I just had my first "Hate Walmart" experience

[timdoodle]

My local merchant who has supplied me for years quit selling his product on Monday. He said that he is simply "tired" of fighting Walmart, mail order, and others over what amounts to pennies on the dollar. But here is the strange thing: I will continue to shop at Walmart, Target, SuperK, for one reason - convenience.

Where is the middle ground here?

[arcane1]

1. the middle ground is disappearing

along with the middle class

[timdoodle]

2. Thanks

But that doesn't answer my question...

[fob]

15. You are clearly a world class thinker, arcane1.

If I would have stopped at the subject I could've beaten you to the punch!! (see post below)

[arcane1]

23. GMTA

:thumbsup:

[Javaman]

45. I'm no communist...

But the Russian revolution, if my memory serves me well, started because the gulf between the haves and the have nots, grew to large. Aka the vanishing of the middle class.
So on the current trend of our nation, I give it another 20 or 30 years.

[drthais]

3. there IS no middle ground

everyone of us should avoid Big Box stores
like the plague that they are...

I know it is less convenient
to go to two stores or even three rather than one
but the fate of the merchant you talk about
is the fate of scores of local merchants here
and WalMart is to blame

(and Target and Home Depot and on and on and on)

but don't worry
when the oil starts to run out
you'll have to stay in town and shop the little guys
because you won't be able to tool around suburbia

[timdoodle]

7. I don't tool around

and I don't live in suburbia, and I don't burn oil...

What I want to know is how, with the limited time and money I do have, can I shop the mom and pop's when they close at 7 and are further away?

[MsUSA]

25. Try car pooling.....

and make a road trip out of it. :)

[radwriter0555]

20. Then we need to consider how much we REALLY NEEED to consume... now

don't we?

Do we REALLY need to save a dollar on toilet paper, when in fact while we're buying 360 rolls at once, we'll find scores of other, "oh I'll just pick this up" items.... which automatically increases our actual expenditure 100X?


I've been in walmart ONCE in my whole life. How is it that I've managed to survive? I live in Los Angeles.... and rarely buy from any chain stores. I shop the korean grocery for produce and meat their hamburger, top quality, .99c lb, romaine lettuce, 2 heads for .99c... ralphs prices are 3 - 4 times that... and the korean market is CLEANER, faster, less crowded, easy parking!

I get my beef from the mexican market's butcher. The fellow there knows me, knows JUST how I like my steaks sliced, precisely how thick, for $3 $5 a pound. TOP quality!

Ribs, I get either from Smart & Final (commercial grocery) along with cleaning supplies.

Fresh veggies from the local farmers markets, and the baker there is AMAZING!!!

It's not hard at all to shop the local markets and retailers. I help keep my neighbors in business.... and I'd rather spend an extra 20 minutes doing it, than wallow in a walmart!

[Reverend_Smitty]

4. Shop at Target instead

The way that Walmart treats their employees makes me want to :puke:

Unfortunately we live in a time where mom and pop opperations can no longer afford to stay open. These corporations are systematically killing a wonderful part of the American tradition.

[jjmalonejr]

6. Is Target really better?

I ask that as an honest question.

I don't shop at department stores much, anyway, but I usually go to Target and tell myself that it's better than Wal-Mart.

Am I kidding myself?

[Reverend_Smitty]

11. I'm not entirely sure

I don't have any hard evidence to prove this but I tell myself the same thing. "At least its better than Wal-Mart"

The problem with the area that I live in, is there is no non-chain stores around me...I have to choose the lesser of two evils

[madrchsod]

14. at least target has

ceilings in their stores. there stuff is alittle better than walmart esp the designer stuff,which is pretty cool. target , goodwill,and specialty shops are about the only stores my daughter will shop at

[spooky3]

50. I don't know of any employee lawsuits against Target but Wal-Mart

has had tons of them and lost quite a high %. They are currently facing a class action sex discrimination suit that if they don't settle, I predict they will lose. I know it's a difficult decision that depends on your situation and everyone's situation is different. I've never been inside a Wal-Mart because to me, their practices are so offensive. I would rather go without a few consumer items, or eat a few more meals at home, so that I can pay the slightly higher prices at a store I can respect (e.g., Container Store is one of the best to its employees, great products, and not expensive). Maybe someone else would know more about Target.

A DUer posted that when a neighbor bragged to her about how cheap a cute little Wal-Mart dress was for her granddaughter, she responded that it's too bad someone else's granddaughter in China had to work long hours to make it cheaply for her. IIRC, the neighbor returned the dress.

We need to remember also that if we don't keep Wal-Mart's competitors in business, soon Wal-Mart will have no more competitors, and will feel free to jack the prices up as high as they want, particularly with friends in the White House and Congress who won't stand in the way.

[dmr]

5. Here's a website you might find interesting

http://www.sprawl-busters.com/

[Armstead]

8. Put up with some inconvenience

I live in a small city in which Wal Mart has helped to decimate local retailing. But the remaining ones arer fighting hard to stay alive.

When there is no choice, I shop at Wal Mart. But only when I have checked out the other options first.

If I need a hammer I'll go to the hardware store first to see if they have it. If not, I'll try Sears or any other alternative. If I still can't find it I go to Wal Mart.

A little inconvenience is not worth it if it means helping Wal Mart cannibalize the rest of the retail economy.

[fob]

13. "If I still can't find it I go to Wal Mart."

Borrow one from a neighbor, look for a "Tool Library", try local swap meets and buy used, JUST DON'T GO TO MALL-WART!!

Once you delete them as an option, you WILL find alternatives.

[LuminousX]

31. There is no Wal-Mart, what you think is a Wal-Mart is a roach motel

instead, slowly killing the American middleclass.

[classof56]

9. It's a complicated issue, IMHO

I'm not sure about a middle ground. More stores with good selection and prices are part of huge corporations selling products made overseas, and sometimes it's hard not to think about just what conditions exist for the workers making the products. In my case, I am on a fixed income and while I take issue with Walmart and others' business practices, I shop there because...well, frankly, it's to my financial advantage to do so.

Just one of today's world's realities that we each have to decide how to deal with. These stores do provide employment in the areas where they exist, though not the best wages, working conditions and sometimes no benefits. It's the world we live in, though--many "moral dilemmas" we have to face and resolve.

Welcome to DU, BTW. Glad to have you aboard.

[timdoodle]

10. Thanks

Good points, much like my own situation.

[fob]

12. the middle ground is shrinking, just like the middle class.

Do yourself a favor and quit Mall-Wart(DU inspired reference) cold turkey. You have been sucked in and it is imperative to get out of the corporate stronghold. Make the effort and take the time to find local merchants, you may not succeed, but cross Mall-wart off your list and go only to the others as NECESSARY. I'd put SuperK at the top (tacit support for Martha products) and expand out from there. I've found local merchants in my area, it takes longer to get things, and it costs more, but here's the benefits;

My money stays in my community
The higher prices support higher wages
The longer process makes me cut back in wants, go more for needs
If the business shows any RW trends, I can stop going there and let them know
If the business shows Demo trends, I spread the word and support them even more

Advice offered at wholesale, take it or leave it.

[timdoodle]

16. Thanks Foe

I appreciate the response.

[BlueEyedSon]

17. Costco is DEFINITELY BETTER

[Amarant]

41. Obviously

you have never worked there. Although they are better than wal mart - of the many places I have been employed costco was one of my least favorite employers.

[BlueEyedSon]

42. By all accounts, Wal-mart is worse. Can you IMAGINE?

[neoteric lefty]

18. It is tough for a lot of people.

I live less than 500 yards from a local Wal-Mart (it is still a nice area though :)) and I know it is tough to travel out of my way to get the things I need. I admit that I have shopped there a few times (either being at 4:00 in the morning or something went wrong with my car) and each time, I dread the experience more and more. However, I get upset at some posters who assume that if you step foot in a Wal-Mart, you are somehow joined Satan's army or something. Being a college student, I know what it is like to be financially strapped. Sometimes, our means are so low, that we have to compromise a little. It is important to support local merchants ,as they are the lifeblood of any local economy, but some of us have to get off our soapboxes. I feel there is a middle-ground to be found for us all.

[Snoggera]

19. A timely news article

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-07-20-chain-stores_x.htm

[LizW]

21. It doesn't save you money to shop at WalMart

Seriously, I have been in there twice in the last year. Both times I was shopping for an event and using someone else's money, so I did go for the cheaper price. But when it comes to my own money, I find the best way to save is to stay out of there.

WalMart is geared toward making you want stuff you don't need. You go in there to buy underwear and socks and you walk out with 20 items.

I'm a sucker for all those plastic boxes and home organization items, and WalMart is a paradise of that stuff. But if I stay out of there, I don't see them, and I'm quite happy to do my storage and organization in recycled cardboard. If I don't go in there and see 15 different kinds of cute sandals, I'm perfectly happy with the three pair I already own.

My mother thinks she can't live without WalMart. She keeps a running list all the time and goes in there at least three times a week. She buys her groceries there (yuck). I've tried to tell her that she doesn't need all that crap, that her life would be just as full without it, but to no avail. Of course, she really enjoys shopping, the whole experience of it, so she's getting something out of it that I don't understand. I'm a recluse and I hate shopping, so it's really not a big sacrifice for me to stay out of there.

[LuminousX]

32. Saw this posted elsewhere on DU, fits with your post

http://biz.yahoo.com/brn/040719/13267_1.html

[readmylips]

22. To shop at Walmart, must be careful, wise shopper....

Walmart caters to the uninformed, high sugar, high fat, who cares what I eat, as long as I eat population. Especially in the food, produce, meat section. If we need deli products, Walmart has mid-quality brand names, same as any other store for less money. The beef, chicken, pork etc. are just horrible. The paper and detergent products are less than any other store. Good buy. Their roasted chickens are a good buy. Beats their expensive, repulsive uncooked chicken. Their roasted chickens are not as great as Costco's. At Walmart, most fresh produce are second class and don't last long. They spoil fast. Their bakery is horrible. Quality, don't look for it at Walmart. We use Albertsons for most meat products. They have their own butcher shop and great prices. For bulk products, we use Costco. Fresh produce, we buy from our local Farmers Market.

[LuminousX]

33. Does Walmart use union butchers?

I don't expect you to know this, but having a butcher in the family, one who went from working stiff to manager, he always valued a union butcher over non-union.

Walmart isn't union friendly so they probably just get the kid who finished facing Aisle 17 to go cut grind some burger or chop out some ribs.

[Toucano]

35. No, they are STRONGLY anti-union.

Walmart closed it's meat department because of a union vote.

"Critics say Wal-Mart moves quickly to block organizing. In 2000, a majority of meat cutters at a store in Jacksonville, Texas, voted to organize. Shortly after the vote, the company closed its butcher departments at Jacksonville and other stores. Organizers say that was done to quash the union; Wal-Mart says it was part of a long-term business plan to move to prepackaged meats."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2003-02-09-walmart-cov_x.htm

I've heard of them closing the meat department for a day at a time if workers even thought about unionizing.

[Mr_Charlie]

24. Add this to the feelings of hate: Walmart Walton's political donations

Be sure to shower after looking at how these billionaires donate their cash...
http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=BENTONVILLE&st=AR&last=Walton

[funkybutt]

26. BOYCOTT WALMART!

i've been doing it for 4 years!

[catmandu57]

27. I met Sam Walton in 1986

My uncle was guiding him on a pheasant hunt, He was a pretty nice guy, bought my lunch in the local diner and shared the brownies his wife had baked. His descendants on the other hand, I'm not liking at all, I'm tired of their super patriot rah rah america, wave the flag bullshit.
They have cost many American jobs importing from China, there must be a super hyway of cargo ships plying back and forth across the Pacific, one after another.
We buy part of our groceries there because to be honest we're poor, and we're going to stay poor no matter who runs things. They're building a super Target store that is supposed to open in time for christmas right next door to the malwart. I told the Marshmallow woman that when it opens I'm not darkening the doors of malwart ever again.
In a perfect world I'd buy everything right here in town, as it is I buy as much as possible here. There is a local owned grocery, that is hard to get around in on the weekend, it's so crowded and I like to buy from them, We buy 95% of our meat there, and fresh produce what we don't grow ourselves.
In the long run malwart will fade and die, after November I'll be helping to hasten their demise.

[Saltdog]

28. There are other options

I never shop at Walmart.

Walmart does not go into a market where there are not already stores offering the basic products they intend to sell. I read a comprehensive study last year showing how Walmart specifically targets areas where they end up replacing (displacing) local merchants who sell similar products. Once Walmart moves in, the local merchants are forced out of business and the people who used to make living wages with the local merchants are forced to work at Walmart for minimum wage without benefits.

For groceries, I shop at Hyvee, which is employee owned. I shop on-line for movies and media. I buy clothes through catalogs and local outfitters.

I find it hard to believe that there are no alternatives for people. I really have to believe that there is a rationalization that their modest purchases don't make much difference and so they might as well save a few dollars. The problem is when millions of people think the same thing, we end up with Walmart as the single largest employer and retailer in the world and members of the heavily right-wing supporting Walton family being 5 of the top 10 richest people in the world.

Please don't make it any worse than it is.

Is there a middle ground? Is there any harm in routinely voting for and sending money to Republicans as long as you also try to send money to and vote for Democrats?

Boycott Walmart.

[fudge stripe cookays]

29. Well said, saltdog.

Sorry neolefty.

As a college student, you may think you're saving money, but you're not in the long run.

And when you add everything else up into the equation, you're losing far more than you're gaining.

The Republican donations, the support for school vouchers (that are helping to kill our public schools), the shitty way they treat their employees and their families, the decimation of locally owned mom and pop stores....they all add up.

The only reason I can see going there is the car problem example in the middle of the night. And even then, I'd probably sleep in my car so I could do something the next day instead of going in there.

If you shop at Wal-Mart, you are helping to kill this country. Don't we have enough Republicans to do that without your helping them? You can justify all you want, but that's what's happening.

FSC

[G_j]

34. I agree with you good post n/t

[Blue Wally]

39. Mom and Pop stores??

"Once Walmart moves in, the local merchants are forced out of business and the people who used to make living wages with the local merchants are forced to work at Walmart for minimum wage without benefits."

1. Mom and Pop stores do not pay living wages (I used to work for one).

2. Mom and Pop stores do not have benefits either.

3. You don't get promoted in a Mom and Pop store, that is "junior's" job when he comes of age.

[yankeedem]

43. Mom and Pop make living wages

And spend all of their money in the community instead of shipping it to Arkansas.

Point 1 and 2 are often true, but as far as promotions, Walmart seems to have a problem with promoting women.

[Blue Wally]

47. And Mom and Pop

If they made enough money would open a chain of stores just like Sam Walton did. I can remember when Target was the discount store in the basement of JL Hudson's department store in downtown Detroit.

[GizDog]

30. let's see...

The stuff mart moves into a small town.

Everyone rushes to the all mighty stuff mart in droves.

Slowly over a year or two every small, independant business is driven into bankruptcy.

Next thing you only have the great and powerful stuff mart and long lines because they don't have enough competition to offer customer service any more.

Yup, I just love the stuff mart!

[knitter4democracy]

36. Here's what I do

We have Meijer's here, which was the first store like that in the nation--and they're union. If I need something a local merchant can't provide, I go to Meijer's.

We also have a couple good local, and union, grocery chains I go to most of the time. They're much better anyway.

There's a local farm that's started delivering fresh-picked produce that we get, and now they have something like seven family farms involved--everything from free-range eggs to the best tomatoes ever. Since they deliver, nobody can beat that for convenience. The price is probably what we'd pay at the farmer's market, so we do it.

Try seeing what's in your area. Ask around at the farmer's market--you'd be suprised what's available. As for clothes, consignment shops are better anyway.

[timdoodle]

Thanks

I'll try that now.

[timdoodle]

37. Delete

Double post

[Neshanic]

38. I refuse to go Walmart. I go to Albertson's.

I will pay an extra dime or two, so they can have their workers treated well. Also I do shop at Costco often.

The Walmarts in Phoenix are depressing in their utterly filthy parking lots, the city minimum of trees planted, and then cut down after 6 months, because they do not want to pay to take care of plants.

[trof]

40. Ever since I read "Nickled and Dimed"

I only go to WalMart for things I can't get anywhere else.
Mainly for Ol' Roy peanut butter bones, which our geriatric Greman Shepherd loves.
Sometimes it's weeks (or months?) between trips.

My in-laws, whose son-in-law is a WalMart store manager, feel the same way.

[MISSDem]

44. I do not shop at Wal Mart. I buy stuff like coffee, detergent

at Wild Oat because I want fair trade coffee and environmentally sensitive soap. I don't buy meat
and only buy produce when I can get organically grown stuff.
For usual stuff I go to Target and to Kroger for last minute items.

[HippieCowgirl]

46. WalMart is going to change the world - for the worse.

They are creating a whole new class of people. They work at wal-mart, and make very little money. When it comes time to buy the groceries, they go back to wal-mart to buy cheap but second-class merchandise. It's a monster that eats itself. The ultimate company store.

[Mr_Spock]

48. I DO NOT SHOP AT WALL MART EVER !

Some of us can take a stand.

[Dem_4_Life]

49. Boycotting Wal-Mart is the best feeling ever...

It is one small thing we can do in our daily lives to help America. I refuse to give any of my money to Wal-Mart or Sams. I know it is a convenience but you will definitely find alternatives and you will feel so much better about yourself.

[Sugarbleus]

51. I get the argument about wal mart and target etc..

I understand that mom and pop stores are getting reamed and that is pretty sad.

On the other hand, I need goods and services from time to time. In my case, it just so happens that I live in a VERY progressive "green belt" community....there is nearly zero competition in terms of retailers. There is ONE tiny little Mall with the usual stores. There is on Orchard Supply Hardware store, maybe a true value someplace around town. One Costco, which people had to fight tooth and nail with City council to have built. Most of the stores here are specialty shops, not much everyday merchandise. I can't buy from a selection of Microwave ovens for example. I have one or two places to chose from and that's it.

There are no Wal marts, there is a small Target store about 16 miles down the highway in the next town. One very run down Kmart. No Home depot........nothing like those types of big box stores in the entire county at all. That's fine except there aren't ANY other choices either. This presents a conundrum; where do I find products? Oh, there is a Circuit City (Sucker City IMO)

Our choices are to drive our tax dollars far out of town to purchase stuff OR buy online or out of catalogs. The stores we do have are touristy types; specialty stores--quaint but useless for everyday needs. Plenty of high end restaurants and a few taco bells. :eyes:
In our case, it is our county and city planners that will not allow any more growth.........not even for the small business person.

In the end, I'd say my community wasn't very progressive at all.

[unkachuck]

52. The middle ground....

.....is to Unionize Wal-Mart.....