It is stunning!!!!

[Disturbed]

Rumsfailed publicly admitted...


that he violated The Geneva Convetion and therefore The Constitution of the USA when he stated that he had moved a detainee from Iraq to a secret prison in Afhganistan then 4 months later moved that same detainee back to Abu Grahaib but not listing that detainee on the prison list.

Nothing has been done about that!!!!

Ex. CIA Dir. Tenet is the person that requested that his be done. He is also guilty.

Nothing has been done about that!!!!

Both men say that they are fully responsible for their actions yet no accountablity has been exacted.

Does the US Govt. and Congress no longer hold anyone accountable for violations of The Constitution of the USA?

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. They're all REPUBLICANS

controlling every branch of our government. NOTHING will ever happen to those people. They should all be sitting in jail, but it will never happen. Our government is corrupt. Period.

[Snoggera]

4. Our government is corrupt. Period.

I call that period, raise you 5 exclamation points.

[StandUpGuy]

10. I see your 5 exclamatiion points

and raise you a WTF

Sweet post BTW

[punpirate]

2. Um, who runs Congress these days?

Uh, who runs the Justice Department?

For this bunch, partisan concerns always outweigh doing the right thing.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

3. Accounta-what now?

And what's this "Constitution" you speak of? Intriguing. Does it have any sort of force or effect, like rulings from right-wing judges or Bush's executive orders?

[Elidor]

5. It is stunning. And no, nobody is accountable anymore.

We have a Reichstag in the place of the U.S. Congress. They've made themselves meaningless. I wonder if it's sunk in to them yet.

[Disturbed]

7. Has anyone read the Declaration of Independence?

It may get to the point that it must be acted upon...again!

[2Design]

6. only those making less than 50000 are tried and jailed or if they

are a woman like martha stewart who generously gave to the dems...
they will be after whoopie goldberg soon...and trying to put her in jail for something...

[Snoggera]

8. I didn't used to have any sympathy for Martha

but my thoughts have changed over the past few months. I still think she deserves some type of restitution and wrist-slap type of retribution, but not jail time.

Hell, they'll be after all of us soon if things go their way.

[Cleita]

9. What Martha did is what our President Bush did with Harken Energy.

No one is asking him for accountability. I wonder if he would lie about it under oath too, if anyone bothered to ask?

[Snoggera]

11. No accountability because

he never has to say anything under oath. He's somehow above the rest of the people living in this country, remember?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but think what he did with Harken had to be much worse.

[2Design]

12. no it is not the same....

she did not pre meditate the crime...bush did and for 8000000 dollars....

she lied. They did to her like clinton....pushed her into a corner....until she lied...then got her...

she could just give cooking, house decorating lessons and free stuff to the poor people for 3 months....that would be more appropriate and usefull...

[mermaid]

14. But They Aren't ABOUT "Appropriate And Useful"

They ARE about making examples of people who dare step over the lines they have drawn, and therefore become a thrteat to the self-aggrandizers who drew the lines (to their benefit) in the first place.

Do you not yet understand how America REALLY works??

[mermaid]

13. Of Course!!

You ever thought it was any other way? Prisons are there to contain people who are dangerous to the system that keeps the wealthy wealthy...and the rest of us in abject poverty.

The junkie who uses a pen-knife to hold up a 7-eleven for fifty bucks and a Mars Bar will get far more prison time than Ken Lay, who stole MILLIONS from employees and investors, ruined families, careers, pensions, stole the nest eggs some people had spent a lifetime building...and he will walk.

come, let me educate you, my son...

sing along with me now...tune of "I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing"

I'd like to teach the world to live
In abject poverty
I'd like to load them up with chains
And make them work for me!

don't believe me...check this out...

A note of thanks from the rich scum of America: http://www.namebase.org/richnote.html

[olddem43]

15. Well said, Mermaid -

It's good to hear from someone who understands what this country is all about. We are the losers in the class warfare that's been going on for a hundred and fifty years.

[mermaid]

16. But It's Not Class Warfare

See, it is only Class Warfare when WE, the losing side, whine about the unfairness of the system. The other side is framing the debate, you see.

Yes, they have been playing class warfare for 200 years now...but it isn't "class warfare" when it is THEM practicing it on US. Only when we expose it for what it is. Then, our actions become "class warfare." Because, didn't you know, we're supposed to be good little slaves for the self-aggrandizers of the world? And part of being a good little slave is not calling attention to the fact that we all are slaves.

See, when THEY engage in class warfare, they call it "making hard choices in bad economic times."
Lemme translate that for you, gimme a sec...i'm pulling out my "Aristocrat-English Dictionary..." ah, yes...here it is...
Translation: "If one of us is gonna take it on the chin, it sure as HELL isn't gonna be ME, bub. So why don't you just go fuck off now, I gotta make out this check for my next Beemer payment! Who gives a fuck if YOU even EAT or not...I don't feel it when YOU go hungry! Fuck you, I have the power to never take the hit, and so I'm not going to...you are!"

[olddem43]

20. You have it exactly right - they even select the name of the issue

like in "right-to-work" laws. We need to have a committee or department that names issues to suit ourselves. "Welfare for greedy corporate executives" comes to mind.

[mermaid]

21. Right-To-Work Is The Biggest JOKE...

more like, right to be fired...

It is a serious misnomer. Right-To-Work laws impede union organization, so that workers can collectively bargain for better working conditions and pay, etc.

again, I'm gonna have to look that one up in my "Aristocrat - English Dictionary..."

Fact is...it is ALWAYS the little guy who gets screwed in our system. And the Dems, while little better than the Reps, these days...at least THEY throw us a few crumbs once in a while. Until a viable third party is a real option, we get the choice of the "lesser of two evils."

Ask yourself...if you are a wage-earner (and that means about 70% of the country at least) would you rather have the guy who will throw you a few crumbs...or the guy who will come in with a Dustbuster to take what few crumbs you already have away from you?


Think about it.

[mermaid]

23. Welfare For Greedy Corporations

Yep. And it is getting worse! It started out with professional sports teams holding cities hostage to building them new ballparks. It has since exploded in every direction.

Now, big corporations demand special favors and tax abatements, etc...to locate facilities in certain cities...and play cities off against one another, and locate to where they will get the most. And who pays for the tax abatements? Why, none other than John Q. Public!

Prime example of this:
Recently, Home Depot has been talking about opening a data-processing facility that will create 500 new jobs. My city, austin, I believe, has won the negotiations, and it looks as if they will come here. But what did it cost us??
They will pay half their fair share in property taxes for the first ten years...and that is just at the county level...they also got incentives from the City of Austin, as well as a reduction in the school taxes they will pay. Well, who is gonna pick up that slack??

And what's to guarantee they will STAY here after 10 years, once the abatements expire? What's to say ten years from now, they will not hold us hostage to giving them more abatements, or they will pull their 500 jobs? what's to say they will not, once again, play off cities against one another for these 500 jobs?

Similarly, Samsung just got a sweet deal from our city-owned electric utility, Austin Energy, to update the power grid to meet Samsung's power needs, so that they can expand their chip-making facility here in Austin. And they, too, got incentives and tax abatements from the city, the county, and the school board. well, who's gonna pay for that? John Q. Public!!

We will pay higher taxes in order that huge corporations don't have to. Because if we don't, they will go elsewhere where they will...and they therefore can hold us hostage to constantly giving them more and more and more...and we poor workers and citizens...end up picking up the slack that these corporations are not paying their fair share!

But what choice have we? They have the ability to do this...to hold cities hostage to giving them tax abatements (read: welfare) by threatening to locate elsewhere, and taking their jobs with them.

The huge corporations are so much like the bully kid, who, if you ever stood up to him...wahhhhhh, you won't play in a way that gives ME the advantage, so I'm gonna take my ball and go home...wahhh...."

Is there any way to put an end to this sort of thing?

If we don't do it here, then they will ship the jobs overseas where possible, so they can save money by paying substandard wages in third-world countries. It does not seem like there is even a way for us to reverse the tide of corporate welfare...

[shimmergal]

24. There's one thing cities could do

(if their citoy councils or whatever had the guts.)

They could at least write in a provision that any co. receiving tax abatement for moving an operation there, would forfeit their real estate there to the city if they move out within....oh, say, fifty years.

After all, they can't take it with them when they go. Confiscating it might be a wake-up call to others, too.

Any legal types want to look into how this could be acocmplished?

[mermaid]

25. Good Idea!!

I was thinking in terms of writing into the tax-abatement agreements that..no further abatements would be allowed, and, if they failed to stay for a certain length of time (after the abatement period...paying FULL TAXES) then they would be required to reimburse the cities, counties, etc, the amount they saved under the abatement.

but it would require ALL cities to go along. And only one city willing to look the other way, in order to gain a "competitive advantage" would fuck the whole thing up! I think there almost needs to be Federal legislation addressing this, so that one city couldn't fuck it all up.

But don't look for any of our legislators, anywhere, to grow a spine on this one any time soon!

[Ripley]

17. I agree about Plutocracy, but the rest of us in abject poverty?

I'm not. I bet you are not. I bet no one on this board is in abject poverty, because how could we afford a connection to use this internet board?

Just saying that this "we're either rich or dirt poor" is a crap argument. There are folks who live ok. Granted under Smirkaholic it's hard to say what could happen next as far as a catastrophy that could make us all dead or something...

[mermaid]

18. Comparatively Speaking

yes. We live in abject poverty, comparatively speaking.

The rich self-aggrandizers throw just as many of us as they have to...the occasional crumb, enough to barely sustain us...to keep us peaceful.


eventually, they will get stuoid, and forget to see to throwing us that occasional crumb,and collectively, we will look up from the stanchions we all have been munching from...and realize what has been going on, and then we will revolt. they know it. And they give us just enough to keep critical mass from gathering, and threatening their lofty position.

but this Bush Administration has just gone too far. they have overstepped, and overreached...and more and more...Americans are waking up to realize what I've known since the Reagan era.

[Ripley]

19. The rich have been calling the shots long before

Raygun. Remember the Railroad barons? Hell, the history of America is that it has always been ruled by rich people. The crumbs thrown have usually been from Dems. That's what the debate should be about.

Entitlements are not robbing regular people from their hard-earned money...entitlements help every single American when they get in that situation.

DuH. Not duh...to you Mermaid...duh to the voting idiots... ;)

[leesa]

22. No there is no longer any law for our government. Nor is there any law

for Israel. Both are rogue states in the act of destroying not only many people around them but destroying themselves as well.

[donsu]

26. where have you been? we are not a democracy anymore

the criminal bushgang is in charge of everything.

we haven't stopped them from doing anything they wanted to.

yet.