My friend the sucker wants to join the military

[RummyTheDummy]

A friend of mine from high school who is now 33 with a wife, two kids and a mortgage wants to join the National Guard. He's gone so far as to go through some of the preliminary testing and they have now cleared him to enter basic training, possibly as early as Oct.

He's not a supporter of BushCo. He's really fairly A-political when it comes to presidential politics, though he is somewhat religous. This all started when Pat Tillman died.

Another DUer (also a HS friend of his) and I have ferociously tried to talk him out of it. I've sent him graphic images of the war. He, to his credit, even went to see F9/11 recently and admitted enjoying the film. I've done everything I can do.

I fear for him because he wants to go to Iraq or Afghanistan "to help out". He doesn't understand National Guard troops, despite the Pentagon spin, aren't particularly well trained or equipped in comparison to the regular Army and Marine forces.

Is there anything else I can do? Have any other DUers talked friends out of fighting for Haliburton?

[2Design]

1. tell him to join the navy or air force if he wants to do good..and just

has to be in fighting uniform....

[RummyTheDummy]

4. That was my first move

But he wants to be on the ground in one of the two fronts. He's hell bent on it.

[BrotherBuzz]

20. The Air Force is no guarantee

http://charleston.net/stories/070804/loc_08airmen.shtml

25 Local Airmen to Assist Army in Iraq
BY TERRY JOYCE
Of The Post and Courier Staff

About 25 airmen from Charleston Air Force Base will head to Iraq next month to help the Army operate military convoys, a move linked to the Army's attempt to supplement a fighting force stretched by the war on terrorism.

"We'll be driving Humvees, tractor-trailers, even larger vehicles," said Senior Airman Richard Cleary, a vehicle operator with the 437th Logistics Support Squadron. Cleary and Staff Sgt. Josh Bolner, a vehicle maintenance supervisor, are part of Charleston's active-duty military who are being sent to help the Army on the ground in Iraq.

Air Force units from other bases started sending airmen to Iraq in January to help the Army in similar roles. But this upcoming deployment marks the first time truck drivers and mechanics from Charleston's active-duty force will ride herd on Army convoys in combat.

The decision to use Air Force airmen in a traditional Army role hardly seems out of place considering how tightly the Army is stretched fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Last month, the Army said it would recall more than 5,600 individual reservists who had completed their active-duty stints but had no affiliation with reserve or National Guard outfits. The Pentagon also has extended tours in Iraq for some soldiers due to come home, while a stop-loss order has kept troops in or headed to Iraq from getting out of the military, even if they've fulfilled their commitments.

<more>

They need warm bodies in Iraq anyway they can get them. The draft isn't far behind if Bush* steals this election.

On edit: bad speilling day

[Arianrhod]

28. He's too old.

Only the Army would take him now; their age limit for enlistment is 36.

[Parche]

2. Military

The Military is a great force to be in.
But only when you use them for what they are there for

Our Military is for our defense only, not to illegally invade other countries.

[proud patriot]

3. Sounds like your friend wants to help fellow troops

which is quite honorable IMO .

I'll never forget the line from "Black Hawk Down"
"It's not about the politics , it's about the man next to you."

[joefree1]

5. Read "Generation Kill"

At least he'll know what he's getting into. Also he should stock up on insurrance for his family.

[RummyTheDummy]

6. I'm pretty sure most life insurance policies don't cover acts of war

NT

[HootieMcBoob]

24. The military has its own life insurance policy

last I knew it was for around $200,000 and cost about $12 per month that they take out of your check.

[zbdent]

7. Stop trying to stop him, and tell him that you'll be praying for

his safe return to his family.

Aside from the fact that they'd probably take a warm, breathing body, do you think that he'd make it through basic?

[saigon68]

8. People like this come home in boxes

err sorry----transfer cases

LOL

[RummyTheDummy]

11. Yeah, he's in pretty good shape

And has been working out furiously for the last few months. He initially wanted to go into the Marine reserves but was told they wouldn't take him because of his age so it came down to the National Guard. Interestingly, he asked some pretty tough questions of his "recruiters". They were up front with him and told him every single unit of our state's National Guard is activated and overseas. In not so many words, they told him he signed up, there was a high probablity he will be going overseas, probably to Iraq. At least they were somewhat truthful.

But you're right. I've given it the best effort I can. Sometimes people just have to do their own thing I guess, dumb or not.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Remind him that there is plenty of things he could do right here

at home that would be far more useful.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

10. You cannot save someone from themselves

Wish him the best. Work for a Kerry victory. Sounds like that's all you can do for him at this point.

[jukes]

12. your friend has a serious emotional problem

"helping out" is a very poor reason to desert his family. the guy is being completely selfish & wants to live out some personal fantasy.


i suggest an ambush intervention w/his wife & children, & as many of family/friends that you can muster.

[RummyTheDummy]

13. His wife and kids have been supportive

Which just blows my mind. His wife is a rabid Repug, though, but also very nice. But he did admit today that they have started slipping the phrase "you don't have to do this" into the conversations about it.

[Nay]

16. Agreed, Jukes.

That was my first thought -- he's living out some personal fantasy about heroism, etc. and has totally blown off his family responsibilities. If I were the wife, I'd sign up for whatever national guard life insurance plan was available and I'd start making plans for him not to come home. The poster above who said that people like this come home in body bags is on the money.

[UrbScotty]

14. SUCKER? Far from it.

The military is NOT for suckers. Risking your life is a very honorable thing.

[RummyTheDummy]

17. Ummmmmm

That would be true, if it weren't for the fact this war was based on a lie. Dying for the greater good of Haliburton just doesn't have the same ring to it as dying on the beaches of Normandy, does it?

[UrbScotty]

27. Do our troops deserve less gratitude simply because their superiors lied?

If they do, why?

Besides voting, how can low-ranking military personnel control what their commander-in-chief orders them to? If they can, show me how.

My dad was in the Army Reserve from 1971 to 1979. If, he had been called up to Vietnam (which he almost was), I certainly wouldn't think of him as any less a person.

I certainly don't think of John Forbes Kerry as any less a person for fighting in Vietnam.

Our troops are willing to die for their country - or whatever their commander-in-chief orders them to (which, again, they can't control, except by voting). They are going through so much in Iraq.

Oh, and BTW: Are all Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Mearines, and Guardsmen Republicans? FAR from it. I doubt 3/5 are.

[RummyTheDummy]

29. A couple of things

1. People who willfully join the military in 2004 and think they are somehow serving their country are in fact victims of deception or financial desperation. They can control their fate by not joining the military. They can control the actions of their leaders by booting their sorry asses out of office.

2. Comparisons to Vietnam aren't valid. There was a draft during that war and that's how most people ended up there. In the majority of cases it wasn't by choice.

3. I in no way mean to demean the sacrifices of our soldiers. Many got in before BushCo. took office and for a variety of reasons. But in fact our country, our leaders, the jingoistic icons like Toby Keith, perpetuate the out right myth this war is valid and therefore a worthwhile cause to lay down their lives. This war was based on lies and deception, unless you buy the White House line. In doing that they show a total lack of respect for the grunts who pay the ultimate price for their dog and pony show.

4. I'm well aware of the dispersement of political affiliation in the military. As previously noted, this person is not a Repug nor was there any attempt to paint the military with a broad, Repug brush.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. It's for kids who think that killing is noble.

Throw in a little adolescent machoism and a bucket of brainwashing and you have your average GI.

[Monte Carlo]

22. That's a disgusting over-simplification.

Whether or not you think the American military is some alien entity that doesn't concern you at all, the average GI is not a monster or a bully or a glory hound. No normal person enjoys killing people, including GIs.

[FighttheFuture]

31. And you know this with certainty? How?

In any pool of people, a distribution will occur. Our military is large enough that you will have all sorts, including those who want to kill, and enjoy killing, and have no qualms getting their "buddies" killed.

Stop making such blanket statements and think.

They aren't all saints and angles in the military, and all you need is a few bad apples. Look at our politics today.

Respect those who are in conflict, for they are at least asking the questions. Question and chastise those who are not, for they are suckers or psychopaths in training.

[FighttheFuture]

30. Double sucker!!

Risking and sacrificing your life for another, for your country, for your beliefs is noble on a personal level. Good for them that do so.

It does not preclude you from being played the patsy, the mark, the gull, the S-U-C-K-E-R!!

When we lanch wars and aggressive actions against others, against other nations, for our own needs, without consideration, it is RAPE. America is well practiced in this throughout it's history. IRAQ happens to be one of the more horrid, and boneheaded, examples in current history.

Those who are losing their life were noble, for they took their oaths and did there duty. But it is a personal sacrifice. Honor them, but never forget, they were played for suckers, as we all are in this mess.

Anyone who joins now knowing what is happening (or not) is either a sucker being played the fool, or is a rephensible human being who lacks or as a compromised moral center.


What if our "fearless leaders" called for a war, and no one came?

[Brewman_Jax]

15. I did

but the guy in question was looking for a steady job, not out of some misplaced notion of patriotism. I reminded him that if the enemy's in range, then you are, too. (from Murphy's Laws of Combat) He decided that living safe was the better option.

Ask your friend if he wants to be around to watch his kids grow up, or leave the task to his wife, and possibly another man, should he return in a flag-draped box or too messed up to be a father and husband. :think:

Forcing the flag-waving zombies to think may not wake them completely, but may stop them from making things worse.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Show him some photos of dead Iraqi civilians (collateral damage)

and ask him if that's what he wants to do to "help out".

[fob]

21. In a local paper here, bay area california, there was an ad for body bags.

$20. Buy him one and send/give it to him without commentary. Shake his hand, give him a hug, then give him the body bag, do NOT explain what it is, turn and walk away.

Harsh, yes. But the alternative is exponentially worse.

[FighttheFuture]

23. That's great! We need to weed morons out of the gene pool. Encourage him!

[Monte Carlo]

25. Perhaps then he is looking to do something meaningful?

I respect the role the military plays in our society, but it is not the only way to contribute to it. We can't ALL be soldiers, or nothing meaningful would ever get done.

His family... I can't imagine they would be too enthusiastic about Dad being shipped off to the middle of the desert for a few years. Maybe he needs some reminding of what he has here at home, and that there is plenty of worthwhile work to do right here.

[Jacobin]

26. Some people find danger and extreme risk which has the

potential to make them "heros" very very attractive.

I have a feeling he's bored, doesn't like being around his family that much, wants some travel and adventure and doesn't give a shit about the "cause" or whether it'll do any good.

He's looking for cheap thrills disguised as "patriotism". He's now part of the Storm Troopers, and he can't complain that he didn't know what BushCo is up to.