Is the WTO the end of democracy?

[redqueen]

Are we blaming bush for putting into high gear something that's been creeping under the radar for years?

Just wanted to hear your thoughts.

[hang a left]

1. I don't know.

But I sure would like to. For that I will give you a kick.

[redqueen]

6. Thanks!

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

2. Yes

The WTO is a corporate oligarchy stretching its tentacles into every aspect of life on thie planet.

It should be destroyed. It is more theenemy of freedom than Al Queda.

[redqueen]

7. I wish I could argue with that.

I feel so down right now. Kerry has kept silent on this...and maybe for good reason. I just hope we can get some action on this after we oust Bu$hCo.

[Walt Starr]

17. Kerry is a corporate tool like all of them

Come November 3rd, I'm anti-Kerry.

[mike_c]

3. certainly a contributing factor....

The most fundamental rationale underlying WTO trade agreements and procedures is that trade-- and the profit of traders-- is the ultimate good that trumps all other goods. In practice, this elevates profits-- the outcome of trade-- to a higher priority than any other interests of participating governments, such as insuring the welfare of their citizens or acting as part of a larger global community. Under WTO agreements, the "people" are simply consumers, and the world is ultimately governed for the long term benefit of a wealthy corporate oligarchy.

A benign oligarchy MIGHT act democratically, but only if its long term values transcend its immediate profit. Under the WTO, this is unlikely because corporate self-interest is the only acceptable driving force in society, and that self interest nearly always centers around monetary profit.

Bono said it best: "the rich get richer, and the poor stay sick."

[redqueen]

8. Exactly the way I see it.

When profits are infringed by the public interest, the WTO will step in and overturn the machinery with which the public interest is served. At least that' show it seems.

*sigh*

[rumguy]

4. All the free trade deals

have turned out to be undemocratic....

Chapter 11 in NAFTA is particularly spooky. A similar provision is going into the FTAA and CAFTA.

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_tdfull.html

[redqueen]

9. I have been told that there's no need to worry about FTAA and CAFTA

For some reason I don't share that opinion. I think this is something we need to raise awareness of. Something else, I mean... besides the Office of Special Plans, and the treason of Bob Nofacts' informer, and the BFEE's complicity in so very many scandals...

That Beatles song just started in my head... ~It's all too much...~

[rumguy]

10. The FTAA has been called NAFTA on steroids

So if ya don't like NAFTA ya won't like the FTAA...of course it's not done yet...but the bush admin. is no doubt pushing for an extremely pro-business version of it...

Seriously Chapter 11 in NAFTA is freaky and a near identical provision is going into the FTAA....

[redqueen]

11. Chapter 11 isn't just freaky

It flat-out usurps the right of the people to govern themselves in their best self-interest. If any profits or POTENTIAL profits are expropriated by regulations (for silly things like public health concerns, for example), then the corporation can sue the regulating entity (local, state, fed govt) for the amount of POTENTIAL profits.

:puke:

[rumguy]

13. it's a complete end-run around democracy

the newest case is Glamis Gold, a canadian mining company, suing the state of CA for banning open pit heap leach mines...they are asking for fifty or so million in compensation...

http://www.oxfamamerica.org/publications/art6471.html

I'm working on a paper on this subject right now...so it's kind of a pet issue...

[redqueen]

18. God bless you for making this your pet issue

One would think corporate-rule of the entire world would be a bigger deal.

[redqueen]

5. See this post for the impetus for this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1993788&mesg_id=2007139&page=

[mike_c]

15. wow, that is one INTENSE thread....

Missed that one. Damn.

[mmonk]

12. Playing devil's advocate here

Without the WTO, there probably wouldn't be any investment in third world economies if much at all. Who would risk their capital there?

[eridani]

16. If we weren't stealing their resources--

--they could invest their own capital. Worked for Taiwan and ROK, whose development was mainly from internal capital. Lots of 'protectionism' and of course the death penalty for taking capital out of the country.

[redqueen]

19. Google WTO + ghana

Ghana has scrupulously followed the instructions given by the IMF and the World Bank. Do you think it's helped?

I'm certain it's helped corporate profits... as far as Ghana's citizens... not so much.

[Zorra]

14. This is exactly what I think:

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dict ates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

I'm still supporting Kerry, in the hope that we can shake loose from the trans-national corporate yoke.

[redqueen]

20. I hope for that too

Let's hope also that we can rouse more of our fellow Americans from their slumber before it's too late.