Kerry: 'I am against the war'

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Is Kerry for or against the war in Iraq? "I think the president made a mistake in the way he took us to war," says Kerry. "I am against the war - the way the president went to war was wrong."

The Senate Intelligence Committee has just issued a report saying that the basis for the war was erroneous, and that there weren't weapons of mass destruction. Given what he knows now about that report, would Kerry have made the same decision?

"What I voted for was an authority for the president to go to war as a last resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to war," says Kerry. "I think the way he went to war was a mistake."

"I know you want to make this black and white, but the difference is - if John Kerry were president of the United States, we would never be in this place," adds Edwards. "He would never have done what George Bush did. He would have done the hard work to build the alliances and the support system."

"Why build an alliance if they didn't have weapons of mass destruction," asks Stahl.

"We would have found out, that's the point," says Edwards.

Regardless, Kerry says he doesn't regret his vote: "I believe, based on the information we have, it was the correct vote."

Edwards has said that if he is elected "no young Americans will go to war needlessly."

"That's true," says Edwards. "He (President Bush) didn't do the things that should have been done before taking this country to war. This is not a – I mean, we've now said it 10 times, this is not a complicated thing."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/07/60minutes/main627965.shtml

[TrustingDog]

1. he'd just do a better job at lieing about it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. I don't understand your post

could you please put it in terms clear enough for a simpleton like me to understand?

[TrustingDog]

8. trust no one... but trust Bush The Least.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. In what way is that statement related to your first post?

To me, it appears to be totally unrelated.

[TrustingDog]

27. Kerry...

is the lesser of two evils. Hopefully he;ll take up the 'regular' baton before the Bush fiasco. but the regular ain't so perty either.

[Name removed]

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[fearnobush]

3. How about: Kerry is against the war, but needs to walk a fine line

in order to win the election.

[merh]

79. I agree with you. He has to walk a fine line to win so that he can get

into office and figure how the hell he can fix the mess * has made of things. My gosh, if we expect him to say that he will pull out the troops on the first day he is in office we are expecting far too much of any human and/or god. He hasn't a clue as to how bad things truly are until he takes the office and by then, the weed that would be king will have another couple of months to screw things up.

*&Co accused Clinton and his staff of ruining computers in the west wing, later it was determined that those were bold faced lies (how surprising). Just imagine how * & co. will cheney things up before they leave.

[arcos]

4. He always was against the war but voted for it for political reasons...

and he is still afraid of saying it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Sounds to me like you failed to understand what Kerry and Edwards said.

Maybe you should read it again.

[DaveSZ]

6. Rofl

The Repubs do have somewhat of a point about Kerry.

I don't even know what he's for or against when it comes to the war. :P

[Name removed]

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[DaveSZ]

12. Kerry does straddle issues

If he didn't, this poll wouldn't exist.

Bush gives an ostensibly firm answer, but either lies or changes his mind about it later.

The corporate media then spins it as if he had been a “firm” leader all along.

And fuck the people who say I'm not allowed to criticize Kerry just because Bush is the greater evil.

That would make me little better than the knuckle draggers who have Newsmax as their homepage.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. Are you saying you prefer the dishonestly simplistic rhetoric of Bush

to Kerry's more honest and frank discussion of the true complexity of the issues facing us?



Kerry does straddle issues

If he didn't, this poll wouldn't exist.

That statement, I can only describe as idiotic. It's like saying that because Republicans repeat something often enough, it must be true.

[Cat Atomic]

77. Look at the answers to this poll. They're split.

Even this crowd is isn't sure where Kerry stands on this.

He DOES straddle issues. He DOES come off as the consumate politician, who speaks and speaks and never says anything. I don't think we're doing ourselves any favors by refusing to criticize this guy.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

85. Ad Populum

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

[Droopy]

9. I'm giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt

I don't think he's lying. I just really wish he and Edwards hadn't voted for that damn thing. I know he's saying that he was lied to by Bush, but I thought the war was the wrong thing to do regardless.

[emulatorloo]

11. If Bush had allowed Inspections and Diplomacy to run its course

there would have been no invasion.

[Droopy]

20. Very true

But in the end, IWR was an authoriztion to use force if necessary. I know Kerry has said that he went along with it so that we could get the inspectors in there and it worked in that regard. Bush just wanted the war so badly that he didn't give them time to work. I just think giving Bush that authorization was a big mistake. It was an abuse of power on the administration's part and I think Kerry should have seen it coming. But he didn't.

Oh well. Water under the bridge. I guess the real issue now is how is Kerry going to get us out of this mess?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Exactly

IWR was an authoriztion to use force if necessary.

Since it wasn't neccesary, Bush violated the resolution.

[taxidriver]

80. yes, let's authorize Bush do it if necessary...and the one party system

chooses when its necessary? or did someone else choose? cuz i'll be darned if he didntt turn around and start necessetating it and strongarming the security council into looking the other way

[emulatorloo]

37. It is my understanding that Powell promised that diplomacy would run

its course, that they would do everything they could to avoid going to war.

Despite what you and I think, Powell had credibility then, and probably believed it himself. . .but of course now we know Powell was out of the loop.

[Radical Activist]

13. He's against "the way the president went to war"

So what does that mean? I guess a pre-emptive war based on lies is ok if we build a coalition and get UN approval first? What a crock of horseshit!

People don't like a candidate who isn't able to decide where he stands and state it clearly on an important issue. They better get a better line fast.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Kerry 'I am against the war'

that is the quote I am asking about.

Do you think Kerry was lying, or telling the truth, when he said:

"I am against the war"

[Radical Activist]

24. I'm talking about the entire quote, in context

He can't even say he's against the war without equivocating and saying he's against the "way" we went to war. How many times can you go back and forth on one issue in one paragraph?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. Is the world so simple that it can be explained in one word answers?

Indeed, that is what the Bush campaign wants the American people to believe.

[merh]

83. Kerry knows that he voted to approve HJ Res 114, the legislation

that approved the military action. He cannot come out now and say I am against the war without explaining why now is different from his vote in Oct. of 2002. Therefore, he says, if I knew now what I knew then. Have any of you read the resolution? It is filled with the lies of the weed and his theives, that SH had ties to the terrorist attacks of 9/11, that Iraq had WMDs and chemical and biological weapons. All the lies that the WH told the American people they told Congress.

Kerry answered the question honestly. It was not wishy washy or a flip flop.

He can't say what he will do when elected because he hasn't a clue how cheney'd up things are. The best he can tell us is that he will reach out to the international community. We all know that he has a chance in his efforts in reaching out the other nations, because, the majority of them, like us want * out of the office. They hate and distrust him as much as we do.

[laura888]

104. Agreed! At this point we need to know where he stands.

Why should we have to decipher what his intentions were and are about THE most important issue facing the next president?

He needs to speak clearly.

[JHBowden]

14. Kerry just wants to get elected.

There's nothing wrong with that, but that motivation explains why Kerry fuzzes up some of the issues. In addition, the volatile situation in Iraq is changing quickly, which makes it stupid for Kerry to commit to a clear position in the middle of the summer.

Most importantly, while I have my doubts about people like Gephardt and Lieberman, I don't believe Kerry would have pulled the inspectors out of Iraq and started a war. IWR bullshit aside, this is what matters.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. So, how did you vote?

Do you think Kerry was lying, or telling the truth when he stated: "I am against the war" ?

[JHBowden]

18. I didn't vote!

:P

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Why not?

Does it scare you to face the fact that Kerry is actually against the war?

[JHBowden]

22. I don't know what "being for the war" means.

While the slogan fits on a bumper sticker, it doesn't specify if it means Kerry would have attacked Iraq unilaterally, if Kerry would have attacked Iraq multilaterally, if Kerry supports the occupation, if Kerry would tolerate a fundamentalist Shi'ite republic, and so forth.

I personally don't think Kerry would have attacked Iraq unilaterally; I'm iffy on whether Kerry would have attacked multilaterally; I think Kerry does support the occupation, and I think Kerry's pragmatism would not tolerate a Shi'ite dominated government without some sort of intervention.

[Name removed]

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[Imperialism Inc.]

29. You really need to listen to the actual footage.

He never said what the article implies.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. You really need to face up to the reality that Kerry is against the war.

"I am against the war" -- John Kerry.

[Imperialism Inc.]

34. No. You need to face up to the fact that you didn't listen to the

actual interview.

He paused during Stahl's interruption. I am against (presumably the way Bush went to war but we will never know because then.... Stahl: Was the the war wrong Kerry: not speaking during interuption) Kerry: the war - the way Bush took us to war was wrong.

Sorry. Have to put your bashing stick away for now until you have some idea what you are talking about.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. I heard you the first time.

Your characterization notwithstanding, there are two ways to vote in this election: pro-war (Bush, Nader) or anti-war (Kerry).

[taxidriver]

66. ...jesus. the man voted for it, and said he'd send more troops.

if you want to see a man against the war, look at howard dean and DK.

god i wish dean had gotten the Nod.

[Name removed]

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[taxidriver]

72. to quote howard dean, "the simple fact is, if it werent for democrats like

Kerry, we wouldnt be in iraq in the first place".

the man voted for the war. that was one of the statements i made, and it was truthful. and, by the way, he said he'd ask the UN to help- do you think he'd try and get other nation's forces there without sending more of our own?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

82. No, it's not truthful

to say that Kerry 'voted for the war'. It is a misrepresentation and a mischaracterization.

[taxidriver]

86. what did he do, then? what the fuck did he cast a vote for? what did he

think would happen!!! maybe, i dont know, he thought bush would just keep on puttering around, i'm sure he didnt know that he'd wanted to invade iraq since the attempt on his daddy's life.

fucking a. what the fuck.

mods, you can delete this if you think i said Fuck too many times...its just that threads like these do nothing but sow dissension- and to top it all off...he's defending his argument poorly.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

87. Bush did not follow the resolution. The resolution called for the UN

inspection process to be followed. Bush pulled the UN inspectors out and invaded even though Saddam was cooperating.

[quaker bill]

23. The vote for IWR was wrong

However, I do believe that Kerry is being truthful when he states that he does not agree with how Bush has used the authority IWR provided. The concept Kerry argues is likely the way he would have used such authority, specifically as a bargaining chip to leverage Saddam's compliance with an aggressive inspection program.

Unfortunately, those of us in the peace movement knew, without any shred of doubt, that Bush would never use the authority in this way. Bush's intent in going to congress was simply to gain political cover for a decision to go to war in Iraq that they had made probably on September 12, 2001, if not before.

To me the mistake was believing that Bush would handle this authority responsibly. My concern is less with Kerry's "support for War" because I do not think he ever intended IWR to be used this way. I remain concerned however over the concept that IWR was the equivalent of handing the 13 year old boy the car keys with the expectation that he would drive responsibly. Then, after the entirely predictable wreck, telling the public "I didn't think he would act this way and I do not approve they way he chose to drive". That is my problem with all this in a nutshell.

That being aside, it is well past time that we take the car keys away from the 13 year old. Kerry has my vote.

[Name removed]

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[Imperialism Inc.]

28. Sorry but the article is misrepresenting (through punctuation)

what was said in the interview.

The second link under multimedia will allow anyone who wishes to confirm this.

"I think the president made a mistake in the way he took us to war," says Kerry. "I am against" (interruption by Stahl "was the war wrong?") (Kerry stumbles due to to interruption) "the war - the way the president went to war was wrong."

There is no indication that he was going to deviate from the line simply criticizing the way Bush went to war.

[emulatorloo]

38. If bush had done it right, there would have been no invasion

if bush had followed diplomacy, let the inspectors do their job, gotten allies on board, there would have been no invasion.

No WMDs found by inspectors? no justification for invasion.

No WMDs, no broad coalition of allies. No Invasion.

[Imperialism Inc.]

43. I agree.

However that doesn't justify misrepresenting what was said. Not by CBS and not by a DU contributor.

[Zen]

30. I couldn't even answer the poll, I don't even know.

I've given Kerry money twice and I will vote for him. It's not because I agree with his strong stand on anything (well, the union picket line thing was cool) and it's not because he is charismatic enough to cover for this (like Edwards). I just hate Bush's guts more than anything else - ever. As I told the neocon freaks at work (to make them give up and go away) "I'd vote for a stinking pile of shit before I would vote for Bush". I am serious, I'd vote for a dead man before I'd vote for Bush (just like people did with Asscrack) - it's amazing how such violently hated people got into important places. :grr:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. It's pretty simple. Do you believe Kerry

when he states: "I am against the war" or do you think he is lying?

[Imperialism Inc.]

41. Why do you continue to misrepresent what was said?

Kerry has finished the line starting with "I am against... " with "the way Bush took us to war" how many times? Hundreds now surely. If he was changing it tonight then why not clearly state that after the interruption? Why not clearly say the war was wrong , which is the question Stahl interrupted with? It is right there on the CBS page for anyone who cares to deal with the actual interview instead of what they wish he said.

I don't have a problem with what he actually said but purposefully misrepresenting it is dishonest. He never spoke the sentence you are touting on this thread. Stahl never gave him a chance to and he didn't clear it up after the interruption. That is a fact not a characterization.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. WTF are you talking about?

You claim: "It is right there on the CBS page" wtf page are you talking about?

[Imperialism Inc.]

52. The video is right there on the CBS page you gave above.

2nd link under the multi-media section. Go listen to it and hear for yourself.

[Zen]

45. I honestly don't know what he believes.

I can't go by what he says. I was livid when he started viciously attacking Dean during the primary, I was even heard to say "I hate him". He's OK and I really like Edwards as his "charisma" crutch. He needs to be VERY CLEAR and UNWAIVERING when he gives his speech at the DNC.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. What I'm asking is if you believe he is a liar.

Do you think Kerry is a liar, or not?


It's a simple question.

[Zen]

51. Asking if a politician is a liar is like asking "What color is outer space

I'm sure he's conflicted and may believe something different than what he says to get elected - I'm JUST NOT SURE!! And I don't even care so long as he is ELECTED OVER THE KILLER CHIMP!!!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. 'Kiss my pass'- is that meant to be a clever way of saying 'kiss my ass'?

Wow, you are just a master of the English language.

LOL

I'm a 'punk'? :P Gee, that namecalling really adds weight to your argument...


Kerry: "I am against the war"

You: 'Is he for or against the war? How the heck can I tell from that statement??'

[Name removed]

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[taxidriver]

70. the freepers will love this post. always good to see rankor at DU

[Name removed]

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[taxidriver]

75. im getting that vibe...check out my howard dean quote

right back atcha, baby!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

71. You tell me to kiss your ass and I'm supposed to treat you with respect?

:wtf:

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[Feanorcurufinwe]

88. Your pathetic attempt to label me

a 'moron' or a 'troublemaker' barely merits a response, but I'll make one anyway.

All you've done is selectively quote from my original post:

Is Kerry for or against the war in Iraq? "I think the president made a mistake in the way he took us to war," says Kerry. "I am against the war - the way the president went to war was wrong."

The Senate Intelligence Committee has just issued a report saying that the basis for the war was erroneous, and that there weren't weapons of mass destruction. Given what he knows now about that report, would Kerry have made the same decision?

"What I voted for was an authority for the president to go to war as a last resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to war," says Kerry. "I think the way he went to war was a mistake."

"I know you want to make this black and white, but the difference is - if John Kerry were president of the United States, we would never be in this place," adds Edwards. "He would never have done what George Bush did. He would have done the hard work to build the alliances and the support system."

"Why build an alliance if they didn't have weapons of mass destruction," asks Stahl.

"We would have found out, that's the point," says Edwards.

Regardless, Kerry says he doesn't regret his vote: "I believe, based on the information we have, it was the correct vote."

Edwards has said that if he is elected "no young Americans will go to war needlessly."

"That's true," says Edwards. "He (President Bush) didn't do the things that should have been done before taking this country to war. This is not a � I mean, we've now said it 10 times, this is not a complicated thing."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/07/60minutes/main627965.shtml

[Zen]

90. So what's your point Belgian fry boy?

Putting in more of the quotes doesn't clarify things any - you are being silly now!

And getting caught up in my comments is a sure sign that you are just here taunting people because you are in a bad mood for some reason. Go to bed before you piss off everyone here.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

91. My point is that calling me names just makes you appear inarticulate

or worse.

[Zen]

92. Yeah, but at least I answer your points even though I know you are

just here causing trouble.

You won't even do that - why is that??

Why can you dish it out but not take it??

What's gotten under your craw??

[Feanorcurufinwe]

96. WTF are you talking about?

What 'point' did you answer?



I know you are just here causing trouble.

wtf is that supposed to mean?

[Zen]

97. Good night - I hope you can sleep after this debacle you started

I, for one, am tired of you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

100. Which begs the question: WTF are you talking about?

What 'point' did you answer?



I know you are just here causing trouble.

wtf is that supposed to mean?

[Classical_Liberal]

40. He's saying he would have been nicer to the Europeans so they

would have agreed with the war. Whatever! He is a prowar candidate. We would be in Iraq now. His advisors all supported the war. His foriegn policy isn't different from Bush.

Back when DU had asskickers rather than Kerrybots 90% of us knew it was blank check for Bush and Kerry did too.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. Why not accept that he is saying what he actually is saying?

Why make up a position for Kerry that you don't like, and then pretend that it's his position?


Why not comment on what Kerry's real position is, even if it means you have to admit you agree with him?

[Classical_Liberal]

46. I thought the IWR was a blank check then

I don't agree with his position that we should try to make Iraq work or that Iraq is workable. I don't agree with his position on Israel. He is accepting the settlements which means that he is not going to be an international leader of the stature of Carter, and Clinton. His position on Hugo Chavez is just obtuse. As an international leader he will be more of a midget then Bush only with less conviction. If you don't like my opinion don't fish for it.

I didn't make anything up. His advisors are supporters of the war and it reflects itself everyday with new neocon inspired policies.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. You didn't explain why you are falsifying Kerry's positions.

What I asked was, why make up a position for Kerry that you don't like, and then pretend that it's his position?


Why not comment on what Kerry's real position is, even if it means you have to admit you agree with him?

[Classical_Liberal]

49. He is objectively prowar

All his actions result in the same policies as Bush. I am not making this up at all. I look at actions not words. I take it for granted politicians are liars, and Kerry's actions tell me he is not honest.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. OK, so you are telling us that Kerry is a liar

I just wanted to be clear about what side of the question you were on.


Thank you for clearing it up.

[Classical_Liberal]

56. Yes

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

57. Well I disagree. I don't think Kerry is a liar.

I guess on this one, you agree with the Republican party, and I agree with the Democratic party.

[Classical_Liberal]

63. Bush is indeed more sincere about his motives than Kerry

saying so doesn't make me a republican. Again if you don't want my opinion don't ask for it. You aparently agreed with the republicans that there was good reason to vote for IWR. I don't think you want to go there. I am not in agreement with the republicans or democrats on the war, since they are fundamentally the same.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. I never said

you were a Republican. I merely pointed out that you share the Republican viewpoint that John Kerry is a liar, and I share the Democratic viewpoint that he is not.

Again if you don't want my opinion don't ask for it.

I don't know where you got that idea. I encourage you to share your opinions, no matter how out of the mainstream of Democratic opinion (or in) they happen to be.

For instance, now you've stated that you believe Bush is more sincere than Kerry. I say, bravo to you for your candor and courage in praising Bush on DU. Thumbs up for free speech.

[Imperialism Inc.]

53. You are making one up...

why can't Classical_Liberal do the same?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. I am quoting a CBS News article.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/07/60minutes/main627965.shtml

Your statement "You are making one up..." is false.

Either is was unintentional, and a mistake, or it was intentional, and a lie.

[freeforall]

58. Seems pretty clear to me...

He voted for the war, and he is saying that "...the way the president went to war was wrong," and given that he has said they should stick it out in Iraq (albeit with the help of other nations - "No thanks, we don't want to be part of the quagmire"), and has not said anything about bringing the troops home, I'd say, "Yep. He's for the war."

There are still all those corporate interests and oil to grab.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. Your misunderstanding is profound.

You start out with a false premise: He voted for the war so that explains why all your conclusions are so wrong.

[taxidriver]

76. when a man votes for something, it- you know, never mind. i'm tired.

i'm gonna go chill in the lounge.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

89. Uttering a half-sentence is not a way of making a coherent point.

It's usually good for a dishonest smear though.

[taxidriver]

93. ok, here' s a coherent point.

kerry has been in the senate for about 20 years. he's senior enough to know all the bullshit about the way that legislation can be misused (this vote was post-patriot act, btw) and he is well connected enough that he should be able to have known about W's passion, longing, nay- his LUST for war. to vote for any resolution that depends on UN action, when the UN has proved they cant stick up for themselves...is foolish, and i think he made a mistake.

can we agree to disagree, or what.

and i still think that starting this thread was divisive.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

102. If your point is that

Kerry should have voted against the IWR, I agree with you.

However, I still believe that Kerry is telling the truth when he says he is against the war.

[Swamp Rat]

61. Perhaps Kerry is telling the truth that he is against the war.

Since he actually saw combat, I'm willing to believe that he is against war in general. No matter what, I am still going to vote for Kerry in November. All this nitpicking on Kerry in the last few days is getting on my nerves. He wasn't my choice from the beginning, but he is our ONLY hope to defeat Bush... unless some unforeseen thing happens.

Actually, I'd vote for a one-eyed, one-horn, LYING purple people-eater before I would vote for Bush.

[flutter by]

67. Am I the only one who noticed...

...that there was a lot of 'cut-away' and editing in this interview? How can you know that the conversation wasn't edited to portray a certain spin? I don't trust the media.

And I didn't vote in the poll. It's counter-productive. I can just hear Rush now - 47% of Democrats think Kerry is a liar. Give me a break!

:eyes:

[taxidriver]

68. i say old boy, jolly good dissension you've sown amongst the ranks.

let's all just get along?

[Name removed]

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[taxidriver]

84. i've had enough for tonight. i wish he'd responded to the good doc dean

but i guess he got bored. interesting, he got to 300+ posts.

says a lot, doesnt it.

[gulliver]

94. Totally misleading poll. Kerry didn't say either.

He said his vote for giving the president the authority to go to war was right. He said Bush screwed up and abused the authority. Kerry is for the country. He would have taken us to war if it had proven necessary. He would have kept us out of war had it proven unnecessary.

He says he wouldn't have taken us to war when the president did and in the way he did it. Kerry is telling us Bush made a mistake.

[Zen]

95. Thanks for clarifying for us.

Apparently we have all fallen into the voodoo spell of this twit - lol - I must be tired.

[taxidriver]

99. heh heh, i was gonna leave, but i just went to the lounge.

i tried to see if we could agree to disagree.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

101. What you are saying is not true.

You are making false, unsupported, undocumented assertions.

[sampsonblk]

103. Then here's a simple answer

The next time he's asked "Do you think the invasion ofIraq was right?" all he has to say is "Under those circumstances, NO."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

109. And that's been Kerry's position all along.

If you look at his speech prior to casting the IWR vote, Oct. 2002: http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
His foreign policy speech in Feb. 2003: http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/issues/kerr012303spfp.html
His Hardball interview from Oct. 2003: http://www.csgv.org/document.cfm?documentID=139
Or 60 Minutes from last night, it's all the exact, same, consistent position.

[Albert Einstein]

98. I saw Kerry shortly before the war started.

He said he was against it then and he wasn't speaking for the camera. He was very sincere.

[Zorra]

105. Thank you, feanorcurofinwe. This is a truly wonderful post.

Excellent, and real.

[deacon]

106. yeah, he was holding up that fake vial like powell, he approved of

lifting a thesis off the internet and altering it to suit the case for war. Is this a BS poll or what? Cheney had nothing to do with it. Rummy is honest as the and pure as the driven snow.

Yeah, bush is innocent. Does that statement fill your needs?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

108. Your post is not true.

Is it?

"yeah, he was holding up that fake vial like powell"

You made that up didn't you?


What are you making false and misleading statements about Kerry?

[MadHound]

107. Well then John, if you're against the war

Where is you timetable for getting us out of Iraq? Where is the plan for bringing the troops home ASAP?

This is, I feel, more election year politics. On the one hand, Kerry is saying he is against the war, yet on the other hand, Kerry is promising to put more troops into the meatgrinder and his only timetable for getting us out of Iraq is some vague promise of sometime before his first term ends.

The majority of people have soured on the war, so this would be the perfect time to contrast himself against Bush and come out solidly against the war. I'm not even asking for an apology for his IWR stupidity. Just give us a firm timetable on when he will have us out of Iraq, and knock it off with the promises of throwing more troops into the fray.

But he will not, possibly cannot, do this. He is talking a good anti-war game, but his actions belie his words.