Are we really torturing children in Iraq?

[Peak_Oil]

Can this really be true? What should we do? I'm totally stunned. You know, the thing that became immediately apparent to me is it's only a matter of time before this starts happening here.

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2004_07_04.html#001637

From Tom Tommorrow

July 08, 2004

German TV news report (and take a deep breath, folks): Children at Abu Ghraib

(Note: this entry posted by Bob Harris)

Three days ago, a German TV newsmagazine called Report Mainz broadcast an eight-minute segment reporting that the International Red Cross found at least 107 children in coaliton-administered detention centers in Iraq.

The report also quotes from a yet-unpublished June 2004 UNICEF report, which (as near as I can tell through my crappy German) confirms that children were routinely arrested and "interned" in a camp in Um-Qasr. UNICEF seems particularly vexed with the "internment" status, since that means indefinite detention.

Another storm seems about to begin. Possibly a large one.

Even if you have no German at all, hit the link and watch the video. (Click where it says "Beitrag ansehen" and you'll get a RealVideo stream. I'd include a direct link but the server seems to require you to link from the page.) There's some footage of the internment camps here that you're not likely to see on American TV. The link also includes a complete transcript, in German.

In addition to the Red Cross and UNICEF concerns, Report Mainz broadcast an original interview with U.S. Army Sgt. Samuel Provance, who was stationed for six months at Abu Ghraib and later quite famously blew the whistle about abuses there and the subsequent cover-up. In this interview, Provance confirms the presence of teenagers in Abu Ghraib, describing the torture-by-cold-and-exposure of a teenage boy in order to get his father to talk.

The General Secretary of Amnesty International in Germany, Barbara Lochbihler, is finally shown demanding a full accounting from the U.S. government, describing the information as "scandalous."

A few caveats: I haven't found where Provance mentioned young people at Abu Ghraib until now, and another witness in the report describes "hundreds" of pre-pubescents at Abu Ghraib, which tingles my smell detector. Then again, I wouldn't have believed in Stack-The-Iraqis at first, either.

There's also the point that a 15-year-old can damn sure fire a gun. But even so, since 70-90 percent of those at Abu Ghraib were innocent, if at least 107 kids were locked up, the best-case scenario is still that the U.S. has interned a boatload of innocent Iraqi kids. That's still bad.

The worst-case, meanwhile, if the German TV report is even close... is a lot worse.

Meanwhile, there's not a damn thing -- I mean, not a single word I can find -- about this yet in the U.S. media, but it's starting to pick up speed on the rest of our tiny planet, so far showing up in Der Spiegel (roughly Germany's equivalent to Time), an Australian ABC Radio report, and TV2 and NRK television in Norway, where the story might even lead to a change in Norway's participation in the U.S.-led coalition.

If you're an American news reporter led here by a reader, but you need a hook that doesn't place the incendiary charges in the lead (for whatever reason), OK, here's your story on a platter: Bush may even lose another ally over this. Hit the Norwegian links, and you'll find that the local Amnesty International has stated that "Norway can not continue its military collaboration with the US in light of the alleged torture of children." Norway actually listens to its activists; you'll find that the Prime Minister's office says it plans to address the situation with the U.S. "in a very severe and direct way."

If this ain't news, I don't know what the hell is.

[stellanoir]

1. this heinous atrocity has been cited

in the French, Norweigian, & Danish media as well.

The Danes and the Norwegians were calling for an inquiry through UNICEF and some European Child Protection Charity.

I only saw one reference to an online American source (abc online in the wee hours of this morning) that reported on this travesty.

Sorry I'm not good at all at cross referencing multiple threads but apparently, all of Europe is buzzing outraged by this. As well they should be, as should we.

Stay tuned

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Yes

Heres' some proof that children are being taken prisoner in Iraq and from the pics are treated no different than the adults. I think it would be safe to assume that they are also tortured like the adults.

[ClassWarrior]

14. ONE WORD:

YES.

[liberalmuse]

3. Sy Hersch has made brief mention of it...

but it's unlikely that we will be seeing these videos on our nightly newscasts. According to some of the reports I've read, children were tortured in front of their parents. Some young adolescent girls were raped. It makes me sick. What kind of human being could hurt a child, or another human being for that matter???

I, too, am worried that if Bush gets another term, we liberals are going to end up naked, stacked in pyramids, with glowsticks up our butts. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that many wingnuts will be very motivated concentration camp 'administrators'.

[undergroundpanther]

4. bullies

enjoy harming others,diminishing others.
Bush and his ilk are sociopaths.Anyone who would obey an order to rape a child has a bully heart and they are unfit to exist around human beings.

Abusers,narcissists, socialized sociopaths,sadists who don't respect consent are what is destroying this earth.They misuse power,abuse trust and the goodwill extended to them.

Never give a bully trust,a position of power or allot of wealth they will use it to steal,dominate and hurt people with it because they have no judgment,empathy, ethics or conscience.They are ruthless to others yet cry victim ,evade responsibility,blame someone else,shoot the messenger,or lie when people stand up to them and refuse to tolerate their abuses.These bullies egos suck a person dry like black holes,they create false appearances about themselves and use charisma claims of your 'over sensitivity', and the cognitive dissonance between truth,denial and delusion victims sometimes feel around a bully to get away with more abuse.

Bullies really are not like us.They do the kinds of shit we cannot stomach because they are corrupted in their hearts.They truly cannot exist without abusing someone else.They can't live and let live.

So why trust a bully child rapist enough to let them live?

[europeanguest]

5. no statement by the pentagon. the journos asked for it.

hi guys,

i am german - what else do you want to know? the story is quite big over here.

[scarletwoman]

11. Hello europeanguest!

Thank you for your kind offer, and welcome to DU! :hi:

I'm sure we'd ALL be interested in ANYTHING you want to post about this matter. I'm interested in knowing what sort of reaction the German public are having to these reports and if your government has issued any sort of Official statements about this.

sw

[Peak_Oil]

13. Is it all over the streets?

Do people in Germany hate us now?

[europeanguest]

22. hiya guys!

no, nobody hates you now. not the persons i know, that's for sure. but there is concern and a general feeling of 'we told you so. war is a nasty business, such things happen during war and we were afraid right from the start, that the whole iraq enterprise would lead to more harm than good.'

which is, i fear, a valid statement to make. there is indeed a particular unease with the current administration and, i suspect, also a mixed feeling of contempt and despair towards the admin. but this does not apply to the american people. how could it? you know our bloody history. there is hardly anyone still alive but we would never judge a people on it's leader because we germans know how it feels if you encounter this feeling even 60 years after one of your peoples' leaders was responsible for the most heinous crimes ever recorded in the history of mankind.

as for the story. it has been fairly widely reported but, as there are investigations pending and a report coming up, it's more a thing of 'wait and see what comes out of it'. i'll try to let you know what comes out of it. what times are these! so good there is the net to get connected and exchange infos!

[LibertyorDeath]

6. Media contact list courtesy maggrwaggr

If this issue touches your Heart & makes your Blood Boil.

Please take some time & contact some of the Media listed.

Some will break from the Herd & start to report this important story
the rest will have no choice but to follow.

AP - Ron Fournier, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2021 K St NW, Washington, DC 20006
AP - Jennifer Loven, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2021 K St NW, Washington, DC 20006
Bloomberg News - Richard Keil (aka "Stretch"), White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1399 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005
Bloomberg News - Heidi Przybyla, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1399 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005
Bloomberg News - Holly Rosenkrantz, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1399 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 200
Business Week - Richard S. Dunham, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1200 G St NW, Washington, DC 20005-3802
Business Week - Alexandra Starr, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] (attn to Alexandra Starr) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1200 G St NW, Washington, DC 20005-3802
Catholic News Service - Patricia Zapor, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 3211 4th St NE, Washington, DC 20017-1100
CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) - Melissa Charbonneau, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1111 19th St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) - Paul Strand, Washington Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1111 19th St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News - Rita Braver, Washington Correspondent [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News - Joie Chen, Washington Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News (and CBS Radio News) - Mark Knoller, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS Radio News - Peter Maer, White House Correspondent [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News - John Roberts, Senior White House Correspondent [e-mail] (attn John Roberts) Phone: [phone]; Fax:
If this issue touches your heart or makes your blood boil.

PLEASE take some time & contact some or all of the media listed
below. Ask them in a professional manner to cover this important story.

Some will break from the herd & start coverage when this happens the
rest will have to report it whether they want to or not !


[phone]; Address: 524 W 57th St, New York, NY 10019-2902
CBS News - Bill Plante, White House Correspondent [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News - John Schieffer, Chief Washington Correspondent [e-mail] (attn Bob Schieffer) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 2020 M St NW, Washington, DC 20036
CBS News - Susan Spencer, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] (attn Susan Spencer) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 524 W 57th St, New York, NY 10019
Christian Science Monitor - Linda Feldmann, White House Reporter [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 910 16th St NW, Washington, DC 20006
Christian Science Monitor - Abraham McLaughlin, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 910 16th St NW, Washington, DC 20006


He, who lives by the sword, shall die by it. - Jesus Christ.

[LibertyorDeath]

7. part 2

CNBC - Hampton Pearson, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1025 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC 20036
Common Dreams - Russell Mokhiber [e-mail] Website: http://www.commondreams.org /
Copley News Service - George Condon, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Address: 1100 National Press Bldg, Washington, DC 20045 (see San Diego below)
Copley News Service - Finlay Lewis, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Address: 1100 National Press Bldg, Washington, DC 20045 (see San Diego below)
Cox Newspapers - Bob Deans, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: Washington Bureau, Washington, DC 20001 (Pres. of White House Correspondents Assn.)
Cox Newspapers - George Edmondson [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001 (see Atlanta Journal-Constitution below)
Cox Newspapers - Melanie Eversley [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001 (see Atlanta Journal-Constitution below)
Cox Newspapers - Mei-Ling Hopgood, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: Washington Bureau, Washington, DC 20001 (see Dayton Daily News below)
Cox Newspapers - Chuck Lindell, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001 (see Austin American-Statesman below)
Cox Newspapers - Larry Lipman, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001 (see Palm Beach Post below)
CNN News - Charles Bierbauer, Senior Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 820 1st St NE, Washington, DC 20002
CNN News - John King, Senior White House Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 820 1st St NE, Washington, DC 20002
CNN News - Suzanne Malveaux, White House Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 820 1st St NE, Washington, DC 20002
CNN Radio - Dick Uliano, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Address: 820 1st St NE, Washington, DC 20002
Dow Jones News Service - Alex Keto, White House Reporter [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1025 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC 20036
Fox News - Jim Angle, Senior White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Major Garrett, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Wendell Goler, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Molly Henneberg, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Brit Hume, Chief Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - James Rosen, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Collins Spencer, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Fox News - Brian Wilson, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 400 N Capitol St NW, Washington, DC 20001
Gannett News Service - Doug Abrahms, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Reno Gazette-Journal below)
Gannett News Service - Larry Bivins, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Nashville Tennessean below)
Gannett News Service - Faith Bremner, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Boise Idahoan Statesman below)
Gannett News Service - Pam Brogan, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - James Carroll, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Louisville Courier-Journal below)
Gannett News Service - Raju Chebium, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Greenville News below)
Gannett News Service - Dick DePledge, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Honolulu Advertiser below)
Gannett News Service - Jon Frandsen, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - Maureen Groppe, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Indianapolis Star below)
Gannett News Service - John Hanchette, White House Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - Billy House, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Phoenix Arizona Republic below)
Gannett News Service - Erin Kelly, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Burlington Free Press below)
Gannett News Service - Mike Madden, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Sioux Falls Argus Leader below)
Gannett News Service - Deborah Mathis, White House Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - Jane Norman, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Des Moines Register below)
Gannett News Service - Ana Radelat, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Jackson Clarion-Ledger below)
Gannett News Service - Susan Roth, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - Katherine Scott, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Lansing State Journal and Norwich Bulletin below)
Gannett News Service - Brian Tumulty, Washington Correspondent (no e-mail given) Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934
Gannett News Service - Carl Weiser, Washington Correspondent [e-mail] Phone: [phone]; Fax: [phone]; Address: 1100 New York Ave NW, Washington, DC 20005-3934 (see Cincinnati Enquirer below)

[europeanguest]

9. need help. looking for misanthrope

yep guys, go for it!! so there haven't been any reports in the US media?

something else. ok, some of you might already have read my text below which i have posted a couple of times on other threads. maybe someone can help me.

dear all,

again sorry for crashing the thread but apparently i haven't posted enough yet to open a thread on my own.

a couple of weeks ago i stumbled over the case of a radio
announcer. he was a poster on DU and, apparently, got fired for reasons related to his activity. some of you might remember the story.

i was wondering whether anyone of you found got the real name of this poster who was posting under the nick 'misanthrope'. maybe he himself is still here under a different nick?

as far as I am aware, the person in question was planned to be on duty the friday former president Ronald Reagan was buried. before that day, the announcer in question posted on DU that he had
been instructed to program a "reflective, respectful piece by an American composer" into each hour of our programming on that friday (his shift was from 10-12). he eventually drew up a rather ironic playlist for that day of 'national observance'. however, he never played it because he got fired on
thursday the 10th of June, i.e. one day before. the freeper had read misanthrope's posting, puzzled the relevant info together, found out the station misanthrope was working for and informed the manager.

from what i read, the station had been informed about the announcer’s
posting activities by a poster from freerepublic.com and decided to fire him because of these activities.

maybe there is a legal case pending and misanthrope has decided not to post here anymore for a while. if that would be the case,
i'd fully understand that he did't think it's wise to comment on the
issue publicly. however, i would very appreciate if anyone of you could simply confirm the real name of the announcer.


why am i looking for him? well, i am freelance journalist who writes occassionally for the online edition of one germany's biggest magazines.
the magazine in question already had some unpleasant experience with freepers some months ago. they 'freeped' a poll asking for an assessment of president's bush performance
thus far (amazingly, one of them checked a German website and was able to read it!). well, they were found out and got ridiculed in an article for that.

i'd like to write a kind of follow-up story about them - i have all the info available except the real name of misanthrope.

to make that clear: I WOULD NOT REVEAL HIS NAME IN THE ARTICLE. however, i need his name as a corroboration for the editor when i try to get the article published.

after two mails by me, misanthrope's station manager has answered that he won't discuss staff matters publicly. that means the story is true. so there. the station is WHIL in Mobile, Alabama and the announcer i am looking for would have had duty on friday from 10 to 12.

is there anyone who could help me? I ABSOLUTELY GUARENTEE ANONYMITY. and, provided i get the article published, freerepublic would get a decent smacking in one of germany's most reputable news mags.

so please click on my icon and mail me.

thanks

[scarletwoman]

12. You can try reaching him through his profile page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=125515

There's no email for him, just a "private message" link. He was still posting here as of July 2, so hopefully you'll be able to reach him.

sw

[europeanguest]

21. dear scarletwoman!!!!

well thanks. i have tried to but got this note:

" The page you requested cannot be displayed.
You don't have enough posts to send private messages.

The information you requested cannot be displayed because it is no longer available. If you think this is in error, please contact the site administrator.
If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator.
Click here to go back to previous page."

if the insufficient number of my posts really is the problem, i was wondering whether you could send him a private message? you seem to have 1000 posts plus. maybe you could give him my username and send him the following message?

"Dear Misanthrope,


I am a freelance journalist from Germany. A couple of days ago I stumbled over your case. Apparently, you got fired for reasons related to your posting activity on DU.


As far as I am aware, you were planned to be on duty the
Friday former American president Ronald Reagan was buried. Before that day, you had posted on democraticunderground.com that your supervisor has instructed you to program a "reflective, respectful piece by an American composer" into each hour of our programming on that Friday (shift
from 10-12). Eventually you drew up a rather ironic playlist for that day of 'national observance'. However, you never got to play it because you got fired on Thursday the 10th of June, i.e. one day before.

According to my sources, the station had been informed about the announcer’s posting activities by a poster from the right-leaning talkboard freerepublic.com and decided to fire you because of these activities.

I am aware that you haven't posted on this subject on DU
for a while. Maybe there is a legal case pending. If that would be the case, I would fully understand that you don't think it's wise to comment on the issue publicly. However, I would very appreciate if you could simply confirm me your real name and confirm the story so far. To make this absolutely clear: I would guarentee anonymity and wouldn't use your name. So if you're willing to get in contact with me, do so via my DU nick and send me a message.

To make my intention clear: I am not interested in any pseudo-journalistic smear campaign. What I am interested in, is the fact that apparently political grass-root campaigners especially from the right use personal and potentially compromising information (they
found via the net) about their political opponents to further their cause.

The magazine I intend to write the article for (the biggest leaft-leaning mag in Germany) already had some unpleasant experience with freepers. They 'freeped' a poll asking for an assessment of President's Bush performance thus far (amazingly, one of them checked a German website and was able to read it!). Well, they were found out manipulating the poll and got a not-so-nice article in the mag for that.

I have already contacted Mr. S. from your station. He replied with a brief statement which said that he refused to discuss any personal matters publicly."


OK, scarletwoman, that would be the text. Does it make sense?

[europeanguest]

23. just to keep

...the thread going.

[vorischt]

26. euroguest i have a question regarding your publication

and articles. would you mind to write corig1 at hotmail dot com? I too can not use the mail or private message buttons.

[europeanguest]

25. hi scarlettwoman...

...could you check the longer text i posted for you on this thread? please let me know whether you could help me...

thanks!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Yes, I'm afraid so. Bad business all the way around.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. More on this here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=668288

[TexasSissy]

15. I have seen no evidence of this. And I don't read German, so I can't

read the transcript. I've linked to one of those before.

I'll wait to enter judgment until I see credible evidence of it or hear testimony about it.

[Karenina]

27. Self-explanatory moniker, eh?

Oder? Just asking. :hi:

[reorg]

16. translation of transcript

in the following my own translation of the German transcript of the report in question.

It is stated on the website of "Report Mainz" (see below) that the transcript download is provided for "personal use". I trust that my translating it and showing the translation here to DU readers is such a personal use and does not constitute a commercially relevant "utilization":


R E P O R T MAINZ

http://www.swr.de/report

Fall of man Iraq – Reports on abused Children in Torture Prison


Author: Thomas Reutter
Camera: Helmut Meyer
Cutter: Zsuzsa Döme


Moderator: Fritz Frey:

News from Iraq. The daily assault, Saddam in court, abducted troops, with each news breaking we loose sight of those reported previously. Remember the Abu Ghraib torture-prison scandal? Uh, sure, I remember I heard something.

REPORT has stuck to the topic and stumbled upon a story that sounds totally incredible. That also children and youths were imprisoned and tortured in Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. Thomas Reutter on his difficult search for clues.


Report:

With the armoured vehicle charging through the door. US troops storming into residential premises, searching for terrorists. In these raids, sometimes they are rounding up also children. What happens to these children? The military don’t give details on this. We look into it, meet with informants.

One who knows something about it is Sergeant Samuel Provance, member of the army’s secret service. He was stationed in the infamous torture prison Abu Ghraib for 6 months. Today, 5 months later, we meet Sergeant Provance in Heidelberg.

His superiors have strictly banned him from talking to journalists about what he experienced in Abu Ghraib. However, Provance will talk about it nevertheless. He is plagued by his conscience. He tells us about a 16-year-old youth whom he had to haul off himself.

Samuel Provance, US-Sergeant:

»He was very afraid, very alone. He had the thinnest arms I have ever seen. He was shivering all over. His wrists were so thin that we were unable to fix the handcuffs. The very first time I saw him, I was escorting him, I felt sorry. The interrogation specialists doused him with water and put him into a car. Then they drove him through the night, and it was very very cold at that time. Later they smeared him with mud and showed to him his father, who was also imprisoned. With his father they had tested other interrogation techniques. However, it was impossible to bring him to talk. The interrogation specialists told me when he saw his son in that state it was what broke his heart. He cried and promised to tell everything they wanted to know.«

Notwithstanding, the son remained in detention. As a 16-year-old the boy had to join the adults. However, Provance gives account of a special department, particularly designed for children. A secret prison tract for children in the Abu Ghraib horror prison.

Someone who has seen the prison tract for children with his own eyes is the journalist Suhaib Badr-Addin Al-Baz. Our correspondent met him last week in Bagdad. The Iraq TV reporter tells the story how he himself was arbitrarily detained by Americans and had to stay in Abu Ghraib for 74 days.


Suhaib Badr-Addin Al-Baz, TV reporter:

»There I saw a camp for children. Very young, prepubesecent. In this camp there were surely hundreds of children. Some of them have been released since, others certainly remain there.«

From his cell in the prison tract for adults where he was held in solitary confinement, Suhaib heard the crying of a girl, maybe 12 years old. Later he learned that her brother was detained in the second floor of the same prison. One or two times he saw her himself.

During the night they were in her cell. The girl cried out so the other detainees could hear her, and shouted out the name of her brother.

A draftsman has made a sketch for the British TV station ITN.

Suhaib Badr-Addin Al-Baz, TV reporter:

»She was being beaten. I heard her cry: They have undressed me, they have poured water over me.«

Daily, says Suhaib, one could hear her cries and whimpers. Some of the other detainees could not help weeping because of that. Suhaib also tells of a sick 15-year-old boy. With heavy water canisters they chased him up and down the hall. Until he broke down from exhaustion, says Suhaib. Then they brought in his father, caught. With a hood over his head. Shocked to see this, the boy broke down once again.

In their so-called „war on terror“ the Americans storm residential premises in Iraq. According to Suhaib, they sometimes detain entire families that appear suspicious to them. Individual testimony, hard to verify.

We search for more proof for the detainment of children. And indeed. UNICEF in Geneva, the children’s help network of the UN. We find an explosive report. Only a few days old.

Therein it says

Quote:
»Children detained in Basra and Kerbala (..) were routinely transferred to internment in Um Qasr.«


The internment camp Um Qasr. Photos from 2003. Nowadays, it is too dangerous for reporters to go to Um Qasr. The camp, an internment facility for terrorists and criminals. So here, of all places, the Americans have detained children like war criminals? UNICEF writes:

Quote:
»The categorisation of these children as „internees“ causes concern, since it means the period of detainment is uncertain, they are held without contact to their family, and have to expect judicial proceedings or a lawsuit.«

Outside of this report, UNICEF declines to comment on the issue. Their own staff in Iraq have to be protected. We look for further information, turn to the International Committee of the Red Cross. Their aid workers inspect Um Qasr, Abu Ghraib und other detainment facilities. After intensive discussions we receive further confirmation and even numbers.


Florian Westphal, International Committee of the Red Cross:

»Between January and May of this year we have registered in total 107 children. This was during 19 visits in six different detainment locations. It has to be stressed that these locations are really in control of coalition troops.«


In the internment camp Um Qasr as well as in Abu Ghraib underage detainees were registered by the Red Cross. Thus two international organisations have confirmed to us independently from each other that occupation troops hold Iraqi children in detention. However, we do not get to information directly from the prisons themselves. Not even UNICEF was allowed to visit the “kiddy can” in Bagdad.


Quote:
»In July 2003 UNICEF applied for a visit in this detainment facility, but access was denied.«


Since december there have been no independent observers at all in the kiddy can, according to UNICEF. The US army in fact opened the scandal prison Abu Ghraib for a round tour of journalists. But the reporters were presented with a showcase facility. Detained children were not shown to the press.

We put on record: Four sources confirm independently from each other that occupation forces detain children as prisoners. Two witnesses even report mistreatments. The German chapter of the human rights organisation Amnesty International is outraged over reports on Iraqi children prisoners. Barbara Lochbihler of AI Germany calls for consequences.

Barbara Lochbihler, General secretary Amnesty International:

»The US government naturally has to comment on this report, they have to issue concrete information, how old these children are, what are the reasons for detainment, under what circumstances were they detained. And whether these children were subjected to torture and mistreatment. And here are and do not even know the names of these children, how many them are there. Independent inspections are not welcome. This is scandalous.



Moderator Fritz Frey:

Of course, we have confronted the responsible persons with the results of our research. The British ministry of defense communicated: children and underage persons are not being held in detainment by British troops. We are still waiting for a response by the American Pentagon.


Links:
Reports of the human rights organisation Amnesty International on Iraq
http://www2.amnesty.de/internet/deall.nsf/WNachLand?OpenView&Start=1&Count=200&Expand=67#67"

International Committee of the Red Cross
http://www.icrc.org

The Children’s help network UNICEF
http://www.unicef.de



Other translation of (partial) transcript found here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/436004.html


---
edited for typos

[reorg]

17. UNICEF statement

This story was news to me also when I read it yesterday at Tom Tomorrow's site, although I live in Germany ... don't watch a lot of tv these days.


However, for UNICEF the story seems to be old news! Look at the date of this:

"Official statement
UNICEF Statement on Iraq

GENEVA / NEW YORK, 11 May 2004 – UNICEF is profoundly disturbed by news reports alleging that children may have been among those abused in detention centres and prisons in Iraq. Although the news reports have not been independently substantiated, they are alarming nonetheless.

..."

http://www.unicef.org/media/media_20927.html


What news reports are they referring to?

[Auntie Bush]

18. What makes you think it isn't already happening?

[reorg]

20. good point

Children in Guantanamo: letter from Amnesty International to president Bush

George W. Bush
The President
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington DC 20500
USA

Date: 24 April 2003

Dear Mr President,

I am writing to express our deep concern at reports that several children are among the more than 600 detainees being held in the US Naval Base in Guantánamo Bay. We have written to your government on several occasions since the detainee transfers to the Naval Base began more than a year ago, and deeply regret that our concerns have gone unanswered and unremedied. While we continue to seek such remedies, under international law and standards, for the adult prisoners, we are now urgently requesting your assurances that the USA will abide by its international obligations in relation to these young detainees.

The reports indicate that a “handful” of children, described as being between the ages of 13 and 15 years old, have been “discovered” by the authorities in Guantánamo. It is reported that the children were transferred, possibly from the Air Base in Bagram, earlier this year. We further note that a 16-year-old Canadian national, Omar Khadr, was transferred in late 2002 from Afghanistan to the Guantánamo Naval Base. We are concerned by reports indicating that it took six months for even the Canadian government to have access to him. Along with all the other detainees, he remains without access to legal counsel or his family.

(...)

http://www.amnesty.nl/artikelen/NK-ART0331.shtml

[oasis]

19. It seems Bush is enabling war criminals to flourish.

[DrWeird]

24. You're surprised?

You've already seen photos of US troops torturing people.

Why would they be incapable of torturing children?