Anyone else scared by Ridge's "suspend the election"?

[Frangible]

I guess it was always a possibility, but I didn't expect them to be so blatant about it. Now all they have to do is have another terrorist attack, real or staged, and bam, Bush is president indefinately. Ummm...? I can't believe people in our government are saying that shit. The whole thing is like a bad dream.

Our own government is seriously considering stopping the election, and am I alone in being a bit unnerved by that? Not to be too tinfoil-hatish, but hey, they *did* say it.

[Walt Starr]

1. There are lots of threads on here

Take your pick, tons of threads on the issue.

[Dookus]

2. Yes

people are terrified. And I think it's a stupid, overwrought reaction.

It is RESPONSIBLE to have a contingency plan in place in case large numbers of people are unable to vote on November 2nd.

They cannot postpone elections past January. The president's term cannot be extended past January 20th. Postponing the elections will in no way affect the date and time Bush's term ends.

The fact is, if millions of Democrats were unable to get to the polls on November 2nd, we should be glad there's a plan to allow the election to go on a short time after.

[Walt Starr]

11. They can't do it nationally, so they have a single option

Martial Law, which makes this a military dictatorship.

An act of Congress can change the date.

An Amenedmnet to the constitution can change who has the authority (currently it's Congress).

Both will be argued to take too long in order to protect the nation, so the Bush Administration will "regretfully conclude" all they can do in the wake of the "disastrous attack" is declare Martial Law.

FEMA rules then go into effect which means the Constitution is not worth the paper it's written on and Bush is the Military Dictator of Amerika.

[Birthmark]

13. Question:

"It is RESPONSIBLE to have a contingency plan in place in case large numbers of people are unable to vote on November 2nd."

Can you think up a scenario where that's even possible, let alone likely? Betcha can't! I couldn't anyway.

[Dookus]

14. sure

radiological, chemical or biological attacks in a handful of major cities.

A decent-sized one in NYC alone could affect millions.

[Walt Starr]

15. Then we fall to local rules regarding elections

There is no need for a national contingency plan. The 9/11 New York primary model is the precedent. Shit happens on election days from time to time. It's up to local authorities, not a federal authority.

[Dookus]

23. Sorry, that is wrong

the constitution requires that all states hold their presidential and vice-presidential elections on the same day.

The NY election on 9/11 was a local election, and the city had authority to postpone it, and in fact did so, for good reason.

[Walt Starr]

25. BULLSHIT!

Article I. Section 4. of the United States Constitution disagrees with your argument:

Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

Only the time of the ELECTORS casting their votes for president and vice president are prescribed by the constitution. The constitution allows each of the states to determine how to choose the electors.

[Birthmark]

30. Sidetracking for a moment.

"The constitution allows each of the states to determine how to choose the electors."

Which is why the Supreme Court should never have even listened to Bush's suit in 2000. (Sorry, pet peeve of mine, but the USSC had no jurisdiction.)

[Dookus]

31. Before calling Bullshit

read carefully.

Clause 4: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States

Both the day of choosing of electors, AND The day they give their votes, shall be the same throughout the US.

[Walt Starr]

36. Why didn't you investigate further?

Under the U.S. code:

TITLE 3 THE PRESIDENT

Chapter 1. Presidential Elections and Vacancies

§ 1. The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President.

Failure to make choice on prescribed day

§ 2. Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.

[Birthmark]

16. Good.

So why should the people of Wisconsin or New Mexico not be able to vote? I can see postponing voting in areas affected, that only makes sense; but to extend it nationwide would be out of proportion and an abuse. No?

[Walt Starr]

18. Right, the mechanism is already in place

as the contstitution leaves the election schedule up to local authorities in those instances.

[Birthmark]

19. That's my understanding as well.

When this first broke, I tried to think up scenarios where it would be necessary to postpone elections on a nation-wide basis. I couldn't come up with anything that render the point of voting more or less useless. I'm a bit suspicious of the motives.

[Walt Starr]

22. Since there is no constitutional authority

the administration is setting the stage for a need to declare "Martial Law".

Bush is floating this now to give himself a military dictatorship because the constitution goes away under marital law!

[Birthmark]

21. What's interesting (and morbid)

...is that if both nominees were killed in the attacks it really wouldn't have a direct effect on voting since we merely vote for Electors. The electors could get together on the usual date (or whatever the States decided) and do their normal duty -- even though the persons for whom they intended to vote were no longer with us.

I think that the system is strong enough as it is.

[Dookus]

24. Two reasons

first, the constitution requires all states hold their presidential and vice-presidential elections on the same day.

Second, it would be very disruptive to have, say, 49 states vote on November 2nd and achieve a near-tie, and then have a national campaign focused for two weeks in the ONE remaining state to determine the outcome.

[Walt Starr]

26. BULLSHIT!

The constitution proivides no such requirement. In fact, there is no constitutional requirement for a popular vote for president and vice president.

Read the thing before you start talking about it.

[Birthmark]

27. What am I missing?

"Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators."

[Walt Starr]

28. The electors cast ballots on a specific date, but the STATES

decide how and when to choose the electors!

dookus is WRONG!

[Birthmark]

29. That's what I think, too.

But I'm no Constitutional scholar by any measure. Perhaps Dookus knows something that I don't. Seems entirely possible to me. :)

[Dookus]

32. Dookus is not wrong

though not as excitable as Walt Starr, it seems.

Clause 4: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States

[Walt Starr]

37. Dookus IS Wrong under the applicable U.S. code

TITLE 3 THE PRESIDENT

Chapter 1. Presidential Elections and Vacancies

§ 1. The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President.

Failure to make choice on prescribed day

§ 2. Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.

[Paradise]

3. I'm with you, Frangible! :( nt

[DinahMoeHum]

4. Scared, no. Pissed off, yes. Ridge is a pantywaist.

And if G*d forbid, elections are suspended due to a threat (or perceived threat), the 'Pukes in the WH are gonna regret that their mamas ever gave birth to them.


:kick:

[calico1]

8. I think a lot of people would turn against

them. Even those who planned on voting for them. With the exception of the glassy eyed cult members ones, regular Conservatives and other Republicans will not like it any better than we do. They can't hold onto power forever. Americans won't stand for it.

[ibegurpard]

5. Contact your represenatives NOW!

send letters to the editor, talk about this with your friends and acquaintances. Be reasonable and non-alarmist but stress the point that the government should be discussing ways to FACILITATE elections in the event of a catastrophre, not cancel or postpone them. This is EXTREMELY disturbing.
Those of you who think I'm overreacting can thank me later when I help get enough people outraged about this to stamp it into the ground.

[hackwriter]

6. Yeah, I'm scared, but so what else is new?

I've expected them to do it for the last 3 years.

The timing is truly horrifying, though.

As long as Bush was riding high, it wasn't discussed. ONLY now that he seems to be in some pretty deep feces are they talking about threats, certainty of another attack, cancelling or postponing the election.

They didn't even talk about it right after the Madrid attack.

What this tells us is that 9/11 WAS, in fact, LIHOP.

And they'll do it again if they have to in order to stay in power.

And you know what the worst thing is?

They'll get away with it.

Half the population doesn't even vote.

Probably an equal number already think the president either can or should be able to do whatever he wants.

NO ONE outside of those of us who've been thinking along these lines for the last 3 years will put together that all of the freedoms they want us to give up, the war in Iraq, NONE OF IT has made us safer.

I fully expect that people like me will be put in camps in the next 4 years.

[tom_paine]

7. It just means that, as ususal Bushevik Tyranny is moving faster than I'd

guessed.

And I'd guessed pretty fast.

Looks like the Gulags may be up by 2005.

[Killarney]

9. This is what will happen.

Bush can't be president indefinitely. According to the constitution, elections HAVE to be held before January 20th. However, Bush can easily win four more years by postponing the election. Here's how:

1) A terror attack happens two days (or so) before the election.
2) Bush, in a well-written, well-practiced speech promises that we will hold elections by the end of the month. Tells terrified America that he will get the thugs that did this.
3) During this month, Bush does a lot of tough guy speeches about getting the terrorists just like after 9/11. We go to war again. We get a few top guys, maybe even bin laden. The mediawhores tell us how great Bush is. How strong he is. How he got those darn terrorists.
4) Bush's approval rating rises to 70% just like it did after 9/11.
5) Bush says it's safe to have the election now. It's the end of November, he kept his promise.
6) Bush wins.

Four more years of Bush.

[sniffa]

10. no, i'm overjoyed

i've aLways wanted to hone my skiLLs at gueriLLa combat.

[Birthmark]

12. Scared? Why should I be scared?

Angry and appalled, maybe, but I just don't see anything to be frightened of.

[Beware the Beast Man]

17. No, becuase it won't happen

They're just as scared of civil unrest as we are.

[ibegurpard]

20. Not the point

Someone wants people thinking about this and getting comfortable with it for a reason. It needs to be stopped NOW.

[sweetheart]

33. What constitution? Why not postal ballots?

Given the shredded remains of that paper are already lost, where is
there any laws when they roll out the "national security" bullshit line.

Why don't they just shift the whole population on to a postal ballot.
Mail them out right now, and give a date by which they must be
mailed in... voila, no terrorism can stop people from getting to the
post person.

[sweetheart]

What constitution? Why not postal ballots?

Given the shredded remains of that paper are already lost, where is
there any laws when they roll out the "national security" bullshit line.

Why don't they just shift the whole population on to a postal ballot.
Mail them out right now, and give a date by which they must be
mailed in... voila, no terrorism can stop people from getting to the
post person.

[Romulus]

34. I'm creeped out by it.

I've already got the escape route mapped from by DC-area house to my mom's in southside VA, and to my in-laws in rural PA.

[librechik]

35. Hell yes--it's the biggest, ugliest trial balloon I've ever seen! n/t

they wouldn't hesitate to do it either.