Bill Cosby

[Tosca]

Whoah. Cosby, for weeks, has been criticizing black folks for not holding up their end of the deal...in terms of education for their kids, frivolous rap music, disrespect for black women, etc.

He's obviously mad as hell. The implication is...black people are letting themselves down. And he speaks about not being able to blame whitey anymore.

He's adamant about education and his claim that a lot of black kids see seeking an education as going the white way.

Explosive stuff.

[Deja Q]

1. Hey hey hey, where's the link?

:-)

[jokerman93]

96. Cosby is Right n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Cosby busted his ass during the 60's and risked his career

in order to point out the fundamental oppressions of the system toward black people...much like some of us worked toward equal treatment for women...when one invests so much of themselves and sees ground lost, it is bound to result in controversial statements...I don't fault him in the least for making those statements.

[noiretextatique]

7. cosby didn't do anything that countless others did as well

and none of them are sounding like trent lott now. cosby can go cheney himself.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. I've seen lots of his comments and I don't think he is generalizing

unfairly...although if he were to be more suscinct, he would acknowledge that it is YOUTH culture on the whoel, not just young black people and that it HARMS them worse than a white kid.

Anyway, I don't really agree with the tack he has taken to communicate this....

[noiretextatique]

104. i have seen his comments

and i do think he is generalizing unfairly, and using some tired stereotypes in the process. that's why his message is resonating with THE WRONG PEOPLE. "what's wrong with kids today" is standard old fart fare. does he have a point somewhere is what he's saying...he does. and his delivery was terrible.

[Tosca]

8. Cosby is a race man.

And that signifies true, deep identification with his race. A good, beneficial thing.

He's simply disgusted with young black people who don't even speak coherently in the English language. Because it's not COOL.

[Sandpiper]

10. The best way for an older person to completely marginalize themself

With young people is to start wagging their finger and railing about the "evils" of "kids today."

'Twas always thus, and thus will always be.

[noiretextatique]

19. what is not cool is stererotyping

young black people is a country that is no stranger to racist stereotypes of ALL black people.

[Tosca]

14. I don't blame him either.

He's speaking the truth, hoping young people will wake the fuck up and realize staying in school is the thing to do.

Ask Obama if this is not true!!!

[noiretextatique]

20. staying in school is a great message

for all american kids to hear. they would probably hear it better if they weren't ridiculed during the message.

[Sandpiper]

24. You'd half expect him to burst into a chorus of

"Kids! I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!"

[noiretextatique]

33. yeah....it's partly that

it's also that he's playing to his audience, not to the people he's talking about.

[oasis]

34. Cosby was involved in the struggle for civil rights for 40 years. He has

conferred with black leaders throughout the world.

I bow to his wisdom in these matters.

[playahata1]

38. That does not give him the right, let alone the authority,

to talk down to people -- especially people who do not share his experience, especially to people who have not benefitted from the movement. The civil rights movement benefited only those who were prepared to enter the so-called "mainstream."

[noiretextatique]

43. could this be *gasp* a CLASS issue?

nah, cosby has been on the front lines...blah, blah, blah.

[Sandpiper]

50. Yes, who better to act as an authority

On the struggles of young, and poor minorities today than a 67 year old with a nine figure fortune, walled up in a mansion in Bel Air.

Yessir, he's right out there in the trenches.

[noiretextatique]

54. LOL...too funny

:7 LMAO actually, Sandpiper :hi:

[DoctorWeird]

57. Ha! Nailed it!

Thanks.

[Kanary]

99. "Class issue"......bingo......

Cos is looking down on others from on high, and then getting angrier because people, including kids, don't repsond to that attitude.

Yup, Cos is copping a 'tude, and that has never worked to get people to change.

Somewhere along the line, he developed quite an ego, and it's getting in his way.

Either he needs to really look at himself, or realize that he *isn't* the one to bring this message.

Kanary

[oasis]

48. Those who wished to be excluded from the "so-called mainstream" were

easily accomodated. Cosby helped to remove the obstacles of racism for those who sought the "American Dream".

[noiretextatique]

49. oh please...he's an actor and a comedian

nothing wrong with that, but let's not overstate his importance. and let's not forget that he wasn't the only one. not everyone who fought for civil rights spoke perfect english or went to college.

[oasis]

59. It wasn't that long ago that Cos held the title of "America's father". His

teevee family was America's family. He took the respect that America had for him seriously and became a widely acclaimed role model.

He is a terrific human being, actor and activist.

[DrWeird]

63. Yes, a terrific role-model.

At least while he's not chain smoking cigars, hanging out at the playboy mansion, and having children out of wedlock.

[noiretextatique]

65. america...not BLACK america

what's so hard to comprehend about that? i don't know that he's such a great human being, but i appreciate his activist efforts.

[playahata1]

68. Let us not forget that the entire civil rights/black power movement

was not simply about black people being able to go to Harvard, work for a Fortune 500 company, sit next to white people in a restaurant, being able to ride in the front of the bus. It is all about black people's attaining BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, which go far beyond some vague "realization" of the "American Dream."

[playahata1]

55. What do you mean by "wished to be excluded"?

Not everyone wanted, not everyone wants, to live the "American Dream," however that is defined. There are people of all races, creeds, and colors who just want to be left the hell alone to live their lives. They don't need some big-shot celebrity who they don't know and who doesn't know them telling them what to do and what to believe in.

Cosby does not speak, and should not claim to speak, for all African Americans. He may claim to speak about and for black people in the mass, but he has little to no understanding about black people as individuals. This "spokesperson" business is what has gotten people in trouble in the first place.

[noiretextatique]

62. pathology theory

this is the bottom line of what cosby is talking about. forget about the systemic racism that continues to promote and tolerate disparity...if only those black people could be like bill cosby: they too could have the american dream.
this is why his comments bother me...they are consistent with this "theory" that has been existence as long as black people have been in this country. it was used to justify slavery, it was used to justofy jim crow...it will continue to be used as a way to avoid the real problem.
simply put: no amount of TALK about individual responsibility will change a problem that was created not because of lack of individual responsibility, but because of discrimination. sure...individual responsibility plays a role, but it's not a panacea from this problem anymore than it is for the problems poor whites face.

[oasis]

70. "Spokesperson"???. I don't believe he claimed to be a spokesperson

for black people. However, he could teach a class on what it takes to be a success in life.

[playahata1]

78. How do you -- never mind Cosby -- define "success" ?

Is it how much money you make? The type of house you live in? The type of neighborhood you live in?

I am a college professor, but I also am of the opinion that college is not for everyone. (Hence, there should be more emphasis on vocational education for those who don't want to go to college. But that's another thread.) The point is, there are other and different routes to "success" in this country. Not everyone "makes it" by playing by the rules, or, as an artist friend (RIP, Ed) once put it, "coloring between the lines."

Education is not the end-all, be-all; just ask all those folks with degrees who are un- and underemployed. Pay attention to the changes in the economy -- globally as well as nationally. Things are not the same today as they were when Cosby was a kid, and Cosby conveniently forgets that fact.

[oasis]

89. Not being a loser in life: success. BTW, education is the key to wiping

out the ignorance we have in the world.

Cosby stresses the importance of education. And so do I.

[noiretextatique]

92. define "loser"

thanks.

[oasis]

101. I'd likely agree with you on what a "loser" is. (eom)

[noiretextatique]

106. i don't routinely call people "losers"

it's an adjective i'd use to describe someone's character.

[oasis]

125. That's commendable. And I sincerely mean that. (eom)

[DrWeird]

94. So you mean:

dropping out of college to start a career in stand up comedy?

That's how Cosby is going to teach black kids how to succeed, by being a good role model?

[oasis]

103. He's not asking anyone to be a carbon copy of himself.

[noiretextatique]

107. actually..i think he is, or rather, that's how his comments

are taken by people like the person who started this thread. if you don't get a college degree...you're doomed. if you don't act a certain way or speak a certain way...you're doomed. and of course, that isn't true. you don't have to be speak perfect english or have a college degree to be a successful person in life. i doubt that most of the people defending cosby's statements have done what the claim others should do.

[oasis]

119. Cosby believes that education is the key to "going places". Note

I didn't use the word "success". Getting a good education is his basic message.

[playahata1]

100. Then what is a "loser"?

If I like gangsta rap, am I a loser?
If I am a 15-year-old girl with a child, am I a loser? (A very good friend of mine had two children by the time she was 17. Now she is the director of the School of Social Work at the university at which I will begin teaching this fall.)
If I wear jeans that are about to fall off my ass, am I a loser?
If my name is Shaquana (and one of the best students I ever taught was named Shaquana, BTW), am I a loser?
If I dress like a hooker, am I a loser?
If I live in "da 'hood," am I a loser?
If I like to drink 40 oz malt liquor, am I a loser?

Have you -- or Bill Cosby -- ever tried to engage these "losers" up, close, and personal? Have you ever tried to find out WHY they do what they do, dress as they do, instead of stereotyping and dissing them?

[oasis]

108. I dissed no one. That's your list. There is no strict formula for being

a loser. There are losers from every walk of life.

[playahata1]

113. You still haven't answered the question:

What is a "loser"?

[oasis]

121. Those who are on the road to doing nothing with their lives and ignore

helpful words of advice. Hope that will suffice for now. I gotta go and stuff some envelopes.

[playahata1]

127. How do you know that these people are

"on the road to doing nothing with their lives"? And how is what Cosby is babbling about "helpful"? You don't help people by disrespecting them.

[oasis]

130. That was my defination of "loser". It did not necessarily apply to the

"people" you are talking about.

I have top go stuff some envelopes right now.

[noiretextatique]

39. wisdom? when he shows some again

i might listen to him. of late all he's done is regurgitate some tired stererotypes.

[oasis]

52. IMO, you have your act together. Cos is preaching to those who don't.

[noiretextatique]

56. newsflash: they don't even know who he is!!!!

cosby is not exactly a well-known (or respected) figure among the people he's talking about...i'd bet money on it. and cosby didn't do SHIT for me.

[Tosca]

71. That's their loss

And yours.

[playahata1]

84. See post #80.

n/t

[noiretextatique]

90. how is it my loss? please enlighten me

oh great one...please show us po' ignorant black folks the way. with you and mr. cosby of belair, i just know i can make it :puke:

i have a BA in Psychology, and a MA in business...and you?

[Sandpiper]

3. Bill Cosby's criticism of rap

Mostly just comes across as the ranting of a crotchety old man.

[DrWeird]

4. Blues and jazz, however...

why that's just fine.

[medeak]

6. Cosby in Las Vegas

appeared there when family was in the business. Came on stage and denounced the white audience 20 years ago in the most hateful manner and walked off. Something about middle class whites or some such and it was beneath him to perform for them. Opening night for a new hotel to boot. Haven't had much respect for the guy since..certain he collected a heafty amt of $.

Don't listen to his arrogant ramblings...this a guy who lectures morality and had a child out of wedlock he wouldn't acknowledge even tho sending $ to the mother. And the the Osbourne rant..criticising their family values. Give me a break. Look in the mirror Mr. Cosby.

Richard Pryor did the same but liked his way better. My Dad was orchestra leader and said Pryor walked on....looked at the white audience and just muttered under his breath "I don't need this shit" and turned around...left my Dad playing music for a very long time.

[playahata1]

42. and once upon a time, even those two genres

were looked down upon by so-called "respectable Negroes."

[Tosca]

5. Yeah?

Where's the link?

[noiretextatique]

9. most of his shit does

he sounds like a nitwit, and he needs to shut his mouth. dr. weird posted a thread with some of his comments, and frankly, i don't think he even means well. i think he's just on a rant.

[Sandpiper]

11. Super rich, cranky old hypocrite

Trying to tell ordinary people how to live their lives.

That's pretty much Bill Cosby in a nutshell these days.

[noiretextatique]

13. i agree...

he sounds like my father...well, when my father talks about bush anyway. my father actually has a better understanding of other things than does cosby.

[DrWeird]

47. Worth repeating.

This was not compiled by me, but LiberalGuerilla (?)

Cosby on the Black poor:
"Lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' "

Cosby on Black youth culture:
"People putting their clothes on backwards: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? ... People with their hats on backwards, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up to the crack and got all type of needles going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from? Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damn thing "
Cosby on civil rights:
"Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. We have to go in there – forget about telling your child to go into the Peace Corps – it is right around the corner. They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English."

Cosby on literacy:
"Basketball players – multimillionaires – can't write a paragraph. Football players – multimillionaires – can't read. Yes, multimillionaires. Well, Brown versus Board of Education: Where are we today? They paved the way, but what did we do with it? That white man, he's laughing. He's got to be laughing: 50 percent drop out, the rest of them are in prison."

Cosby on poor Black women:
"Five, six children – same woman – eight, 10 different husbands or whatever. Pretty soon you are going to have DNA cards to tell who you are making love to. You don't know who this is. It might be your grandmother. I am telling you, they're young enough! Hey, you have a baby when you are 12; your baby turns 13 and has a baby. How old are you? Huh? Grandmother! By the time you are 12 you can have sex with your grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I'm just predicting."

Cosby on the sons and daughters of poor, Black, unmarried mothers:
"…with names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Cosby on Blacks shot by police:
"These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

[LuminousX]

12. Ever since his son was killed, he has been a bit crotchety

he has forgotten that he himself was a slang using comedian in his youth.

[liberalmuse]

15. I guess things change...

when a person gets a lot of money. Easy for him to say. He was one of the lucky few Americans who are able to climb out of their socio-economic rung in life. I like Cosby, but don't agree with many of his recent statements. Hey, it's great if you can blend in with whitey and make it in his world, but why would most blacks even want to? Why would anyone want to?

[Tosca]

17. Blend in...

What a ridiculous statement. Don't you know? When you're black, it's IMPOSSIBLE to BLEND in.

Naivete is a wonderful thing.

[noiretextatique]

18. tell that to clarence thomas

he seems to blend just fine.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

28. the point is: it is incorrect to say

as you did that black people can't/don't "blend in." thomas is but one example.

[Forkboy]

111. Toiletblue?

:eyes:

[Heddi]

126. I saw that too

Rather rude and below the belt, imo. I guess if you can't disagree with someone else's opinion, you can always take the low-road and make personal attacks and denegrate someone's name.....

Amazing how predictable certain threads get after a while, eh? It's like I'm Miz Cleo. I can just look at the title of a thread and instantly know what comments (or at least what kind of comments) I can find inside.

Perhaps I should set up a 1-900 number and charge folks $3.99 a minute to tell them about threads they haven't even opened yet....



"Call meh now, bebe's!"

[DoctorWeird]

16. As a hispanic, I hate when the super wealthy look down

on other members of my race. To me it's salt in the wound that someone who should be sympathetic is so self absorbed they think that they are better than everyone else.
Kids, in general, will always be a disappointment to elders, regardless of race. And the stop blaming "whitey"? No minority blames whitey, they simply wish for it to be acknowledged that being White is like winning a genetic lottery as far as succeeding in this capitalistic economy where only fifty years ago racism was flagrant. It's still flagrant today sometimes, I was reading on Yahoo that Migrant workers in California have an unusually high death rate. I read through the posts and found lots of "GOOD THOSE WETBACKS BREED LIKE RATS ANYWAY." Compassionate conservativism.

[Tosca]

21. What are you talking about?

"As a hispanic, I hate when the super wealthy look down
on other members of my race."

Is Bill Cosby hispanic?

[DoctorWeird]

22. It's a comparison, surely you could tell that

Both Hispanics and African Americans are minorities and both have and do experience discrimination. Both represent a disproportionately large part of the underclass and both are chided by conservatives for "taking advantage of the system."
I mentioned it because speaking from experience, I hate it when it is done to me, and I imagine that afro-americans hate it moreso when a large figure does it to them.
Clear enough for you?

[noiretextatique]

23. I'm black...and i wish he's shut the fuck up

is that better?

[Tosca]

26. I'm white.

And I hope he keeps voicing his opinion. How's that?

[noiretextatique]

29. i'm not surprised

since his message is resonsates more with you than with the people he's talking about. as to his opinion...everyone has one, and his is popular in america...no surprise there.

[Tosca]

32. I'm not surprised either.

I'm never surprised by common sense.

[noiretextatique]

36. cosby 's comments are little different than

those of any number of white and black conservatives. the difference with him is that because he is the messenger, he reaches a wider audience. unfortuntely, i doubt many of the people he was talking about have any idea who he is, or what he said.

[Tosca]

73. Well, you certainly did!

So spread the word. Ha ha.

[DoctorWeird]

31. You haven't experience discrimination yourself

Thus, you can't know what it's like to have someone treat you completely different based on your last name and how you look. Cosby's basic message "education-good" is valid, but as someone pointed out earlier, to attack specifically black kids is counter productive. Affirmative action was meant to "level the playing field." Until that happens, while not blaming "whitey" it needs to be understood that minorities are at a distinct disadvantage.

On Edit: Thus, the blame cannot be laid at their feet as though they are at fault for their situation.

[Tosca]

40. Right, I've never experienced discrimination or sexism or whatever

I'm a woman. What planet do YOU live on? Your arguments are as weak as watered-down piss.

[DoctorWeird]

46. Yeah, I'm a woman too

Which argument are you attacking specifically? That ALL kids tend to disappoint? That blacks have had a distinct disadvantage? And as far as the woman thing, if you think it's hard being a woman, try being a minority woman.

[Tosca]

51. I CAN"T be a minority woman.

Because I'm NOT one. I can only BE who I AM. And I make no apologies for being a NON-minority woman. So there.

[DoctorWeird]

53. EXACTLY!

Thus, as much as you read, study, whatever on the subject, you can't know what it is like to be a minority. You are not on the side that he is attacking. You aren't even near it.

You know damn well Im not expecting you to apologize for anything. What I do expect is for you to recognize when you don't have the authority to speak on a subject.

[Tosca]

58. Education is a GOOD thing!

All Cosby is saying, is stay in school. All Cosby is saying, is ignore street shit and try to stay in school. All Cosby is saying is that education will take you to better places. Study! Study!

What the hell is so wrong with that message?

[DrWeird]

61. Um, no, that's not what Cosby's saying.

See above.

[DoctorWeird]

66. That's a great message but it's not all he's saying

And in what he is saying, he's perpetuating stereotypes. What about defending kids getting shot for shoplifting? 1.) Blacks are certainly not the only kids that shoplift and 2.) They're kids! There is nothing that justifies killing kids. His arguments about the "family" remind me of right wing rants. Again, blacks are not the only people that have a few members who sleep around, but he makes it seem like it is.

[noiretextatique]

69. nothing is wrong with that message

and i think that's one of his great messages. unfortunately, that's not what he's been saying of late.

[bigbillhaywood]

37. Wait, wait, wait. We got a white woman who started a thread about Cosby

and is defending his attack on poor and working-class Black people? Okay this is bullshit. A Black person may deserve some deference on even this classist bullshit. But a white person defending it? This fucking thread should be locked.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

72. "As a white person, I agree with Cosby's racist statements."

"The problem with black people is that frivolous rap music, and they disrespect women, and they give themselves stupid names, and they don't talk like intelligent white people. It's explosive!...
but all he's really saying is, education. So stop saying that."

:eyes:

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

76. You keep telling people they're not worth responding to.

...but by doing so, you're responding. What's the deal with that? And you're not even contributing anything. Or responding to how I pointed out you've completely backtracked on what you said in your original post.

Have I met you before in a past life?

[playahata1]

80. Oh, and you are so freaking superior to everyone else in this thread.

Surely you condescend.

[DrWeird]

83. Well, she is a white woman.

and she agrees with Bill Cosby.

So it's not hard to guess her views on superiority.

[noiretextatique]

91. she won't dignify your comments with a response

i'd thought i'd let you knwo before she does :eyes:

[noiretextatique]

87. why don't you respond?

you have no problem supporting his comments, so why not defend this thread you started?

[RoeBear]

60. I am black also...

...and his 'get an eduacation' is a good message.

I busted my ass at GM for 30 years, made a good living, but hated every minute that I worked at the shop. I insisted my kids get good grades in school and go on to college. They did. Now they are making near as much as I did at my peak but...get this...THEY LOVE THEIR JOBS! They actually wake up wanting to go to work! And it's all because of the opportunities that are opened when you get yourself educated.

[Tosca]

77. Bool yah!

Yes, it's education. It's key.

[DoctorWeird]

79. NOBODY is arguing that education is the issue

Nobody on this board is saying that Cosby promoting education is wrong. The problem is the other things he is saying.

[DrWeird]

88. That's what you call backpedaling.

Notice earlier in the thread how it's all about rap music and ebonics.

[noiretextatique]

97. how much it do you have? since it's so key

i asked in another post, and i'll ask again. what are your educational accomplishments? thanks.

[bigbillhaywood]

134. "Bool yah!" Someone who, indirectly, through stressing the importance

of Bill Cosby's comments on education, really does nothing to change the fact I am a white woman using Bill Cosby's comments to justify my own racism against poor Black youth.

[noiretextatique]

81. much respect, roebear...but

do you think hoardes of black kids will be rushing into college...because bill cosby says they should?
i grew up with the importance of education drilled into to me everyday...i got the message, just as your children did. i got that message and the larger message because of the time when i came of age...i knew my place in the larger context of the struggle my people endured in this country. i knew it was my duty to continue that struggle, and i knew the means to do that was to go to college.
if there was one thing cosby said recently that i do agree with it's this: it's time for a resurgence of the black power movement. that movement, and the larger civil rights movement provided a context for my generation, one that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
opportunities are great, and i am blessed to have many because i have skills, and i can think. but i know i owe a part of my ambition, and certainly my motivation to knowing i was a part of something much larger. on the days i feel like complaining about my job, i remember that my grandmother, no matter how well educated she was, could only work as a janitor in the building where i now work as an accountant.

[RoeBear]

139. You got to get to the parents...

...is my thought.

[resist]

114. No one argues that he has his points

But I do find it a little bit offensive that he sits there with his millions and his degrees (honorary) and tells the entire black race what they ought to do.

He doesn't offer much help, does he? And it sounds a lot easier than it is to do. Anyone who's tried to convince kids to give up those stupid hang around your rear end jeans knows how hard it is. These are typical kids who look for their props from their peers, not their parents.

Add to that the fact that there are no jobs for teenage kids anymore, certainly not in the numbers we need; the poverty that frequently requires two working parents so the child is unsupervised much of the time; and a rock solid belief that no matter what you do whitey is not going to let you in the club - unless you learn to do the white thing better than him, which is a sell out so you'll be damned if you do that.

Perhaps if Mr. Cosby offered to use his money and his influence to do something for kids when they are not in school. Something that would entertain them, train them, show them a new way. But he seems to just want to say stop whining and learn to play the white game. That is a bit offensive.

[RoeBear]

142. I really wish that I had...

spelt 'education' right. :+

[bigbillhaywood]

27. Classist bullshit. Bourgeois Black man attacking the weakest sector

of African-Americans-- the poor and working-class-- and blaming them. Find me a race/ethnicity where the upper-class don't blame the lower-class for all their woes and I'll buy you a Cadillac (just kidding, I don't have the money to buy myself one).

[Sandpiper]

30. Not to mention Generation Gap bullshit

Find me a race/ethnicity where the older generation doesn't like to lay blame on "those damned kids today" for all of society's perceived ills.

60 always seems to have a way of forgetting what 16 was like.

[DoctorWeird]

35. Well said

EOM

[demgurl]

41. I really think highly of him for putting his money where his mouth is.

After all those comments, he heard about a young black kid who was forced/kicked out/had to leave his house for some reason. The kid had moved into an apartment and was struggling to work a job but still go to school and get an education.

Bill heard about this kid and was impressed enough to anti up the money and put him through college. It is one thing to rant and rave but I really admire a person who backs up what they say. I hope he looks for more folks to help.

I am white and I do not agree with some of the things that it has been reported he has said but I still admire this latest action.

[noiretextatique]

45. that is admirable, and i give cosby props for that

eom

[Tosca]

95. But Cosby is still

an old, high-class fart who doesn't understand the poor black's plight in this evil world, where all they have is rap and cool clothes and their own language.

[noiretextatique]

98. that's true...but at least he's willing to spend some of his money

if he wasn't black, would you have any problem grasping that a 67 year old man from bel air is probably not popular among 20 year olds in south central?

[playahata1]

110. And that is all that you see?

There is a point to "rap" and the "cool clothes" and "their own language." Furthermore, it is much more than that; you need to go beyond the superficialities and find out what's really behind all that.

[noiretextatique]

115. why bother?

why not let a 67 year old man from bel air explain it instead :eyes:

[PoiBoy]

44. "Mr. Cosby, my name is Kiah.."

An inspiring response...

http://www.blackcommentator.com/96/96_cosby.html

<snip>
"…with names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.” – Bill Cosby quoted at the gala event honoring the 50th anniversary of Brown v Board of Education, May 17, 2004

Mr. Cosby, you may think my name is “crap,” but it actually means “seasons beginning” in Kiswahili. I was born on December 20th, the end of fall and the beginning of winter. My parents bought a book of names before I was born and read it over and over again until they found one they liked. At school, some of my friend’s names are: Shameka, Makeeba, Shaquana and Kashia and none of us are in jail. I don’t know what all my friends’ names mean, but I know they don’t mean failure. We go to middle school, get decent grades and live pretty normal lives.
<end>

and this is from a 13 year old....

<snip>
I hope that when I am ready to send in my resume for a job, that the person reading it will judge me by my qualifications and not the spelling of my name. I think that someone should not stereotype a child by their name and definitely not tease them because it is different.
<end>

progressive kids are just too cool!

:hi:

[Forkboy]

75. I still think "Chicken Heart" is a great bit

:P

[daligirrl]

82. I'll speak as an African American about Cosby. . .

He has some good points and he has some bad delivery sometimes, too. I know where he's coming from. But, just like everything else, nothing can be defined in terms of black and white. We need the discussion. If you want to talk about these same issues with a true intellectual, read some Cornel West. But understand that there are many issues in the Black community, just as there are amongst liberals here at DU.

[noiretextatique]

93. wow...what a sensible response

couldn't have said it better myself...except you're kinder than i :D

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[playahata1]

117. Like you are some freaking all-knowing Goddess or something!

And enough of the "reverse racist" crap.

[DoctorWeird]

122. If you were black, you might not have the same ideas.

EOM

[Heddi]

129. Wow! You're on a roll tonight!

Calling Noiretblu a racist? Denegrating her name? Boy! When all else fails and you can't disagree on the merits of an argument, just pull out the personal attacks. VERY MATURE :not:

[bigbillhaywood]

140. Gee, if I were a racist white lady from Worcester. Shouldve expected

this from a 508er.

[playahata1]

141. Also, check out the work of Michael Eric Dyson.

He is even more in tune with the "boyz" and "girlz" in "the 'hood," because he has not forgotten that he was once -- and still considers himself -- one of them, even though he has a doctorate from Princeton, even though he has taught at Brown and Penn, among other places, even though he is one of America's leading social and cultural critics.

Instead of distancing himself from and dissing the underclass, Dyson tries to understand where the Thugs and the Hoochie-Mamas and the Crips and the Bloods and the Playas and the Ballas and Hustlas are coming from, why they do what they do, why they are what they are. He understands that negative social, political, and economic forces have created the 'hood. While he, like Cornel West, calls for black people to take charge of their lives, he, like Cornel West, also understands that racism has a part to play in the predicament in which the black underclass finds itself.

For me, Michael Eric Dyson is even more credible than Cosby. This is a man from inner-city Detroit who had won several local and regional oratorical contests in elementary and junior high school. He did so well in school that, after his junior year in high school, he was awarded a scholarship to Cranbrook Academy (in suburban Detroit), one of the nation's leading prep schools. However, he experienced racism and other negative incidents, and eventually flunked out. He eventually finished high school, yet he fathered a child out of wedlock at 18, married his son's mother (whom he eventually divorced), and went on welfare and worked at numerous minimum-wage jobs to support his family.

By age 21, Dyson felt he was wasting his life and his talents, so he left Detroit in 1980 and enrolled at historically black Knoxville (Tennessee) College, eventually transferring to Carson-Newman College, from which he graduated with honors in philosophy. (He was the first person in his family to earn a college degree.) He had also become an ordained Baptist minister, pastoring several small congregations in rural Tennessee. Eventually Dyson made it to Princeton, from which he earned a Ph.D. in religion in 1993, by which time he'd already begun to gain a reputation as a leading sociocultural critic. Meanwhile, while Dyson was at Princeton, one of his younger brothers went to prison for second-degree murder, and Everett Dyson-Bey is still incarcerated. Thus, Dyson has not entirely escaped the reality that most of his peers have experienced.

Here is the Dyson Library (that which I have read):

Reflecting Black
Making Malcolm
Between God and Gangsta Rap
Race Rules
Open Mike
Holler If You Hear Me: Searching for Tupac Shakur
The Michael Eric Dyson Reader
Why I Love Black Women

Dyson has also written books on Martin Luther King, Jr., and Marvin Gaye.

[Robin Hood]

85. This has already been covered here. Cosby is a self hating old fool.

The old fool was making sweeping generalizations that would have made Rush Limbaugh proud. It is not the black community who has let blacks down. It is racist/republicans who have worked hard to keep the black community in the crapper. Rap music and the expression of the ghetto hardships is just that, an expression of the life that's been handed to them.

Do you realize that at the height of popularity of the Cosby show, We had Rodney King and the LA riots? Cosby is a sell out idiot fool who lost touch with his community long ago, now he is ashamed to be even remotely associated with black America.

[Robin Hood]

86. This has already been covered here. Cosby is a self hating old fool.

The old fool was making sweeping generalizations that would have made Rush Limbaugh proud. It is not the black community who has let blacks down. It is racist/republicans who have worked hard to keep the black community in the crapper. Rap music and the expression of the ghetto hardships is just that, an expression of the life that's been handed to them.

Do you realize that at the height of popularity of the Cosby show, We had Rodney King and the LA riots? Cosby is a sell out idiot fool who lost touch with his community long ago, now he is ashamed to be even remotely associated with black America.

[Tosca]

102. What an incredibly stupid thing to say

/It is not the black community who has let blacks down. It is racist/republicans who have worked hard to keep the black community in the crapper.

You know, blaming them for everything just makes you look ridiculous.

[Robin Hood]

105. Excuse me?

16 years of Reaganomics. 10 years of a republican controlled house and Senate. Rampant racist practices embedded in our culture. But it obviously hasn't affected you so it must not exist.

Pull yuor head out your butt and get some fresh air.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoctorWeird]

120. Reagonomics didn't end the second Reagon left office.

EOM

[playahata1]

123. Reagnomics is still going on.

It continued under Bush I. Clinton interrupted for eight years. But the shit has started again with Bush II. 8+4+4=16.

[Robin Hood]

149. Don't confuse them with math. It's fuzzy to them.

The party of stupid racists. Look at what they're lack of math understanding has done to the deficit. Idiots.

[noiretextatique]

112. blaming "them" for everything?!?!?

isn't that why you like cosby's statements so much? he doesn't mention any societal context whatsoever...it's strictly "personal responsibility"...a very republican mantra, btw.
so which "them" shouldn't "be blamed for everything?"

[Tosca]

144. Gosh, I'll never mention race in here again.

Hey, did you catch Chris Rock's HBO special where he said:

If you REALLY want to SCARE a nigger, show him a BOOK! He'll run away so fast!!

Chris Rock. He was explaining the difference between a black person and a nigger.

He's kinda young, eh? Certainly not Cosby's age.

[Forkboy]

116. Sticking up for them makes YOU look ridiculous

among many other things.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[playahata1]

128. Sticking up for racist whites and their mouthpieces in blackface.

Mouthpieces like Bill Cosby.

[Forkboy]

132. Yes,that "them"

thank you playahata!

[Forkboy]

131. Like "Toiletblue" was meaningful?

Like I said,"among many other things".

[Heddi]

133. Yes! Just like calling the OP

Noiretblu a racist just because she has a difference of opinion.

Meaningful and specific indeed

:introducing pot to kettle:

[Heddi]

148. Eek! I worded that wrong---It should have said

YES! Just like the OP calling Noiretblu a racist just because she has a difference of opinion.

Meaningful and specific indeed!

:introducing pot to kettle:

---clarified so that Forkboy didn't think I was responding about him, but rather agreeing about his post. I had transposed 2 words in the title which could make it seem that I was making a statement about Forkboy, when instead I was making a statement about the rash of personal attacks (thankfully mostly deleted) in this thread and the inability of some people to stay on topic instead of resorting to petty 3rd grade name calling --

[TeacherCreature]

135. I have read this thread and all of your responses Tosca

It is clear you were looking for a flame war and responding to induce one. What's up with that?

By the way I think you were asked several times to give your eduction credentials since you were preaching at others about education. Care to share exactly why it is that you are so superior?

[Forkboy]

136. Do a search on her posts

spells a clear picture.

[bigbillhaywood]

143. That 508er is on the fast track to

the DU graveyard.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tosca]

145. Teachercreature

Where was it clear I was looking for a flamewar? Please cite specifics.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

137. I have a question

I am a white woman. I have African-American friends. I teach in a school that is about 20% white, 50% Hispanic and 30% African-American. I work a lot with Boys and Girls Club of America, the one in my town that serves lower income minority kids. I thin they are a great resource for those kids and support them every way I can.

My question: is there anything more I can do? I'm serious. I want to know. I want to know on behalf of all of us who want to do something to bring up all people in poverty, but especially those who are Hispanic, Asian, African-American, first generation American, etc.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

150. No answers?

Or ideas?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

138. Hmm

I, Too, Sing America
Langston Hughes

I, too, sing America.

I am the darker brother.
They send me to eat in the kitchen
When company comes,
But I laugh,
And eat well,
And grow strong.

Tomorrow,
I'll be at the table
When company comes.
Nobody'll dare
Say to me,
"Eat in the kitchen,"
Then.

Besides,
They'll see how beautiful I am
And be ashamed--

I, too, am America.


From The Collected Poems of Langston Hughes, published by Knopf and Vintage Books. Copyright © 1994 by the Estate of Langston Hughes. All rights reserved. Used by permission of Harold Ober Associates Incorporated.

[mark414]

147. EVERYONE READ THESE (sorry for the caps)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/230619.asp

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/231392.asp

both by local cynic eugene kane, the man's one hell of a writer. the first article is him criticizing cosby for his remarks, the second is his column about his phone conversation with cosby after his first article.