3 Repubs reactions to Fahrenheit 911.....

[kerry-is-my-prez]

I brought my Repub neighbor to the movie (she had asked me to go because a friend had told her it was good). It did open her eyes to a large extent - she had always believed all the b.s. coming out of the white house. BUT it didn't seem to turn her against Bush. She was saying "This country sucks. All the politicians suck. This film didn't really turn me against Bush that much. It's not really Bush's fault it's all of them." wtf!

I told her that it was Bush and Co. that started it all up. She said "I can hardly wait to vote this November." When I talked to her today she was still on the "All of them suck" think. I told her about PNAC and told her that she didn't want to vote for anyone who was a PNAC'er or who was influenced by a PNAC'er. I'm going to continue to work on her. She was quite affected by the movie and thought it was good.

I had to drag my brother to it kicking and screaming. He already knew most of the info from the film and was not very impressed. He was born and raised a Repub and lives amongst them and he's also a "follower" so he continues to go along with the program.

The other Repub must have had cotton in her ears because it doesn't seem like anything sunk in. She still thinks that there is/was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and she still is all paranoid about terrorism and all Arabs. She also thinks that the Patriot Act is not such a bad idea.

So it doesn't seem that the film made much of an impact with these people as far as turning them against Bush. My neighbor is a "maybe."

So I'd say the score is Bush 2.5 vs. Kerry .5

[tom_paine]

1. When you consider the slavish and unquestioning nature of Totalitarians

(Nazis, Commies, Busheviks, etc.)

Actually 0.5/3 is pretty good.

You think you could get 0.5/3 with nazis or Commies?

No way!

You think it's a defeat, I think it's a successs.

If you can turn ONE Heinrich Himmler into an Oskar Schindler, you're doing OK.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

2. She's only halfway there..... but I think she's "gettable"

n/t

[Tweed]

3. Your neighbor may turn around..

When was the last time that you had an argument that stood against everything you believed in and just dropped everything like that. It takes time for our minds to change. That's why I think Moore released the movie 4 months before the election. People need time to change their minds on matters that are so important. Especially if they have been raised all their lives to think one way or the other. I would continue to work the neighbor over.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

4. She hangs out with me and my Dem. friends so there is hope.

Her husband is a Repub but she doesn't listen to him anyways.

[WilliamPitt]

7. One for three = .333 batting average = hall of fame = margin of victory

[lastliberalintexas]

5. Oh, the irony

"I told her about PNAC and told her that she didn't want to vote for anyone who was a PNAC'er or who was influenced by a PNAC'er."


Anyhoo, you've done good. You have to start somehwere, and getting them to start thinking about current events is simply the first step. Just keep working on them!

[info being]

If you don't have a heart...the film doesn't affect you

[Goldmund]

6. They all suck

but some suck more than others.

[DeadHead67]

8. There are many who don't have a clue !

Millions and Millions of American's political consciousness is non-existent. For them the freedoms we enjoy here in this wonderful country and the incredible abundance of goods and services, ARE A GIVEN!!! They don't vote! They let others do it for them. They won't realize anything's wrong until there is no gas for the SUV, or the electricity goes off and they have no air-conditioning or can't use the tanning bed. OR, better still they get a bill from Halliburton/Brown/Root for the air that they breathe. They started to wake up on 9/11 but quickly returned to sleep, lulled by the promised security of the Patriot act. It will take a real national disaster or the positive equivalent to make us ONE NATION again. (I left the 'under God' out of the phrase in respect to non-believers) I'm just not sure what it will take. I'll get off the soapbox now.
:grr:

[Lex]

9. I bet that some people can't admit they are wrong,

but when they get in the voting booth by themselves in November, they may just pull the lever for Kerry.

[nomatrix]

10. Cheer up, read the letters at Michael Moore's site

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/breakingnews/index.php?id=55

After you read record breaking theater attendance, take the time to read letters from soldiers serving, families and veterans.

The soldiers who wrote feel so helpless, pawns, with no one but Michael getting the message through.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/dudewheresmycountry/soldierletters/index.php

A Soldiers Poem is right on.

As to you movies goers....I understand how frustrating it is. I've lost some friends, especially one who was very close through this divide. Before Bush took over, I explained how he was gathering a war cabinet, and that it was clear there would be another war, one that would probably take her grandsons to fight. Knowing this, if it were an unjust war, would she still think it wise to vote for him? Even it it was just to finish what his father started?

I do not understand the mentality of those who see collateral damage, suffering at any price, as matter-of-fact.

They are the first to whine about the smallest inconveniences in their world (it's too hot, waiting for an appointment, etc)
So when I hear one make these complaints
Too hot-
"It's 130 degrees in Baghdad with no electricity, or showers"

waiting for anything-
"Imagine counting the days to come home from Iraq, then you're extended, indefinitely. Imagine serving, then being called back in."

[Unperson 309]

11. Forward This To Your Rep Friends!

309 here. You don't know me, nor I you, but I think you will find my commentary intersting and thought provoking.

Becasue I don't know you, I have no idea how old you are. I am nearing sixty. It is this fact that gives me a bit of perspective on the whole middle east thing. If you are near my age, you may want to think back. back to the Fifties, sixties, seventies... What was the earliest you heard of the Middle East? What were your impressions?

My impressions were of the standard stuff: belly dancing, tours of Egypt, camels, things like that. Beautiful almond eyed women and strong silent men. We didn't think of terrorists. What changed?

When our leaders say "They hate us for our freedoms", stop and think. Are we as free as we were in 1906? In 1888? In 1953? Of course we are. Arabic people knew of America in those years, and they weren't hating us then. at least not badly enough to send people here to hurt us. And think of all the countries which are at least as free as we are! Canada, Britain, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Mexico, France, Australia, Germany... the list goes on and on of countries which are either democracies or are free, self governing lands. Why are the Middle Eastern people not hating THEM for their freedoms?

Why us? Why now? Have you heard the messages sent by the media every time someone is captured, tortured, beheaded? The messages are the same, over and over. "Leave our lands! Leave us alone! Release our prisoners!"

Look arounde you. Are you at home? Look at your furnishings, your clothing. Doubtless you have selected each item with an eye to how it pleases you. Do you love this home of yours? Think of your husband (or wife) of your children. Imagine never seeing them again. Think of the upcoming election. Would you feel so strongly about something that you would walk out the door of your home, knowing you would never see it again, to strap explosives around yourself because you plan to die for something you believe in? Think of this on a personal level, of your spouse coming home to find you were dead... Could you do it? Could you feel something so strongly, so fiercely, so DESPERATELY that you would deprive your children of a parent for the rest of their lives?

We in America don't have to do this. What makes those in the Middle East feel that they DO have to? It's not insanity. It's not hatred. It's desperation! Arabic people are as sane as you are, or myself. They tend to have large loving, close knit families. Now... Imagine you come home from work and open the paper. There, on the front page, naked, lying on the floor with a collar around his neck and blood coming from fresh dog bites, is your son. The boy you gave birth to, raised, loved, hoped to see married and successful... and he is frantically trying to cover his naked genitalia as a woman in rubber gloves points mockingly.

What would you do? How would you feel? To understand the roots of this conflict you must understand that we are doing things to THEM for reasons which are not legitimate! Did the man standing on that box with wires attached to his fingers and genitalia, did HE fly that plane into the World Trade Center? Did his country? Three fourths of the men who DID fly planes into the World Trade Center carried SAUDI passports, and yet we have done NOTHING to Saudi Arabia! Why?

Imagine that the attacks on us on 9/11 occurred and we then recieved a message that this was in retaliation for what Canada had done to them! 3,000 people dead because Canada, or England or Australia had attacked the Middle East... Would you be outraged? Of course you would! Saudi Arabia is as different from Iraq as Australia is from the United States! It's a different country! Why do the Iraqis fgight us so violently? If swarms of Arabic soldiers were in YOUR streets, shooting at your neighbors because of something England did, would YOU not fight?

Now... Look at the administration which has gotten us into this.
They told you sincerely that Iraq was connected to 9/11 and you believed them. Now they admit there is no connection. They told you that Saddam Hussein had weapons that they could use against us. Where are they? So far, every reason (and the reasons keep changing, don't they?) has been shown to be false or on VERY shaky grounds.

You are paying for this excursion into Iraq. You will be paying for the rest of your life as will your children and theirs. If you are my age or near it, you may well remember a thing called the National Debt. It was (and is) the debt we, as a nation, owe for government spending on such things as defense, GNP trade deficits, the infrastructure etc. Did you feel a flutter of shock when the surplus we had plunged into a deficit?

You are a conservative. There was t a time, and I remember it well, when being a conservative was a PROUD thing to be. You and I stood for smaller, lighter government. We stood for non-interventionism in other lands. We stood for RESPONSIBILITY, both national and personal and we stood for privacy and independence. I was a Republican for many years. I voted for Nixon, for Reagan. I was proud to do so.

I'm not proud now. When I see MY political party presiding over bloated agencies like Homeland Defense and covering up secret meetings (the very stuff we hated Hillary for!) and weaseling on meanings like the definition of torture (didn't we rage against Bill for the definition of 'is'?), I cringe! When a man who said "We will bring honor and decency back into the White House" covers for someone who feloniously revealed the identity of a CIA agent, I begin to wonder. When a vice president says, on the senate FLOOR "Go fuck yourself!" I shudder and wonder... at least during the infamous blow job, the President had the common decency to lock the door!

I am not asking you to change your mind. I am simply asking you to LOOK at the men who say they carry your banner and mine. Who say they have your best interests at heart. Ask yourself... "DO they?"
One coincidence, OK, I can buy that. Two? Yeah. Three, four, five, a dozen? When countries are invaded by companies HEADED by those in charge of the military, when obscene profits are raked in by friends of the ones in power... I begin to wonder. I am asking you to wonder also.

Thank you for your time. If you stay with your beliefs as they are, now, AFTER you have investigated these things, I salute you as a person of firm conviction. If you change your mind, I salute you as well. It is not easy to look back at what you believed and see that you have been lied to, hoodwinked, misled and taken for granted. I know. I've felt that for three and a half years.

God bless and keep you well. I remain, your fellow citizen:

Unperson 309

[hippiegranny]

12. incredible, 309

glad to have read this. thanks.