Al-Omari said he was a student in Denver during the mid-1990s, and that his passport and other papers were stolen in a burglary in the US five years ago.
He was given a special pass by the Saudi embassy so he could return home.

"The name is my name and the birth date is the same as mine," he told Asharq al-Aswat, a London-based Arabic newspaper. "But I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Centre in New York."

Both men have offered to fly to the US to prove their innocence.

A Saudi embassy official in Washington warned yesterday that many more terror suspects might have been using false identities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,601550,00.html

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. And, at least five attended U. S. military schools, which strongly...

...indicates that those individuals were ALREADY OFFICERS in their respective country's military. Here's a couple of good articles for you written by an individual that has focused 100% on the hijackers:

Did Terrorist Pilots Train at U.S. Military Schools?
<http://www.madcowprod.com/issue05.html>

Excerpt:

"In addition to having been inducted into the U.S. flight training program by two Dutch-owned flight schools in Venice, Florida, as many as six of the terrorists, including ringleader Mohammed Atta, also received training at U.S. military facilities, according to a flurry of stories between Sept 15 and 17 in the Washington Post, Newsweek, and Knight Ridder newspapers.

The story had an extremely short life.

Newsweek reported that 'U.S. military sources have given the FBI information that suggests five of the alleged hijackers of the planes used in Tuesday's terror attacks received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s.'

Knight Ridder’s news account was more specific. It said Mohamed Atta had attended International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Ala. In addition, Abdulaziz Alomari had attended Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force base in Texas, they reported, and Saeed Alghamdi had been to the Defense Language Institute in Monterrey, California."

===============================================

Pentagon Lied: Terrorists Trained at U. S. Bases
<http://www.madcowprod.com/issue06.html>

Excerpt:

"EXCLUSIVE— Despite earlier denials, terrorists in the Sept. 11 attacks received training at secure U.S. military bases, a Defense Department spokesman admitted in an interview Friday.

Three days after the WTC disaster, Newsweek, the Washington Post and the Knight Ridder newspapers reported claims that five of the terrorist hijackers in the Sept 11 attacks received training at secure U.S. military installations during the 1990s. The reports also claimed three of the terrorists had listed their address as the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Fla., and had participated in military exchange programs for foreign officers at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida.

In an interview with a reporter questioning the vaguely-worded Sept 16 Pentagon denial, the Defense Dept spokesman was asked to explain the particulars of fuzzy statements in which officials said "name matches may not necessarily mean the students were the hijackers, and that discrepancies in biographical data indicate 'we are probably not talking about the same people.' (Italics added.)

Pressed repeatedly to provide specifics, the spokesperson finally admitted, 'I do not have the authority to tell you who (which terrorists) attended which schools.'"

Who were these guys, and for whom did they really work?

[Fusions_Minion]

20. Kick for US military trained evildoers

:kick:

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rumguy]

102. The idea that the US military trained Osama's people is stupid

LOL...

[CJCRANE]

110. Didn't they arrest the No.3 Al-Qaeda guy

in Pakistan? I read it in the (UK) Sunday Times ages ago. It was some guy I'd never heard of but it said that he was the No.3 leader and also mastermind of 9-11.

[LunaC]

25. The PNAC Cabal hired him to be the Hit Man

So far, no one has offered a plausible explanation for the following sequence of events:

In May 2001 the U.S. State Department met with Iran, German and Italian officials to discuss Afghanistan. It was decided that the ruling Taliban would be toppled and a "broad-based government" would control the country so a gas pipeline could be built there.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/7969.pdf.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


Even as plans were being made to remove the Taliban rulers from power, Colin Powell announced a $43 million "gift" to Afghanistan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html


Meanwhile, the U.S. Embassy in the UAE received a call that Bin Laden supporters were in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives. It was rumored that Bin Laden was interested in hijacking U.S. aircraft.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf

In June 2001 the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense was changed. NORAD’s military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage2.asp

In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,556254,00.html


In September 2001 the "catastrophic and catalyzing" modern-day Pearl Harbor envisioned years earlier by the White House members of thePNAC came to pass when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked with U.S. aircraft. Immediately, the finger of blame was pointed at Osama bin Laden, a former CIA operative with ties to Afghanistan. Suddenly, the U.S. "gift" of $43 million to the Taliban in May was cast in a new light. Coincidentally, Pakistan had participated in the plan to attack Afghanistan and the chief of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence agency was later linked to a 911 hijacker after wiring him $100,00 just days before the WTC fell.

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=1454238160


In October 2001, with flags waving, crowds cheering, and anthems playing, the "War On Terror" and the hunt for Osama began when Afghanistan was attacked right on schedule of July's secret meeting


Shorrtly afterwards, public focus was diverted to Iraq. You know the rest of the story.



For details on the PNAC coup of the White House see "The Whispering Campaign" link below.

[smallprint]

32. thanks for that excellent summary

the more you look at it, the more obvious it gets...

i couldn't find the 'whispering campaign' link, though-- can you post it again?

[LunaC]

34. My pleasure!

The latest incarnation of "The Whispering Campaign" (I post it periodically)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1957092

btw - my tag line was screwed up (which is why you couldn't find the link) so thanks for your interest and bringing it to my attention so I could fix it. If you liked the blurb above, "The Whispering Campaign" post puts the whole coup of the WH together for you! Pass it along, far and wide!

[kaiso]

72. Do you have a link for this? Please provide one if you have it....

"In June 2001 the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense was changed. NORAD’s military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld."

[bacchant]

27. Never could have seen it coming but instantly knew who did it

Interesting how rapid and focused our response was to an event that "caught us completely by surprise", eh?

[indigobusiness]

35. You nailed the telling point in this...

it is like they were primed and ready, and just waiting to respond specifically.

[Trajan]

28. There is no absolute direct evidence ....

But there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence ....

Furthermore, some of the alternatives presented here border on neurotic posturing ....

Osama Bin Laden has declared publically his disdain for americans, and has taken responsibility for the 911 acts, as well as other vicious acts of murder ...

I despise George Bush AND the GOP ...

But I despise religiously motivated thugs, like the Taliban and OBL, who would use mass murder as a political tool ...

[TexasSissy]

30. The videotape where OBL says he did it.

[Pastiche423]

36. Do you speak Arabic?

Is that how you knew the skinny (or was it the fat) Osama claimed responsibility on the tape?

Do you know what else was discussed on that videotape? I'm sure we could all benefit from your knowledge of the Arabic language.

:eyes:

[rumguy]

40. There are transcripts of the full translation of the that video

Are you saying that the whole Muslim world just stood by while our government put out a phony tranlation?

That' s funny....

[Pastiche423]

44. Link to the transcripts, please

[rumguy]

48. Here

Transcript of Osama bin Laden videotape



UBL: (...Inaudible...) we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all. (...Inaudible...) due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for.

Shaykh: Allah be praised.

UBL: We were at (...inaudible...) when the event took place. We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/tape.transcript/

[lazarus]

38. I never saw that

I saw a videotape of a fat guy the US government said was Osama, saying things that the US government said was admission of the attack.

Do you trust the government? I don't.

Besides, Colin Powell promised us a "white paper" that would spell out all the evidence. Have you seen it? Because I haven't.

[Pastiche423]

42. IIRC, Powell's dog ate the white paper

Or is there another reason why the promised white paper has never been made public?

[Astarho]

41. the "fat Osama" tape?

Putting aside for the moment that it was likely not Osama at all, the tape was entirely in Arabic and the audio was of such poor quality that (non-government) native Arabic speakers could not translate most of it.

I think in most Saudi dialects, an /n/ sound can mean the difference between first person plural and third person plural. So instead of saying "we did...", they could be saying "they did..."

Also he supposedly said we did not expect the towers to fall. Nobody expected that.

[rumguy]

58. no one with any credibility doubts that was Osama on the tape

and that the translation is wrong...

No one credible here in the U.S., and no one credible in the Middle East.

You're clutching at straws...

[Pastiche423]

65. Do you believe in the "the cave man did it" conspiracy theory?

Maybe you do since you believe this is Osama bin Laden:



That's the fat Osama, btw. It's the video where the "transcript" was taken.

Tee hee.

[rumguy]

66. So Middle Eastern governments are just standing by while

a noted Muslim is being framed? What about Al-Jazz, are they also standing by while Osama is being framed?

The thing is no one with any serious credibility doubts that is Osama or that he is responsible for 9/11; not Bill Clinton, not John Kerry, not Howard Dean, not Dennis Kucinich, not even Ralph Nadar.

Are they all in on the conspiracy, or are they just dupes?

[Pastiche423]

71. Show me the proof that OBL did it!

Our government hasn't.

[rumguy]

69. You need to get your stories straight

Is Osama working with us or is he being framed?

If he's being framed, why isn't he speaking up?

If he's working with us, why would the CIA need a stand-in for him?

[Pastiche423]

74. What stories?

I've presented no stories.

Again, show me the proof that the caveman did it.

[rumguy]

77. He's on tape admitting to it

He hasn't spoken up to deny it. His family hasn't spoken up to deny it.

If he's being framed, and he spoke up and could prove it, that would be such a crippling blow to US credibility, it would do more damage than any single terrorist attack.

At the very least you must admit that Osama wants the US out of the Middle East. Why doesn't he speak up and at least try and exonerate himself? If he could do that he'd probably get us out of the Middle East - hell, even our allies in the Middle East would turn against us.

The weight of the evidence as it stands now points to that being Osama on that video admitting to planning and carrying out the 911 attacks.

[Astarho]

67. Really?

Despite the different features between the two Osamas, i.e. the longer thin nose of the skinny Osama. And he gained a lot of weight and then lost it in a matter of weeks.

The translation was done by Egyptian and Lebanese translaters who had a difficult time with Osama's southern Saudi/Yemenite dialect.

[rumguy]

70. Got a link or two about this 'trouble with the translation' thing

I just find it interesting that even Bin Laden's own family admit he planned and carried out 9/11. Not to mention other notable Muslims in other countries.

[Astarho]

80. here ya go

So why didn't the new US translation find the same discrepancies as the German translators did? Read the article in USA Today against the grain: "Michael, who is originally Lebanese, translated the tape with Kassem Wahba, an Egyptian. Both men had difficulties with the Saudi dialect bin Laden and his guest use in the tape, Michael said

http://www.rense.com/general18/inac.htm


But two other Arabic experts say the tape's audio quality is so poor that almost nothing bin Laden says on it can be verified. To my ears, well accustomed to Arabic, half of bin Laden's words were inaudible. The translation was sometimes out of sync with the action on screen. Bin Laden's statements looked cut up and edited.

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1217-07.htm

[rumguy]

82. There is little doubt about the parts where he admitted to it

[CJCRANE]

109. I never saw that

you got any links to his family admitting it?

[smallprint]

63. the videotape, real or not, proves absolutely nothing-- here's why

it was made AFTER 9/11.

ANYONE could make a tape several months after 9/11 claiming that they did it.

I could have made a tape of myself several months after 9/11 claiming that I planned and masterminded the whole thing, and given hours of details about how I did it. All I would have to do would be to read a lot of news stories and insert a few personal details here and there.

Does that prove I did it?

No. IT PROVES NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP. Only a tape made BEFORE 9/11 (and somehow verified that it WAS made before 9/11) could prove anything to that effect.



The question remains: where is the evidence that proves Osama Bin Laden was responsible for planning or executing ANY aspect of 9/11?

[rumguy]

81. the people who carried it out had demonstrable links to bin Laden

[Fusions_Minion]

84. You mean the living hijackers..

Or the ones trained at US military bases?

[rumguy]

85. that is hardly even worth a response

No facts. Only fringy speculation.

Once again, I doubt your sincerity.

[rumguy]

39. There's a goddamn videotape HE sent out where he admits to it

My god, sometimes DU makes me fuckin' sick...

Yeah, that's right the CIA did 9/11 - Osama is just a willing patsy - or better yet, Osama doens't even exist and AQ isn't even real!

[bacchant]

49. You won't hear me claim OBL didn't do it. The question is

did he do it alone? Given his past ties to the CIA, his family's past and present ties to the Bushes, and the fact that Bush blamed OBL then abruptly stopped looking for him "He's not important", I'd say there's enough evidence to warrant this thread. I found it fascinating, in the video where he's discussing the events with his followers, he made a gesture that would indicate he was quite surprised by how quickly the WTC went down.

[rumguy]

52. That's a theory, you can't claim it to be absolutely true

Personally I don't believe that our government is that corrupt...

The planning for 9/11 took place long before Bush came into power...

So was Clinton in on it too?

[bacchant]

53. Yep, I can't claim it to be absolutely true

any more than you can claim it to be absolutely false. This administration has placed so many barriers in the way of the truth, we may never know what actually happened on 911.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. I'm With You... Bush Is A Chump...

But even the Simian In Chief is not capable of this kind of mendacity writ large....

[bacchant]

60. OK, how about the people who installed the simian in office then?

That was no small feat, certainly the people who accomplished this takeover do have mendacity.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I Don't Think So...

I don't think Wolfie, Perle, William Kristol, etcetera are capable of this kind of mendacity....

[bacchant]

64. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Saudi Royals, Carlyse, Halliburton, Enron...

Pretty much anyone at the Energy Task Force meeting.

[LibertyorDeath]

45. Try this maybe just maybe one of the most

Corrupt regimes to ever hold power The Saudis Royals

did a preemptive attack of such ferocity that the Neocons

had to back down from their original plan to overthrow

this regime.

Instead they did the next best thing & invaded their

neighbor Iraq & have now set up 14 Military bases there.

What if the Neocons had the Saudi Royal Family in their sites

but the Saudis beat them to the punch.

The Saudis are armed to the Teeth by the USA so it would be

a covert op to destabilize their regime from within.

The Saudi Royals have many internal problems from decades of

autocratic rule American black ops could fund & support an overthrow

of this Regime.

If the Saudis got wind of this they may have struck America using

one of their own who already loathes America.

I think the Saudi Royals are capable of this if they felt threatened

to this extent by the USA.

Any thought on this. I'm just kicking it around.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. This Is Akin To "Is Hitler Responsible For The Final Solution"...

There's no video of Hitler directly ordering the destruction of European Jewry but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming just as there's no video of OBL ordering the 9-11 attack but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming...


All the elements of a circumstantial case are there-means , motive and opportunity...


Three additional points...

1)To blame Israel for 9-11 is blood libel akin to saying Jews use the blood of gentile babies to make matzoh....

2) Sometimes I'm aghast at some of the things I read here...

and

3) Before you challenge my left of center creds I think Bush is a chump and his invasion of Iraq was "the greatest strategic blunder in the history of the republic....


Peace


Brian


P.S. Much of this post is not aimed at the seminal poster as he didn't suggest the Jews were responsible for 9-11...

[Fusions_Minion]

57. Your rhetoric is charming but....

No facts.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. What Evidence Are You Looking For...

A video?

[DWolper]

68. This thread is a bit scary

Talk to Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, Gary Hart, John Kerry(!), Barbara Boxer, any number of Democratic leaders about Osama bin Laden and radical Islamic groups and what kind of threat they pose to our nation. They will all tell you it is a huge threat. None would even begin to question Osama's role in 9-11. I sit in Toronto on a working trip this Saturday afternoon and wonder just what is happening back in my country when good people cannot see the truth that is staring them in the face. I met a man recently who has a book that all of us should read. He is a man who has no real political agenda except to warn us of the threat from Osama and radical Islam. His name is Paul L. Williams and he has all the facts you need in his book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591022525/qid=1089485845

Please note this isn't some right-wing publisher. It comes from Prometheus Books - certainly one to take seriously.

Williams presents clear evidence showing that, in the chaos following the breakup of the Soviet Union, the Chechen Mafia got its hands on portable Russian nuclear weapons. Between 1996 and 2001, mafia members negotiated the sale of twenty nuclear "suitcase bombs" to representatives of Osama bin Laden. Far worse than so-called "dirty bombs," each suitcase bomb is capable of killing millions of Americans while exposing millions more to deadly radioactive fallout. According to Williams, reliable sources indicate that these bombs may already be in the possession of al Qaeda operatives in such major cities as New York, Washington, Miami, Chicago, Las Vegas, Houston, and Los Angeles. In addition, bin Laden has recruited former Soviet scientists and technicians to maintain these weapons and recharge their nuclear cores so that they may be deployed immediately on his command. In 2001 he issued a statement boasting of his intent to have America experience a "Hiroshima."

Also included in the book are bin Laden's "Letters to America" and his "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places," as well as the World Islamic Statement declaring "Jihad against Jews and Crusaders." These crucial documents highlight the rationale behind and the depth of bin Laden's hatred for the United States. Moreover, Williams documents that Osama has the international network of embedded terrorists to carry out his threats.

Although the media have reported on some of these threatening developments and government insiders have acknowledged the threat of nuclear attack, until now no one has put all the pieces together in a coherent, nonsense way. Williams makes a persuasive case that bin Laden and his deputies have the motive and the means and are just waiting for the opportunity to launch an apocalyptic attack on the "Great Satan" of America.

[Fusions_Minion]

83. Did Osama also steal anthrax from Fort Detrick

and mail it to Tom Daschle?

[rumguy]

86. No one is claming that Osama had anything to do with that...

You are not making sense....

You're just throwing up a bunch of shit hoping some it sticks...

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DWolper]

103. Fusions

I don't think I quite understood your post. Could you clarify? What is "CU"?? Fly, fly fly??? Clarify. Thanks

[TomNickell]

99. Yes, all these threads are scary....

More than a little bit, in fact.

Thanks for posting some documentation. It's hard to argue the obvious sometimes.

[Ms. Clio]

105. I find your "expert" even scarier

"Even more explicit is the book "Osama's Revenge," whose author, the "former FBI consultant" Paul L. Williams, was publicized by Fox News on June 28, 2004, at 1:50 PM. According to Williams (bio and blurb below) Osama Bin Laden already has 20 Soviet-made suitcase bombs, and these nukes are already in the United States. Williams estimates al Qaeda's strength in this country at about 5,000 sleeper agents who are now ready for action. He also cited a warning that New York City was a nuclear target which was allegedly given by Tenet to Bush in October 2001, but never communicated to Mayor Giuliani. Williams has the profile of a borderline psychotic personality, but that proved no obstacle to being invited back for a return performance by the Fox hostess."


http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/070604Tarpley/070604tarpley.html

[DWolper]

106. You are very wrong

A blogger gives his opinion about Mr. Williams and you accept that as gospel truth? FYI, Williams has appeared on CNN, MSNBC, and was profiled in a recent PBS (WGHB) production. To point to a far-left blogger as "proof" that Mr. Williams is "psychotic" is preposterous. Again, the publisher is Prometheus Books - a well-known left of center publisher who is also, by the way, the largest publisher of atheist and freethought material in the world:
http://www.prometheusbooks.com/co.html

I think facts are important. Not pointers to some internet blogger as "proof" of ANYTHING.

[Ms. Clio]

107. What he reports as Williams' "facts" are psychotic bullshit

Interesting you describe my source as "far left blogger," however.

Edited to add:

ebster Griffin Tarpley is a historian and journalist based in Washington, DC. He is the author of the best-selling critical study "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" (1992).

[DWolper]

111. About YOUR "expert"

Webster Griffin Tarpley? Never heard of him. The reason I said what I did was I looked at the site and then did a Google search on your "historian" Mr. Tarpley. I found ZERO academic references to the man, but dozens to sites like "Global Free Press" "Questions, Questions" and other conspiracy sites. I think Mr. Williams record speaks for itself - as does your Webster Tarpley. I also checked his one book to his credit, the "Bush biography", which Amazon shows as out-of-print and published by Executive Review Press - owned and operated by Lyndon LaRouche. Still want to talk credibility?

[Ms. Clio]

112. Oh stop it

If you really believe Al-Q has 20 nuclear weapons in the U.S. right now, a reasonable conversation is impossible.

Williams is a looney toon.

[Cleita]

75. There was a video of him having dinner with some visiting

Sheik from Saudi Arabia where he admitted it and spoke about it, but since I don't speak Arabic, I don't know if the translation was correct. Maybe some of our Middle East DUers could weigh in on exactly what was said. The video was on line for awhile so maybe a Google search will turn it up somewhere.

[Minstrel Boy]

87. here's the skinny on "Fat Osama":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719399&mesg_id=1719399

Only time we saw him was the providential tape found in Afghanistan, released by the State Department, in which he claims credit.

[rumguy]

89. the clips we've seen of him have been taken at different times

some have been years apart. Some have just been video of him walking up and down mountians with his voice dubbed over. Those videos could have been taken a year or more before the attack. Maybe he fell ill and could no longer hike up and donw mountains, so he wanted to portray himself in a heroic light and used the older footage...

People can gain weight and lose weight, ya know? Maybe he's sick or has some disease. In fact, I've read that he does have health problems.

Also video and pictures can make people appear fatter than they actually are...and slightly distort features.

Bottom line: you must admit that Osama wants the US out of the ME. Why doesn't he or his family speak up and disprove this tape? That would do more to damage the US than any single terrorist attack would. Our credibility all over the world would be destroyed.

[maveric]

91. And can he change his facial bone structure and then change it back?

Some people just refuse to beleive that the good old US of A is capable of committing any evil. These assholes LIED about the reasons for invading a non- threatening sovereign nation, killing thousands of innocent civilians and almost 1000 american soldiers.

I am not completely sure that OBL was one who orchestrated 911. He probably did but I refuse to take what this lying,stealing,cheating and killing administration as the truth just because they say its so.

[rumguy]

93. He doesn't change his bone structure

The voice and the cadence are the same as well.

And just because you think the Admin. hyped the Iraq war that doesn't mean that OBL didn't carry out the 911 attack.

[homelandpunk]

92. listen to yourself

"People can gain weight and lose weight, ya know? Maybe he's sick or has some disease. In fact, I've read that he does have health problems.

Also video and pictures can make people appear fatter than they actually are...and slightly distort features."

You sound desperate to believe in this fairy tale.

I'd rather live scared to death of my government than to talk myself into believing bullshit.
If you cannot deal with the fear, then stop taking an interest. Cuz fear is the result. Learn to live with it instead of closing your eyes and repeating "there IS a Santa Claus! There IS!"

[rumguy]

94. the pictures and videos we've seen of him have been taken at widely

different times - that is a fact...

Further there are reports of him being in ill health. That is another FACT.

You need to learn to deal with real facts and not drift off into strange conspiracy nonesense.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

95. Do you really believe that the person in ALL of the photos...

...shown on the following website are Osama Bin Laden?:

<http://www.mbpolitics.com/obl/>

Why are the stills of the person from the alleged "Osama Confesses" video so much different from the other photos of Osama?

And please, don't wander off on "Osama was sick", "Osama was in disguise", or any other potential excuse...just answer the question.

[rumguy]

96. I see the same guy

Those are pictures and videos taken at different times.

And the fact is Osama is probably in ill health. There are reports of this. You're the one wandering off...

[Fusions_Minion]

97. You are polluting this thread,

with your elaborate fantasies.

Your evidence boils down to a fuzzy video found in a cave.

Nothing more.

[rumguy]

100. LOL

Yeah right....our big bad CIA did 9/11, framed Osama, and also works with Osama as well....

:7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

B-)

[Fusions_Minion]

104. Just for you

http://www.guerrillafunk.com/audio/paris/Sonic_Jihad/WhatWouldYouDoLong.mp3

[TomNickell]

98. ROFLMAO!! YES, THERE IS EVIDENCE.

Another Bullshit Consiracy Hobbyist thread.

Start with reading Richard Clarke's book. There are some others less famous.
The 9/11 commission report will be very complete.

Yes, there is information from The Government here. 'The Government' is made up of human beings.

[rumguy]

101. I guess Clarke who stuck his neck out to criticize Bush is also in on it

yeah right...

[gatorboy]

108. Heh! I love all those different Osama pics..

It's like young Elvis and fat Elvis :D
When do we get to vote on the stamp?