Joe Trippi: 'Howard Dean never believed in the movement' True or False?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

"Howard Dean never believed in the movement," Joe Trippi said. "Never. And I was never managing the thing. Never. Howard Dean was his own manager."
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040719/usnews/19point.3c_5.htm

I guess I should make it clear, the question is 'do you believe what Trippi is saying is true or false', not 'was he accurately quoted'.

[Rowdyboy]

1. Having followed Trippi for some years, I don't doubt this in the least

He's really bright and talented but way too often he's clueless.

[gardenista]

2. Um, how is this a poll? Are you asking whether Trippi was quoted?

Yes, he was.

But I have a question of my own:

Will Feanorcurufinwe ever get over it?

Yes

No

Sadly, I think it's no.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

I don't understand your personal attack on me.

Could you please explain what it means? I don't get it.

Just what criticism are you making of me? What is the flaw in my character you want to highlight?

[gardenista]

6. Oh please, why can't you just let go of the Dean thing?

It's not a personal attack. I'm just saying that it's getting old.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. I happen to think Dean is an interesting public figure,

worthy of discussion. I like politics and I found this series in US News & World very interesting. And I was very surprised to read this statement from Trippi. I was interested in what true Dean supporters and others on DU thought about this comment.


Now you seem to have some personal animus towards me that makes you believe something about me -- but frankly I don't know what it is except you seem to believe I shouldn't discuss Dean.

Will Feanorcurufinwe ever get over it?


Yes, that is a personal attack against me, even though I don't really know what it means, it is about me, and it is clearly a negative comment. But I have to ask again - GET OVER WHAT? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


For the record, I will continue to speak out about any subject I damn well please, and now that I know it bothers you for some reason - well I'll just consider that a bonus.

[Cheswick2.0]

38. right

:lol:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. What do you think?

I think it is crazy to say that Howard Dean never believed in the movement. But I am an outsider. You, I am guessing from your extreme animosity towards me, are not.


So, what do you think?

[gardenista]

9. And, would you please explain how this is a poll?

What are you asking here?

This ain't no poll, this is yet another Dean-bashing session.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Nope, I won't explain.

If the statement the question is 'do you believe what Trippi is saying is true or false', not 'was he accurately quoted' in the original post isn't clear enough to you, you'll just have to guess what it means, because I can't think of any way to explain it any more simply. Tant pis.

[gardenista]

16. Thanks for editing. Now it looks like a poll rather than your usual

Dean attack.

It's sad to see that Dean's detractors can't graciously accept the support he has given to Kerry and to the party. What a shame.

I invite you to continue to post whatever you'd like. It doesn't mean I won't find these lame attempts to disparage Dean rather pathetic.

edit: spelling

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. LOL check the timestamps.

Your fantasies about my motivations are just that - fantastic products of your mind, unrelated to me in any way.


If you would respond to my actual words, instead of the hidden meanings and secret agendas YOU assign to them, you would discover an ally.

[gardenista]

24. Thanks for suggesting I check the timestamps. Looks like we both

figured out that this wasn't a poll at precisely the same time!

Now where have I not responded to you? Sorry, I was too busy fantasizing about kicking Bush's ass despite my disgust with certain Kerry supporters who can't get over the fact that Howard Dean stood up to Bush first, and is now completely and unequivocally supporting a Kerry victory.

[Radical Activist]

3. Sure. Dean was always a moderate posing

as a progressive. Why would he believe in a movement of progressives?

[Cheswick2.0]

28. Dean never posed

He never said he was a liberal.

[Eric J in MN]

4. I think Trippi meant the movement in support from Dean to Kerry (nt)

nt

[Bucky]

5. Up is downism. Of course Dean believed in Dean power.

People aren't that dumb. Well, most Democrats aren't, anyway. Trippi just sounds bitter. 90% of politicians aren't everything they paint themselves to be. Maybe Clark is 90% patriot and 10% ego. Maybe Edwards is 80% populist and 20% slickness. Maybe Bush is 15% God-fearing good old boy and only 85% asshole.

But on the whole people are good for what they say and stand for. People powered Howard wasn't entirely Jimmy Stewart in "Mr Smith Goes to Washington", but he was honest enough to be taken at face value. Trippi will end up retracting those words some time in the next 20 years when some historian interviews him about the Dean movement.

[madfloridian]

7. My opinion: Trippi is covering his butt a little here.

I am sure Howard Dean was not easy to "manage", neither are his avid supporters. However, Trippi was the Iowa expert, he knew there were problems, and he did not fix them.

When you do that, and write a book blaming Dean, then you are covering your butt.

He was the campaign manager, and it was his job to take care of things.

From what I have read, he was not totally quoted accurately. It is skewed a little.

[Bombtrack]

8. Dean always struck me as an extremely disingenuous and opportunistic

person. It bugs me how everyone is willing to forget all the crap he did just because he's helping the party now.

[gardenista]

10. Woooohooooooo! Here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please name all the "crap" we've forgotten. Even just a few facts would be lovely.

[Justitia]

18. Facts? Didn't I hear someone ask for facts?

\crickets chirping

Who needs facts when broad based insult and innuendo are just so handy?

Wow, it is unreal how I continue to see Dean bashing bullshit on some threads and yet others bitch, moan and whine about how Dems never stand up to GOP dirty tricks and attacks a la Sandy Berger.

So much complaining about how Dems never get up and fight, never answer the ridiculous charges, never throw it back in their faces and then some - BUT -

Howard Dean (who is currently working his ass off for the benefit of the ENTIRE PARTY) is still some kind of pariah in these parts.

I really, really wonder if this party deserves a Howard Dean.

[gardenista]

20. Hear, hear! nt

[patrice]

13. You've just generally described ALL politicians

and all of their professional staff.

I'm sure they prefer to think of themselves as "playing it close to the vest" rather than disingenuous, and "smart" rather than opportunistic.

"You say tomato; I say tomahto. Let's call the whole thing off . . ."

[madfloridian]

33. You just described polilticians in general. Good description.

It's funny how we are supposed to forget all the stuff done to Dean, and just forget all about it.

He's working his butt off for the party, and everybody wants to slam. Wish you guys would quit your whining.

You are playing the martyr because he attacked your candidate just like all the others were attacking him.

Get over it, move along.

Now I feel better.

[Cheswick2.0]

36. what crap is that? Would that be the crap where he was right about

the war? Or was it the crap where he said things and then Kerry parroted his best lines? Or was it the crap where he woke the party up and gave them the guts to speak out?

[WillyT]

11. Not A-Fucking-gain !?!?!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaa..................................................................
..............................................................................................................

:hurts:

I thought Obsession was a Cologne?

:shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. You object to US News doing a story on the Iowa caucuses?

Why? I don't get it. What is the objection?

[gardenista]

17. Hey, good one! Right out of the Rove playbook!

By pointing out the transparent attack on Dean, we are presumed to object to USNews and its editorial decisions.

:silly:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. So now I'm 'Rovian'?

Are personal attacks against me all you have to add to the discussion?

[gardenista]

27. Wow, you did it again!

Did I call you "Rovian"?

No, I challenged the validity of your assertion.

Sorry that you think it was a personal attack.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Why are all your posts about me?

What is it about me that you find more fascinating than politics, world affairs, or any other topic? Don't you have anything more interesting to think about, than me?

I sincerely hope so.

[gardenista]

51. What makes you think I find you fascinating?

Once again with the self-agrandisement. I'm simply questioning the validity of your position.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gardenista]

54. ROFL

How sad.

[JNelson6563]

87. You seem to have the most posts

with you as the topic.

;-)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

91. When you make a personal comment about me, I will respond.

I won't respond in kind, with a personal comment about you, because I don't give a fuck about you, but I will defend myself.

Don't like it? Good.

[JNelson6563]

94. *yawn*

I'm sorry, did you say something? :shrug:

Julie

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gardenista]

37. "Personal Attack"

Is a great little buzz phrase to try and silence critics of the substance of your argument.

Kinda like "We don't 'attack' our pResident during wartime."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. You are accusing me of having a 'little gang' and 'baiting'

Yet somehow, you aren't making a PA. OK.


I really don't know what it is that has people in this thread upset, other than animosity towards me.


Can you explain it?

[gardenista]

42. Could it be that it's basically the same thread? Over and over and over..

What do you hope to acheive with this?

[w13rd0]

21. The phrase "poor whiney tired ass lame fuck winners that seem"...

..."as classless as a Bush" mean anything to anyone else?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. So I'm not allowed to discuss Dean without having insults hurled at me?

Why? Why do you find it so objectionable for me mention Dean's name?

[w13rd0]

25. Are you such an egoist that you must assume...

...every insult uttered is directed solely at you? How tiresome.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. So you know how to insult someone without breaking DU rules. Big whoop.

Who cares? I know how to do that too, and it is that that I find tiresome.


Really, I am asking you a sincere and respectful question. Why do you find it objectionable for me to mention Dean's name?

[gardenista]

40. I'll take that one!

To sincerely answer your question, why is it that virtually every thread you start has some sort of anti-Dean slant?

Really, haven't we all got better things to do than have the same discussion with you?

This is the first time I have ever responded to this nonsense. I guess I reached my breaking point tonight.

No one has said that they "find it objectionable for you to mention Dean's name"

But many have said that they find the endless stream (ok, now it qualifies as a trickle) of thinly veiled attacks on Dean irritating.

What are you so afraid of? Dean, and the vast majority of his supporters have fully thrown their support, money, and most importantly, their vote, fully behind KERRY. Don't you get it? What do you want from us?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. Look, I sincerely don't care what you think about me.

Haven't you gotten that message yet? I'd be interested in hearing what you think about any other topic - but as far as the subject of me goes, I totally don't give a shit what you think.

[w13rd0]

44. If one finds it so tiresome...

...why make it the primary content of ones posting resume?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

59. Yawn. Why do you find it objectionable for me to mention Dean?

[Dookus]

35. Don't you know by now?

The only approved discussion topic for Howard Dean is whether he's more akin to Superman, Jesus or SuperJesus.

[Justitia]

41. I knew I'd see you here soon, to crap all over Dean

What is it with you people?
Why are you constantly taking potshots at someone doing something beneficial for the party & it's candidate?
It looks like some kind of weird envy / jealousy thing - I just don't get it.
Are you just pissed that Dean was popular?
Would you rather he just dropped off the face of the earth, instead of doing the hard work he is doing on behalf of all of us?

Why on earth do you want to continue to alienate your fellow Dems and Kerry supporters?

This is some kind of circle jerk, I tell ya.

[Dookus]

50. LOL

am I pissed Dean was popular? No... I was quite happy with his popularity - 18% in Iowa, as I recall.

This is an internet discussion board devoted to politics. We discuss politics here. Surely you knew that. Do you object to the hundreds of pro-Dean threads posted every week here?

As usual, any time I or others say anything less than laudatory about Dean, one of the Dean purity-posse shows up to insult us. It's ok... I'm used to it. I find it sorta amusing.

[Justitia]

57. Well, I've noticed you are quick on the scene of a Dean bashing

and it makes me wonder as to your particular fascination with the man.

If you are so indifferent to Dean, not threatened by him, why bother? I don't see so many trying to tear down the myths of Dennis K, Wes Clark, Al Sharpton, Joe Lieberman or Carol Moseley-Braun.

And Dean supporters insulting you? Funny, it sure looks to me like whenever Dean's name pops up, YOU swoop in to crap all over it.

Yep, some in the circular firing squad sure know how to shoot themselves in the foot. Keep it up guys, very effective.

[Dookus]

66. Let's make a deal

if you guys shut up about him, I won't say a word about him. How's that?

Why does it bother you so much that people disagree with you about Howard Dean? Read this thread - almost NO discussion about the topic at hand. It's all "stop bashing Dean!" complaints. And in fact, this thread doesn't even bash Dean! Why so super-sensitive? Are you threatened?

The fact is, I like Howard Dean just fine. It's his followers that get on my nerves. I've never seen such a touchy bunch in my life.

[Justitia]

69. This thread was started by a Dean hater, and you joined the chorus

Every once in awhile I get fed up with the gratuitous Dean bashing and feel it necessary to respond.
Tonight was one of those nights.
And I hardly call the descriptives of Dean simply "disagreeing", they were insults.
Why should we put up with that?
I don't throw crap at you like "Kerry is the Anointed One", the "Coronated One", the "Super Electable One" - so why start it up for Dean?

I seriously wonder if there are "plants" on here, meant to spread division.

[Dookus]

70. yes...

I'm a plant put here to spread division :eyes:

This is exactly what I'm talking about - the notion that somebody who disagrees with you on Howard Dean must be a secret mole. That doesn't strike you as a bit over-the-top?

I think the internet may be a bad place to spend time if disagreement upsets you so. And btw, I didn't insult Dean at all. I poked fun at a group of his adherents.

You can cry and whine all you want about perceived attacks on Dean, but it won't shut me up. We come here to discuss and debate politics. If you want a Dean lovefest, PM me and I can give you a link to a site more suitable for such discussions.

[Justitia]

72. Here's what's over the top:

"The only approved discussion topic for Howard Dean is whether he's more akin to Superman, Jesus or SuperJesus"

Dean Obsessors are a bore. Some people love to argue for the sake of argument - I call them a waste of time. I'm much more interested in the goals of the Democratic Party, not winning a mud-slinging match with some anonymous Howard Dean Hater.

"Cry & whine?", "Won't shut you up?" Crying and whining is for those who have nothing better to do than start inflamatory arguments on a freaking msg board in cyberspace, hoping like hell someone will come out and play with them. You "debate politics" like a RWer. I'm just tired enough to have fallen for it.

Anyway, carry on with your silly shit on whatever irrelevant tangent of Dean you can piece together. I have better things to do.

[Dookus]

73. You prove my point

with every post you make.

[TeacherCreature]

86. Alienating Democrats

That may be the purpose here. I can't figure another reason for attacking a man who the DNC is very grateful for. You have to ask youself why these SUPER LOYAL democrats are in direct conflict with the DNC on the subject of Howard Dean.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. I think

I'll repost it during the daytime when there are hopefully some mods around. This thread just got too full of off-topic crap too quick. There have only been a couple of actual comments on Trippi's statement, a statement that I found really surprising. Joe Trippi thinks Howard Dean never believed in the movement? wtf? Doesn't that sound kinda looney tunes? I just don't get it.

[gardenista]

47. Awwwww... your constant invocation the words "personal attack" didn't

get the result you were hoping for?

Ok, nighty night!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. Is it really necessary

to respond to every post I make, even the ones directed at other people?

What is your goal here? What are you trying to say?

[sendero]

83. Ok, I'll bite...

... as someone has already mentioned, this statement by Trippi (assuming it is correctly quoted) is a transparent CYA attempt. "Dean managed his own campaign" - well, nice way to get off the hook for the blowout and protect a possible future career in politics.

So, with that bogus-ass statement, Trippi destroys his credibility and makes his other point highly suspect.

[gardenista]

26. It's like an addiction or something.

What is it that one would hope to gain from this?

Obviously, the phrasing of the original post was not constructed in such a way as to foster constructive discussion or debate.

I think that it's just hard for some folks to be happy when things are going well. We are going to kick Bush out of the White House, and we will have a great President in John Kerry. I just shake my head and wonder why that is not enough.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. FF posts another pointless thread about Dean

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

[nomaco-10]

65. A classic case of total obsession.....

It's as if some people cannot grasp the concept that there was and still is a great many of us that still support Howard Dean and the movement he started. They cannot move on until we've all admitted the err of our ways and how wrong and misguided we all were not to be 100% behind Kerry from the beginning.
It's not even good enough for us to say we'll vote for Kerry, even though are hearts aren't in it. No, we must denounce Dean and forget about those minuscule little differences like the IWR, The Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, DOMA and a dozen other tiny little policy differences. It's gotten tedious beyond the point of anything remotely rational and flies against everything I always thought the dem party stood part.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. Please explain to me what I've said in this thread

that you perceive to be critical of Dean or his followers? I don't get it. Where did you the idea that I believe the things you put in your post?


:wtf:

[stickdog]

30. 'DLCers have never believed in anything except their own power & riches.'

True or false?

[Pastiche423]

43. True

[Justitia]

46. hee, hee Stickdog - true! Of course. -eom

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. I guess it would depend on the DLCer.

Am I mistaken -- wasn't Howard Dean a member of the DLC at one point?

[Justitia]

49. Yup, him & Al Gore. Both reformed and on the DLC hit list. -eom

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. Al Gore on the DLC hit list !! Now THAT is a fantasy!

Al Gore is the epitome of corporatist Democrat. But a few fiery speeches and 'all is forgiven' :eyes:

[Justitia]

58. Yeah, kinda like that war vote of Kerry & Edwards.

Do you REALLY want to go here???

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. Sure, go there. Why not?

I don't have a problem with any issue discussion people care to make. So go ahead - actually could you explain in more detail? Cuz I am a little confused. I described Gore as a corporatist and said a few fiery speeches and 'all is forgiven' and you replied "Yeah, kinda like that war vote of Kerry & Edwards." Umm, I just don't understand the simile...WHAT is like 'that war vote of Kerry & Edwards'?

[Justitia]

67. Nope. Not interested. Sorry.

I have watched you dissemble over Dean from afar, and it ain't pretty.

You have a serious itch for Dean, I must have just scratched it a little tonight, and we all know how crazy sensitive you are over certain folks senatorial votes on the war.

Unlike yourself, I don't look for ways to divide my party, I leave that to the Republicans and Ralph Nader. Are you in one of those camps?

I suggest you get a handle on your Dean obsession, it's freakish.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

71. So you don't want to expand on your remarks or explain your viewpoint?

You aren't interested in discussing the issues?

Why are you here then?



I'll try anyway. What do you think of Trippi's comment? Does it make sense to you?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

60. Trippi is starting to act like Dick Morris

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. Good analogy. Morris sure went off the deep end.

I find Trippi's statement to be bizarre and nonsensical. I'm almost tempted to make a pun about his name, it seems so out there.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

77. nice post for someone who is always claiming I am

personally attacking him. However, some of the people you admire and post with other places are banking industry bundlers who were BUNDLING for Howard Dean (GASP!!!) and while they'd never tell you and burst your bubble, they said the same thing about being on the inside of his campaign to me...keep sending them your money...a person has to have something to believe in even if it's of fairy tale proportions.

[CWebster]

79. Her, btw.

That is no secret, nsma.

It is a privilige and a pleasure to participate on the web in his company.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

81. Then why not go do that rather than deliberately antagonize here

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

88. It's just you never seem very happy here

[CWebster]

96. This is a political debate board, right, nsma?

What do you want, an echo chamber of the DLC cheering section? This board advertises itself as "progressive", yet you shout down, or attempt to shut out, with ongoing venom and angry accusation, any discussion of progressive views on the political issues of our times. I can't really see how that lends to the spirit of unity or would encourage anyone to consider your point of view. In essence it is bullying. It is you who are attempting to impose your definition of what must be conformed to. It is you who are unhappy with anyone who strays from your demands. It is you who engages in character assassination.

I think many here recognize the circumstances and are resigned to voting for Kerry. Perhaps, like me, they are more enthusiastic about building our party up from the ground in state and local races for the future, rather than rallying around Kerry in the present. And I don't think the bitter division on this site, notably between Dean and Clark supporters, stemming from the primaries, even enters into the Kerry scenario. Kerry was never popular among the progressive activist base.

I think the best thing Kerry cheerleaders can do is stay low profile rather than risk alienating anymore progressives who are hanging on by a thread.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

99. OK let's examine this statement

What do you want, an echo chamber of the DLC cheering section?

That's your snippy interpretation. Anyone who tires of your mutiny where our current candidate is concerned is some DLC'er. For the record, I am not a DLC'er and your childish attacks on people who don't wish this board to become the "AL Gore discovered Love Canal" mutiny center of the left are tiring..your posts ususally consist of name calling and smarmy generalizations.

This board advertises itself as "progressive", yet you shout down, or attempt to shut out, with ongoing venom and angry accusation, any discussion of progressive views on the political issues of our times.

NO I only take issue with regressive views. There's ONE candidate that can beat George Bush...anyone thinking otherwise needs a one way ticket to fantasyland. BTW..there is NOTHING progressive about spreading propaganda about the ONE person that can beat George Bush...a simple math class will suffice to ponder that one.

In essence it is bullying. It is you who are attempting to impose your definition of what must be conformed to. It is you who are unhappy with anyone who strays from your demands. It is you who engages in character assassination.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis but since I doubt you are licensed, you are providing professional services for free.


I think many here recognize the circumstances and are resigned to voting for Kerry. Perhaps, like me, they are more enthusiastic about building our party up from the ground in state and local races for the future, rather than rallying around Kerry in the present.

Funny, I've not witnessed a constructive post from you lately on this matter...only nattering name calling to those who can see the HARM of undermining the candidate...what progressive policies do you expect to be protected if Kerry is deafeated? What court decisions do you expect from a Supreme Court consisting of mainly GWB appointments?

And I don't think the bitter division on this site, notably between Dean and Clark supporters, stemming from the primaries, even enters into the Kerry scenario. Kerry was never popular among the progressive activist base.

That's fairly humorous. In the progressive meetings I have attended, there was NONE of the childish sophomoric venom I see here...I guess people are a bit more behaved and mature when their face and reputation is staked on what comes out of their mouth..and believe me..in the LABOR arena in California policy there are a great many progressives..all FULLY suppoting Kerry without the 3rd grade venom.

I think the best thing Kerry cheerleaders can do is stay low profile rather than risk alienating anymore progressives who are hanging on by a thread.

uh..yeah..right...this threat is OLD..take a look at your comment and the veiled threat behind it and see if maybe THIS IS part and parcel of why the parties look to the center for votes...look...don't hold on by a rail...don't vote for Kerry...it's your call..but THIS board is dedicated to OUSTING George Bush and welcomes progressive who will align with it...does that mean you must agree with me? NO...does it mean if you are going to be considered a constructive member if all you do is RAIL against Kerry and spread ad hominems and propaganda under the cover of holding your nose and voting for him? I don't know..ask admin.

[CWebster]

102. "OK let's examine this statement"

So, if I approached you with engaging terms:

snippy,tires,mutiny,childish,tiring,name-calling,smarmy,regressive,fantasyland,spreading propaganda, nattering name calling, childish, sophmoric venom, bit more behaved and mature, 3rd grade venom, veiled threat, ad hominems and propaganda...

You would be especially receptive?

I am not in the habit of whining to admin as some are known to do, but I do appreciate their efforts to inform and engage people in the political process. I especially appreciate their heads up about supporting the campaign of Ginny Schrader from my own district. And, I appreciate that they provide this forum for the progressive grassroots of the Democratic party who struggle to get their voices heard.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

103. For the record, I just searched every post you have on open threads

currently and haven't found a single one where you are building a ground up movement...nor have I found a single post where you are promoting some progressive candidate for a local race but for the Pennsylvania senate race and the thread Skinner started yesterday,..perhaps you should get busy so that your posts may reflact what you claim you are out to do...surely there are local races in your state where you can make a difference.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

92. Are you?

Why insult people? Don't you have anything more interesting to say?

[TeacherCreature]

95. Pot Kettle

:shrug:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seabiscuit]

74. Trippi turned out to be scum.

A pure hypocritical greedy slimebal sellout who ultimately undermined and destroyed Dean's campaign.

[CWebster]

75. This sounds like it is taken out of context. nt

[mandyky]

78. Howard Dean recently spoke about this article by Roger Simon

He called it a slanted hit piece.

I guess noone would read the article and bite over in Campaign 2004 so it had to be dragged over here.

[GreenArrow]

80. Makes sense to me

Dean found a role as a faux progressive, realized that it was a good schtick, and ran as far as he could with it.

[Larkspur]

82. Flamebait from Feanorcurufinwe

Why am I not surprised?

Trippi is jealous that Dean's supporters actually liked Dean, flaws and all. Trippi built the infrastructure, but people rallied to Dean's message and honest personality. Dean is a moderate and fiscal conservative, who passionately believes in social justice, and that is what most of Dean's supporters knew about Dean and why they supported him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

89. I don't know, why?

Why do you feel a need to make a personal comment?

Why?

Especially since you actually had something interesting to say. You were able to respond to the topic without flaming, yet you felt the need to insult me. So clear it is animosity towards me that fueled your personal comment, rather than the topic. Why? Why do you feel a need to make a personal comment?

[Larkspur]

101. Hey, just using the same tactics Kerry supporters use against

Dean supporters. If you can't take the heat, you know where to go.

[TeacherCreature]

85. same shit different day

People who don't agree to the Kerry history rewrite must be convinced at all cost. Lockstep rules must be enforced! "VOTING FOR KERRY IS NOT ENOUGH, WE DEMAND THAT YOU DENOUNCE DEAN AND WORSHIP KERRY OR GET LOST"!

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

90. I read the entire article in the magazine ... and Trippi, yes, is tripping

From my perspective, he was dissing Dean almost from the get-go, Trippi's ego was fanatically out of control. Trippi even refused to take phone calls from Howard Dean at times, he was so filled with his own importance.

I always thought that Trippi was Dean's Achilles heel. Now I'm convinced. Compare him to Whouley (sp?) who ran Kerry's Iowa campaign. Low key, professional, knew his target, knew what to do. He did it all right, and Trippi did it all wrong.

In Trippi's mind, he was going for all the glory, it was going to be all about Joe, Joe, Joe. He built up his aura as an Internet god and in my opinion he could have been so easily replaced, but Howard for some reason kept him on.

If anyone thinks the campaign manager isn't the fulcrum on which the campaign sinks or rises, ask yourself why it was so important that Kerry get Whouley. And, incidentally, Kerry gives him the credit he very much deserves.

I couldn't have cared less if the screen door had slammed Trippi in the a** on the way out. Howard Dean never failed his supporters. Trippi failed Dean. He never even researched Dean's prior comments on Iowa caucuses. After airing the Canadian show, Dean's ratings plummeted by 10 percent overnight. It's all about perception in the minds of the voters, and Trippi failed to convey an accurate perception of Dean. You're seeing the real Dean now. What's to argue about his character or his qualifications or his intelligence or integrity? Nothing. The man is sterling.

Howard Dean will always have my full support. Always. Kerry will have only enough of my support as is necessary to get bush out.

[Northwind]

93. It is amusing...

How the author responds to every post by working in the phrase "personal attack" or "personal statement". Are you hoping the mods search for those words to find posts to delete or something?

How weird is it that we have to tell someone whose candidate won to "get over it?"

[TeacherCreature]

97. Good point

I can't imagine why democrats are trying to drive off democrats.

[bemildred]

98. Trippi is a political hack covering his butt.

Dean's big mistake was Trippi.
He should get together with Susan Estrich and commiserate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

100. True..Trippi drained his coffers

but Dean's management team was also lacking as they were regional and had no national election experience.

[Moderator]

104. Locking

DU guidelines request members to maintain civil discussions with each other. Locking this thread.

Thanks for your consideration.
DU Mod