Is it possible to reunite America?

[mandyky]

I listen to CSpan every day, and I can tell the Fox viewers and Rush listeners by their rhetoric. Will the media ever cooperate to acheive such a goal? Will you ever be able to reach out and shake the hand of your Republican neighbor?

As much as I hate the GOP machinery, I know we cannot live as Lincoln said "in a house divided".

Is it possible?
How do we do it?

[xultar]

1. Nope, Not possible. n/t

[Paradise]

5. Ditto! n/t

[indepat]

13. The extreme right wing has inflicted such incalculable and irreversible

damage to this country (and the world) IMHO since at least the 1930s, that the damage has now mostly become irreversible and irreconcilable. This damage is to the fiscal solvency of our government as witnessed by the federal debt amassed since 1981, the social security and Medicare programs and other safety nets; to the environment; to all nations whose governments have been overthrown and to the literally millions of people killed and countless millions of others maimed on their own soil by our military or CIA or their agents; to the way the war on drugs and crime has been waged; and to the lack of some national health system ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Most of all these disasters have been at the behest of the extreme right catered to by even more the moderate Republicans and all Democrats who have been afraid to be labeled as soft on Communism, soft on drugs, soft on crime. If this nation survives "four more year" as a reasonably intact and solvent constitutional Republic, it might just be one of the miracles of the ages. Hopefully for the good of our Republic, I'm wrong.

[Paradise]

20. It is insane, isn't it! n/t

[Kanary]

14. Another vote for not possible. It's gone too far

and too many people enjoy the ugly wrangling.

The permission to HATE and JUDGE was let out of the bottle, and can't be jammed back in.

It will have to wear itself out, and people will have to get tired of all their hating before THEY *WANT* to let go of it.

Yup, it's a civil war......... without guns, so far.

Kanary

[mhr]

2. My Letter To The Kerry Campaign

www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq/mediacorps/yourstory.php

------

Dear Mr Kerry,

I used to believe in the American dream - stay out of trouble, get an
education, serve your country, and work hard with success virtually
guaranteed.

I used to believe that this country was for everyone not just the
wealthy and powerful.

I used to believe that our institutions mattered and that they
represented a tradition of honesty and integrity not a haven for
partisan politics and special interests.

I used to believe that we could make a difference in the world by
example not through lies, threats, torture and war.

I no longer believe.

Now unemployed for four years, I have come to understand that
America is a sham, nothing more than a racket for the ultra-wealthy
to extract their pound of flesh from people like myself. Once exploited,
we become little more than roadkill on the corporate super highway
- discarded like yesterday's news.

The America that I grew up believing in is dead, replaced by cabal of
avarice, deceit and deception all designed to benefit those who have
at the expense of those that have not.

I honestly don't know you Mr. Kerry and can say that you are not
speaking to the issue that matters most to me, a fair and equitable
America.

A nation that understands we are stronger when all
citizens share the fruits of our collective work and sacrifice. A nation that
emphasizes our shared experience and beliefs. An America that puts
people before profits, nation before corporation, and society before economy.

Maybe you can make a change. I hope that to be true.

Many of us would like to believe again.

Sincerely,

MHR

[Robbien]

3. That is the problem

The Right Wing spin machine will keep spinning even if their man is out of the WH. According to Brock and Franks, this machine has been in the works for almost thirty years with the RW spending almost $2 billion on setting up the structure.

That is what disturbs me the most. How can we move forward if this machine is constantly on the attack?

[amber dog democrat]

4. I may happen if we are attacked

by aliens from beyond our solar system.
Otherwise I don't have realistic expectations of a United United States

[brokensymmetry]

6. Yes...but at a price.

You ask is it possible. Yes. To accomplish that end, one of two scenarios would be needed:

1) Civil war in which one side is utterly defeated. The winner's values rule. The loser's values are expunged.

2) War with an external enemy, a war that poses a clear-cut, substantial, and extended threat to the continued existence of the U.S. as a nation-state. Facing a common, dangerous enemy would unite us.

These scenarios could also destroy us.

Please note that this is "possible success", not "probable success".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. You can reach out

but only to individuals. The problem is that the media has hyped the 'us vs them' a lot, and has showcased right wingers who call liberals 'the enemy'. Don't believe that hype. Don't consider all Republicans the enemy. Look on your Republican neighbor as your neighbor first, Republican second. My bet is that you can find some issues where you are in agreement. It might be something local (like trash cleanup or youth programs in your city) or a specific national issue (like health care). The key is to LISTEN to what your Republican neighbor is saying. Treat him/her with respect, even if you don't agree with everything they say. Realize that most Republicans are ordinary people, and aren't the wild-eyed facists that pollute the airwaves. If you are unfortunate enough to live near someone who has been completely brainwashed by Rush or Fox, still treat them with respect-and with sadness because they are deluded. By doing this, you are belying the 'liberal stereotype' that the reich-wingers are trying to pin on people.

[Kanary]

15. Reaching out to people who hate you is a good way to get damaged.

[Brian_Expat]

8. Americans generally don't know suffering

Those in the right wing think they're safe and comfy and who cares if others aren't?

Once their own comfort is destroyed by Bush's policies, they start to have a change of heart.

But relying on a sense of purpose or community is a dumb idea. Most Republicans tend to create very small closed communities that exclude others, and act shocked when that community doesn't rush to the rescue in the event of bad luck.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. I dont agree with this.

Once their own comfort is destroyed by Bush's policies, they start to have a change of heart.

I don't think so. I think they move further to the right, or drop out of politics (as in losing interest and not voting).

Mike Davis has written that the great social movement of our time amoung the improvrished are religous in nature, llike pentacostalism (which is popular in the Americas..both North and South). So religious devotion and personal salvation and a relationship with God ...a focus on going into heaven when one dies...

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

9. No, I dont think so. We are in a new era.

The curren xtian right that is such a key player in the GOP coalition is uncompromising as they have God on their side, so normal politics isnt at work here. The same can be said of the Gover Norquist-style ideological neoliberals...which is what the GOP is now an alliance between these two absolutist tendancys.

I think this side wants to win at all costs, so they are not interested in dialogue or compromise, they want to totally win.

[kodi]

10. no, divide and conquer is the right wing way

the GOP made a conscious effort to promote divisiveness in the 1960's after the civil rights legislation and attempt to capture the white sounthern vote that had supported the democratic party for a century. to do this required the injection of race based politics and rhetoric. from that seed, the policies for dividing the electorate have grown to include class differentiation, religious differences, sexual proclivities, and lifestyles.

to unite americans all of these things would have to be resolved; race, class, religion, and sexual orientation.

good luck.

[Mountainman]

12. It is possible if we can get fair and balanced reporting again.

I see the problem being all the wing nut bull shit that is on the air 24/7. I can't turn on the radio driving to work without getting Fox News or Clear Channel shows or Laura Inghram and driving home all I can get is John and Ken, Michael Savage or Beck and during the day it is the local wingnut talk shows, Rush, Hanity and Dr Laura.

There is never a liberal point of view on the radio here. How can we grow together if all we here is hate radio? Liberals will not become conservative and the radio listeners won't listen to anything else. It is a battle between those who think and those who let other think for them.

[Birthmark]

16. As I see it, the basic problem is honesty.

Both sides are so entrenched in Party politics, that they frequently overlook and fail to deal when the other side makes a good point. It is almost religious in nature, with both sides seeming to want to claim infallibility and the only "true" way of looking at the world. What such extreme partisanship amounts to in my mind is loving one's Party more than America. Until such rabid partisanship stops, there is little hope of healing the breach.

[rock]

17. Nope, nor desired.

Imagine that the Nazi party was in full flower. Would you be asking how we could unite with them?

[NJCher]

18. nope

I don't think we can ever become united because the right has discovered that the country can be divided by "thinking style." They've learned they can splinter off enough simpletons into one group to vote for them. These are the black/white thinkers. The grays are over in our camp.


Cher

[Lefty48197]

19. No. We either need a civil war, or a civil divorce

let's start splitting up the property now: Democrats get New England, the Great Lakes, and the West Coast. Republicans get the south and the mountains.

[leftofthedial]

21. I believe it will require extremely drastic changes

Purging the liars and seditionists from the media would be a start.

[sandnsea]

22. Rush & O'Reilly might be able

Otherwise, no. The right is too brain-washed and the Republican leadership just doesn't care. It doesn't matter what the Democrats do, the right is beyond listening by now. People who are pre-conditioned to an unquestioning faith in God have had that propensity hi-jacked by politics. It'll take new Republican leadership to turn this around and I don't see anybody on the horizon who is willing to tell the truth.

That's why Kerry was talking to John McCain about VP, btw, to try and get the truth out there and reunite this country.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. It's very depressing, isn't it? I have to be an optimist at heart and

think that someway it might be possible though.

Not sure how. I think in a best case scenario it might take at least a generation, 20 plus years.

A critical element would be breaking up the right wing media machine. This is a very critical tool of divisive right wing politics that cannot be overstated in its importance. A start might be arresting the trend of media consolidation and restoring the fairness doctrine. This might not accomplish a lot during the first few years but it would begin to plant the seed of more open thought.

I agree that the politics of divisiveness began with the "Southern Strategy" after the 60's and winning the white Southern vote based on race, and that the harnessing of the Christian Right, starting from the Reagan era and perfected under Roveco, is the key second linchpin of the divisive politics strategy.

Interesting the contrast between the 2000 campaign ("compassionate conservatism, uniter not divider") and the current one where gay marriage amendment being flogged to inflame the redneck and fundie vote to the maximum. Now the mask is truly off. A weak attempt to appeal to the "middle" with non wingnut convention speakers.

I have mixed feelings--overall my inclination is that despite the treatment of Democrats by Republicans in the last 20 years and the last 4 in particular, that ultimately we have to have some kind of conciliation, but it must start in a very limited fashion. There has to be some kind of message, say, to poor working class Southerners that, "hey, we are making every effort to take care of your interests much more so than those white tie guys over there. Here is exactly what we are doing."

It has to be secular and material in nature and nothing to do with stupid fundie religiosity or cultural agendas. Providing for the material needs is the business of government. But the RW media machine HAS to be broken down for this to have any prayer of working. Can't win these guys over when they are being bombarded with hate radio/TV 24/7.

I do agree that one way is for there to be some kind of brutal civil war and the losers crushed/exterminated. Or, similarly, if our country provokes the world to unite as one against us and our nation is crushed into ignominious, ruinous defeat like Germany and Japan post WWII. Then we could arise from the rubble as a united nation. But I hope that neither of those scenarios would ever be required.

[proud patriot]

24. This is what I pray for everyday

Healing

[neebob]

25. Sure, it's possible to reunite with proper Republicans

but not with religious fanatics and others who think you're bad because of your beliefs and God will eventually smite you for your badness so they might as well do it first.

[Mr_Spock]

26. Until these kooks agree that the Constitition guarantees separation of

church and state, we are doomed to a Middle East scenario. In fact, it is SO amazing how Bin Laden has used Shrub as a puppet to turn us into a world hated theocracy. It's amazing how utterly gullible those idiots are to the paranoid reactionary instincts inside them. They are almost polar opposite to the founding fathers.

Witness:

When citizens fear their government you have tyranny. When government fears its citizens you have freedom. -Thomas Jefferson

Who thinks they understand the above quote believes there is hope for us - otherwise, we are likely doomed.

[rfkrocks]

Great question

who thought the 13 colonies would unite to defeat Britain?-part of this Bush miasma has been a loss of our oneness-the right does not want a untied country-their politics is as bad as their policy-a thoughtful inspired leadership can get Americans to reawaken out of their worm tongue (read Rove) induced stupor-we can never be completely united but if politics can return and we can excise the corporate cancer that grows on our legislative process we can be healthy and as united as we can be-it is the fight of our lives but like Richard Gere's character said "(we've) got nowhere else to go!"

[rfkrocks]

Great question

who thought the 13 colonies would unite to defeat Britain?-part of this Bush miasma has been a loss of our oneness-the right does not want a untied country-their politics is as bad as their policy-a thoughtful inspired leadership can get Americans to reawaken out of their worm tongue (read Rove) induced stupor-we can never be completely united but if politics can return and we can excise the corporate cancer that grows on our legislative process we can be healthy and as united as we can be-it is the fight of our lives but like Richard Gere's character said "(we've) got nowhere else to go!"

[rfkrocks]

27. Great question

who thought the 13 colonies would unite to defeat Britain?-part of this Bush miasma has been a loss of our oneness-the right does not want a untied country-their politics is as bad as their policy-a thoughtful inspired leadership can get Americans to reawaken out of their worm tongue (read Rove) induced stupor-we can never be completely united but if politics can return and we can excise the corporate cancer that grows on our legislative process we can be healthy and as united as we can be-it is the fight of our lives but like Richard Gere's character said "(we've) got nowhere else to go!"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. No. It's too late. The American Empire is crumbling.

Looking at the history of Empires, we are following a well trod path.

We are not merely the United States of America, we are an Empire. Our nation needs the 3rd world to sustain our wealth. Rather than "lebensraum" (living space) that Hitler yearned for when attempted the conquest of Eastern Europe, we seek the cheap labor and resources of the 3rd world. We are, in essence, a colonial power faced with uprisings. We have chosen to respond with brute force, destabilization, puppet regimes, and "pre-emption".

It won't work. We are squabbling amongst ourselves how best to retain the empire. The Republicans offer force. The Democrats offer negotiations and alliances with our client states in Europe and Asia.
But, even they are becoming restless under American dominance and forming alliances against us.

It really doesn't matter much whether America is reunited. In fact, that would probably only prolong the agony.

The "best" solution would be for the dissolution of the USA into a few separate countries with a lot less power that could join the international community on a more equal basis.

Alas, Empires seldom commit suicide.

[iconoclastic cat]

29. IMO, two groups have declared war on all life on Earth:

Warning: Don't flame me! These are my opinions, nothing more.

First, the people who exist in the upper .5% of our socioeconomic ladder: These people have gone powermad, and seek to dominate all others. There is no way to talk down a megalomaniac.

Second, Christian fundamentalists are the most dangerous of all extremists, because they are caught in a paradox: The desperately want to die and be received in heaven, but their belief system prohibits suicide. This paradox creates an agonized disequilibrium that they are desperate to resolve in the only way possible: by instigating the Rapture, which, in their recursive logic, they believe is both possible and imminent. They will not stop their destructive behavior until they are called up to their maker. And they make up 1/3 of the population of this country.

[troublemaker]

30. Impossible and undesirable

The last century of American politics has been a process of legitimizing fascism through efforts to "reach out" to the old confederacy.

Until the Civil War is thought of the same way we think of WWII there's little hope.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. It's possible . two little words:

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE.

[noiretextatique]

32. when was it "united?" and no

it's not possible.

[Liberal Classic]

33. I will say yes

Lincoln was exactly right that a house divided against itself cannot stand. Also as Franklin said, we must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

One important thing to note, that no matter how the problems are, the gulf between Democrats and Republicans is not so great as those between political factions in other nations. Consider India's violence between Hindus and Muslims, or the former Yugoslavia, or Northern Ireland. The list goes on and on.

Part of the problem lies in human nature. Insular groups tend to exclude outsiders thereby exacerbate the problem. I'll use Democratic Underground and Free Republic as examples. Both of these sites are quite hostile to the other side, and such hostility even hatred is encouraged. It is reinforced because this is a place to rant, to vent, it is a support forum. No one wants to hear that the "other guys" have good qualities. It doesn't make for a good rant. However, insular and inward facing attitudes tends to foster negative and extremist attitudes against the other side. We must be careful not to demonize the other side. We must not succumb to hate.

There was a thread a few weeks ago asking if anyone could marry a Republican. The general consensus was no for all kinds of reasons. As part of being a devil's advocate, I took the affirmative, saying that love trandscends. If Palestinans and Israelis can intermarry (even a few) and Northern Ireland Catholics and Protestants can intermarry, then there's no reason that love can't breach the gulf between American Democrats and Republicans. Carville's anyone?

My perspective is that of a third-party voter. I believe the greens and libertarians are the future. As such I am an outsider in *both* Republican and Democratic circles. My social circles tend to span both. My opinions are no more extreme than those in either, but I tend to group them differently. Because of this, however, I am different and people tend to hate and fear what is different. This, too, is human nature. However, from my viewpoint, no gap is too wide that a little love cannot breach.

Now, I can expect the likely response to my post. I am likely to be told that the other side has no redeeming values, or no values whatsoever. I am likely to be told that the other side has inflicted injustice on us first, hated us first, used dirty tricks first, and so are so are not to be trusted. I am likely to be told that I am giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I am likely to be told that I am working against my very own class interest. I am likely to be told that I am a dupe. I am likely to be told that I am a disruptor. How dare I make positive statements against the American Nazis and American Taliban? How dare I intrude on the safe zone by making such statements?

The funny thing is, say something good about Democrats to Republicans and I get the *exact* same thing. There are a lot of excuses for not seeing the good in other people. Hug a Pubbie. You might find they're human beings.

[mandyky]

35. Thanks for a GREAT post!

You wrote a thoughtful reply with lots of insight we should honestly try to emmulate. If I'd have thought it was impossible for America to reunite, I doubt I'd have started the thread. Thanks once again for a thoughtful insight!

[Cat Atomic]

34. I think a second Bush term will unite the country.

At least, certain aspects of the country that aren't usually united. They're stomping on labor way too hard. It's only a matter of time before people stop paying attention to wedge issue bullshit, and start pushing for their own economic interests. And by that I mean a real labor movement.

[AG78]

36. Not that I can see

Maybe you could shake the hand of a reasonable Republican, but not what they're turning into.

Nobody wants Global Fascism. But thanks to the culture war, it's happening.

If you want to use their political lingo, the left and right agree on one thing; no fascism. But the two sides(using the system's lingo for divide and conquer) can't agree to work together to stop it. That's where we have the problem. And that's where the Corporations are winning.

The side that the culture war controls, unconsciously welcomes fascism. Even though the corporations that make the culture that's hated, the people that fight that culture war give more power to corporations. Thomas Frank is a pretty smart guy.

The side that the culture war doesn't control, doesn't have any power, outside of mass social movements. And those are harder and harder to come by because the system makes sure that every possible difference between two people is exploited. Be it black and white, male and female, old and young, left and right, etc, etc.

So no, I only see things getting worse. Especially after the next election, if there is one. No matter who wins, it will divide more people. If Bush wins, things continue the way they've been going. If Kerry wins, the Theocratic Fascists will pump that culture war to another degree.

[Deja Q]

37. If we were ever united, it was for a common goal...

We need a new common goal and allow our differences to be tolerated.

Peak oil should be the catalyst, but our public prefers to drink the k00l-aid and accept the status quo.

Oh well.

[redwitch]

38. I have been thinking about this myself alot lately

I am very much afraid that it would take a cataclysmic event to unite us for more than a moment or two. Remember our love fest after 9/11? Boy has that gone by the by! I am very much afraid of what is to come regardless of who is elected, though obviously a Kerry victory is infinitely preferable to a second Bush term. If Bush gets 4 more years we are cooked. But even if Kerry is elected we will have to look forward to the bashing from the right on every stinking issue. I think the media is full of shit (mostly) and totally beholden to corporate America.They have left us wide open for a takeover by the religious right, I don't know if we will survive the next decade, I am very much afraid. Shit. I also find myself thinking hateful thoughts alot, let's face it, there is alot to hate. Sorry for the rambling, I am very unsettled today!

[Kanary]

39. It's like *any* relationship...... one side can't make it happen

Relationships can never work when it's just one side that wants it. Marriage counseling fails when both people aren't comitted to it's success.

Same with a country....... when one side is determined to "win" at all costs, and drive the other party out, there isn't much chance of a reconciliation. Just capitulating to that force doesn't make "love" blossom.

Our society has bought into the "kick their butts" scenario to the point where that's all most people see... just damage your foe until they are vanquished, and you win. That doesn't win in relationships, and it doesn't win in nations.

Some sort of 3rd party threat can temporarily bring about a "truce", but nothing is resolved...... the basic underlying dissention is bound to come back, just like in Iraq, after the invasion ends. That threat from outside doesn't change hearts and minds.

Yes, we had the illusion of "United We Stand" after Sept 11. BUt, illusion is what is was. Where I lived, there were still ongoing fights between those who lived in the city, and those who lived in the mountains. United? I think not. Nothing of substance was really learned.

Kanary

[maggrwaggr]

40. not as long as "YOU TOO CAN MAKE BIG $$ BASHING DEMOCRATS"

As long as people are heavily rewarded for spreading hate, at any cost, as Hannity, Rush, Savage, Coulter, and the like are ....

No.

The more hate they spread, the better they do financially. The more copycats they create.

It's a cottage industry now, this "hate the liberals" thing.

[NJCher]

41. good point, m/w, and to add to it

All the r-w "think tanks" that are in reality just propaganda mills. The r-w, because of all the corporate donations, can afford to have a paid staff pushing their POV 24/7.

We don't have that. We have a few liberal think tanks but they are not propaganda institutes and even if they were, it's doubtful they could get corporate media to carry their message anyway.


Cher

[Commendatori]

42. No, it isn't possible at all.

The have-nots want more, the haves want to keep more. Both sides feel screwed.

Most of the Repugs I know actually believe that if you pay no income tax, you shouldn't have the right to vote. That's how far the divide reaches.

No, it isn't possible.