If Kerry is the "#1 liberal in the US Senate"......

[kentuck]

...and Edwards is the #4 liberal in the Senate, according to a report by the National Journal.

IF that is truly the case, what is the status of liberalism in America? Do we need to re-define "liberalism"? I do not doubt that John Kerry is a "liberal" but I question the extent of his liberalism. I do not believe he is a "far leftist". I really don't know if we can even call him a "leftist". To me, he seems to be somewhere closer to the middle, although at one time in his younger days I would have considered him a leftist.

That said, how much credence should be given to anything written by the National Journal. That would be similar to the Democrats using Mother Jones as a source...

[jean]

1. that lets Teddy off the hook!

[NMDemDist2]

2. that is a RW talking point, see Edwards true record here

As Media Matters for America previously noted, although National Journal's 2003 vote ratings of senators placed Edwards fourth, that rating was based on only 40 of Edwards's Senate votes during 2003 and is not representative of his more moderate lifetime Senate voting record. In fact, as National Journal congressional reporter Richard E. Cohen pointed out in a July 9 article, Edwards's average National Journal "liberal score" during his five years in the Senate (1999-2003) is 75.7 percent, "a number that puts him in the moderate wing of his party," and is almost 20 points lower than the 2003 rating that Republicans are touting with the help of the conservative media. National Journal's Cohen also noted that in 1999, Edwards's National Journal "liberal score" placed him as the 31st most liberal senator, in 2000, Edwards ranked 19th, in 2001, he ranked 35th, and in 2002, he ranked as the 40th most liberal among all senators -- 15 to 36 spots lower than "the fourth most liberal senator" label that Republicans and the conservative media are pushing. As Cohen wrote, "From 1999 to 2002, Edwards had ranked among the more conservative Democratic senators. In 2002, only 11 of the 50 Senate Democrats voted more conservatively."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407120004

[rpannier]

3. Kerry #1, Edwards #4???

Where's Senators Boxer, Murray, Kennedy, Leahy, Feingold, Akaka, Byrd, Dayton, Harkin, Mikuski, Levin, Rockefeller and Stebenow on that list.
Weird definition of Liberal.

[sybylla]

8. That's what I'd like to know

Those numbers never made any sense to me and I'd like to see the source. Should have known it was reich wing BS.

[emulatorloo]

10. The ranking is from a liberal lobby group - see my post 9 and 7

Not right wing group.

[kentuck]

13. Sorry, I confused it with the National Review.....

:(

[emulatorloo]

16. No I am not sure you did - sometimes they cite ADA sometimes they

cite national review.

[sybylla]

19. It is reich wing BS to call Kerry the most liberal

They are taking a statistic out of context(most liberal voting record of candidates) to scare people.

And I still have to question the criteria that would place Kucinich, even with his anti choice votes under Kerry. And I have yet to meet a liberal that would put LIEberman left of Gephardt.

Is liberalness really so hard to measure?

[emulatorloo]

9. ADA ranked the primary candidates Kerry 1, Edwards 4

ADA is a liberal lobbying group. The other senators you mention weren't running. If you visit their other pages you can see thier ranking of other senators.

------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.adaction.org/Campaign2004/2004PR_1/2004pr_1.HTM

<snip>

2004 Presidential Candidates’ Lifetime ADA Voting Ratings

Sen. John Kerry                                          92
Former Sen. Moseley Braun                      88
Rep. Dennis Kucinich                                 86
Sen. John Edwards                                      85
Sen. Joseph Lieberman                              78
Rep. Richard Gephardt                             74



Presidential Candidates General Wesley Clark, Governor Howard Dean, Reverend Al Sharpton, and President George W. Bush do not have lifetime ratings because they have never held office in either the U.S. House of Representatives or the U.S. Senate. Their stances on issues along with the candidates listed above are available on our “Issues” page. 

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. Holy Joe is ranked at #5 ?

Guess that proves this poll is bullshit.

[emulatorloo]

17. Read the issues they ranked n/t

[GreenArrow]

4. it's dead

R.I.P.

[Commendatori]

5. They should defend the label, not run from it

I'd rather see him stand up and defend his voting record than try to pass himself off as a moderate. I realize that "I voted for it before I voted against it" has been blown way out of proportion, but it was stupid to even try something like that.

Senator, if you or your aides are reading this: just stand up and say "yes, I voted that way, and I'd do it again" for everything you did. If one vote appears to contradict an earlier one, just say "well, of course, because back then we didn't have the ---- situation" (or something similar).

If our side has a better record than Bush, why the hell not trumpet it? Running away from labels can't possibly be good election strategy, because the people who think "liberal" is an obscenity are dittoheads and Freepers whose vote you'll never get anyway.

[kentuck]

6. A caller to C-SPAN said, "..tell them to just go to the dictionary"

Of course, they never use the dictionary's definiton of "liberal", they prefer to use Limbaugh's or the right-wing definition... I thought she made a good point.

[emulatorloo]

18. He was doing a "If it is liberal to support

education, balanced budgets, etc etc then call me a liberal. If this is the best they've got, give me a break. The american people deserve better"


sorry for the bad paraphrase - I heard him say it during the primaries, I am sure we will hear it again.

[Commendatori]

20. I sure hope you're right.

We've got the best of both worlds - a better label and an asshole trying to use it as an insult. We couldn't ask for more. I don't want to see Kerry blow this chance, you could drive a truck through this hole.

[emulatorloo]

7. NOT the National Journal; It is Americans for Democratic Action ranking

They are not a right wing group - they consider themselves a liberal group. They deplore GWB. They are for all the right things.

You can go to the site and see what their criteria is.

Here is the page of Dem candidates, with the votes/issues they are looking at:

http://www.adaction.org/Campaign2004/2004PR_1/2004pr_1.HTM

Here is the home page:

http://www.adaction.org/

From the About the ADA page:

<snip>

ADA is America's oldest independent liberal lobbying organization. In the spirit of the New Deal and ADA founders Eleanor Roosevelt, renowned economist John Kenneth Galbraith, and former Senator and Vice President Hubert Humphrey we lobby through coalition partnerships, through direct advocacy, and through the media. Our lobbying philosophy is based on democratic action - motivating our grassroots members to lobby their senators and representatives as constituent-advocates. With 65,000 members nationwide, numerous state and local chapters, and its headquarters in the District of Colombia actively engaging in the political process, ADA continually strives to push for democratic and progressive values and ideals in American policy. Our founders included Eleanor Roosevelt, labor leader Walter Reuther, economist John Kenneth Galbraith, historian Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, and former Vice President Hubert Humphrey.

<snip>

[SidDithers]

11. Maybe "far leftists" or even "leftists" can't get elected....

Maybe the population is moderate to conservative. So those who get elected are along the scale of slightly left to far right, and the far left gets left out.

Sid

[Cats Against Frist]

12. Read this -- it will answer all of your questions

http://www.cursor.org/stories/fascismintroduction.php

The country is in a pre-fascist state, and the elected officials of the GOP have had 20 years now to go from people who use far-right tactics, to people who actually believe it.

They've absorbed and legitimized their wackos -- and through hate radio, they're resonating it through the country. Sheltered Americans, brought up to believe in the legitimacy of the press ("why would they put him on TV if he's crazy?"), are ill equipped to distinguish this hate radio from good information.

"Liberal" ideas -- generally the ideas we've had that support fairness, civil rights, freedom of religion, decency, environmentalism, workers' rights and equality are being demonized. And they're trying to turn liberals into the new "Jew."

I fear for this nation.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Graded on a curve?

:shrug:

[LynneSin]

21. According to the American Conservative Union:

Here are the conservative rankings for democrats in office (lower means less conservative which would mean more liberal)

Cantwall-WA - 13
Murray-WA - 3
Wyden-OR - 10
Boxer-CA - 2
Feinstein-CA - 11
Reid-NV - 21
Baucus-MT - 13
Bingaman-NM - 13
Conrad-ND - 20
Dorgan-ND - 17
Daschle-SD - 13
Johnson-SD - 21
Neslon-NE - 51
Breaux-LA - 46
Landrieu-LA - 15
Lincoln-AR - 22
Pryor-AR - 30
Harkin-IA - 9
Dayton-MN - 9
Feingold-WI - 12
Kohl-WI - 16
Durbin-IL - 7
Bayh-IN - 22
Levin-MI - 7
Stabenow-MI - 12
Leahy-VT - 6
Reed-RI - 6
Kerry-MA - 5
Kennedy-MA - 3
Biden-DE - 14
Carper-DE - 19
Mikulski-MD - 7
Sarbanes-MD - 5
Clinton-NY - 11
Schumer-NY - 6
Byrd-WV - 31
Rockefeller-WV - 10
Edwards-NC - 12
Miller-GA - 65
Graham-FL - 19
Nelson-FL - 17
Akaka-HI - 9
Inouye-HI - 7

http://acuratings.com/index.cgi

So you see - the most liberal democrats in the senate would be Murray, Kennedy and the most liberal - Boxer.

As for Edwards being rated 4, nah, there are at least a dozen other senators with lower ratings than Edwards like the pair from Hawaii, Mayrland, Ney York and many others

[AntiCoup2K4]

22. The hell with these "lifetime ratings"

I want to see a ranking of their ratings since the Florida Coup. How have they voted since the illegal overthrow of the US government by a cabal of treasonous double agents of the Likud party.

I can guarantee a lot of these ratings would get a lot worse. On the other hand, Robert Byrd's would probably improve considerably.

Such a ranking would be not only legitmate, but neccessary. The question demands an answer: Senators, where were you when your country needed you the most?