Would you want the election to be on time IF

[Poiuyt]

it meant that Bush would be re-elected?

If there were to be a terrorist attack on November 1, would the American public rally around the president?

[Myrina]

1. Fella on AA talking about state-by-state delays

THAT doesn't sound good .... if it looks like a Kerry/Edwards sweep, some states can 'delay' their voting and result reporting in any given state due to a 'terra threat' or attack.

So if Bush is losing, he can pull a last minute suprise out of his ass ??


OOOOOOOOOOhhhh, not a good omen, IMO.

[Walt Starr]

8. The law is very specific

Under Article 2, Section 1, Clause 1 of the constitution, the state legislatures determine the manner in which the electors are chosen. Any state legislature could introduce legislation today stating that a potato sack race will be held and the winners will be the electors. It would be 100% constitutional and no terrorist attack would be necessary to enact such a change in any state.

Under the same clause in the constitution, the United States Congress determines the time that the electors are chosen. They did this in Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 1 of the U.S. code. That time is the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. The Congress has also made a provision for what happens if the electors cannot be chosen in compliance with Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 1 in Section two of the same Title and chapter of the U.S. code. The State Legislature in the affected state makes the decision.

That's the law on presidential politics. Sorry if you don't like it, but it's been around for more than 100 years and requires an act of Congress to change the U.S. Code or an amendment to the constitution to alter who has authority over the time and manner of choosing electors.

[ewagner]

21. Walt...for discussion, parse this phrase...

The State Legislature in the affected state makes the decision.

If I recall the U.S. Code says that the electors will be chosen in a manner chosen by the State Legislature. That could be as a result of a rescheduled election or, it could be, that the Legislature of the State chooses the electors on it's own.

It's not clear to me.

How do you read it?

[Walt Starr]

23. The Legislatures of the states are vested with the power to determine

the manner in which the electors are chosen.

If a state legislature says there will be an egg toss competition held and the winners will be the electors, that's how it happens.

If the legislature determines that the electors will be chosen all or nothing via a coin toss, that is how they are chosen.

That's the constitution. All power in determining the manner in which the electors are chosen is granted to the state legislatures.

Under Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 2 of the U.S. code, if the election is held and the electors cannot be chosen on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, the State Legislatures have the power to do whatever they choose.

This was the final bomb waiting to be dropped in Florida. Regardless of the outcome of any vote count, Bush was going to win. If Gore had the most votes, the State Legislature (controlled by the GOP) was going to vote itself the ultimate arbiter and choose Bush's electors.

[ewagner]

24. Yes, I remember the Florida

time bomb.........

That's why I think this trial balloon is more sinister than it appears. A terrorist attack in a state with a critical number of electoral votes, with a legislature controlled by Republicans is all that is really needed.

I know, I know, this is definitely tinfoilhat stuff but it shows just how little faith I have that Bush and company will go quietly.

[Walt Starr]

25. I think they are going to pull this one out no matter what

All it takes is one Republican Legislature in one state carried by Kerry if it has enough electoral votes.

Two or more may be necessary, but this is the final solution in their plan to win at all costs! Usurp the will of the people and be 100% within the contsitution and the law!

[Spazito]

27. Yikes!

It took me a bit to understand what you were pointing out because I was thinking voters when I read "electors" and then realized my error!

[Q3JR4]

2. ...

No matter what happens, our national elections haven't ever been postponed and they shouldn't be now.

If there is a terror attack, *'s approval ratings would plummet. After all he's the "war president" who has pledged to keep us safe. All an attack would show is that he hadn't done a thing.

[bryant69]

7. I'm afraid I strongly disagree

If there was a terrorist attack the argument would be "Look at what happened in spain. This is what the terrorists want us to do, elect a cowardly concilitary appeaser like John Kerry. We need to show them that America won't back down from terrorists."

They've already set this scenario up pretty completely. I mean we might be able to turn it around, but depending on the time frame, we might not be able to.

bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ex_jew]

3. That's their right

(assuming the election was fair). A terrorist attack is just one more fact to take into account.

[MsUnderstood]

4. I would rather have a man elected president be president

Than a man appointed by the supreme court be president.

If America were to rally around the president and his popularity were to surge, do you think the election would be stopped?

No, they would say "Let us not shirk from democracy. Let us not run in fear from our enemy. Go out today and vote, vote for America."

If America would seem not to rally around the president what would be said? "Americans, it is with a heavy heart that I ask you to stay home, in safety while we find these cowards who are destroying our way of life. Please be assured your right to vote will be established soon. . .when we determined it is needed. . .er . ..safe".

Read Animal Farm--it is the perfect picture of our current administration.

[Warpy]

5. Maybe, maybe not.

A lot of people out there have realized that Bush was asleep at the switch on 9/11, that he had completely ignored the threat from Al Qaeda in favor of plotting how to attack Iraq, instead. He'd told the FBI to stop tracking known Saudi terrorists in the US. He cancelled the investigation into the Cole bombing. Simply put, he blew it.

I can't imagine any Gore voters switching to Bush. I can't imagine any fiscal conservatives voting for him, at all. It's hard to say how people would feel if he let it happen again.

[UdoKier]

6. People would rally around him because he failed AGAIN?

That would be 3 strikes - 9-11, Iraq Intel lies and another attack. How many do you think people would forgive?

[Mountainman]

9. Where is the evidence that there is going to be a terrorist attack?

This is much to do about nothing. If there is creditable evidence of a coming terrorist attack, where is it?

I'm afraid even some DUers are falling for the repub bull shit.

[Pabst Blue Democrat]

10. My 2 cents

The elections NEED to happen in a fair and timely matter, regardless of who is leading the polls and what color the Fear-o-Meter is. I just happen to believe that if they are held in a fair and timely matter, that there is no way that Bush will win.

[Walt Starr]

12. Correct, this is a trial balloon

and they know damn well and good the Executive Branch has no authority over the election of a president.

They are preparing for a time when martial law is declared setting themselves up as a military dictatorship and canceling the elections under the appearance of authority.

[Poiuyt]

28. I agree and disagree

I agree with everyone that the elections should not be postponed no matter what is going on. Bad precident and it would show the world that we can be toyed with.

I don't agree with the assumption that, if there were another attack right before the election, that Bush would be booted out of the office like they did in Spain. I just feel that Americans would rally around our president, whoever he may happen to be.

[Selwynn]

11. YES.

Elections should be "cancelled" for no one, ever, period.

The very notion should strike us as the most terrifying and absolutely unamaerican concept in the history of the country.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. At this point in time, I don't really think Santa Claus endorsing Bush

is going to help him. I cannot see the American public rallying around Bush. The fact that they have brought up the possibilty of terrorism was pretty stupid in my opinion. If they fail to protect us, how is that going to help? It'd end up more egg on the administration's face.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. Would you want John Kerry to be president IF

it meant his selection by a partisan and unconstitutional Supreme Court that overturned the will of the American people?

It's either democracy, or it isn't. You're either democrats, or you're not.

[kayell]

15. Quite an assumption to make. Elections should not be

cancelled or postponed. If we start considering situations in which this could possibly be acceptable, we play into the BFEEs hands, and we sell out our constitution along with our democratic principles.

[SheilaT]

16. Please reread what

Walt Starr has posted:

Under Article 2, Section 1, Clause 1 of the constitution, the state legislatures determine the manner in which the electors are chosen. Any state legislature could introduce legislation today stating that a potato sack race will be held and the winners will be the electors. It would be 100% constitutional and no terrorist attack would be necessary to enact such a change in any state.

I find people simply don't understand to what extent we do not directly elect the President. They really think that the total vote breakdown in each state automatically determines the electoral college vote for that state.

But each state legislature sets the rules for the selection of the electors. It's vital to remember that in 2000 the Florida state legislature was making it crystal clear that they did not care in the end how the vote count came out, THEY WERE GOING TO CERTIFY THE BUSH ELECTORS.

So all that's really needed this time around (and this is just one of many scenarios on how the election can be stolen again) is for just one or two Republican State Legislatures to decide to certify the Republican slate, no matter how the vote came out. And don't for one minute think (as one person I was discussing this with recently) that the U.S. Congress will not go along with that. The current Congress has a Republican majority in BOTH houses.

Remember the opening scenes in Fahrenheit 9/11 showing how not a single senator would come to the aid of the Black Congressional Caucus and stop the illegal installation of George W Bush as President.

It could happen again, folks. Don't kid yourselves.

[Walt Starr]

18. People just don't realize it would be 100% constitutional!

If Florida legitimately votes Kerry in a big win, the state legislature has the authority to overturn those results and certify Bush's electors. It's their right under the constitution!

I'm sorry if anybody disagrees with this, but it's the law of the land and the only way to change it is to amend the constitution!

The only reason it has never happened in the past is because it would be political suicide to usurp the will of the voters! I believe the Repukes would be willing to blow up such a suicide bomb in one or more states with Republican legislatures that go for Kerry!

Sorry folks, but the fix is in and it's 100% legitimate under the constitution!

[Generic Other]

17. The very idea that we would EVER postpone elections

is so un-American that it is proof the Bush administration consists of fascist jackboots whose understanding of the ideals of our nation are so flawed they should be put on trial for high treason.

"Oh say can you see
by the dawn's early light
what so proudly we hail
through the twilight's last gleaming,
And the rockets red glare
the bombs bursting in air
gave proof through the night
that our flag was still there..."

WHAT DO THESE WORDS MEAN, FOR CHRISSAKES? They mean that we would HONOR our country's laws and principles no matter what! That rockets and bombs could not stop us. That tyrants could not stop us. Nothing but our complete and utter destruction could stop us from defending our country from its enemies both external and INTERNAL!

We fought and won a revolution to prove that. We fought a civil war to preserve this idea. There is no compromise. Postponing or cancelling our right of free elections will signal the end of democracy in our country.

[SheilaT]

19. Here's something else to be paying attention to:

By getting the idea out there that the election could be postponed, and then NOT postponing it, too many people will then assume that the election was free, fair, and honest.

It will divert everyone's attention from however it is that they actually plan to steal it.

Have you ever had a street magician or someone do card tricks right in front of you? You NEVER figure out how they do it (unless you've learned how a particular one is done). Sleight of hand and diverting your attention is the key. And that's no doubt what will happen in November.

So don't focus on "Omigod they're going to cancel the election!" hysteria, but instead look behind the curtain and try to figure out what the man there is actually doing.

[Walt Starr]

20. How they will switch the queen for an ace up their sleeve

Simple, all it takes is one state where Kerry wins the votes, but there's a Repuke legislature willing to suicide their political careers.

They simply declare the electors cannot be certified and choose bush's electors.

100% legitimate under the constitution.

[TexasSissy]

22. Yes. It is imperative that the election occur on time.

It would set a dangerous precedent to do otherwise.

[ibegurpard]

26. I don't care if Satan himself is up for re-election

postponing or cancelling elections is a dangerous precedent that you can never come back from.