phillybri
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:23 PM
Original message |
Worst Democratic President? Best Republican President? |
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Unfortunately, my knowledge of presidents pre-FDR is limited, so I may have to defer to the experts here.
Your thoughts?
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geek tragedy
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message |
1. It doesn't make any sense to compare the parties pre-FDR. |
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The Democratic party is an entirely different party, as is the Republican.
I'd say Lyndon "Mr. Vietnam" Johnson was the worst Dem.
I'm not going to venture a guess as the best Repub. The one-termers have the advantage that they were limited in the damage they could do.
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phillybri
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
8. I understand that completely... |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:31 PM by phillybri
But I'm still curious about that time period as well...
For instance, Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson doesn't necessarily make me proud to be a Democrat...
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RubyDuby in GA
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
22. Actually, ol' Hickory |
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wasn't so bad when he became President. He was very much a staunch Democrat and did a lot to strengthen the federal union. He was constantly at odds with his VP John C Calhoun (author of the Nullification Doctrine - used as justification for succeeding from the Union during the Civil War. I totally blame the Civil War on him and I'm from the South).
And we get the donkey symbol from Andy. It has been traced back to political cartoonist of that day who used to draw/describe Jackson as a stubborn donkey (or jackass as they probably intended). It came to symbolized all Democrats after him.
Sorry...have a degree in history and took an entire class on the Age of Jackson. Dying to use some of this random knowledge...........
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LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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Vietnam killed his presidency, but he did much in the way of civil rights and waged a war on poverty.
And he was one hell of an imposing force. Beat the GOP at their own game by not letting them rattle him. We could use another LBJ.
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calico1
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:35 PM by calico1
Teddy Roosevelt was a staunch environmentalist. Nowadays, "Republican Environmentalist" is an oxymoron. I agree that both parties are totally different.
From FDR on I would say the best Rebublican was Eisenhower, worst Democrat, Jimmy Carter--though I love what he has done since his term ended.
Edited for spelling.
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rohit
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
16. the topic itself needs discussion |
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When you speak of the best Democratic president, do you mean one that performed better than other democrats, or one that ranked highest among all presidents that were democrat?
from what i know, the regan, g h w bush, and g w bush all drove the economy into a deficit, and therefore clinton was probably the best in recent times AND was a democrat.
also g w is the best republican president since 2001 ;)
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DjTj
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:53 PM
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central scrutinizer
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:59 PM
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29. that's why Ford is the best |
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He was only prez for a coupla years.
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LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message |
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Worst Democratic President: James Buchanan, who failed at keeping the country together prior to the Civil War. He seemed to side more with the South, and failed horribly at bringing about a compromise.
Best Republican President: Abe Lincoln, followed by T. Roosevelt and D. Eisenhower.
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taxidriver
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message |
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johnson was corrupt up to his eyeballs, and perpetuated vietnam forever. i also personally think he played a role in JFK's death.
Lincoln saved the union. his freeing the slaves was secondary, and his motivation for doing so are debated, but it still happened.
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aden_nak
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message |
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Best Republican President: Ever? That's gotta be Lincoln. In fact, I think Lincoln qualifies in a way that is almost unfair, so I will suggest a runner-up of Teddy Roosevelt.
Worst Democrat President: Lyndon B. Johnson. I consider the man to have been a reprehensible prick, just barely above Nixon on my Political Scorn chart. Despite his activism in the Civil Rights movement (for which I am grateful), his handling of the nation and of the Vietnam War was so attrocious. . . I simply cannot forgive it.
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lil-petunia
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. took the words out of my keyboard |
wurzel
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
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5. Clinton. He screwed up an incredible opportunity. |
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And gave us the worst Republican George W Bush. No contest.
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barbaraann
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
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K-W
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:00 PM
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30. Clinton didnt screw anything up or give us Bush |
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I dont understand why so many people around here want to blame democrats because of the actions of the conservatives. Clinton never had any opportunity. The republicans took congress because of their strategy and resources. They witch hunted clinton and took control of the media. By the time Gore came around they had a monstrous media machine.
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wurzel
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Mon Jul-12-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
41. It wasn't a "murderous media" that gave us NAFTA |
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"Welfare reform", weakened unions, millions without health care, "the era of big government is over ", a Republican secretary of Defense, middle of the road Supreme Court Justices to counter the like of Scalia and Thomas. etc. etc. Nor did the media give us Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones. It just exploited it.
The fact is that after eight years of being a Democratic President who also enjoyed a majority in Congress Clinton achieved very little on the social front. And who replaced him? The most reactionary Republican in modern history. And look what he has done in four years for the people he serves! Now he has total political control of the four branches of government. I hold second place to no one in my utter contempt for the "media". But throughout the Democrats showed no back bone in supporting working people they claim to represent. And Clinton acted like a complete jerk! Even after Bush got in the Dems crawled to "line up behind our President". What saved the Democratic party was Dean and the Internet.
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mzmolly
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message |
10. Lincoln best R. Worst Dem? I'd have to think on that one for a while. |
LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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http://www.heptune.com/preslist.html#PartyDemocratic (or earlier, Democratic-Republican) presidents Thomas Jefferson James Madison James Monroe Andrew Jackson Martin Van Buren James Polk Franklin Pierce James Buchanan Andrew Johnson Grover Cleveland Woodrow Wilson Franklin Roosevelt Harry Truman John Kennedy Lyndon Johnson Jimmy Carter Bill Clinton Republican presidents Abraham Lincoln Ulysses Grant Rutherford Hayes James Garfield Chester Arthur Benjamin Harrison William McKinley Theodore Roosevelt William Taft Warren Harding Calvin Coolidge Herbert Hoover Dwight Eisenhower Richard Nixon Gerald Ford Ronald Reagan George Bush George W. Bush You want really bad presidents? Here are the Whigs, the predecessor to the Republican Party: William Henry Harrison John Tyler Zachary Taylor Millard Fillmore Federalists: George Washington John Adams No party affiliation: John Quincy Adams
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Parche
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
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John Tyler was actually not bad as the first VP to assume office when a President died.
I forgot to mention that Harding had terrible scandals thru out his term, Benjamin Harrison had voting scandals.
Grover Cleveland was a good President (DEM)
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RichV
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Mon Jul-12-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
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Was hated by both parties. Had something like 4 of 5 Supreme Court nominees defeated as well. It's hard to be prez when nobody's on your side, I guess.
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Parche
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message |
11. Worst and Best Presdidents |
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Worst Democratic President LBJ, James Buchanan Worst Republican President GW Bush, Hoover, Nixon, Reagan
Best Republican President Lincoln(He was National Party 2nd term)
Best Democrat President FDR, Madison(DEM-REP party), Jefferson, Jackson, Clinton, John Kerry, JFK, Polk
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Parche
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
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He was the greatest President we have had
From the miraculous turn around from the great depression His first 100 days the new deal
To his for sight in our defense of the country He strengthened our Navy and armed forces in 1940 and 41 with the Essex class Aircraft Carriers, to the Submarine force
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UdoKier
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:36 PM
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14. Worst Dem: Truman Worst Repuke: Dumbya |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:36 PM by UdoKier
Truman for the A-bombs (LBJ a close second for dragging us into the pointless slaughter in Vietnam) , Bush for the murder of Iraq and our soldiers, and all-around incompetence and corruption.
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Parche
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
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The A-Bombs were a necessary evil, but I am glad that Truman did that.
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UdoKier
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
24. I realize that that debate has been done to death here... |
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...so I won't get into it.
The poster asked for submissions, and I gave mine.
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number6
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message |
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Bad D's LBJ for Vietnam Woodrow Wilson Racism
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westsidexview
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:42 PM
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18. sadly clinton/clinton |
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clinton lost a lot for the democrats and did a lot for the republicans. clinton came in with democrats in control of congress and left with the republicans in control. his "new" democrat economics is really old republican economics. slick willy is a great character but a political enigma.
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LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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Clinton was able to do what more liberal Democrats like McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis couldn't - win the presidency.
Clinton had to compromise and wrap up some liberal issues in ones more palatable to the right and the moderates. And I think he's a master politician and did a great job with the economy (although NAFTA has come back to bite us in the ass). He beat the Republicans at their own game, and gave the Democratic party a swift kick in the ass that was seriously needed.
If a classic liberal ran for president in '92, Bush would have gone on to another four year term. Sad, but true.
In order for classic liberalism to make a comeback, it must be brought back gradually. Nobody will win a national election on a strict liberal stance. The GOP took years and decades to cram conservatism down our throats.
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andyjackson1828
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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I think Woodrow Wilson is the worst Democratic President. He's an out and our racist that re-segregated the Federal work force and showed <i>Birth of a Nation</a> in the White House. He had anti-war activists locked up for speaking out against WW1. I am of the opinion that the US should have stayed out the Great War. And then there is A. Mitchell Palmer and the Red Raids.
Harding did well by dying early. Sure there was Tea Pot Dome, but i've never read anything that indicated he was involved. He pardoned Eugene Debs so he could be at home with his wife for Christmas. Wilson had prosecuted him for speaking out against the war and Debs had gotten a 10 year sentence. Harding was behing the treaty that led to the greatest military reduction in history up to that point (The Washington Naval Treaty. He was probably the most progressive president on race up to his time, giving an anti-lynching speech in Brimingham, AL.
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noiretextatique
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:55 PM
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FighttheFuture
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message |
26. Hands down --- Lincoln, best Republican President. Democratic... |
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hard to say. Even the "worst" Dem would be in the middle. Maybe a Polk who started a number of wars in the expansion of America and it's "Manifest Destiny". Still, that is mixed.
I really can't think of any in the like of Bush, Hoover, Grant or Ford (a real do nothing, guess that's what you get when you are not elected). Even Reagan and Nixon look good compared to them. Even the last few of those are a mixed bag.
There are about 10 or 12 who are neither party. The whigs or Federalists or Republican-Democrat rs of the early days. Some were bad, like Adams and the Alien-Sedition act (although he defended the Amistad slaves).
When you really think about it, most of iffy ones have a mixed bag. The only one who is a true failure in all he has done, especially given his backing and resources, it George W. "Armageddon" Bush. He will be credited for destroying the Republican Party and perhaps the Nation. Maybe even the world.
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LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
31. Ford did what he could with the bad hand dealt to him |
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The perception of the American people in 1974 toward politicians was very low. Ford had no mandate - he was appointed to the position.
While many chastise his pardoning of Nixon, I think he was right. Just think about how evil the Republicans and Democrats would be toward each other, and how angry the American people would be if Nixon went on trial. We would have become a very divided, bitter people. Ford wanted to heal the nation, and he did a good job at it. This is his legacy.
He was also the last non-conservative Republican president, and was pro-choice and pro-women's rights. He failed at stopping inflation, and he sucked up to some notorious dictators. Otherwise, he wasn't a bad president, given what he had to work with.
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LTR
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM by RatTerrier
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HamdenRice
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Mon Jul-12-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message |
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I'm shocked, shocked that so many people think Lyndon Johnson was one of the worst. I wonder how old people are who are saying this (were you alive during his presidency?) and what their ethnicity is? I remember the 1964 election -- as a little "Colored" boy, my parents telling me as I went to sleep that if Johnson did not defeat Goldwater, we would be going "back to slavery"!!! That is no exaggeration -- that's exactly what my parents told me as I went to bed. Johnson was the greatest president ever on civil rights, without anyone coming close. He also practically created a second New Deal in the Great Society. He inherited the Vietnam War and was blindsided by it, and his desire not to be the first American president to lose a war.
As for your original question, I agree that Lincoln is hands down the greatest Republican president. It's almost not fair to compare him to anyone else. Second greatest republicans would be a toss up between Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower. I lean toward Roosevelt, because Eisenhower was a great WWII general, which biases our feelings about his presidency, which was pretty bland.
Worst democratic president, I agree with others, is probably Buchanan, for getting the US into position for a civil war, but Andrew Johnson would have to be a close second, because he was almost impeached for his anti-Reconstruction biases.
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DaveSZ
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:20 PM by DaveSZ
Best Dem: FDR
Worst Dem: Clinton for marring FDR's legacy
Best Repub: Lincoln
Worst Repub: It's hard to decide between Reagan and W Bush, because they are/were such evil and corrupt men.
If there had been no REagan Bush 2 wouldn't even be pres (because REagan made racism and greed acceptable again and because of his SC appointments that appointed BUsh president).
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FighttheFuture
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Mon Jul-12-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
39. It's interesting how some fall into the meme, "Clinton the worst", sure... |
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Maring FDR's legacy? Just how? Reagan/Bush and the Republicans have done that.
Clinton will be judged a mid to upper level (70-85%) as far as presidents go. He did prove that paying down the deficits by slight increases on taxes on the wealthy resulted in an unprecedented boom! He also showed spineless Dems and other "Politically Correct" pussies how to stand up the re-thugs and hypocrites!
Try again on your worst Dem, and try to back it up with facts, not unsubstantiated, and frankly, illogical, opinions.
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Sandpiper
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:07 PM
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33. Worst Dem - Woodrow Wilson |
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Union buster, warmonger, anti free speech, racist...but other than that, a fine human being.
Best Rep - Lincoln
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Zomby Woof
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Mon Jul-12-04 08:05 PM
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45. I agree with both picks |
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If it wasn't for his wife running things after he had the stroke, who knows how much longer women's suffrage would have been delayed.
Wilson is the most overrated Democrat of the 20th century, an honor I usually give to JFK, but Wilson's racism and imperialism (Fourteen Points didn't apply to Latin America, especially when the United Fruit Company was involved) trump Kennedy by a hair.
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Walt Starr
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:08 PM
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34. Andy Jackson/Abrham Lincoln |
Ishoutandscream
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:09 PM
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35. Franklin Pierce worst Dem. TR - best Republican. |
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Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:11 PM by Ishoutandscream
Damn, how could I forget Lincoln! I guess because he wasn't your modern day, run of the mill Republican.
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StayOutTheBushes
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Mon Jul-12-04 01:28 PM
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37. Martin Van Buren / James A. Garfield |
phillybri
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Mon Jul-12-04 02:38 PM
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CaTeacher
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Mon Jul-12-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
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My favorite Repub--Nixon and least favorite Repub--Reagan
Explaination--
Nixon's lack of ethics upset the country so much that it seemed that a repug would never again get elected in my lifetime! I love him! (and actually he accomplished some things a lefty can appreciate--he started the EPA, gave us AMTREK, opened up China, and mnay more good things). But most importantly, I have many many articles written after the impeachment--it really seemed as if the Repugs had been dealt a death blow--and the party was likely to splinter, disappear, never again hold much power--those were GREAT days!
Reagan somehow united the Repugs again, he made it "cool and popular" to be conservative and he not only consolidated the base, but he won over a lot of democrats. He moved political discourse so far to the right, that now we aren't even debating things like the death penalty very much. I hated him, hated him, hated him. But I do recommend that we study him--there is obviously a lot of stuff that a political junkie can learn from Reagan.
My favorite Democrat--Carter and least favorite Clinton
Yeah, I know, Carter was plagued by international problems and economics (not his fault). But, he is a good smart man, who has high morals and ethics. He faught for human rights, he did not sell out on his prinicples. he is a great man. Perhaps he did not have a great run as president, but I wish we had more like him.
Clinton basically became a Repug to win--he moved our party even further to the right. He does not stick to any morals or priniciples--makes me miss Carter very much. But he had a fairly successful run....as a Repug.
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troublemaker
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Mon Jul-12-04 03:33 PM
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42. This question should be, "Excluding Lincoln and Bucchanan..." |
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They would top the lists of 90% of historians and that spoils the fun of considering 20th century Presidents.
So, excluding those two... I'll say Wilson for worst Democrat and Teddy Roosevelt for best Republican.
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RichV
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Mon Jul-12-04 04:02 PM
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44. A. Johnson/A. Lincoln |
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Both legends -- one for incompetence, the other for statesmanship.
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