Republicans tell two black women to shut up

[ThatPoetGuy]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=703&e=4&u=/ap/20040716/ap_on_go_co/house_florida_fight

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/212784p-183225c.html

In the last few days they have tried to silence Rep. Corinne Brown and Whoopi Goldberg, for speaking out against Bush.

Apparently Republicans think black women shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech.

Make sure people hear about this.

[gristy]

1. Republicans try to shout down all folks whose ideas they disagree with

Would what is going on be any different if Goldberg and Brown were white? Perhaps in some of the details. But they still would have been told to shut up.

[Poorwhitetrash]

82. Your right.

All Re pugs are racist..

[dbt]

2. That's about the dumbest shit that men do.

You'd think we would have learned, over thousands of years.

:shrug:
dbt

[DarkPhenyx]

4. OOOOOOOOOoooooo, look!

Another cute sexist comment.

[TeacherCreature]

10. Poor pitiful powerless white guys getting picked on again?

poor babies! How oh how have you all ever survived all these years? :cry:

[DarkPhenyx]

12. And uninformed sarcasm too! Neat!

This is most entertaining. What bigoted preconvception do you want to demonstrate next?

[TeacherCreature]

25. uninformed sarcasm...lol

what is a "preconvception"?

[DarkPhenyx]

28. that would be a typo

which makes "harping on irrelevant typos and grammatical errors" the answer to my "what's next" question.

[ThatPoetGuy]

30. Why?

DarkPhenix, as I write this reply there are 28 posts on this thread.

Twelve of them are yours.

What is compelling you to come back to this thread again and again and attempt to thrash anyone whose view differs from yours?

[DarkPhenyx]

31. the ultimately fruitless hope that...

...eventually sanity will grasp hold of the human psyche, and that we could actually have a rational discussion about issues.

That and the humor being provided by TeacherCreature.

[redqueen]

32. No, never

the divide must be accentuated at all times so that infighting is exploited to maximum efficiency.

[ThatPoetGuy]

33. I have been trying...

check it out, I've been trying to engage in a rational discussion of ideas and issues with you.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThatPoetGuy]

156. Thanks Skittles!

It's good to know that IGNORE is my friend! Will you be my friend too?

[Skittles]

174. sure babe

:D

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tomee450]

186. I think

I'll have to join you. Trying to debate a person who is deep in denial is an exercise in futility.

[DarkPhenyx]

3. So what they are black. Big deal.

It dosen't have anything to do with their being silenced. Jesus Christ they tell everyone to shut up. Race has nothing to do with it, and playing that card makes us look like complete jackasses.

[ThatPoetGuy]

6. That card.

"Diversity promoter Asa Khalif... cried foul in the Goldberg firing. 'I smell racism from beginning to end,' said Khalif, head of Racial Unity USA in Pennsylvania. 'SlimFast must realize that black women have every right to voice their views.'"

It's the truth. You know in your heart that the right wing was upset about Goldberg making sexual jokes about Bush's name because they thought she was being uppity.

And this card is part of a winning hand, right now, what with the conflict between Bush and the NAACP.

[DarkPhenyx]

7. "The winning hand"

Oh I forgot. Winning is so much more important than being right and being honest in our arguements.

It isn't the truth. Yes they are upset about it. It has nothing to do with her being black though. It has everything to do with her being a loud voice they feel the need to intimidate and silence.

[ThatPoetGuy]

8. I disagree.

I do think it's because she's black. I think that's why they singled her out; it outrages them that she dares to criticize their white leader.

As for "'the winning hand'" -- I was using _your_ metaphor, DarkPhenyx. You spoke of "playing that card." Please don't suggest I'm being cynical, when all I was trying to do was communicate with you on the terms of your own statement.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. Please show me the evidence you have for that then.

I'm more than willing to entertain the prospect, but see absolutely nothing to even hint at it. Particularly when taken in context with all of the otehr people they have attempted to silecen because of their views.

I understood what you were doing. However I take exception with the idea that we need to do anything we need to in order to win. Let's not forget taht it is our opposition that has abandoned their moral base in order to win. We should not let our side do the same thing. If race isn't really an issue in this case then we really don't gain anything by trying to force it to be an issue. We may well lose something by it.

[ThatPoetGuy]

21. Without coffee I can't recall the difference between inductive & deductive

However, there were quite a few comedians there that night, weren't there? I imagine most of them were vehemently anti-Bush. The RW singled out Goldberg. Did they go after anyone else?

They singled her out -- because making fun of Bush's name is all that serious?

"You heard the names they called me," said Bush recently, referring to the NAACP.

[DarkPhenyx]

24. W/o knowing what the others said...

...I can't comment one way or another. As touchy as Bush is about criticism it could easily be that she demonstrted a certain lack of respect that the other did not. She may well have crossed some other line the others did not.

[ThatPoetGuy]

35. The complaint...

is that she made a dirty joke about his name. Out of all the comedians, don't you think somebody may have said something harsher? How is that crossing a line?

And, actually, to answer my own question (in a show of my willingness to engage in dialogue rather than argument), the RW might have chosen that rather than a joke about Bush being a killer, because the RW doesn't want all the news stations repeating that XXX said Bush is a killer.

[DarkPhenyx]

36. Like I said.

I don't know what the others said. W/o that knowledge I can't say one way or the other. My understanding is that a sizable portion of her act consisted of jokes about the President and the VP using sexual references involving their names. It could be frequency and not amplitude that is the factor here. It is also possible to make cutting comments about the President and still show a certain level of respect for the position if not the person in it. They may feel she crossed that line.

There are a lot of other options that do not include "racism" as a factor. This could include that she simply became the random celebrity du'jour.

[sangh0]

37. DP says s/he doesn't know what was said

but seems to know that racism had nothing to do with it.

BTW, John Leguizamo was attacked by RNC too.

[ThatPoetGuy]

38. Who is DP?

[sangh0]

42. Dark Phenyx

.

[DarkPhenyx]

51. do you have a point?

or are you just happy wasting oxygen?

[sangh0]

77. The point is

how can you KNOW that racism "has nothing to do with it" if you don't know what was said?

So what they are black. Big deal. It dosen't have anything to do with their being silenced is what you said. You asked that people who say it WAS racism prove their case.

I'm asking you to prove yours. What evidence do you have that makes you so sure racism "doesn't have anything to do with their being silenced"?

[DarkPhenyx]

95. I know what was said by her.

I know that what she said was enough in and of itself to get her singled out, and I have seen enough of her material to know she can indeed go "over the top". Far and above what others would do or say in similar situations. They most likley didn't need to play the race card. She delt them two aces, and flopped two more.

[Geo55]

43. "It has nothing to do with her being black though"

I tend to agree....black/white/purple....they'll put your head on a stick an' run it through town.

[sangh0]

44. The fact that they'll attack anyone

doesn't mean racism had nothing to do with it.

[ThatPoetGuy]

46. Oooh, logic!

Nice to see some of that here, sangha.

[DarkPhenyx]

52. No, not logic...

...or not all of the logic.

Let's try science. Occam's Razor. The simplier option is ture?

Evidence leads us in one direction, the otehr requires a leap of faith. Not racially motivated is the simpler answer.

[ThatPoetGuy]

54. Aside from...

the utter misapplication of Occam's Razor, what evidence?

[DarkPhenyx]

58. Why is it misapplied?

The evidence from recent events logically leads us to the conclusion that WG was more likely "shouted down" because of her politics than because or either her gender or her race. The President is an emotional coward. We've seen this time and time again. His feelings were hurt and he lashed out at the source of that hurt. Nothing more, nothing less.

[sangh0]

81. You got Occam's Razor wrong

Occam's Razor isn't "The simpler explanation is true."

Occam's Razor states that the unnecesary parts of an explanation should be eliminated.

[dave29]

85. It's also Ockham

as in William of Ockham - although Occam has come to be accepted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham

I only get snooty about science and politics I swear :)

[sangh0]

88. Yes, I know it's also Ockham

but thank you. We can never have too much information. Be as snooty about that as you like. :-)

[dave29]

92. Agreed re: information

unless you are George W. Bush - then you want as little information as possible, and trust your gut in managing the affiars of the United States of America. I guess I shouldn't question such obvious "moral clarity" from our selected leader, but then again I believe in the Scientific Method.

Which is also why I get so sick of people claiming they are absolutely correct without all of the evidence. In the case of "the race card" being played or not re: Whoopi - both sides have very good points. Clearly the GOP, post Lincoln, have fallen out of favor with African Americans. Understandably. They have stood in the way of every reform imaginable, they have worked hard at disenfranchising those who they have refused reforms for, they adopted the "Southern Strategy" which plays on the bigotry of those whom they also refuse to help get a decent education. They are the party of Helms, Thurmond, Lott.

On the other hand - it's true, they do attack everyone that doesn't fall in line. And they retaliate against those who seek to expose them. Even their own. McCain. Jeffords.

They associate those whom are anti-war as unpatriotic and even treasonous. They associate Democrats in ads with Osama bin Laden. They have taken the lives in the last 3 years of over ten thousand innocent Muslims, some of whose surviving family members will seek to do the same to us (regardless of party affiliation, gender, age or race).

They have fought hard against women, against gays, against anything they deem as immoral - using their God given "immaculate perception".

They are the party of hate, of greed, of intolerance, of win at all costs, of no apologies, and of revenge. Everything they do can be tied back to benefiting themselves. And they do it while draping themselves in the American flag. As Democrats we should be fighting them in unison rather than jockying for position on whom they hate more. Everything they do is an outrage - and we should tolerate none of it.

[DarkPhenyx]

93. Well enough.

In that case racism is not necessary for this issue as the simple explanation is that they simply don't like people who attempt to stand against them. We have ample, documented, recent evidence of this being true.

However here is teh Razor as I found it written: "Of two equivalent theories or explanations, all other things being equal, the simpler one is to be preferred."

Which is close enough to waht I said as to make no odds. If you really have to get this picky about things then I have already won. Thank you for playing.

[dave29]

131. Friend,

It's sad to me that you haven't been able to pick up on the fact that applying the Razor in regards to your own combative nature in this thread is a thousand times simpler than applying it to the perspective you have on racism. And also, the most important part of the razor (which is often misapplied) is the concept of all other things being equal. It's only through a painstaking effort of balancing the arguments so that they stand alone in opposition to each other, free of bias or opinion, that one can arrive at the simplest conclusion. And even then there's a chance you are wrong. Quantum physics alone would make William of Ockham's head explode.

Even geniuses can admit when they are wrong: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040716/ap_on_sc/britain_black_holes_4

Please try to allow a different perspective in - it does a body good. If it's only about winning for you, I'd suspect you've already lost - and, I hate to say it, but you're just behaving like an intellectual bigot.

[DarkPhenyx]

173. Wow! Condensention.

Cool.

the two premises are equal. The simplier one is the one I have choosen. Rasicm isn't required for the reaction from the White House.

[Occulus]

63. Perhaps, but have you seen the photo

of Bush* signing the partial birth abortion bill?

He was surrounded by middle-aged white men. Naw, can't be a trace of racism in the topic at hand... not at alll.... :eyes:

[DarkPhenyx]

98. You are right.

We can't. I'm glad you can see that.

[Tomee450]

68. Well I disagree with you.

It IS all about race. There were others at the event who also said unpleasant things about Bush but they have centered on Goldberg who is black. It reminds me of O"Riley going after Ludacris but ignoring white entertainers who have also had salty lyrics and videos. Ludacris lost his Pepsi contract. They went after Danny Glover and he ceased being a spokesman for Verizon. They caused McKinney to lose her seat in Congress even though others had said similar things and also had Arab contributors. There are people who wish to bury their heads in the sand,I will not. Some in the Republican party can be quite mean when it come to black people. They know they can get away with it.

While the Republicans may attack others, they reserve their greatest venom for those blacks who do not stay in their place. They become enraged!!

[Karenina]

71. So does...

[DarkPhenyx]

94. It isn't about race.

Yes, yes, yes, I know we want it to be. We want everything to be about race and gender in this day and age. We want it so badly that we see it in places where it isn't a factor. Sad but true.

Remember not to cry wolf too often, or you may get eaten by him with none the wiser.

[Tomee450]

112. It's not what one wants it to be, but what IS!

AND IT IS ABOUT RACE. Chevy Chase also is reported to have said unpleasant things about Bush but only Goldberg was singled out. It's unfortunate that some people have such closed minds, unwilling to see the truth. That's why racism continues to flourish in this society;people refuse to acknowledge the obvious. As a black person, I have observed this scene being played many times. African Americans are always treated far more harshly than whites who have committed similar infractions. All one has to do is observe the judicial system;a system in which blacks are given longer sentences than whites who have committed the same crimes. Even in the schools, black students who misbehave are put into special classes,suspended or sent to special schools. Administrators are much more reluctant to take such measures against white students. It is absolutely absurd for you to assert that the treatment of Goldberg is not racially motivated given the history of this country.

[noiretextatique]

113. and given the recent history and current reality

of the republican party. OF COURSE it's about race, and OF COURSE it's about the demonization of anyone remotely "liberal," and OF COURSE it's about gender.

[DarkPhenyx]

116. You got one out of three right.

Not bad.

[noiretextatique]

120. three out of three, actually

it's really quite obvious to those not vested in denial.

[DarkPhenyx]

122. No, no...just the one.

Cute little insult though. did you come up with that all by yourself?

Show me the evidence then. I can't prove a negative. The absense of evidence is the evidence in my case. So it is incumbant upon you, and the others who are claiming racism, to make your case. If your only evidence is that she is black and female I'm sorry but that isn't good enough to stand up in court.

[noiretextatique]

128. no amount of evidence will convince someone

who is vested in denying the obvious, would you agree? and i did not "insult" you...your view is perfectly understandable to me, and very consistent with your general pov from what i have observed of your posts here.

[DarkPhenyx]

133. And again you insult me.

Interesting that you do so and continue to deny doing so.

So you are willing to admit you have no evidence specific to this case which supports your claim?

[noiretextatique]

140. funny...

racism is a republican party family value.
republicans aren't the least bit shy about exploiting race to achieve their goals, and certainly not in florida.
but this incident has absolutely nothing to do with race, according to you....great evidence: because i say so.
the fact that you think your opinions are superior to anyone else's has been demonstrated repeatedly...by you.
i remember the thread where you took issue with someone's statement that a person was a hero...to him. have you figured out (YET) that you aren't the arbiter of absolute truth? it seems not.

[DarkPhenyx]

142. The complete absense of evidence to the contrary...

...and the preponderence of evidence supporting the opposing view. Not becasue I say so.

Oh, I am well that I am not the arbiter of absolute truth. Pathetic cheap shot BTW.

[noiretextatique]

148. right...no evidence...just complete conjecture

no evidence at all. on the other hand, there is so much evidence supporting your position...i believe it's called "the benefit of doubt."
unfortunately, that's a luxury i no longer afford republicans. they have earned my suspicion, and my derision.

[DarkPhenyx]

157. Just for the record...

...and not that you have any reason at all to believe me, but the 44 year old black woman I am currently in negotiatiosn with for a dating relationship just told me, via AIM, that she dosen't see it as a race issue either. Just food for thought.

[noiretextatique]

165. that's the beauty of diversity

of opinions...
of course, there are several people posting in this thread who don't agree with her....some of them are white.

[DarkPhenyx]

169. and there are people who have posted on here who agree with me.

when you have divergent opinion all you can do is look at the evidence related directly to the issue. In this case we are led to the conclusion, based on an unemotional evaluation of what we know for certain, that this was not a racially motivated event. See how taht works? It's an amazing thing really. Logic.

Until someone provides evidence proving that, in this case, racism is a factor our claiming so is counterproductive and distracts from the more important issue.

[noiretextatique]

179. more important...to whom?

have you forgotten what happened in florida in 2000....and which group was most affected by the disenfranchisment schemes? and might i add: i hope that will be deemed "more important" in 2004 than it was in 2000. if not, another bush win will certainly be counterproductive to democrats, especially since chief justice rhenquist is an ardent supporter of disenfranshisement.

[DarkPhenyx]

182. and now it is clear.

I beg your forgivness I thought you were actually concerned with greater things. My mistake. I apologize for wasting your time. Oh, and before someoen else points out out for you.

You Win!

[noiretextatique]

187. thanks for conceding

as to "greater things"...
the greatest thing imaginable would be for democrats to grow a spine in the event of a repeat of 2000 instead of cowering in fear of swing voters, and making deals for committee chairmanships.
what "greater thing" is there than the right to vote?

[Tomee450]

176. And

I suppose some of your best friends are black.

[DarkPhenyx]

183. no.

I have only one best friend and she is Jewish.

Um...did you have a point?

[DarkPhenyx]

115. Provide me the text of his comments please.

It would be nice if we could compare teh two. In the absense of any countering evidence it isn't about race.

As I said, it is quite often about what one wants it to be. We expect to see it everywhere, we look for it everywhere and big sur[rise we find it everywhere. Even when it isn't there.

[Tomee450]

125. And I repeat. It is not about wanting something to be, It is about

what is. It is unfortunate that there are those who refuse to acknowledge the deep racism that pervades this society. They would rather look away and pretend it does not exist;it would then be unnecessary to do anything about it. As far as the tape is concerned, no one has seen it. You ask for the tape. Funny, you seem to have no problem saying it's not about race without ever having seen it. At least there is much history to support my statements. I cannot say that about your conclusion.

I am reminded of the segregationists of the south. Nothing was ever wrong in their treatment of blacks. No matter how often a black complained, he was always a liar, trouble maker, or in the case of Martin Luther King and other civil rights leaders, communists.

[DarkPhenyx]

138. So you admit then that you have nothing to support your claim.

No evidence at all that pertains to this case at hand. All you have offered so far is rhetoric. That isn't evidence.

I don't deny racism exists. Never have, never will.

I have based my conclusion on the facts I have on hand. They lead to a logical conclusion which does not need racism to explain it.

[noiretextatique]

104. the disenfrancisement wasn't about race either

according to folks in both parties...just another coincidence.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

105. I disagree too

of course they tell everyone who disagrees with them openly and loudly to shut up. But the fact that they are black just makes it all the more satisfying and imperative.

I know. I know these people. And they are willing to openly admit their motivations. It's really ugly. One guy I know (can't really call him a friend) said the other day that he's glad (when referring to Whoopi) that "n____ bitch has been shut up. Now hopefully she'll keep her big ass mouth shut."

[DarkPhenyx]

118. Lo and behold we prove there are racists in America.

Is anyone surprised?

[Karenina]

190. They're closer than anyone could imagine.

And ever ready to DENY, DENY, DENY. :eyes:

[Yupster]

16. Same with the Dixie Chicks

IF they weren't Black, I bet no one would have gone after them either.

[redqueen]

23. Damn, you said it before I could. n/t

[Mel]

9. I disagree here is part of what I wrote in another thread

Why would they strike Representative Browns remarks but they didn't strike Rep. Barbara Cubin (R-Wyo.) racist remark? Huuummmmm?

Mel Watt's (NC) demanded Cubin's comment be "taken down," meaning it was inappropriate for a House debate. In a largely party-line vote, the GOP-controlled House voted 227 to 195 to uphold the chair's ruling that the remark fell within House rules.

This is what Cubin said during the gun control bill debate on the floor an amendment was brought up by Mr. Watts that would stop addicts or addicts in treatment from getting guns Cubin was arguing against this amendment and here are her words Cubin said, "So does that mean that if you go into a black community, you can't sell any guns to any black person?"

Cubin is a racist and her remarks remained. Rep. Brown was fighting for Democracy and her words where taken out she was punished for telling the truth!!

The thing is when Republicans get away with saying what Cubin did say on the floor I heard it with my own ears! Why wouldn't a reasonable person see race as part of the problem, it is?
I do agree with you that the republicans would tell any Democrat to shut up!
Problem is they don't tell their own to shut up when they make racist remarks.

It's not playing the race card it's a fact some Republicans in the House of Reps. are racist!
They don't want us to call them on the floor for it and they will be the first to try to use 'political correctness' on us with this just as they do the Class Warfare card (they used that one on the Senate side during Bush tax cut debates) and now they have a new one the Homosexual Card.

I for one am sick of allowing the 108th Congress and every Republican playing the dirty race card to get away it, it's time to stand up! You don't and you won't beat these bullies by backing down!

The race card has been going on since Nixon and it's way past time to let the Republicans know the gig is up! Even Republicans know the race card gig is up and has about ran it's course among the majority. I think it's the reason for their going after homosexuals it's next on their list to keep democrats and citizens divided and voting against their best interests!

Republicans can not win with their agenda and the will continue to play these cards until we stand up!

[DarkPhenyx]

14. This would be because they are hypocrits...

...not, necessarily, because they are racist.

[Mel]

39. No it is because

they are both hypocrites and racists.

[DarkPhenyx]

53. One of thsoe is important to this issue.

The other isn't. Racism isn't the one.

[Carolina]

72. spare me

THEY ARE RACISTS!

They are former Dixiecrats who applauded Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrat stand against Truman in 1948.

They devised the southern strategy.

They launched campaigns in Philadelphia, Mississippi.

They invoke states rights (except in Bush v. Gore where they ran to the Feds who then perverted the 14th amendment)

They opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

They oppose affirmative action for minorities but favor it for the white, wealthy and well-connected.

They demonize black people generally ... want a depiction of what's wrong with America, turn on the corporate-whore owned news which never fails to find and put a black face on crime, welfare, drugs, gangs, deprivation/degradation, whatever

[DarkPhenyx]

96. So what?

they may well all be. so I ask you so what?

[TeacherCreature]

11. Us?

How can what someone else says make "us" look like anything? Did us say it?

PS..... it is about race and when its not about race it is about gender.

[DarkPhenyx]

15. OK, sure. Whatever you say.

assuming it has to be these two things is dangerous. It blinds you to what it is really about. Never good to intentionally maintain blind spots. It allows the opposition to sneak up on you.

[TeacherCreature]

26. okay "whatever"

good comeback. <obligatory eyes rolling smiley>

[DarkPhenyx]

29. Post something worthy of a comeback then.

Hell, post something that had enough substance for a bad comeback. I'm easy.

[TeacherCreature]

121. you make it obvious that you are part of the backlash

very sad indeed.

As for "something worthy of a comeback... I did, you tried, you failed.

You are right you are easy. :7

[DarkPhenyx]

123. what?

damn, absolutely nothing there either. Strange.

Do youy really have nothing to add to this discussion except further childishness?

[TeacherCreature]

152. and yet you keep responding...ROFL

give up DP, you have been out argued by man people on this thread and you are just being argumentative.

You are part of the backlash, it's sad.

[DarkPhenyx]

161. Out argued?

not even. having people scream "you are wrong" at me isn't even close to being a successful debate. Your declaring it so dosn't work either.

[Forkboy]

163. This from someone who just declares "I WON"

whether true or not.

[DarkPhenyx]

166. there you are snookems

I was missing you.

[Forkboy]

168. I WON!

thanks :)

[TeacherCreature]

170. You did win!!

You kicked ass!

[DarkPhenyx]

171. You actually have to enter the debate to win. n/t

[Forkboy]

177. I did enter it

just not in a fashion you want.

I still WON! Yay for me and my ego!!!!

[TeacherCreature]

167. you are the one screaming "you're wrong"

and yet you think you needed 10s of posts to same the same thing.
:crazy:

[DarkPhenyx]

172. not quite.

but yes, I am saying just that. The difference is that I am using logic and reason. Not jumping to conclusions based on nothing but emotional reactions and personal bias.

[Carolina]

73. exactly!

Keep us in our place!

And a black woman is a two-for.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tomee450]

117. Hmmmm

"Do you also vote only one issue?"

I suspect that you do, and judging by the content of your posts I believe I know what that issue is.

[DarkPhenyx]

124. So tell us.

I'd be curious to see how wrong you are about me.

[Tomee450]

137. I don't

think I need to tell you or anyone else. You are quite transparent, coming through loud and clear.

[DarkPhenyx]

139. In other words...

...you have absolutely nothing to say and have decided to resort to trying to tear me down since you have no other more persuasive arguemnts to defeat me. You can't even form a good one so you have nothing but vague inuendo and insinuation. Sounds curiously familier as a tactic. let me see if I can rememeber which recent Adminsitration uses the very same tactics against it's strongest opponents. Hummmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Tomee450]

153. I have pegged you perfectly.

Your posts could not be clearer as to where you stand. I have come across others who have the same attitude. Blacks who experience racism in their daily lives and complain about it are crying wolf. Blacks who have experienced similar situations and say the current one involves racism are lying; they cannot call upon their experiences to make judgment. In other words, blacks just like to shout racism. Most black people do not cry racism if they do not think that it is present. It is a painful subject and most would be happy not to have to talk about it.

[DarkPhenyx]

158. well, you are wrong.

and if you would like I'd be happy to correct your misconceptions. I doubt you will be will though. Closed minds and all that.

Be well and happy. Remember to open your eyes more and see things you have missed.

[Tomee450]

180. I think

you should take your own advice.

[DarkPhenyx]

184. Every day.

It is always best to live by ones own advice when it is applicable. Since I don't smoke it's tough for me to live by my advice to quit smoking.

[ThatPoetGuy]

141. Having started this thread,

having followed it, having attempted to engage in legitimate debate and received only hostility, DP --

my guess is that you are a paid operative of the Republican Party.

We need to be asking whether there is enough evidence to connect the dots; we can't even ask that, because every time someone tries, you shoot back an insult.

On this thread you have shown tenacity, ruthlessness, and an overwhelming dedication to prevent us from even discussing whether or not this is an issue. Congratulations, you have stifled any and every opportunity for discussion.

So go back to your bosses at the RNC, DarkPhenix, and let them know what a good job you're doing. I'll write you a recommendation. You deserve a raise.

[DarkPhenyx]

144. Please explain with examples...

...how I did this. I'm curious.

I would like to point out I have asked...several times...for someone to bring evidence out. I have yet to see anyone try. Innuendo and repetitions of "Republicans are all racist" do not substitute for evidence. I think you would agree.

[ThatPoetGuy]

154. Yet you have said

that anyone who suggests Republicans might be racist is an "ignorant jackass."

The logical problem here is that there are two statements, which are not necessarily oppositional:

1) These black women were silenced because they are black women who spoke out against Bush.

2) These black women were silenced because they spoke out against Bush.

Either statement can only be concluded by looking at a pattern of behavior. The only way we can "prove" racism would be through telepathy or some kind of tape recording, a la Enron or Exxon; other than that, we can only show a compelling pattern.

That compelling pattern is how most of life is understood. We believe all bluebirds lay blue eggs, even though the statement cannot be proven; we've seen a compelling pattern, a consistency.

There is a compelling pattern that says, Republicans target their critics. There is also a compelling pattern that says, Republicans proceed according to racist and sexist dictates. Neither side has any "evidence" other than these compelling patterns.

However, the fact that there have been many critics, such as Chevy Chase, who were NOT assailed by the RW, disproves any claim to consistency for argument 2, and leads us to believe instead that argument 1, racism/sexism, is a more compelling pattern.

-----

If you wanted to see discussion, perhaps something like

"What you say may be true, but I don't find it convincing. Would you back this up with evidence?"

might be more effective than something like

"It isn't racism, you are wrong, ignorant, and stupid, I know the truth, and I dare you to provide evidence, you ignorant jackass."

You have said that kind of thing on this thread, maybe 40 times, and you've said it to EVERYONE who has even speculated that there might possibly be racism/sexism as a motive. Why have you put so much time and energy into suppressing discussion?

[DarkPhenyx]

159. thank you.

nice logical post.

Now, since we don't have that evidence, no telepathy or recordsings, we are going to jump to a conclusion? Particularly when that conclusion is based entirely on the predominately untrue generalization that all Republicans are racist? And you feel comfortable with this?

Supress it? I've been trying to get some logic and reason into it.

[noiretextatique]

188. you ignore most of the poster's argument

to support your claim. no one has said "all republicans are racist" except you. the poster said: there is compelling evidence (a compelling pattern) to indicate that race and gender had something to do with these incidents. the pattern is not about *individual* behaviors and attitudes, btw, so there is no need to speculate about the motivations of individuals. the question at hand is: is it unreasonable to assume race and gender played a role in these incidents, given the *compelling pattern* of hostility towards women and people of color expressed by the republican party?

[ClassWarrior]

17. Watch that opening sequence in F911...

... and tell me that racism had nothing to do with it. All those fat white guys sitting there laughing at the "silly Negroes." Dammit. I hate it when people - especially OUR people - say, nawwwwww... it'd never be racism.

On edit: yes, the do try to shout down ANYONE who disagrees with them. But to deny their racist motives is a dangerous path to trod.

[DarkPhenyx]

19. Please fail to point out where I said...

...it would "never" be racism.

My point is that it isn't always racism. A correlary to this is that not all racism is white in origin. Is it not racism to automatically assume that because the individual in question is black that any move taken against them must be based on the fact that they are black?

"Judge me not by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character."

[sangh0]

41. The bigots like that MLK quote also

They like to use it to dismantle Affirmative Action (and any other policy that benefits minorities) and to accuse liberals of racism. Unfortunately for your argument, MLK was a HUGE proponent of race-based programs, and he also understood how racism was not always blatant. Too bad all you can do is cite the quote, but make no reference to man and what he actually believed, which is something a little more complex than a one sentence quote.

You demand that others prove their claims, but the support you offer for your position is nothing more than a one sentence quote (actually, not even the whole sentence). If you truly believed that absolute proof was necessary to support a belief, then you wouldn't be supporting your beliefs with such scanty evidence.

You also wouldn't engage in such obvious logical fallacies, such as

My point is that it isn't always racism

So what? It doesn't mean that in THIS case, it's not racism.

A correlary to this is that not all racism is white in origin

So what? Not only does that offer nothing to support your claim that it might not be racism, it is also a straw man, since no one is arguing that all racism is white in origin.

Is it not racism to automatically assume that because the individual in question is black that any move taken against them must be based on the fact that they are black?

I would say it might be racist to ignore the long history of racial bigotry that the RNC has practiced, a point your question left out for some strange reason, and a point I am certain has something to do with the accusation of RNC racism. I also believe that you would agree that this long history of RNC racism has something to do with this, but some some reason, your question makes no mention of it.

[DarkPhenyx]

49. "The bigots like that MLK quote also"

and satan can quote from the bible. what's your point? You woudln't be saying that we should judge people by the color of their skin are you?

"My point is that it isn't always racism

So what? It doesn't mean that in THIS case, it's not racism. "

Agreed. However the evidence we have, current and historical, does not support an argument for racism in this case.

"So what? Not only does that offer nothing to support your claim that it might not be racism, it is also a straw man, since no one is arguing that all racism is white in origin."

Actually there are people who argue this point. Not in this thread, but it is a position held by some.

"Is it not racism to automatically assume that because the individual in question is black that any move taken against them must be based on the fact that they are black?

I would say it might be racist to ignore the long history of racial bigotry that the RNC has practiced, ... I also believe that you would agree that this long history of RNC racism has something to do with this, but some some reason, your question makes no mention of it."

So you are refusing to answer my question? Fair enough. It wouldn't support your position anyway.

No, it isn't racism to ignore their "history of racism". Nor am I ignoring it in this case. I do disagree with you that in this case it has anything to do with it. I make no mention of it becaseu I don't think it is a factor in this case.

[sangh0]

78. You demand prove or evidence of others, but neglect to do so yourself

and that makes your posts in this thread hypocritical.

Agreed. However the evidence we have, current and historical, does not support an argument for racism in this case

The evidence *WE* have isn't sufficient? What "we" are you talking about. *I* have enough evidence. Maybe you don't, but I do.

Furthermore, you've said that racism had nothing to do with this, but you still haven't produced one shred of evidence to support your position, while demanding evidence from others.

Actually there are people who argue this point. Not in this thread, but it is a position held by some.

I still don't understand why you would try, in this thread, to refute what other people are saying in other threads.

So you are refusing to answer my question? Fair enough. It wouldn't support your position anyway.

Your question is what is known as a "leading question". That is, it has been carefully designed to elicit the response you want. It accomplishes that by dishonestly ignoring some of the facts. In this case, it ignores most of the facts. Your question also assumes a motive (that people assume it was racist because the women was black) but you haven't provided any evidence that such a motive exists, while demanding that others provide evidence. That's hypocritical.

BTW, do you still beat your wife, or is your refusal to answer the question a sign that you are ashamed of the way you used to beat your wife?

No, it isn't racism to ignore their "history of racism".

Of course not. Everyone who is concerned about racism makes sure to ignore the entire history of racism. :crazy:

Nor am I ignoring it in this case.

Yes, you demonstrated your focus on the history of racism by devoting zero words to the issue. :crazy:

I do disagree with you that in this case it has anything to do with it.

Another of your arguments that you make while providing ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support it, while demanding that others provide evidence for their positions. Very hypocritical.

I make no mention of it becaseu I don't think it is a factor in this case.

So you make no mention of it, and it has nothing to do with this, but you haven't ignored it. Do you always pay attention to factors that you think have nothing to do with the issue?

[DarkPhenyx]

99. I have provided evidence.

You refuse to see it, or you refuse to acknowledge it. This isn't surpriseing becaseu you have a really big blind spot on this topic.

You can only nit pick, and scream "you're wrong" and you don't provide anything new to the discussion, like evidence that it was race related. Absolutely nothing. You don't answer questions of your own, simply scream back new ones. When all else fails you try to make cute snarky comments.

It's mildly amusing, mind you, but usless in debate. This is the way the opposition usually argues.

[DarkPhenyx]

50. Oh, and for the record...

...I didn't use a strawman. A strawman argument is one where you build up a premise or point specifically flawed so that your "logic" will tear holes in it.

You are welcome for the knowledge.

[sangh0]

79. You don't know what a straw man is

A straw man argument is a refutation of an argument that no one has made.

http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm#straw

Straw Man.

Description: It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else's position for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that one has made.

[DarkPhenyx]

103. You might want to look here then.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lilyth/strawman.html

It's easy for the perpetrator to knock down their own Straw Man because they can make the Straw Man themselves. It's a tailor-made position for the person using it. Usually, the person using the argument will knock down the unrealistic caricature in Step 2 as quickly as possible, and then proclaim that the opposing position has been demolished because they were so cleverly able to knock down their own manufactured Straw Man.

But we'll use your definition in order to simplify your reality.

Now please point out where I misrepresented your position? Thank you for failing.

[Carolina]

74. The sad fact is we will never be a color blind society

and unless you're heavily melanin-endowed, you cannot fully understand that the fulfillment of MLK's words is unlikely in our lifetimes.

[RetroLounge]

57. DarkPhenyx has spoken. Everyone can leave now.

Nothing to see here.

Don't bring up racism, DarkPhenyx says so.

Race has nothing to do with it, DarkPhenyx says so.

makes us look like complete jackasses, DarkPhenyx says so.

The only thing that makes complete jackasses look like complete jackasses are the same complete jackasses...

For example...

[DarkPhenyx]

60. You may now scrape and grovel appropriately.

*holds out hand for the ring kiss*

[noiretextatique]

106. they played the race card in florida

but this is probably not related to that at all. yep...just yet
another coincidence.

[gatlingforme]

5. Repbulicans motto is censure all who disagree

[pnb]

18. So you think they wouldn't have cared if white women said those things?

Think again. Its not about race here, its about not liking what they said.

I hope that your word doesn't get out. There is enough real racism/sexism in the world without people having to invent it every little place...it just makes everyone look paranoid about race and diminishes the REAL problems that exist.

[DarkPhenyx]

20. "The boy who cried wolf"

Thank you.

[sangh0]

45. The fact that they might have done it anyway

doesn't mean that racism had nothing to do with it.

[DarkPhenyx]

48. Nor does the fact that they are black...

...mean that it did. Evidence does not support racism as strongly as it suports that they try to silence all disenting voices.

[sangh0]

80. What evidence?

You said "(the) Evidence does not support racism as strongly as it suports that they try to silence all disenting voices".

I haven't seen where you post any of this "evidence"

[DarkPhenyx]

126. Michael Moore.

Dixie chicks. Air America. Al Franken. The list goes on. People who are all very anti-Bush, and all of them the subject of a campaign to silence them. Not all of them are black or female. yet they are all the subject of the very same treatment.

Now...show me the evidence you purport to have showing where race was the cause in this case.

C'mon. I dare ya.

[Tomee450]

134. So what?

Just because whites have been treated badly does not mean that racism cannot be a factor in how an African American is being treated.I have worked in organizations where whites have been treated unfairly but when I was discriminated against it was on the basis of race and there was no doubt it.

[DarkPhenyx]

136. So show me the evidence in this case that it is.

Or conceed the point.

[Tomee450]

145. I don't think I will

You have shown that your mind is closed and no am out of evidence will change it. Even if you saw tapes, reams of evidence, you would come back with the same refrain. I must admit that I am very surprised to find someone of your mindset on this forum. Your comments are usually to be heard coming from the mouths of right wingers who seek to silence people who complain about racism.

[pnb]

59. The fact that there is no real reason to assume racism

is a good enough reason to not assume racism.

[sangh0]

89. But that's not a fact

it's an opinion, and the fact that you have a problem distinguishing between a fact and an opinion is enough reason to not assume you are right.

[DarkPhenyx]

100. No, it's a fact.

You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Unless you can provide something of weight to counter it then you need to find another point to argue and conceed this one.

[pnb]

191. I can differentiate between the two

And I would use logic to form a fact and my logic tells me that no logic could imply racism there...unless a person outside wants it to be there.

[Tomee450]

194. Well your logic is faulty.

It is perfectly logical for people who have experienced similar situations, or know others who have, to believe this is about race. Others were also disrepectful of Mr. Bush, but it is the black person who has been vilified. This happens to African Americans all the time.

[goddess40]

22. It's more because they are female - we would be wearing burkas

if it was up to the right wing. By we I mean women.

They have an excuse to shut down anyone that disagrees with them. I'm sure white guys that disagree are too stupid to understand. They have their 'reasons' to nullify anyones opinion that isn't the same as theirs.

[donhakman]

27. Women SHALL OBEY

At least thats what the National Babtist Church Congress ratified as a foundation of their Constitution last year. Do you remember?

[goclark]

34. Add Janet Jackson

to the list. She didn't use words but she certainly was bashed by the Conservatives.

The FCC tried to ruin her career and never touched Justin Timberlake.

[tjwash]

47. That kind of burns me too.

No mention of JT what so freakin' ever by the conservanazis. The first words out of their mouths--"she had it planned from the beginning." It goes along perfectly with the "hey, she was asking for it" rape defense.

[Tomee450]

69. Exactly

Danny Glover, Cynthia McKinney, Ludacris, Janet Jackskon. Jayson Blair will probably never get a job at a paper again yet Mike Barnacle appears on televison and still writes a column. The Repubs may attack others but they are especially harsh with blacks. They try to destroy them. All of this is not lost on most black people, I suspect.

[oasis]

76. Cynthia McKinney is a prime example. She question's Chimpy's 9/11

foreknowledge and poof, she's gone.

[Carolina]

75. excellent point

Janet was victimized, vilified, scapegoated and punished.

Justin RIPPED off the alleged faulty garment and yet nothing was said about his aggressive action. And which is more abhorent a male (who happened to be white) ripping off a female's garment or the exposure of the female breast (which happened to be black).

Thanks, fellow Clarkie. Bottom line repukes go after uppity women but if they're black too, it's really open season. Race does matter.

[Mountainman]

40. But just like the attacks on F9/11, the more they try to shut them up

the more news coverage the speakers get. I would have never heard about Whoopi if it hadn't been for the repugs showing their disgust and I would not have heard what Corinne Brown said if it wasn't shown over and over on wingnut cable news shows. If the right would just learn that over 50% of the people agree with the speakers they might just want to shut up themselves. The more the right talks about it the more of the left gets to hear about it. The only thing they hope to accomplish is to use these smears to hold onto their kool aid drinkers because it surely isn't getting them more sympathy from anyone else.

Mommy! Mommy! just listen to what those mean liberal Black women are saying about us! Mommy! Mommy! Make them stop!

[ThatPoetGuy]

55. You know what cracks me up?

Can you imagine the Republicans making the arguments that are being made here, by people hellbent to defend the Republicans?

"We didn't tell them to shut up because they're black women -- we told them to shut up because we tell everyone to shut up."

[ThatPoetGuy]

56. You know what else cracks me up?

This thread is popular, thanks to the efforts of the people who want to stifle the story here, who want to make sure no line is drawn between the dots.

Thanks, DP! You're helping get the word out.

[DarkPhenyx]

62. I'm not trying to stifle the story.

I'm pointing out the stupidity of immediately jumping to "racism" w/o any evidence of it. It's as stupid as the Republicans claiming racism because we won't confirm a minority judge who is a complete jackass.

I would appreciate an apology for insinuating that I am attempting to stifle the story. However the story is that the Republicans are attempting to shut up another person who disagrees with them. Not that some ignorant ass wants to scream raism yet again.

[ThatPoetGuy]

64. Uh...

you call me an "ignorant ass" and you want _me_ to apologize?

Sorry, I calls it like I sees it. You have been an attack dog on this thread, attempting to refute _every_ statement here, applying mockery and outright hostility to cover up a thought process motivated by what is at best dubious logic.

You are on the wrong side here. What you've done on this thread has been an outright assault on our ability even to begin asking the question whether there was racism involved.

Why have you come back here again and again?

Why have you so aggressively gone after everyone who speculates on a possibility?

Why are you so unshakeably convinced that there was no racism involved?

Am I sure there was racism? Hell no. I think it's likely.

Are you sure there was no racism? Hell yes. You've said so on this thread, many times.

You've started from the conclusion and worked your way back to the premise.

[DarkPhenyx]

65. I didn't.

But I can see where you might read it that way.

Please prove I'm on the wrong side. What evidence do you have?

Please be logical and have backup documentation. Show me beyond a shadow of a doubt, based on what we can prove, that racism is even likely. Not even definate, likely.

[Karenina]

83. History repeats itself.

That's D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E.

[DarkPhenyx]

127. Actually it dosen't.

That's a very common misconception.

[noiretextatique]

132. where is your evidence?

since you are so certain...what evidence do you have to support your claim?

[DarkPhenyx]

135. You can read can't you?

Look through this thread and read it. It's already here. And there is a completel absense of anything supporting a claim of racism. Interesting no? Or are you jumping to conclusions w/o actually doing your homework...again.

[noiretextatique]

143. my homework is 45 years as a black woman

in this country. something tell me you haven't had the same homework. i haven't seen any evidence from you...just opinion asserted as fact. what makes your opinion so superior? can't be based on anything remotely related to history or reality, that's for sure. nope...no way this has anything remotely to do with race...not in florida...not in the republican party. no possible way.

[DarkPhenyx]

149. you are absolutely correct.

I'm not a 45 year old black woman. Amazing power of deduction there. Congrats.

My opinion isn't superior. Interesting that you think it is though. I appreciate the compliment.

Even if race is a factor, it isn't the why. The why is the vastly more important issue.

[noiretextatique]

151. it is a part of the why

and that is a fact with plenty of evidence to support it. my homework gives me an especial insight...because i say so.
i actually know my opinion is not only superior: it is "the truth," according to me.

[DarkPhenyx]

160. then you are guilty of what you acuse me of.

such hubris gives you blind spots, and in those areas you ignore is usually where the truth hides. It isn't "the truth according to you". It's your biased opinion. Let's call it what it is. Nothing more. nothing less.

[noiretextatique]

162. actually....it's the logical conclusion

given their previous actions and stated positions. not to mention their support of disenfranchisement. unless of course you live in some type of benefit of the doubt vacuum. we could settle this by simply asking them. but something tells me they woyldn't be ccompletely honest about it, in keeping with the tradition on these matters.

[DarkPhenyx]

164. It's an opinion.

The evidence related to this issue logically leads in a different direction.

[noiretextatique]

175. right,if you live in a vacuum.

it's all connected...there is no way to divorce it. unless of course you believe that no republican is sexist or racist, or that those isms are never a motivating factor for anyone...ever.

[DarkPhenyx]

181. I believe that...

...not every Republican is. Just as I believe that not every Democrat is free from it.

I also believe that it isn't the motivating factor in everything the Republican party does, just as it can be a motivating factor in some things the Democratic party does.

All things are connected, this is true. Not everything is conected directly to everything else though. Not everything is connected to everything else all the time every time either.

[noiretextatique]

185. true....just most of the time

i don't give democrats a pass at all...one of the reasons i joined the green party. standard disclaimer: i voted for gore. but, as i mentioned before, i do believe the republican party has EARNED my unending suspicion...especially florida republicans. and i do believe that poeple of color and women are held to a different standard for being outspoken. this isn't the first time it's happened, and probably not the last.

[Tomee450]

70. I agree

It's mighty strange. Certain individuals are fighting pretty hard to prevent people from seeing the truth;the attack on Goldberg is about race. Such persistence would almost lead one to believe that members of the GOP are posting.

[Triana]

61. HeyPoetGuy...

Hello from a fellow poet - great post BTW. I have to agree w/ other posters though, that bu$hit would be trying to silence them even if they weren't black. Joe Wilson, Howard Stern, et al comes to mind. James Hatfield (who they murdered)...and a few others...

[Bread and Circus]

66. Wes Clark did not shrink away from Michael Moore the same way...

Kerry and Edwards have shrunk away from Whoopi...

"Running mate John Edwards was asked about the flap yesterday by Fox News. "They weren't speaking for me, and they weren't speaking for John Kerry," he said, adding the ticket is "focused on our positive, optimistic vision of hope."

--

Maybe that's good for getting elected (seeing as how Clark
is on his ear) but God save this country.

[KurtNYC]

67. Corrine Brown's comments were in the context of blacks

being systematically dis-enfranchised in the state of Florida, in other words, racism. If you can't understand that I think you just don't want to.

Racism is not "a card" and simply charging someone with "playing the race card" doesn't mean it isn't true, it simply means that the speaker doesn't want to deal with it in an honest way.

[goclark]

87. Does someone have the video feed?

I saw it here at DU and tried to open it with no luck.
Randi was on AA really mad about it! I had no idea that they erased her remarks from the Congressional Records! That is outrageous to me and to this country.

[noiretextatique]

108. it's just the truth

a truth that some, regardless of party affiliation, refuse to accept.

[Swamp Rat]

84. Great post ThatPoetGuy!

Corinne has more balls than all those "stupid white men" put together. I hope she keeps slamming the shit out of them because it REALLY pisses off rednecks and racists when a black woman gets so uppity. They can't help but open their big, fat, ugly mouths and pretend to be so smart about everything, but they cannot see at all how blatant their racism appears to the rest of us. This reminds me of how they ignore the truth about things... like how horrible and discriminatory Reagan's policies were.

Geaux Corinne Brown!!!

[RetroLounge]

86. Wow, 20 + posts by DarkPhoenix

defending Republicans.

or is this just about your ego?

RL

[sangh0]

91. Does he have to choose just one?

:evilgrin:

[DarkPhenyx]

101. It's about neither.

This would be about the stupidity of having a blind spot which causes you to jump to conclusionw/o any evidence. Particularly when there is evidence that logically leads you to a different conclusion, if only you take your blinders off and look.

Please point out where I have defended the Republicans. Nowhere in this discussion have I said that their attack on Goldberg is warrented, right, just, or anything else, have I?

My ego is a completely different subject which I would love to take up with you in an appropriate thread some day.

[Kat45]

90. I haven't seen any evidence to support EITHER side of the race argument

Posters are yelling at each other, asking for proof of the opposing opinion, yet I haven't noticed anyone posting evidence for his or her own opinion. In my opinion, this whole discussion is all opinion anyway. Proving discrimination, whether on the basis of race, or gender, or whatever, is often a very difficult thing to do in any case.

At this point, I'm a fairly objective observer because I didn't see the comedians, and I haven't read any transcript, or even a synopsis, of the jokes made about bush. I do not yet have an opinion on whether it was racism, but just because it involved a black person does not cause me to automatically assume it was (particularly since the repugs have a 'take no prisoners' attitude to anybody who says anything negative about them).

[DarkPhenyx]

102. Except I have provided evidence.

Proof is too strong a word, I'll grant you that. Evidence would be a better one. Logical analysis of the evidence as directly pertains to this episode would lead a thinking rational individual to conclude it is a simple case of the Administration attempting to silence a dissenting opinion.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

107. God bless America......

This isn't JUST about the fact that that are black, it's a BONUS.

Do you guys know any real-life GOP bigots? I do. Loads of them. The fact that Whoopi is black and female just makes this all the more satisfying, they've said so. I've seen guys chuckling their asses off over the fact that "that n____ bitch got shut up." (That's when I pointedly leave the room/area...)

I don't see why things have to be mutually exclusive. It seems on this thread it's either: no, they tell everyone who doesn't agree with them to shut up, it has nothing to do with racism or yes, it was racist and because they are black.

It's both, guys, it's both. The fact that they are black and female made it even MORE imporant to give them a little smack down. I've got people in real life TELLING me this, sadly.

[noiretextatique]

109. both...and vs. either or...what a concept!!!!!

:wow: a bonus, indeed. shut up liberal is great, but shut up you uppity n*@&^% is even better.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

110. Exactly eom

[DarkPhenyx]

130. yes...

...you already proved you work with bigots. Congrats.

Now why does this prove anything about the subject we are discussing?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

193. Hello???

Did you miss the part where the people I was quoting were talking specifically about Whoopi? And the fact that I know they vote GOP? Every time?

Oh well, you are either intentionally missing my words or have serious reading comprehension problems.

Why are you in such a huff to prove this ISN'T racism???

[noiretextatique]

111. they don't think black people should vote either

just ask chief justice rhenqist. :hi: another poet here.
some folks are more concerned about the accusation of racism than the blatant evidence of it, hence the heartfelt defense of the republican party's family value of racism here. come to think of it...lani guinier and jocelyn elders didn't fare too well either.

[Chili]

114. maybe it was revenge for this:

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/022604/met_apology.shtml

What she said (in this above article) was dumb. Never let them get you so angry that you sink to their level, never give them ammunition to use against you ("you all look alike to me.") Duh and oy. I only found this because I googled her name, looking for an article about the banning (which apparently isn't on the internet yet???) and all I found was quite a few really vehement hate-posts about her from blogs dated around this time. So this must've made some serious waves at the time (February 2004), though I missed it (don't live in FL).

Republicans - like elephants - have long memories, and are ruthless when they get a chance to reap revenge - Democrats have never been able to match their virulence. I think this is what happened. Racist? If this event in Feb. is the REAL cause of their censorship, then her initial accusation of racism may have been well-aimed and hit a nerve.

[noiretextatique]

119. seems failry accurate to me

but of course, she is a politician and can't offend with the naked truth given the taboo regarding calling a spade a spade, so to speak. funny how being racist is less of a concern than the accusation of racism.

[IronLionZion]

129. It's time for Republicans to shut up

They can't even say anything that is intelligent, let alone positive. And if you have seen the Daily Show, you know that they all use the exact same talking points word for word.

[fortyfeetunder]

147. The one way we can shut them the eff up --VOTE

Let's shut 'em up with turning over the White House and turning over Congress. Get them in a minority they will be begging for mercy.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

155. lol...I knew one person that was in this thread before I even opened it

and playing the role I expected to a tee.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

189. What they did to Brown is both sickening and frightening.

But Whoopi is a spokesperson, which means she is part of their product. There's freedom of speech, but all speech isn't free. If she believes in the cause, she'll take her lumps. You can't throw sharp words without knowing there could be repercussions. When you become a spokesperson for a large corporation you essentially whore yourself to their dictates.

[ThatPoetGuy]

192. I don't blame Slim-Fast...

I blame an aggressive, organized effort by right-wing groups to inundate Slim-Fast with threats of a boycott.