Why Do Common, Ordinary People Vote Republican???

[ItsMyParty]

Why do so many ordinary, common, average, everyday, salt of the earth, basic, middle class, people like us vote Republican?? What do they expect to get from the Republican Party? What do they expect to have protected for them from the Republican party?? What kind of life do they feel they will get from the Republican Party??

Prime Example (dear to my lineage): Under Reagan a death blow was dealt to the American farmer. Farms owned for 100-125 years by families were lost to corporate farms who raped the "farm subsidies" designed to keep family farms in business. Farmers committed sucicide and gentle people went into town and killed bankers (it is not in the DNA of these gentle folks--but they were pushed there.)
They were the quiet definition of "real men" and they were pushed to an edge that stripped them of the manhood of protecting their families that was their honor code). It should have been a pitch-fork waving revolution. But it was not. To this day, these folk and the small town folk around them proudly march to the voting booth and cast their votes REPUBLICAN....to them Bush is God.

Under Papa Bush the last semblance of blue collar, well paid factory workers, were dealt a death blow. But so many of these same people (mostly union) proudly marched to the polls to defend their guns (liberals will take them all away, you know); or to stop abortion (which most of them have not had to face and those that do, want it for their kin). And they voted REPUBLICAN.

And all of them never had life so good as under the best economy this nation has ever had under Clinton.

Figure this out and we win in a landslide. I'm talking REALLY figuring this all out and not some "theory" or "the way it should be" thinking. If you can figure out a way to get to these people, the Dem Party should cut you a check for a billion bucks. I'm thinking that in about 15 years they are going to be so lacking in good jobs, so short of health care, and so "drafted" and burying their dead, that they might just think about voting diffenently (but then there comes the problem of us offering anything diffent---and that's a whole other discussion.................). Our #1 thinking should be "why are these ordinary, suffering under the Republicans people voting in droves for these abusers??".

[salinen]

1. The republican party would be

doomed without a seriously stupid population.

[DaveSZ]

3. Fear

The only way they are elected is on racism, fear of gays, terrorists, etc, and by claiming to be against abortion whilst appointing over twice as many pro-abortion SC justices as their opposition.

Crafty.


Also, many democrats are spineless, and I get upset with them too.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

55. Jim McDermott in F911

Jim McDermott really said it best in Fahrenheit 911:

"You can make poeple do anything when they're afraid."

[ItsMyParty]

5. salinen-and you just said what I know

Of course. But what do we do to get to these ignorant fools (sorry, but they are ignornant fools). It's one thing to dismiss them as ignornant like I have so often done. And then there's the problem of how we can manipulate their ignorance. That isn't a horrible, bad thing. It's saving someone despite themselves and we have to figure out how to save these morons despite their stupidity.

[Andromeda]

75. Dean said it best:

guns, God and gays.

There is a culture gap in this country and I don't see any simple solutions to that problem.

[Pattib]

90. Agreed. I'd also add abortion to the equation also.

At least where I live in North Florida. I work with many different economic classes of people in the hospital. From doctors to nurses, nursing assistants and custodial staff. Many say they don't like Bush but the abortion issue keeps them from voting Democratic.

Remember the faux tax rebate in 2001? A lot of the lower income workers in the hospital could not understand why they didn't get a refund. I explained to them that they received earned income tax credit and they said, so? They don't see the connection between the Repukes and any social program cuts. I live in a county where 65% of the kids are on free or reduced priced lunches...many people here are on some form of government assistance, yet they think the Republicans are good for them due to "morals", ie. God and Country.

It kills me when I read the Freepers yapping about Dems feeding off the government trough. Come to my neck of the woods, the people using government assistance are repubs. Eighty-seven percent of the people in my county voted republican in the last election. Funny thing is that there are more registered Democrats than Republicans, by about a thousdand. End of rant. Sorry to be so long but it really irritates me that people are so blind. FYI, I am not against government assistance, I am just floored that the repukes think the only ones on assistance are Democrats.

[leftyandproud]

26. don't look at everything through a class prism..

and you will find the answer..

believe it or not, class..rich vs poor is WAY DOWN on the priority list of millions of people. They consider foreign policy and social policy more important than whether businessmen get their taxes raised

[Trillo]

29. Concentration of capital in the hands of a few

is one of the historical reasons civilizations fail.

[leftyandproud]

48. only when...

that concentration is in the hands of politicians..

when government has absolute power...it demands more, and the economy collapses..

see soviet russia...ancient rome, etc

[Trillo]

51. Today it is, imo, impossible to distinguish where the corporations

end and the government begins. Or where the government ends and the corporations begin.

Today, the CEO is king, both financially and authoritatively within their localized pyramid, with GW Bush as head CEO over the whole Executive Branch.

I believe the stats, when I've looked at them in the past, indicate that there is "an obscene concentration of capital in the hands of a few."

The corporations own all the downtown glass towers. It's not hard to tell where the wealth is, just open the eyes and look around.

edit: typos

[leftyandproud]

56. the REAL problem..

is not corporate power or profits...It is that our politicians can be BOUGHT by corporations. If the politicians (on BOTH sides) couldn't be bought/bribed, many of our problems would go away.

[tabasco]

87. Can you give an example ...

of a society in which wealth was concentrated in a group that was not the rulers or de facto rulers? Serious question.

[dumpster_baby]

116. class issues not considered by masses because the public debate is...

Class issues not considered by masses because the public debate is created by the upper classes. THEY decide what goes on the agenda. What is considered an important issues comes from the TOP, not from the BOTTOM. Millions of people do not consider class an important issue because the media is controlled by the TOP. You really think they are going to cut their own throats?

Mass media is Top Down, not Bottom Up. Mass media creates the public debate. Do the math....

[Blue Wally]

76. And you advocate???

A really good liberal method like Literacy Tests to make sure the voters aren't stupid??

[leftofthedial]

2. stupidity, ignorance, jingoism

and they've fallen for the "family values, morality, god and flag" bullshit propaganda spewed by the criminals running the GOP and the corporate media.

[bullimiami]

4. "stupidity, ignorance, jingoism" plus

Wealthy hateful elitism, racism, twisted fundamentalism.

[ItsMyParty]

14. bull --amen and that's what drive me insane

they are getting away with it. And though this sounds awful, it's so true---we have to manipulate these same dumb bastards in order to save these dumb bastards. Don't recoil. I'm serious. We are letting the republicans do it to the destruction of these dumb twits. We seriously need to be as awful as them and as deceitful as them in order to save them. It might be promising them free beer for a year to get them to vote Deml; but goddamn it (sorry for my language), if that's what it takes to save their stupid hides, then that's that we need to do. (and them comes the whole reservation I have whether or not our Dems will help the people if elected---but like I said, that's a whole other discussion--------god damn I'm getting sick of polticians).

[rniel]

93. n/m

repost below

[rniel]

95. .

.

[Cassandra]

6. Read Thomas Frank's book...

"What's the matter with Kansas?". He talks about the same issues with the same details. I'm about a third of the way through; it's very good.

[Gothic Sponge]

30. Yes, Everyone should get Thomas Frank's book!

He was also on Bill Moyers NOW this week..(not sure if it was a repeat)

[dumpster_baby]

117. thomas frank also has some essays online linked from his website

http://www.tcfrank.com

[donhakman]

7. An excellent discussion of this

on Moyer's NOW

The author of a new book on this subject showed how and why people vote against their best interests.

[Flubadubya]

8. Excellent question....

Please allow me to direct you to some information that may of use to you:

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/culturewars.html

I watched PBS' NOW with Bill Moyer night before last and he interviewed Thomas Frank, who wrote the book What is the Matter with Kansas. The interview was quite enlightening, and I suspect the book is even more so.

It's all a big fraud based on percieved "values". Watch for that word in the run-up to the election... you will hear it so often you will get sick of it.

Anyway, hope this helps. :hi: :)

[maxanne]

9. check out the book

"What's the Matter with Kansas," by Thomas Frank. He explains why. They've been whipped into a frenzy about morality - abortion, homosexuals, and patriotism. When the bastards tell them they love the small businessman, and the family farmer, they fall for it. They sure aren't getting exposed to the truth in the corporate media.

[SammyWinstonJack]

83. Ah,

"They've been whipped into a frenzy about morality - abortion, homosexuals, and patriotism."

Really can't do much with self serving, self absorbed and totally self righteous people. They either can't or won't see the bigger picture which makes it easy to manipulate them.

[Sporadicus]

10. Among Poor Whites - Especially in the South

democrats are seen as 'wimps,' as opposed to 'macho' characters like * :puke:

[ItsMyParty]

21. labor---I hear you....I didn't want to get "regional" but you have

said it. I've lived there and have relatives living in the South. On one hand I'd like to ravage these people; but on the other I know that they are being lead by forces that they should rise up against and snuff out but have so much propaganda fed to them that even the college educated cannot see the light. They are good people. But the most evil bastards on the face of the earth (the Tv preachers and the right wing preachers who are counting their diamonds and race horses)have lead these poor dopes into voting for those who want them to become the American answer to the Central/South American peon.

[Political_Junkie]

11. How about a simpler explanation

Loyalty, small town America is very big on being loyal. Up here people root for the Red Sox every year, no matter what, and every year they get their hearts broke.

[Piperay]

12. The repukes have convinced them that they too

could get rich if only it wasn't for all those minorities, women, Gays, environmentalists and welfare queens that suck up the money that should be theirs, I'm serious. :-(

[NightOwwl]

13. Some still hold on

to the old mantra of Republican=Fiscal Responsiblity/Democrat=Tax and Spend. I think a lot of them will be sitting out the election this time around.

[rwheeler31]

15. HeadPhones

Think about what these people have to listen to when they are doing these repetitive jobs. It is the same as when you had to take economics it made no sense so you just fed back what the teacher said in order to pass the class.

[ItsMyParty]

25. rwheeler---you win the prize----I could have never in my rambling

post have said it better than you just did. It is Econ 101; or Psych 101 or Anything 101-----feed back what you are expected to say. I remember being in a Bible Class back in the midwest during the Reagan era. I'm surprised they didn't build a funeral pyre and BBQ me on the back lawn (and this was mainstream, not right wing, Christianity). These farmers were losing not only THEIR lives but the stwardship that generations passed down to them. But when I pointed to who was killing what their forefathers had built, they positively hated me. They chose to love the executioner. They had been brainwashed for so long that thinking and reasoning was a foreign and hated concept.

[calico1]

16. People like us who vote

Republican are almost always very misinformed and uneducated about the issues. Do you ever watch that progrm on C-Span (forgot the name) where people call in and they have a Democrat, Republican or "other" number? I have found that almost all the people that call on the Republican line don't know what they are talking about. They are totally are ignorant of the facts or they just don't want to know the facts. On the other hand, most of the people who call on the Democratic line quote articles they have read in the major news sourcs, know about different authors and books they have written, etc. They sound more educated about the facts. I really don't know how to explain it all. I know a guy at work who I like dearly. He is a hardline, wingnut Bush lover, yet he couldn't tell you exactly why he likes him. When he does say stuff, you can tell its just stuff he has read or heard from Rush, not by doing his own research. People who are more willing to educate themselves and be more concerned about more that just what affects them directly and who think about the future and not just now, tend to be Democratic. That is what I have found in my experience.

[Warpy]

17. Two reasons, really

They see civility going down the toilet and are constantly offended by excesses of sex and violence in the media. They vote for the party that mouths "family values," although that party hasn't done a damned thing about them.

They also have taken a financial beating over the past 30 years, thanks to lowered wages and higher taxes. Even though the GOP were the ones responsible for jacking up their taxes in the first place, plus refusing to enforce labor laws and making it impossible to unionize, the GOP offered the illusion of a tax cut, and they bought it. The Democrats haven't offered them anything for years except the business as usual that has been killing them financially.

That's why ordinary hardworking people vote GOP. The question is what the Democrats are going to do about it once Bush is gone.

[bread_and_roses]

40. Amen, brother

I am going to quote you in my post, you said it in that last parapgraph.

[BillZBubb]

49. Huh?

Under Clinton real wages rose for the first time in decades. The Clinton economy really did raise all boats. Don't tell me the Democrats hadn't offered anything, that's just not so.

Unfortunately, the fools who benefitted from it turned around and voted for a Repug imbecile because "it didn't matter who was president, the economy would keep doing well."

[TrogL]

18. Because they think Republicans are people like them

They don't understand that the Republican party has changed in the last 10 years.

They also vote conservative "fambly values" and ignore the rest of the stuff they don't have time or inclination to understand.

[Endangered Specie]

19. Bush is many ways like the common man...

uneducated, unenlightened, uncaring

[mainer]

20. Because they always have, and their fathers always did

My dad, all his life, bought Chevrolets. From the time he was a young man till the last car he bought, it was always a Chevy, even though the last few cars gave him endless trouble, even though one of those lemons was a Corvair, which almost killed him. Despite that it never occurred to him, once, to buy anything else. It was brand loyalty, and once that sets in, almost nothing will convince a fella to switch.

My dad is like a lot of Republicans. Nothing will make them switch.

[theboss]

114. Well, that's patently untrue

In case you haven't noticed, the South was solidly Democrat until 1968 and was even mostly Democrat until the 80s. Now, it is nearly universally Republican. So your theory is clearly wrong.

[Doctor_J]

22. read Bush On The Couch

it's all in there. Mostly fear, promoted by (and, in the case of 9/11, caused by) them.

[Eric J in MN]

23. The "pro-life" issue (nt)

nt

[Liberal Classic]

24. Some of the answer is contained in the reponses to this tread

Could be be elitism? Calling people unenlightened and uncaring, racist, hateful, and stupid isn't going to win any converts.

[ItsMyParty]

28. Liberal--I've heard that before....but have you ever tuned in to what

they call us??? Do you see what I mean?? We are bleeding heart liberals who try to make everyone a "welfare queen" and would want to live off the government and want everyone to not work, blah, blah. It works both ways. And for us to honor their ingornance is to promote it. Do they honor our libralism??---thus, do they promote it. Not on your life. It's time to confront their stupidity (and it isn't a matter of different political tastes---it is outright ignorance because they have no future but the gutter under the republicans who so blatantly use them).

[Liberal Classic]

33. So, two wrongs make a right?

And for us to honor their ingornance is to promote it.

Eh?

It's time to confront their stupidity

What was I saying? I lost my train of thought.

and it isn't a matter of different political tastes---it is outright ignorance...

Ah yes. Thanks for reminding me.

"Hey you stupid, evil redneck! You're votings against your own economic interest!"

That's the ticket.

:eyes:

[salinen]

31. Well

If we coddled them, would they feel welcome? Or would they run away in fear like they had accidentally entered a Museum?

[Liberal Classic]

34. Hug a Pubbie

We might find that we're human after all.

:hug:

[ItsMyParty]

35. Liberal and Salinen---this is where I see "Edwards"

If we ever had a prayer in getting through, this is the guy (and I don't know if Kerry fully appreciates the power here). We need to get to these people and gently sway them. They will NEVER except that they are thinking assbackwards. They hate Democrats to the core. But then there is the trial lawyer who has to take the same group of people and convince them to vote his way. In Edwards we have a key---a key we haven't had for years (and that includes Clinton). They would have killed him as a presidential candidate; but as Mr. #2, I think this is the guy who can make rural America and blue collar America THINK (and that is a modern day miracle). Don't underestimate our baby faced assasin.

[Kipepeo]

52. I think it's complicated but I don't discount any of these things

being a part of the equation.

My family, for the most part, is Southern Baptist Conservative Fundie Republican. I wouldn't call them *all* of those things but each of those things play into why they vote Repuke. For example, my grandmother is not uncaring, but the people who tell her how to vote (her preacher and the Limbaughs of the world) are. My aunt...well, she's a right hard person to say anything nice about. I'll stop there. :P

My grandmother is going to vote for Bush because, in her words, "he's a church going man and Kerry wants gays to get married." She, like many in my family, get their marching orders straight from their preachers and right wing hate radio. The right wing plays on and enhances my grandmother's prejudices: racism, homophobia, sexism...they WANT her, as a voter, to have these fears/prejudices and to vote based on them. In the 2000 election my aunt said she was voting for Bush b/c Gore "wants to give everything to black people and he's for killing babies." THAT is the type of voter they want to court, without actually saying they're looking for racists, homophobes or sexists. Everything is coded. "Values," Reagan's made up "welfare queen," "Church going," fighting affirmative action and women's right to choose and supporting the FMA....these are all tactics that play on (and I think help to create) people's fears/prejudices.

I think the 2 big reasons people like my family vote for Repubs is because:

1) They are *kept* ignorant in this country. You have to really seek out what's going on to stay informed. They can't turn on the news and expect to see anything other than the latest celebrity court case or a 'special report' on why your car is like a balloon. The political news they get is from crap like Limbaugh, and completely bogus email forwards from freepers...which misinforms people and stokes their hatred of democrats.

2) The Republicans make their campaigns about coded "values" which are really just a way to play on and stoke people's prejudices and fears and divisiveness. Like how they are using the Federal Marriage Amendment this year....

Just my two cents.

[jeffrey_X]

27. because it doesn't require much thought.

There is a lot of ugliness in the world we live in and some people choose to ignore it....thus they vote republican.

[olddem43]

32. It's amazing - I know two strong union people who -

vote republican. Both get all their info from Rush Limpbag and believe and repeat everything he says. I tell them that a union member voting Repug is like an atheist priest. The Repugs throw out so many lies and BS that it's hard for them to figure it out. I am still amazed that they have made the word "liberal" a pejorative.

[Blue Wally]

77. Why is it amazing??

We once owned these people and just pissed their votes away over the last thirty-two years. We lost them and the rhetoric on this board won't bring them back. John Edwards resonates with them and could be the key to bringing them back. Kerry would be lost dealing with them. He doesn't understand their culture.

[olddem43]

92. amazing in that people could vote against their own interests.

But you are right. Hope that Edwards can connect. He is really good.

[opihimoimoi]

36. The misled sheep are taught to OBEY

and this they do...... they OBEY......

[Lone_Wolf]

37. Jingoism, racism, fear, and/or religious fundamentalism

As Noam Chomsky says, "These are the ways of appealing to people if you're trying to organize a mass base of support for policies that are really meant to crush them."

[meow2u3]

38. They're taken in by the scam better known as....

...the "culture war." Right-wing Repukes con voters into voting against their best interests by pandering to their religious convictions, especially against abortion or gun control, they divert attention from the fact that all the Repukes want from them is to steal their hard-earned livelihoods, much the same way fundie preachers flimflam their followers.

[sundancekid]

45. amen! so well said, fed, and straight to the nutshell ...

... the repugs appeal (read: shame them) to their higher moral selves and not just our definitions of "ignorant, stupid etc" -- exact same fundie preachers "appeal" ...

IMHO, we Dems need to invest our rhetoric of equal rights into showing how OUR values should appeal to the better angels in us.

[peacetalksforall]

39. A caller to Washington Journal said

the Republican Party really knows how to appeal to their base - white trash.

I think it's kind of mean, because even though the people who call in supporting Bush repeat the most ridiculous lies and bigoted words imaginable, they may not be white trash.

I know there is a difference between lying and repeating a lie...it seems they just don't hear Falwell, Bennett, Limbaugh, Hannity, Robertson and the others correctly. They mix up history because the version they hear is what they want it to be.

Just like me.

[Chili]

41. but...

...many of them ARE motivated by bigotry: racial bigotry, religious bigotry, and homophobia. And, most of all, fear. Fear that somewhere there's somebody getting something THEY ought to get, and the Democrats are just giving away their hard-earned tax dollars, and they're not seeing any of it. It takes a very insecure person to seriously dwell on what some poor black people 1500 miles away are "getting" that they're not. Their worldview is 180 degrees from most people who live in urban areas of any color, which is where the highest concentration of Democrats live, in urban areas. And yes, that elitism - many of them are, if not uneducated, certainly uninformed, and they hate that they can't grasp the complexities of taxes and policies... so only the simplest language gets through to them. Everybody hates feeling stupid, and they think they're being talked down to when the rest of us say "we know what's best for you, what is WRONG with you?"

I don't think there's an answer to this. They have, really, been brainwashed by their pastors, or by the media, or by both, both sources that feed their fear and bigotry every day of their lives. I hate to say it, but it might be a hopeless proposition. You can't force a bigot to change. They have to have some life-changing experience take place that changes their minds. It happens to individuals, but just telling them what to think isn't ever going to work.

[Kat45]

42. They are not ALL stupid!

Yes, some are. Others are so busy working, not making enough money, trying to keep afloat, that they just don't have the time to look into things. And yes, many also don't have the inclination. A lot of folks have no interest in politics, think "they're all the same." Maybe they listen to talk radio (and we all know what that does); maybe they find out about things just by hearing people talking about them. But event those who watch the news are getting right-wing talking points, and they're thinking they're hearing the truth because the news is supposed to be objective and reporting the facts. Voila--they're misinformed!

I have friends who are intelligent people, college graduates, and have no interest at all in politics. It just doesn't interest them. I'm not sure if they don't make the connection between politics and their lives, or what. Meanwhile, members of my family (older generation) have always voted republican, don't trust democrats at all. These are working class people, good people, not stupid people. I'm still trying to figure out why they do this. If I ever find out, I'll certianly let you know.

[Chili]

47. that's the group not in the "many"

"Yes, some are. Others are so busy working, not making enough money, trying to keep afloat, that they just don't have the time to look into things. And yes, many also don't have the inclination. A lot of folks have no interest in politics, think "they're all the same."

Yes, don't have the time. I'll bet many fall into this category. There are also those who I like to think of as fiscal Republicans who are NOT bigoted at all, but who are determined to protect their own interests. That doesn't mean they despise the poor, but it does mean that they don't agree with us on how to best solve social issues. In the worst case, they don't care about them at all. Anybody's guess as to what that breakdown is, percentage-wise.

[bread_and_roses]

43. Many are afraid for their jobs...

...and think voting Republican will help save them. Yes, I know, I know! But I have talked to any number of Republican blue-collars and low-level white collars who think that Dems will tax business higher and thus drive more off-shore. They know the Republicans arn't stopping this but think that Rebublican tax policies will keep more business here, or at least delay the inevitable.

They also think the Canadians hate National Health Care and that drug companies will stop making new medications if their profits are reduced at all.

And what do the Dems really offer these people? They voted for NAFTA (something that comes up a lot), hell, they blame Clinton for NAFTA and he's a Dem.

Warpy above nailed a lot of it:
"They also have taken a financial beating over the past 30 years, thanks to lowered wages and higher taxes. Even though the GOP were the ones responsible for jacking up their taxes in the first place, plus refusing to enforce labor laws and making it impossible to unionize, the GOP offered the illusion of a tax cut, and they bought it. The Democrats haven't offered them anything for years except the business as usual that has been killing them financially."

And they are afraid that any change will make things worse for them, not better.

[troublemaker]

44. R - A - C - E (and religion) n/t

[lottie244]

82. Racism and fear...the unholy pair. Read America's New Apartheid

really thought-provoking.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/98/98_prisons_1.html

There are lots of good media links at Buzzflash.com. I found this there. Scroll to bottom of the page.

[kayell]

46. Authority feels safe. There is great reassurance in being able to place

all your trust in some higher power, whether it is your god, your president or your guru. Dealing with the complexities of life can be very frustrating, especially if you can not be sure that your decisions will be "right". Giving up control of some descisions (what you believe morally, ethically, politically) can be very comfortable, since you no longer have to deal with ambiguity. Someone else "wiser" tells you what is right, and all they ask is that you place all your trust in them.

Republicans are masters of offering to do away with ambiguity. They offer absolute black/white thinking. No need to anguish, just place your trust in them. Apparently, this looks like a great deal to many people.

[fortyfeetunder]

50. Sheeple believing the ruse of "less government", etc.

Sheeple starting believig Reagan's promise of less government. And less government means fewer taxes.

And we had to get rid of welfare to keep those career welfare queens from siphoning off those funds.

We need fewer corrupt unions because they don't have workers' best interest at heart.

We need less environmental and safety regulations to keep companies from being restricted in operating their businesses.

We don't need socialized medical care, because what we've got is good enough.

We need to bring God back into our lives, for He is for what the Constitution is made from

We don't need gun control to restrict our 2nd amendment rights

We need to protect the unborn children in this country

yadda yadda yadda.

So these are hot button issues, for which individuals with a lack of critical thinking skills (which I suspect is prevalent among Murkans) will think Republicans will support them in these ill-conceived notions.

[Zen]

53. Fear and ignorance - family raised them to be that way...

Most folks I know who are political got their influence from their parents - dominant men are more likely to turn out Republicans IMHO - just a crazy theory.

[Laurie_MD]

54. I have to live with one...

I honestly can't figure it out.

My hubby is a convinced "country boy" that Democrat's and frankly, ANY non-republican party, are just out to take away his guns.

His Father's livelyhood is owning a gun shop. So why are they NOT more educated about "all" of it?

They feel that there should be NO restrictions on gun ownership and that there is too much already.

He doesn't care about any of the other issues it seems. As long as they keep their guns.

I don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zen]

57. That gun thing is BIZARRE!!

Guy at work is a gun nut. I tell him "Kerry is a hunter and sportsman", he says, "yeah, but he's planning to take away my guns". I roll my eyes. He says "I hate Bush, I'm gonna vote for Nader", I say "that may put Bush back in office", then he reiterats his displeasure with "liberal" Kerry and that he will take his guns. I say "your hopeless"!

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to DU!!! :hi:

[JayS]

67. The "hunter and sportsman" stuff doesn't fool many people but...

...you might point to some sections of the Patriot Act that are not friendly to gun owners.

[Mallove Fan 71]

58. Misguided Republicanism

We already know why. The GOP has studied Manipulation 101 and has taken control of the airwaves. No mystery there, IMHO. The billion dollar question is, how do you or I deprogram a working class or middle class republican?

My best friend is a great case study; a southern, small-town, deer-hunting republican with an authoritarian upbringing who has swallowed their agenda-bait. He is moderately religious, and spews out the typical re-puke garbage whenever confronted with the very idea that Bush* is an outright liar.

He lives some distance from me and so I'm reduced to preaching to him about once a week over the phone.

I have considered your question at great length because I'm about to turn my back on a 28-year relationship, so strong is my disdain for his political tastes, which do not at all reflect his best interests or his "power to the people" belief system.

His political views are bound to his faith, and to challenge one adds insult to the other. He will always respond to the argument that Bush* is bad in the exact same way that he responds to my questioning his faith. He turns his mind away from it. Fear of being unpatriotic or "unfaithful" shuts his thinking brain down and drives him back into his safety zone.

So, how do you cure misplaced republicanism without shattering faith along with it?

My hunch is this: If I constantly remind him that the core of the GOP are professional liars—just like the over-the-top, evangelical preachers on TV we've lauged about time and again—he may see the light before November. If I take every opportunity to warn him that his religion is being used to make a fool out of him, he may get angry enough to look into it. If I tell him that they are stabbing him and his blue-collar hunting buddies in the back while they stand and smugly evoke God's blessings, maybe he will finally get motivated to look into the background of these criminals and see them for what they really are: The Enemy.

Then, let the stench of the Plame indictments and other scandals rise high enough to linger in the air night and day, so that he can't hide from the truth. And maybe, just maybe, we'll win one for our side.

[Karenina]

101. Take him to see

(kicking and screaming if necessary) Farenheit 911. ;-)

[AP]

59. Race, religion, and masculinity (guns). It's the wedge issues.

They keep people from realizing which direction the wealth and power flows when Republicans are in office.

[DjTj]

60. Guns, God, and Gays...

...Howard Dean already told us this in the primaries...

and here it takes Edwards people to point this out...

[JayS]

81. If our candidates would look into the deeper issues behind...

...that statement as Dean started to do then I for one would feel a lot better about our prospects of winning.

[JDPriestly]

66. Why people vote Republican when it is against their interest

Since Reagan, especially, Americans are living in a fantasy belief that by voting Republican, they can join the upper class. I know several people who are suffering economically -- unemployed, one even living on the streets, some with children -- but they talk Republican, believe Republican and vote Republican -- and will not accept welfare assistance. Reagan and the Republican right and to a lesser extent, Clinton, made the poor feel so guilty about being poor Welfare Queens that they deny what they really are. Voting Republican makes them feel like they are better than the people the Republicans look down on and ridicule. It is simply denial about dismal economic reality.

[AP]

70. I know a family of Republicans. They have a family member who has never

worked and it turns out he's a little crazy. All the kids want to start a fund for the kid to pay for his medical care. One member of the family has said, "wait a minute: if we give him money, he will eventually (and probably rapidly) deplete the fund and once that's gone, then he will then have to get public assistance." This one member of the family has simply asked that they talk to a lawyer to make sure that's the case, and that it doesn't make sense to exhaust all public assistance first, and then try to top that off later, rather than get together 250,000 together for this guy to run through first, all the while getting the same exact medical care. He says that this is why they all pay taxes -- to pay for the social safety net that protects the less fortunate and he feels like they'll just be paying taxes twice for the same exact care.

Well, all the other members of the family now refuse to talk to this one member of the family because they can't believe he wants a family member to have to rely on the government. They think it's shameful.

The crazy family member has probably earned almost no taxable income. They're not so ashamed about that (and they shouldn't be) but they'll excommunicate a family member who merely asks if they can check the law and do the math and not pay taxes twice to get the same thing. Interestingly, that one sane family member is the only one who says, "I don't mind paying taxes, so long as it goes to providing a good infrastructure and social safety net" and I believe that one's a Dem. The others are alll Republicans and complain about paying taxes.

It's really fascinating. I guess there's a consistency to not wanting to pay taxes to support a social safety net and then saying families should take care of the family members.

[taxidriver]

61. because lots of common, ordinary people were raised conservatively and are

single issue people...IE FMA, abortion, the iraq war, etc.

[Swamp Rat]

62. Fear

I agree with many of the points made in this thread. Most of the reasons given, though, come under the category of "fear." People can be frightened into thinking that their way of life is threatened in terms of: race, religion, health, security, sexuality, marriage, etc.

Education is the solution, and a truly free press wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[PassingFair]

105. Blind Self Interest

In Moore's book, "Dude, Where's My Country", he goes to great lengths to make the case that the ONLY way to win over a Puke is to appeal to his/her own sense of blatant self interest.
I "vurped" when I read the chapter, but subsequently used the technique to win argument after argument with 'pukes. Find their Achille's Heel, they've all got one. A bi-polar kid, Mom being drained in a Nursinghome, something. Show that cutbacks have HURT THEIR FAMILY. Explain that the *administration is not CONSERVATIVE, but RADICAL. Everyone has caved and admitted that they don't like Bush. Will they vote for Kerry? Doubtful to Impossible. They say "He
s too liberal" without having anything to back up their words. Sickening, but I'm sure planting those little seeds of doubt...

[Swamp Rat]

109. Exactly!

That's my mission in life until November 2nd: plant the seeds of doubt in every repug I meet. You are correct when you say that it is best to appeal to THEIR specific need, situation, interests, etc. It's highly manipulative, but our mission not only serves OUR interests, but it is also altruistic.

[SharonAnn]

63. See Moyers Website for last Friday, July 9th and the interview

with Thomas Franks about his new book "What's the Matter With Kansas?"

It's a great analysis of why people vote against their self-interest.

[Bozita]

86. Here are the links for the audio and video from the show

courtesy of Wonk

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x10420#top

definitely worth the trip.

[gulliver]

64. Bush and Cheney gave up the ordinary person vote, but ...

... no one noticed. They criticized Kerry and Edwards for being millionaires and, therefore, not men of the people. But since Bush and Cheney are both millionaires, and they admit that they think millionaires are not men of the people, aren't they therefore saying they believe that they themselves aren't men of the people?

Sounds like quite an admission to me.

[amjsjc]

65. My experiences canvassing...

I've spent the last two weeks in Oregon canvassing, and in the process I've spoken with a fair number of Republicans. One of the questions I ask them is 'what issues are important to you in the upcoming election' (which is as close as you can come to politely saying why the fuck are you voting for W?) Some of the reasons I've gleamed from the resulting conversations:

A lot of Republicans think the Iraq is actually going well, or (and this is more or less a direct quote) 'don't want to change leaders in the middle of a war.' Interestingly enough concerns about Iraq and the economy are probably the most frequent concerns raised by voters on both sides of the aisle, but those voters can often come to diametrically opposed views on who they should vote for.

A lot of Republicans are just socially conservative-- ie, really care about gay marraige, abortion, having an overtly religious man in the white house, etc)

They like Bush personally. A lot of voters, so far as I can tell, vote based on their gut level reaction to candidates. A lot of people seem to like Bush as a person and think he has good leadership skills.

A lot of Republican voters are also fiscal conservatives who know Bush is a jackass but can't bring themselves to vote for a democrat (these are the 'smart' Republicans...)

And of course a lot of voters are just remarkably uninformed, or have massively black and white worldviews which lend themselves well to Republicanism.

[LibDemAlways]

68. I think it has a lot to do with our

schools doing a poor job of teaching history. If people in this country knew about the reasons for the rise of labor unions or how the Democratic Party fought for Social Security, Medicare, a minimum wage, the G.I. Bill, and Civil and Voting Rights in the face of tough Republican opposition, we wouldn't need to worry so much about ordinary working people voting Republican.

[OnionPatch]

69. Rush!

I think all the listed reasons play into this but Rush, or rather right-wing media domination, (especially radio) is key. In the last decade or so, our airwaves have been so totally polluted with right-wing rhetoric. People who leaned that way even a little on a single issue or so got sucked in. I mean it's just EVERYWHERE; TV, radio, etc. Every dinky radio station in every small town has Rush or a copycat or both. I know a lot of small-town, working-class Republicans and every one repeats this stuff like a mantra. Rush and his copycats have worked very hard to twist every issue around with convoluted logic until it sounds like it makes sense. Then there is no one countering the garbage with common sense for the same people to hear. (And many of them don't read...only listen to the radio or TV.) I blame Dems for taking so long to fight back. We should have had an Air America or better on the radio as soon as Rush's show came on the air. I think the situation will improve as long as the left keeps speaking out and making sure our point of view gets out there. When you put our logic next to theirs, it's no contest. But if it's only their message people hear.....

[drmom]

71. This is why we have to take long term action!

The fact that people will vote against their own best interests because of perceived “values” (most of which don’t directly affect their lives in any way), is exactly why we, as educated liberals, need to play a little dirty. Imagine, if you will, a new Independent candidate in the 2008 presidential election...a right-wing, fundamentalists to attract the far right religious base. A charismatic candidate could certainly convince at least 5% of these right wingers to move away from the republican party. Just the threat that if they don’t vote for the “chosen” candidate, they will burn in hell would be enough for most of these people.

Keep in mind that these people are too stupid to realize that they are throwing away their vote, and would easily vote based on what their pastor tells them. A million or so in seed money could start this phenomena which, I’m sure, will take off once you get a few of those large, non-independent thinking congregations behind the cause. Just think of what a great way this would be to siphon off the righty-rights!

[Yupster]

72. I think I heard this from Clinton

but maybe somewhere else.

Anyway, a good test is to ask people whether they think the 1960's were mostly good for the country or mostly bad.

If they think mostly good, they're probably Democrats. If they think mostly bad, they're probably Republicans.

There's plenty of ammunition for each side.

Anyway, there's a lot more to it than "we're real smart and they're real stupid."

[JSJ]

73. bigotry and greed...

...while it's greed and bigotry on the part of their leaders.

[SeeTheLight]

74. I simply HAVE to comment.

If this were a conservative forum, and the question were "Why do otherwise ordinary people vote Democrat?" would the answers be any different?

Or would they say something that has NOT been said here:

"They disagree with us".

Is it fear that prevents one from even mentioning the possibility that someone else MIGHT be rational, thoughtful, intelligent, AND DISAGREE about politics?

I have no idea if this question has been asked on any Republican or conservative forums. I would not presume to know what the answers would be. But, if you are ENLIGHTENED, then you can tolerate others who disagree, without lashing out in anger and hate, screaming that they have a character, personality, intelligence, mental, emotional, moral, or other fatally serious defect.

But then again, if you really DO think that... Exactly what does that say about how you view your fellow man? Are you saying that disagreement with you is NOT POSSIBLE? Or are you saying that disagreement is NOT ALLOWED?

I am reminded of an aging rock and roller, whose name has long escaped my recollection, who was quoted a long time ago - back in my high school years - who said in reference to concert volume levels... "We have forgotten what it is we believe, so we shout all the louder to reassure ourselves of our message".

So the question remains... Can you accept that those who are not in agreement CAN disagree with you? If not, then how will you EVER convince anyone else you're right? Approaching them with the attitude that you're here to correct their mental, moral, intellectual, personality, or other defect is going to forever sour what YOU think in thier mind. After all, if what you think is not superior in logic, reason, facts, and greatest of all, integrity and virtue, and obvious on it's face, how WILL you win the hearts of those who disagree?

[Blue Wally]

79. Thoughtful post, SeeTheLight

Voters can't see that Republican "raise taxes". What is still resonating with voters is the steeply graduated income tax rates that preceded the Reagan tax cuts. By not adjusting the tax brackets for inflation, Congress allowed inflation (and the growing prevalence of dual income families) to push ordinary Americans into tax rates originally conceived for the obscenely rich.

Remember there are three components to voters: security, economic, and cultural. Depsite a lot of our rhetoric, people are not that bad off economically (or don't think they are) and the other two compenents echo more strongly with them.

[SeeTheLight]

110. Ok, let me turn the tables.... Why vote Democrat?

As I'm following this thread, the question is, why do people vote generally for Republicans?


I'm going to challenge any of you to answer this question, in an honest and straightforward manner...

Why should I vote for Democrats?

I won't want to read how you hate Republicans... I want to hear how you'd tell a reasonable, intelligent, sensible person why he or she should proactively vote for Democrats? Remember, not "because they aren't Republicans", but why Democrats have better ideas and what they are...

[wildeyed]

85. SeeTheLight, I hear what you are saying

but please understand that respect and tolerance aside, I do believe that I am right and they are wrong. I do agree with you that a respectful approach is the better road to follow.

Note that this is an anonymous internet forum. People say things here they would NEVER say in real life. It is also a way for people to blow off steam. Take some of the comments with a grain of salt.

[Zorra]

78. Because they are common and ordinary.

Common: ordinary, usual.

Ordinary: Usual, normal. Of no exceptional quality, average. Synonyms: Average. common, commonplace, plain, run of the mill, unexceptional.

I don't know any Americans like that.

Looks like Kerry is going to win in a humongous landslide.:)

Freepers heads are exploding because Kerry/Edwards is so much better than than Bu$h/Cheney - oh , ick, Bu$h/Cheney, 2 ugly, incompetent buzzards.

Similation of a freepers heade exploding. (Kids, don't try this at home)

[phylny]

80. In my experience

most of the people I know who are voting for Bush fall into two categories: Voter number one, Fundamentalist Christians (I'm Christian, but not fundamentalist) who vote pro-life, anti-hummer (Clinton was immoral, dontchaknow) no matter who the candidate is, and Voter number two, lifelong Republicans who vote for smaller government and less taxes, yet have no idea what the current issues are, don't follow politics, and don't even closely examine Bush's record/actions to see if they have smaller government and OVERALL less taxes.

Voter number one: A friend of mine who is a Baptist unwittingly sent me a picture of Bush cuddling a little girl under the headline that basically consisted of, "Isn't he so compassionate and wonderful?" Voter number two: I had a brief conversation with a guy on our youngest daughter's soccer team, and when I brought up my dislike for Bush, he immediately reverted to, "What was Clinton doing about terrorism? Getting a blow-job!" Those are HIS facts.

The most difficult thing to reconcile with is that with the first voter, nothing you say or do will change his or her mind. You have to literally move on. The second voter may change his or her mind, but will probably not be motivated by ads or debates. It would have to be a person-to-person conversation, or several, where you quietly make your point.

I think, and hope, that the key to winning this election is reaching out to young voters - our oldest daughter is 18 and is eagerly anticipating her first chance to vote, though by absentee ballot - and in encouraging people to vote, period.

What scares me, honestly, is the thought of four more years of this administration. I wish I knew how NOT to let that happen!

[wildeyed]

84. People vote against their self interest

for three reasons that I can see- fear, the inability to question authority and misinformation.

I think Kerry/Edwards are trying to overcome the 'fear' part by projecting a positive, upbeat vision for America. In my experience, people who are afraid to question authority need to be gently led. Trying to bash them over the head with a new vision just scares them away (I know, I've done it). Misinformation can be gently corrected, too. I agree I understand the 'pubs concern, but that I respectfully disagree and then I try to lay our why in a rationale manner.

Yelling at people, calling them ignorant and being generally disrespectful will not bring these folks over to our side. Some people will never be won over, but I believe that many are really good hearted. It is worth the effort to try to talk to them and reach some sort of meeting of the minds. I have many pub friends and family members and feel that I am making good progress with a number of them.

Michael Moore has a helpful chapter about talking to 'pubs in his book "Dude, Where's My Country". Also, there was a good "Ask Auntie Pinko" column about this subject a few week back http://www.democraticunderground.com/auntie/04/141.html.

[TexasSissy]

88. Religion; authoritarian figures.

These are the two main reasons, IMO. The other issues are more complex, so a lot of religious people just vote for the party that pushes religious issues (and the religious leaders tell them to do that). Secondly, a lot of people like patriarchal, authoritarian figures for some reason. The Republicans are more like that than the Democrats. Stronger, less tolerant, tell others what to do, etc. Gives people a sense of comfort, I think.

The Cubans in Florida, for example, are very strongly Republican. Almost 90% historically. But being Republican is against their economic interests. So why would there be that unheard of Republican voting pattern? They are strongly religious, for one thing. They like authoritarian figures, for another. Plus they tend to block-vote. It takes time and knowledge to become intimately familiar with complicated issues. They're busy working manual labor jobs, some of them two or three jobs. So they vote for religion or how someone tells them to, is what I think. Except for those who have more time to become knowledgeable on the issues.

[rniel]

89. Religion

Just throwing out some ideas.

This is why they even have such a stupid issue as gay marriage. Who cares really. It doesn't affect anyone. While the decision to go to war IS doing REAL harm to people. Well homophobic church going poor people do care about things like gay marriage I guess. That's why the republicans are pushing this issue out there like it's actually important.

I guess weather rich or poor religion is definately the republicans find way to exploit to the max just look how many political points they got with issues like abortion, prayer in schools, gay marriage, etc. from the common working people. They are fed by the media that God personally cares about those issues above others like justice, equality and freedom for all.

[agates]

91. Here it is the rugged individualism thing

People in the rural areas here vote republican because of the long standing and deep-seated distrust of government in general and the desire to keep government out of people's lives. Farmers/ranchers don't want to be told what crops to raise, how many cattle they can graze, when and where they can sell their products, etc. However, these same individuals seem to have no problem lining up for farm subsidies. Go figure.

Now that the less intrusive government label doesn't fit, people continue to vote Republican due to tradition and religion. Which came first, the rise in religious fundamentalism or the GOP's ties to it? Or are they two sides to the same coin?

[TWiley]

94. RNC Membership is cheap.

The first requirement is HATE, and the obedience to hate all of the individuals or groups the party does. Greed and selfishness are a must, but those traits come naturally to morally underdeveloped children. Being a republi-KKK-lan may also require some physical exercise. From time to time, you may be called upon to self-righteously strut around with the index finger high in the air while chanting "we are number one!" An IQ of 38 is helpful, but not mandatory.

Would there be fundamentalist churches without a "satan"? Does the "with us or against us" mentality of the RNC sound like rantings of a fundamentalist "lets fight satan" cry for membership? Of course it does.

To be morally corrupt and an accepted part of a group simply by hating. What could be cheaper and simpler than that?

[rniel]

96. Pride

The poor man jumps into the pool and finds he cannot swim even though the water is only 5 feet deep and he could touch bottom. He is about to die and the liberal tells him, just stand straight up and put your feet down and you'll be fine it's only 5' deep. The guy is just drowning yelling I don't need your damn help. You think your better than me because you went to college and learned about swimming pools.

It's an inferiority complex. My brother is a right wing kinda guy and I remember growing up with him he never wanted to be told a better way. If he was digging a hole with his bare hands and you tried to hand him a shovel he would refuse it and keep digging with his hands. He was just so goddamn stubborn about everything. I think Bush is just like this.

[CBHagman]

97. Many useful comments on this thread.

Many of the above posts cover the problem pretty thoroughly.

Here's one more that may or may not have been covered: Vote for the devil you know. I've run into quite a few voters -- intelligent, reasonably well-educated types -- who simply vote for the incumbent congressman they despise because at least they know what they're getting. If the opponent supports unions, that makes them nervous, and they vote for Mr. Incumbent.

I saw this firsthand in South Carolina. Friends and acquaintances complained for years about a particular "do-nothing congressman." (Their words, not mine.) When elections rolled around, I'd ask who they voted for. They'd hem and haw and shamefacedly give the name of the incumbent. When I asked them why they'd voted that way, they would murmur something about being uncertain about union support.

I'm going through this now with a South Carolina friend on the presidential election. She had said she would not vote for Bush, but now she's telling me she's undecided. I'll bet the atmosphere she's facing is Dittohead Heaven -- "Kerry's a liberal! The gays are going to take over! Hillary's going to snip your husband's testicles off!"

Sigh.

Oh, and the South Carolina congressman? He remained in place for decades and died in office.

[donsu]

98. Racism

that's why

[westsidexview]

99. cultural divide

a lot of people who would fit the economic profile to be a democrat actually prefer republicans because they cannot relate to gay issues, ethnic grievences, or reproductive rights. these people see a queer nation parade when they think about democrats. they see a horde of aids-infested misfits who want to put it up their butts. it is such a shame that this nation is rich but only at the expense of making its people poor. ronald reagan and his machiavellian happy horse shit is largely responsible for this. people have been duped out of the american dream via the red herring cultural issues by the hate and fear mongering right.

[One_Life_To_Give]

100. "All politics are local"

To quote Tip O'Neil "All politics are lcoal"

The reasons why people vote one way or another varies from region to region. Just as a "Conservative" in Massachusetts is a "Liberal" in Texas.

But more to your question concerning this November.
Foreign Policy - Specifically a "America First" Foreign Policy

[tom_paine]

102. Why did they vote for the Nazis?

Fear.

Belonging.

Unchecked power.

Feeling superior.

Gullibility.

[Jose Diablo]

103. A better question for democratic party activist to ask

would be, "why do so many Americans not vote"? With this question we can get to the bottom of the question of why people that do vote, most do not vote for their real self-interest. Or do they?

Could it be that most people do not see either party representing their interests. To this point, where was the Democratic party when the unions were being eviscerated? The Democrats AND Republican Congress were busy lining their pockets from the corporations and stealing money from the government coffers. Still are.

I would say, the leaders in both parties better hope the 'common' people never wake-up, because if they do wake-up, they will line-up these so called leaders in front of a wall.

There are 10,000 communities out there filled with people just getting by day to day. Then we have these posturing politicians spouting high sounding words that mean absolutely nothing to addressing the real problems people are facing.

High food costs. High gasoline prices. Housing costs keep going-up because an ever increasing tax needs of local government. Monopolistic corporations gouging on prices, with the government doing nothing except taking the taxes and looking for more. Don't even get me started on gouging in the health care industry. Low job security because both political sides bought into 'free trade'. Makes people wonder who's side this government is on. But I don't wonder, I know both sides are on the side of campaign money.

All these real problems people are facing, yet no politician attempts to address these problems except those politicians that are "unelectable". And why are they unelectable? Because the news media says they are unelectable.

And lastly, the one party that could be for these people is filled with people making high sounding politically correct words and looking down their long narrow noses at the 'common' people. Saying 'common' people are ignorant, bigoted, racists, uneducated and other snotty names while sniffing the air disdainfully like somebody farted in their presence.

And in the meantime, the politicians continue on as before, meet the 'new' boss same as the 'old' boss. Because the politicians KNOW, their real masters are divided so the politicians can do as they please.

Maybe most people do vote their self-interest. Problem is, neither party represents their interests thus most do not vote. Those that do vote are reduced to voting the lesser of two bads.

Compromise, a very political word.

[suegeo]

104. Confusion of Capitalism and Democracy

I think many of the white males who I work with vote Republican because they really believe that free markets = freedom. They think the republicans are better businessmen, and make more money, so therefore the rightwing guys must be smarter than everyone else.

They don't really consider that the business environment is a rigged game. They figure that success in business means someone is smart.

I wonder if they get taught this bullshit while attending business school or in their fraternities.

And what was it that that Italian dictator (Mousolini sp?) said about fascism?

Also some of the guys I work with are just plain scary and need mental health help. One guy said that he thought torture was ok. Another guy laughed at the fact that little kids in Afghanistan eat grass because there is no other food. I think that violence on t.v. has made them numb. I also think some people really enjoy picking on someone weaker than them. In that sense, they have a major character flaw...

[Southsideirish]

106. They have them hooked on the moronic "values" thing - its a real

killer for Democrats - how can we ever combat it?

[Arlington]

107. two reasons

1. They can't conceive of a president or legislators who would tell them out-and-out bald-faced lies.

2. They still labor under the impression that these people are Republicans.

They are mistaken on both counts.

[AirAmFan]

108. They DON'T. Most of them don't vote at all, and many Dem pols are satisfied

with the status quo, IMO. Republicans spend millions to turn out their lower-class dupes, many of whom belong to politically active religious denominations. They elevate people like Ralph Reed, a whiz at turning out the religious right, to high party positions. Many Democratic operations do very little to turn out votes among youth and in poor and minority communities, apparently out of fear of empowering Al Sharptons, Jesse Venturas, and others who don't belong to their club.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMO many Democratic pols would rather lose close general elections half the time than suffer unpredictable career-ending defeats in Democratic primaries, IMO

A SOLID democratic majority is within reach, but many current Democratic politicians do not want it. If the half of the country that does not vote now started showing up at the polls, elected Democratic politicians would look more like them. There would be fewer multi-millionaires, fewer corporate whores, and more thirty-somethings, women, African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans.

Just one election reform -- same-day registration -- has been credited with increasing voter turnout by 3 to 15 percent in the 6 states that have it. But Dem pols apparently fear what happened in one of those states--Minnesota. When lots of new people vote, results are less predictable, and surprise results such as Governor Jesse Ventura become more likely.From the point of view of a career pol, a primary loss is death. It's much better to lose a close general election half the time and serve the machine in some other capacity until the next election.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/articles/Jan01_v3_n1/Jan01_v3_n1_2.cfm

"Get out of the voters' way

Another ugly truth of today's electoral game is that it aggressively puts up barriers to keep workaday people from voting. Here are a few simple remedies:

Make Election Day a holiday. Better yet, make it a week. The general election is now held on Tuesday, a work day, in which most folks have to vote before the sun comes up, rush out on lunch break, or race to pick up the kids at day care, then get to the polls before they close at the end of the day. Come on! If we truly value civic participation, make it easy.

Register when you vote. In the great majority of states, by the time the media and the candidates really turn up the heat to attract public attention, the deadline for registering to vote has already passed. Millions who want to vote are turned away simply because they didn't follow an arbitrary dictum to register a month ahead of time.

If you're caught speeding, a computer in the patrol car can pull up your entire life history instantaneously. So why not adapt this kind of technology to the polls, letting people register when they show up to vote?

Only six states now allow this--yet THESE SIX HAVE VOTER TURNOUTS 15% HIGHER than the national average. One of these is Minnesota, and Gov. Jesse Ventura says he wouldn't have been elected on his third-party bid without same-day registration.

Stop the harassment. The ugliest aspect of our system is that there is a systematic effort to prevent people from voting, especially minorities, legal immigrants, and the poor. Republicans are notorious for dispatching loud-mouthed white guys in suits to polling places in poor or minority precincts to accost would-be voters, demanding to see IDs and threatening jail time for anyone who violates a technicality of U.S. election laws. (Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist himself reportedly acted as a Republican goon at Arizona polling stations on Election Day in 1964.)

Then there's the matter of ex-cons. In 13 states, if you've ever been convicted of a felony, you're permanently banned from voting, even after you've paid your debt to society. Texas is one of these states--if you're convicted of simple drug use here, you can't ever vote...."

[SeeTheLight]

111. Say WHAT????

Quote: "Stop the harassment. The ugliest aspect of our system is that there is a systematic effort to prevent people from voting, especially minorities, legal immigrants, and the poor. Republicans are notorious for dispatching loud-mouthed white guys in suits to polling places in poor or minority precincts to accost would-be voters, demanding to see IDs and threatening jail time for anyone who violates a technicality of U.S. election laws. (Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist himself reportedly acted as a Republican goon at Arizona polling stations on Election Day in 1964.)"

I love a good honest debate. I love really getting in and digging for truth. But this kind of stuff is purely wrong.

How on earth can you WIN something, when you're fighting the wrong battles?

Nobody does this, not Democrat, Not Republican. I live in an area with huge minority population - some towns over 50%. No such thing goes on here. Polling places have been quiet, respectable, and serious. How can you win something when you're spending your time fighting a figment of someone's imagination?

[wildeyed]

113. just 'cause it doesn't happen

where you live doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Actually, it doesn't happen where I live either. The pugs are firmly in control, so political life in my city is fairly orderly. But it happens in Florida, and it changed the outcome of the last election.

Black voters in Florida and around the country turned out in record numbers on November 7. Since then, many have complained that Florida election officials removed large numbers of minorities from state voting rolls, wrongly classifying them as convicted felons -- and accused Florida officials of using police to intimidate voters in some areas. Jackson cited the reports of students from historically black colleges in Florida, who have said they went to the polls carrying voter identification cards and were told they were not on the voter rolls.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/13/african.americans/

[AirAmFan]

119. "Vote suppression" efforts are worthwhile only in "swing" states

Ask yourself, who controls the governor's office now? When was the last time the other party had it?

Look at the famous red-state/blue state map at http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/electfront.htm

Most states have been red for many years or blue for many years. Only a few are "in play", including Florida, NJ, and Illinois. And which states have the worst reputations for "dirty" politics? Why Florida, NJ, and Illinois.

[AirAmFan]

115. You seem to be experiencing "cognitive dissonance". It's a good sign

according to many theories of learning, when someone blurts out, "THAT CANNOT BE TRUE!" This may be a "teachable moment" for you.

I'd wager you're not a Texan I chose Jim Hightower as source for the observations that apparently have so upset you because he is one of the most recognizable names statewide in Democratic politics, and a "comer" in national politics. He was(still is?) Texas Agriculture Commissioner and is a wonderful speaker and writer.

But if you don't believe Jim Hightower, then how about an Ivy League historian, author of the defiitive history of voting in the US?

From Alexander Keyssar's summary of the history of US suffrage, excerpted from http://ni4d.us/library/keyssarpaper.pdf

"THE PROJECT OF DEMOCRACY, By Alexander Keyssar

"(L)arge and influential sectors of the population have frequently opposed democratization and the extension of political rights to all Americans. They did so both to defend their own interests and because their beliefs and prejudices led them to view others as something less than responsible or worthy citizens. Most men did not want to enfranchise women until the twentieth century; most whites did not want to enfranchise blacks or other racial minorities in their own states; the native-born often were resistant to granting suffrage to immigrants; the wealthy at times sought to deny political citizenship to the poor; established community residents preferred to fence out new arrivals....

<SNIP>

"(I)t is not a coincidence that nonvoters come disproportionately from the same social groups that in earlier decades were the targets of restrictions on the franchise itself. Despite the Motor Voter bill, there remain procedural obstacles to registration that have a heavy impact on the poor and uneducated. THE EFFECTS OF A RESTRICTED SUFFRAGE CAN BE REPLICATED, or at least approximated, by cleverly unequal districting or by complex registration requirements. ...

Prof. Keyssar's award-winning book, "The Right to Vote: The Contested History of Democracy in the United States", is partly online at http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0465029698/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-6464808-8415011

[wildeyed]

112. very interesting post AirAmFan

I am new to politics in my area, but it is my impression that many of the people involved on the local level would rather lose than risk giving up their little piece of power. I say WIN! And kick out anyone who gets in the way.

Same day registration is a great idea. I have been busting my you-know-what getting dems registered for this election. But it makes sooo much more sense to simply let them do it at the polls. I am going to think about ways to get same day registration introduced in my area. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[AirAmFan]

122. Thank you. My post was influenced heavily by a book...

...I read a few months ago, by Johns Hopkins University political scientists Matthew A. Crenson and Benjamin Ginsberg.

It's called "Downsizing Democracy: How America Sidelined Its Citizens and Privatized Its Public". Part of it is online at http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0801871506/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-4296268-9662312

[Commendatori]

118. People look at their federal income tax and base it solely on that.

Most of them don't see that when states raise income and property taxes that it more than offsets Bush's (or Reagan's) tax cuts.

However, some of them are just against expanded government; one Republican co-worker of mine said to me "I don't care if all the tax cut money goes to Bill Gates, just so long as they get it the fuck out of Washington." I was too tired to explain to him that Republicans haven't cut back the size of government in close to a hundred years.

[October]

120. To me, it's a quiet racism

And sometimes not so quiet...

But "ordinary folk" often harbor this low-key racism.

Politicians know how to speak to this group. They use terms like "States rights," and oppose quotas and the like -- all in the name of fairness, of course.

*Bush won't even speak to the NAACP, and insists it is they who were rude to him. (How dare "they" disagree with him.) This base of "ordinary people" sit idly by, and are unfortunately encouraged by his arrogance/boldness. (Limbaugh and O'Reilly get away with saying racists things out loud that these "ordinary folks" can't, so they watch with glee.)

Remember "Democrat" politicians left the party during the fight for civil rights in the 60's. How many switched back?

I've seen it within my own family. The racism is just below the surface. They keep it in check. But they all watch O'Reilly. They're union workers, low-skilled employees, and women with low wages. For all intents and purposes, they SHOULD be Democrats -- but they haven't voted for a Democrat since the 60's, and do not want to be identified with "that party."

More recently, I think it's about anti-gay feelings too...perhaps another thread...

IMHO, of course.

[indepat]

121. Ignorance, stupidity, fear, and race (racism)