Should the Constitution be amended to do away with this clause?

[UrbScotty]

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; ...

Jennifer Granholm would be allowed to run for President :D , but so would Ah-nuld :puke: ... if Republicans let him.

[Philosophy]

1. To all who voted "no": why not?

I can't think of any non-xenophobic reason to keep it.

[No Mandate Here.]

2. It isn't broken, why fix it?

I will be very pleased to have a Mozambique born First Lady.

[UrbScotty]

37. It IS broken.

A system in which immigrants may not run for President of a nation of immigrants (and descendents thereof) is broken and needs fixing, IMO.

[qazplm]

4. I dont think you have to be a xenophobe

to support the idea that the Leader of America be a natural born citizen...now I would give up the requirement that that person have to actually be born on US soil, but yes I think it reasonable to want the president to be someone who was born and grew up in America.

[GiovanniC]

5. You Make This Much Sense:

ZERO.

Want to have another go at it?

[dsc]

12. He could have been more precise

but I think his point was that people like Granholm who lived their childhoods in the US should be permitted to run but those like Swartzeneger, who didn't, shouldn't be permitted to run. Jerry Springer is also banned as he was born to US parents in England or Germany.

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. If Jerry Springers parents were both US citizens, then so is he

....Regardless of where he was born. My grandfather was born in Hong Kong (to American parents) but that didn't make him Chinese.

[dsc]

30. but he wasn't born here

and that is what counts.

[Yupster]

3. Kill the clause, but

put in a 12 year enabling time so everyone knows it's not changed to benefit any one person.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Yes. Why not the best?

Why inhibit the opportunity to choose the best possible candidate? What does being "a natural born citizen" have to do with the quality of a candidate? Does being born here confer some genetic superiority over the lesser folk who happened to be born somewhere else?

[GiovanniC]

7. Exactly

Jennifer Granholm, the governor of my state (Michigan) is great -- but she was born over the border in Canada.

She's lived in the United States almost her whole life. She is America. But she can't run for President (or Vice President), because she wasn't born here. What difference does it make if someone is born in Detroit or Windsor? Is there something magical about the soil of America that makes you more qualified to be president than someone born a couple miles away, at the other end of a bridge?

[LearnedHand]

8. Not just NO, but HELL, NO!!!

There's a really solid reason the founders wrote this into the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Not counting all the scary reasons I can think of to NOT change this provision, they probably imagined situations even WE cannot imagine if a foreign national could run for president.

No, no, no, NO! We have enough natural-born citizens who are qualified; we DO NOT NEED TO OUTSOURCE OUR PRESIDENCY!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Wouldn't that be called "insourcing"?

And, by the look of the two main candidates running this time, we could use an injection of someone like Nelson Mandela or Zapatero.

[LearnedHand]

13. (Har!) Yeah, technically I guess it would!

But (re: the rest of your post), you need to see these guys in action (Kerry/Edwards). I saw them last evening in Albuquerque, and I realized HOW MUCH the media are portraying Kerry as a dullard. He's AMAZING, and he has some of Clinton's gift at connecting with the crowds.

[GiovanniC]

14. Do You Mean To Try To Tell Me

That if we allowed a foreign national to become our president, they might serve the interest of their country first, instead of the United States?

For example, if someone from Saudi Arabia became president (which would go over real well with the redneck crowd), you think that we would have a president who was basically owned by the Saudis and would look to their best interests first? Even at a cost of American lives?

Man, it's hard to imagine living in a country like that.

[JohnLocke]

25. Best. Post. Ever.

[Jack_DeLeon]

34. ROFL exactly...

There are plenty of American born citizens who apparently have no problems with selling out thier home country.

You dont need to be born abroad to betray the United States.

[Dookus]

16. the reason the founders did that

was xenophobic.

I see no reason why we should consider an immigrant who has lived here for decades less capable of doing the job than say, the current dolt doing it.

[Freya]

20. They also wrote in to the constitution

"No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due. "

Believe it or not the founders were NOT gods and many of them WERE bigots. It did not extend simply to race either. The founders were NOT flawless and I always find it amusing to see people bring up what they did in the past as a way to prevent change - as if their time and situation will always be applicable to us, and as if they were always right.

"Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. "

Wow. Non-whites and indians considered 3/5ths a person. Damn that 14th amendment. Didn't those fools realize the founders were smarter and saw situations WE can not even imagine? Imagine if those foreign indians or blacks could be full persons. Why, it's as unthinkable as non native-born running for president. <end sarcasm>

[dsc]

10. There was a very valid reason for the clause

when the Constitution was written. England had rulers imposed on it from Holland and Germany and the fear that could happen here wasn't unreasonable. But that era is long gone. While I would hate to see an amendment for a specific person or people, I do think the amendment would be a good thing.

[UrbScotty]

26. "But that era is long gone" - DARN RIGHT!

That clause has no use today.

[Manix]

11. Yesss!!! The time has come to change this outdated law.

Physical place of birth means absolutely nothing.

[bigbillhaywood]

15. Looks like the America-firster conservative Dems are out in force.

[Dookus]

17. I honestly think

that if Arnold wasn't in the equation, people would vote differently. It's sad that an important policy like this should be personalized against one person.

The fact is, it's a xenophobic, outdated requirement. For every Arnold, there's a Granholm or Albright. People who devote their lives to public service should be judged on that service, not the place of their birth.

[bigbillhaywood]

18. You had me until you mentioned Albright. nt

[bigbillhaywood]

19. The results of this poll are pretty depressing. nt

[lanparty]

21. The president can only have ONE HOME!!!!!

When a president acts, he shouldn't think about his family "back home". How it will effect his relatives that he grew up with in Austria or Australia or WHEREVER. His only motivation should be protecting the American people.

Jennifer Granholm can still run for Senate or Congressman. I daresay that she would do a great job at either. The idea that we can't find qualified AMERICANS to do the job of president is ridiculous.

[Freya]

23. Hmmm....

"When a president acts, he shouldn't think about his family "back home". How it will effect his relatives that he grew up with in Austria or Australia or WHEREVER. His only motivation should be protecting the American people."

What does this remind me off? Oh yea. Fuck the Iraqis. That oil is ours. Dead kids? Fuck em. I've got no concern for anyone but US.

Sorry, when the actions of your nation start effecting other parts of the world you DAMN well better be thinking about other nations interests. It's this attitude that has us in Iraq right now.

"The idea that we can't find qualified AMERICANS to do the job of president is ridiculous."

Hate to tell you this but anyone who is a citizen - born here or not - IS an american.

[JohnLocke]

22. Yes, but raise the residency requirement to 30y for foreign-born people.

[atre]

24. Ahnold

One of the most conservative people I know (someone waay out there on the political scale) is convinced that Ah-nold will be the anti-Christ.

Not really germane to this thread, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[AntiCoup2K4]

28. Impossible

Schwarzenegger is way more than 6 letters :evilgrin:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Do away with that clause and a corporation could be elected President

based on the Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company decision.

[UrbScotty]

32. Americans couldn't POSSIBLY be stupid enough to do that!

I mean, how stupid would Americans have to be to elect a corporation as President do the United States? It's just impossib-

Okay, maybe not.

But still, even if that ruling would allow for corporations to run for President, I think you still have to sign certain documents dfor the FEC and state election officials to get on the ballot. And frankly, I haven't seen a corporate signature.

Of course, you can write-in the name of a corporation, but a corporation would have to be EXTREMELY lucky to win by write-in vote.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. Funny, in 2000, I thought Americans couldn't POSSIBLY be stupid enough

to elect Bush.

[ibegurpard]

31. Maybe some day

but not right now. The only reason this is being floated is to groom Arnold Schwarzenneger for a Presidential candidate. I would wait until some time in the future and see how the partisan climate is at that time.

[question everything]

33. No. Let's limit the number of amendments to the Constitution

at least, this is the reason why many pugs are going to vote NO on the current request to ban same sex marriage.

[Cat Atomic]

35. Frankly, I'm sick of watching Republicans rewrite the Constitution

to suit their political issue du jour. They're willing to tamper with the Constitution simply to lay the ground work for a Schwarzeneggar presidential run. They'll add an ammendment on gay marriage just to have a convenient election year wedge issue.

It's absolutely disgusting, and insulting.

Keep that clause in.

[Liberal Classic]

38. Life Imitates Art

From Demolition Man, with Wesley Snipes, Sly Stallone, and Sandra Bullock:

Stallone: "Hold it! The Schwarzenegger Library?"
Bullock: "Yes, the Schwarzenegger Presidential Library. Wasn't he an actor?"
Stallone: "Stop! He was President?"
Bullock: "Yes. Even though he was not born in this country, his popularity at the time caused the 61st Amendment…"