This Gay Man Thinks The Senate Gay-Baiting is A Good Thing.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

On balance. Sure, no gay-bashing is ever truly "good," but the way I see it, this whole futile exercise can only serve to alienate the vast majority of Americans who, while perhaps not entirely comfortable with the idea of gay marriage, are definitely not cool with discrimination and homophobia, and who are none too thrilled about amending the Constitution to enshrine bigotry. (Not to mention that gay marriage tends to rank WAAAAY near the bottom of issues that are important to people).

Basically, the way I see it, anybody who is not of the "religious right" contingent will see this for the ignorant, intolerant sham (not to mention huge waste of time and money) that it is. And ultimately that's good for our electoral prospects come November, and good for America.

I say, let it all out, Repukes!! Let your hatred and bigotry flow! By doing so, you are merely showing yourselves for the self-righteous moralizing idiots that you are. In the end, all of you who vote for this travesty will have to answer to the fundamentally decent and fair-minded American people. Maybe you'll survive this election, but history is not on your side, and it will not be kind.

[NMDemDist2]

1. agreed

:hug:

[bo44]

2. I agree

Very well done.

[Zen]

3. I think you are right. I know what their motivations are...

After the Gay marriage Amendment was debated in Mass, there was special election in one of the districts where someone left their seat early. The Republican won by a very small margin in a fairly mixed electorate. Don't think those sleazy hacks in Washington don't know about this.

Edit - bad speeling!!

[Joanne98]

4. Well said

The sheeple will wonder things like, "Why are they wasting time on this and not the war on "terra". Especially after that fake terra alert they put out last week. "What are they doing this for"? Will be question. It's going to backfire.........

[donco6]

5. I think this is the exact strategy the Dems are following

Let 'em bellow and bluster. They look like fools, and most people know it.

[kodi]

6. as with scene in "12 angry men" when lee j cobb showed his bigotry?

and everyone else turned away from him in disgust.

i hope you are right.

[Salviati]

7. Come on Religious reich, feel the hate flow through you...

let your masks and helmet hair slip for a second so that the majority can see you as you really are...

[ablbodyed]

8. I hope you are correct but>>>>

your argument that this exposure of rethug bigotry will cause them to be more open-minded fails because they have been seeing utter lies for 4 years and they don't react. I do NOT agree that the American people are basicly decent. Most are willingly ignorant and paranoid: they'll do whatever they're told to do.
Certainly the vast majority of white hetero males are more or less overt bigots. And they are mostly weaklings and they know it. If they had to deal with one tenth of the bullshit that every gay man puts up with every day they would be shooting people from bridge overpasses, and self-rightous about how justified they are doing it. I work with conservative whimmies, and not one of them has ever had a thought in his life, let alone an original one. They're petty, mean-spirited, selfish little people and they know THAT too.
If this offends those of you heteros who aren't bigots, well, sorry, but you do not represent the mainstream, simply because you are here on this very-non-mainstream site.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

9. What a ray of sunshine you are!

But I confess that in my darker moments, I almost agree with you... nevertheless, I have a certain faith in the basic decency of the American people. God only knows where it comes from, and it's certainly shaken to its core nearly every day... but I look at the strides gays and lesbians have made just in the last 10-15 years and I am astounded. Astounded and hopeful.

Look at the ratings for a show like "Will and Grace" as just one tiny example. It seems to me that it's not just gay folks watching that show, and that if this country really was as inherently homophobic as you think, shows like that wouldn't have much of an audience at all.

Of course, you can validly disagree about the importance of a show like "Will and Grace," but I just mention it as one example among many of how gays have permeated our pop culture. There's no going back from something like that.

[justin899]

12. You're absolutely correct

Which is why we now have 38 or 39 (and possibly a lot more after the November elections)states with laws or state constitutional amendments which ban same-sex marriage outright. Over half of those ban not only marriage but they also ban civil unions.

All of these (nonexsitent) "decent" people in these states didn't open their mouths or give a damn.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

14. No State Constitutional Amendments have yet passed.

We'll have to get off our asses in those states and make sure they don't.

But your point is well taken. Pretty depressing.

Here's a state-by-state rundown.

http://www.stateline.org/stateline/?pa=story&sa=showStoryInfo&id=353058

Voters in Missouri will be the first to decide on a constitutional ban on gay marriage, which will be put on the state's primary ballot in August. Louisiana voters will follow September 18. Lawmakers in five other states - Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Utah - have approved putting constitutional gay marriage bans on the November ballot. Similar measures were approved by Massachusetts', Tennessee's and Wisconsin’s legislatures, but must be approved again in 2005 before going to a statewide vote that year in Wisconsin and 2006 in Massachusetts and Tennessee.

Proposed constitutional amendments are still pending in two state legislatures - Delaware and North Carolina. Amendments are expected to be introduced in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Marriage statutes -- Sixteen states have debated statutory legislation that would either prohibit same-sex marriage, strengthen pre-existing gay marriage bans and/or prohibit granting marriage-like benefits to same-sex couples in lieu of marriage such as those provided under Vermont’s civil unions law.

Such measures have been approved by New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah and Virginia, and are still active in four other states: Louisiana, New Jersey, New York and Tennessee.

Non-binding resolutions -- Alabama and Virginia have adopted non-binding resolutions urging Congress to pass a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. Similar resolutions have been introduced in at least 20 states and are still pending in nine states: California, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

[justin899]

16. From your own link there are 4 states which have state amendments

in their state constitution already.

Like I said there are 38 (or possibly 39) states which have already either passed legislation or constitutional amendments and several more which have that on the ballot this November.

Many of those ban civil unions as well as marriage.

Furthermore, a successful sitcom (which includes stereotypical gay characters) isn't reflective of a more tolerant culture. In fact, anti-gay violence is on the rise all over the country.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

18. Uh, no. Read it again.

"Voters in Missouri will be the first to decide on a constitutional ban on gay marriage."

None have yet passed.

A successful sitcom, by itself, isn't reflective of a more tolerant culture, but combined with all the other shows with gay themes and characters, as well as movies, and music... all of it combined most certainly does reflect a more tolerant culture.

The rise in anti-gay violence is also, somewhat counter-intuitively I admit, evidence of growing acceptance. Think about it. Homophobes are feeling outnumbered and cornered, and they know they're LOSING the culture war and are therefore lashing out. The rise in anti-gay violence is indeed horrible, but you can't convince me that the trend is anything but TOWARDS more tolerance and acceptance in general.


edit for clarity

[justin899]

21. Not to be argumentative, but you're reading that wrong

You keep saying none have passed yet. That's true for the current (2004) group of states with constitutional questions being put to voters this fall.

But I'm talking about in TOTAL. There are 4 states with amendments which have passed in previous years.

The point is that I don't think it is a good idea to be cheering these people on. This country is not tolerant at all of gays with the few exceptions of gay ghettos in coastal cities (but even then there are places like Seattle which are having a major anti-gay backlash and people are being beat up).

And I still disagree with you about television shows. There have been many successful television shows with black characters but we still have major racism issues in this country.

The United States is a very backwards bigoted country. It always has been and it most likely always will be. That's just the way it is. That's why cheering on bigots is, IMO, a bad idea. It only looks bad to people who aren't bigoted in the first place. That's a minority of the general population, IMO.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

22. Oh, you're right. My bad.

And I even STUDIED the Hawaii case in Family Law! Duh!

Interesting that you bring up the race issue. Yes, we still have racial issues in this country, but TV or no TV, would you argue that things haven't gotten much, much better on that front in the last 30-40 years? Sure we have a long way to go, but to me the progress we've made in fighting racism is evidence that we don't necessarily live in a "backwards, bigoted country."

Sure, there's still a lot of backwards bigoted people out there, all over the place, but my only point is that the general direction of progress is FORWARD. Not as fast as we would like, of course, but the writing is on the wall.

In 40-50 years all these anti-gay laws you speak of will be seen as embarrassing anachronisms and those that remain will be quietly taken off the books. Not soon enough for me, and certainly I would never advocate we let up in the fight... but there it is. I have faith in the basic decency of people.

At this particular moment, that is. Catch me another time and I'll be Mr. Misanthrope!! :-)

[Duncan Grant]

10. Agreed. Why should we 'duck' this issue?

It's about time we took a stand for something. Isn't civil rights/equality under the law an appropriate line in the sand?

Let the republiCONS spew their vitriol. It doesn't intimidate me; it shouldn't intimidate you.

[morningglory]

11. How many kids have been graduated from high school since the

2000 theft? I guarantee, this is not an issue with them. They will see the right as loony, I feel. Go 'head on with it. Get it out there.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

13. Yeah, it's heartening how gay-positive the youth of today are.

(Despite running around stealing poundcake and using bad grammar!!)

Seriously, I seldom watch MTV (not my demographic), but when I happen to catch it I'm often amazed at how gay-friendly it is. (Although I wonder if that makes up for its downsides, like the rampant consumerism and such...)

[justin899]

19. True...but

most people in that age group don't vote.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

20. We should keep informing them that they could be drafted!

I bet you'll see more young people voting in this election... having your own life on the line has a tendency of focusing a person!

[ibegurpard]

15. I was just watching debate on C-SPAN

between head of Human Rights Campaign and lawyer for some conservative judicial group. A caller called in and went off on the "bible says this...abomination...blah blah" tangent. You could almost watch the dismay on the conservative guy's face when he saw that the reasonable face he was trying to put on his argument was threatened by this kind of rhetoric. He was lucky and didn't have to respond to the call.

[cheezus]

17. this issue gets them their base, but it gets us the swing vote

because with most americans, they either a) don't mind that gays get married, b) don't care that gays get married, c) don't give a rats ass what gays do so long as they don't hit on me.

there are recent terror alerts, the big news of the day is postponment of elections -- what are the republicans doing? talking about gay marraige like it's the end of the world.

[Justitia]

23. Yup, they are causing a freakish-looking backlash.

I hope it blows up in their faces.

They really should put Sanitarium on during prime time and give him his own reality show: Obsessed Homophobes - The Big Reveal!

[spanone]

24. I agree. It is shameful with all going on in the world, they debate a GMA.

It shows how shallow and desperate the right is.

[NightOwwl]

25. Me too

I was just thinking about this a few minutes ago. I think this will backfire, just like when they over-reached with the Clinton. The Repugs just don't know when to stop.

Ranting and raving about terrorist attacks and how the election might have to be "postponed." Amazing how Bush has the time to fit rewriting the constitution into his busy schedule.

According to 'Capitol Hill Blues':
Senate Democrats signaled they will not throw barriers in front of the resolution, paving the way for a vote on the amendment as early as Wednesday.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4819.shtml

Bush is a fucking idjit.