I'm beginning to hate the Democratic Party - need encouragement

[RubyDuby in GA]

Georgia just had a disastrous primary yesterday in which because we basically have no leadership whatsoever the rich guy and the lackluster do-nothing are going up in a runoff for the US Senate seat. It was a crowded field (8 candidates), but the best one to go up against the massive Republican hate machine in November didn't win.

Why the hell don't people research their candidates anymore?!?!?!?!
Would it have killed the 30% of the registered population that did bother to vote yesterday to actually do a bit of homework and vote for the one who could win???

Damn it. It felt like Iowa all over again. :cry:

[shraby]

1. Doesn't Georgia use

Diebold or some other electronic voting machines? Nuff said.

[bryant69]

2. I am sure it is depressing

But it's part of the electoral process that other people win sometimes.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[RubyDuby in GA]

5. I'd like to point out the obvious here

GA uses Diebold and is dead last in education.
I've fought the good fight for as long as I can.
I feel like there are 12 democrats left in the state and I can name them all.

It's a damn crying shame that Vermont is so cold or I'd be buying a house there tomorrow.

[NoPasaran]

42. I don't mean to brag

But I think Texas is dead last in education

[merh]

70. Are you sure about Texas. I'm pretty sure its Mississippi. (n/t)

[NoPasaran]

73. Well, I know we're dead last in something.

I think it's children with out health care. Yeee Haw!

[merh]

74. okay, maybe we are only 49th - but we damned low too

Our gov is a repuke who helped the weed that would be king get elected in your state. He is doing everything in our state that * did in yours. Ain't we the lucky ones :puke: .

[charlyvi]

76. Hell no, Honey

Alabama's got to be in there someplace.

[drdigi420]

50. It's different in Atlanta, but the rest of Georgia scares me

I try to stay inside I-285 when I can help it.

[Cocoa]

3. if Zell Miller was my senator

I'd feel the same way. :-(

[jpgray]

4. If there were good candidates in the field, why is the party the problem?

Did the leadership throw its weight utterly behind the wealthy guy?

[RubyDuby in GA]

7. "Party Leadership"

did not officially weigh in on this, but was vocally opposed to half of the candidates (behind the scenes).

God, I hear banjos....

[wyldwolf]

54. no they weren't

Where do you get this from?

Name names.

The party cannot support any one candidate during primaries.

[Dookus]

6. What was wrong with Iowa?

Iowa caucus voters DO research their candidates. They're among the most active, engaged voters in the country.

[RubyDuby in GA]

9. about Iowa

I was a Dean supporter, so the bottom fell out then too.

I officially have no reason to vote in November.
GA will go for Bush and Isakson.

[Dookus]

14. I see

since your candidate didn't win, the whole system is flawed. :eyes:

[against all enemies]

28. Even people in Repuke states like yours should vote and Democratic.

You might surprise yourself and win.
You might elect some Dem to local elections.
And at the end of the night we want Bush to lose by MILLIONS nationwide.
Every Kerry vote is a Fuck You to Bush. You'll feel better

[Octafish]

75. Thassh thuh spurit.

[TeacherCreature]

23. same thing that is wrong in any state with open primaries

Republicans get to choose the candidate they want to run against.

[Dookus]

30. So you believe

that large numbers of Republicans showed up at the Iowa caucuses and voted for Kerry?

Do you have any evidence for that?

[TeacherCreature]

41. Yes based on the evidence

:hi:

Like I said to blm, we are all voting for Kerry. That should be enough for you.

[sangh0]

43. Q: "Do you have evidence?"....A: "Yes, it's based on the evidence"

So the evidence you have for your claim is based on the evidence you have for your claim.

That should be enough for you

[Dookus]

66. well that convinces me!

lol

[emulatorloo]

69. Good, vote for Kerry! Too Bad, no repugs at my caucus.

Iowa caucus not open to repugs. At my caucus, all were badly dressed with ratty haircuts. No repug in site.

[Cleita]

8. I felt the same way when Arnold won the recall election.

It turns out that 35% of registered Democrats in my county had not bothered to vote. However, if there was election tampering, this could explain a lot. We do use electronic scan machines.

I do know that the Democrats in our county are mobilizing to reach all the Democrats and encourage them to vote. Maybe that's what you need to do.

I myself will be doing precinct walking in the months leading up to the election talking to the Democrats in each neighborhood to impress them with the importance of voting.

[wildeyed]

67. I do GOTV, too.

I live in a red state (NC) but we have more registered dems than pubs. Jeez, the pubs just walk all over us sometimes. I figure if I can get out there and just get dem folks to VOTE, then we can actually win. Also, positive action helps me deal with my anxiety over how the country is going. If I sit home, I just worry too much.

[blm]

10. So you are certain that Kerry is going to lose?

Kerry isn't qualified to be the Democratic nominee to you? Interesting view. What do you base it on?

[RubyDuby in GA]

11. What about Kerry?

In Georgia, I am 100% certain that the vote will go for Bush.
1. We use Diebold machines. 2. The majority of the state doesn't vote. 3. Those who do vote are mostly Republican. It's been 10 years since GA went for a Democratic presidential candidate and Clinton barely squeaked by then.

Got nothing against Kerry (although he wasn't my first or even second choice). I'm hosting a house party for him next week. Wanna come?

[blm]

25. You are the one who said it was like Iowa all over again.

So that would reasonably mean that in your opinion those who did vote in Iowa who made Kerry the winner were uninformed and that he was the lesser candidate by YOUR research.

[TeacherCreature]

27. Between the sheep and the republicans I'd say that is about right

Now Kerry is the candidate. That doesn't change what happened in Iowa.

[blm]

33. Noone can take away from Kerry his months of HARD WORK and

his astounding resume.

Maybe the people of Iowa were HAPPY to vote for the lawmaker who investigated and exposed more government corruption than ANY lawmaker in modern history. Or they were well aware that Kerry's efforts helped to END three wars.

Guess it would never occur to you that the people who voted for Kerry WERE the better researched voters. The people who understood that Kerry's steadfastness and thoroughness is what it would take to defeat Bush in November.They were also people who cast their votes with the veterans and firefighters of Iowa instead of following the script plotted by "The Perfect Storm" troopers.

Sorry all those nonbandwagonjumping people hurt your feelings, but do you really think it's smart and fair to denigrate Kerry voters as sheep?

[TeacherCreature]

39. We all know what happened

Don't worry, everyone is focused on getting rid of bush. That doesn't mean we are going to drink the Flavor-aid.

[sangh0]

44. Not everyone knows

You don't seem to know and you don't seem to have any evidence for the things you think you know but are wrong about

[blm]

58. Sorry...imo, SOME have just convinced yourselves that the only way

failure was possible was by deceit. Couldn't possibly have been that some other candidate was preferred, more qualified, more strategic, more focused, more detail oriented, more determined, and more resilient in the clutch?

[emulatorloo]

71. I would like to come to your house party . . . but I am too far away

Hope it is a great success!!!!!!!! HAVE FUN>

Sorry about your disappointment today.

[Still_Loves_John]

13. She's just saying that

in Georgia, she has no reason to vote because the state is so red.

And to the original poster: The Democratic party of Georgia probably isn't the best barometer for judging the party as a whole. You just aren't going to get any strong candidates running in hopeless races. I don't understand what you meant about Iowa though. I mean, I can understand being upset that your guy lost, but that's no reason to hate the Democratic party.

[sangh0]

24. Being in a red state is the BEST REASON to vote Dem

Wha's the point in voting for a sure winner? It might make you feel good, but does it really make a difference.

Help change a red state to a blue one and that's real change

[Still_Loves_John]

29. Well voting for a sure winner isn't really great either

Your vote counts for less in a solidly blue state too. I was saying that in a red state, as opposed to a battleground, your vote has very little significance.

[porphyrian]

12. Hate the DLC, Not The Party

They are the ones that keep steering us into defeat by pandering to corporate interests and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with their attempt to make the new Democrat party into the old Republican one.

[wyldwolf]

17. how have they kept steering us to defeat?

[porphyrian]

19. Do the years 2000 and 2002 mean anything to you? - n/t

[wyldwolf]

20. not in reference to the DLC... maybe some stats or something to confirm?

[sangh0]

22. The Dems won the election in 2000

The only thing Bush* won was a court case, and it was fixed

[wyldwolf]

26. I keep seeing this charge made but no one shows it to be so.

Why is that?

I might be prone to believe it if one person would step up and prove with evidence that Dems were rejected by the American people because of the DLC.

But nothing yet.

[RubyDuby in GA]

32. 2002 - nothing concrete, just theory

Terry McAuliffe and his inaction in 2000 to 2002 cost democratic seats in both houses. And his primary stacking in this season didn't do anything to win him friends. By mid-February, it was all over but the shouting. Half the country still hadn't voted in their primaries yet.

[wyldwolf]

34. Exactly, just theory. But most theories have some circumstantial evidence

Terry McAuliffe and his inaction in 2000 to 2002 cost democratic seats in both houses.

Anything resembling proof of this? And what does this have to to with the DLC?

And his primary stacking in this season didn't do anything to win him friends. By mid-February, it was all over but the shouting. Half the country still hadn't voted in their primaries yet.

You know as well as I do that this was designed to get us a nominee sooner. Every candidate running had a shot - some more than others.

But what does this have to to with the DLC?

[sangh0]

35. Not a theory. Theories are supported with evidence

We have yet to see any evidence to support the claim that the Dems losing the election in 2000 was the DLC's fault. Maybe that's because the Dems WON the 2000 election.

Or do you really want Bu$h for four more years?

That's not a theory. It's an assertion, and an unsupported one at that.

And his primary stacking in this season didn't do anything to win him friends.

Another unsupported assertion.

By mid-February, it was all over but the shouting. Half the country still hadn't voted in their primaries yet.

Incredible! Four sentences and not one piece of evidence supporting the idea that the DLC caused the Dems loss in 2000.

[RubyDuby in GA]

40. Scroll back up

I said nothing about the DLC. I don't give a rat's ass about the DLC. Some of our state's better leaders are part of it, Thurbert Baker, Cathy Cox, Shirley Franklin - but that's just my opinion, assertion, theory, hypothesis, conjecture.....

And if the two of you want to discuss this any further, feel free to PM me. I'm more than happy to go on ad nauseam about the current state of politics in Georgia and the United States.

[sangh0]

46. self -delete

dupe

[sangh0]

47. self-delete

supe

[sangh0]

48. I scrolled up. It's about the DLC

You didn't say anything about the DLC< but the poster whose post started this part of the thread most certainly did blame the DLC, and has yet to provide any evidence to support that claim.


And, for the record, I don't blame you for being discouraged. Georgia is not a good place for Dems right now. However, on the bright side is the fact that you can help change that.

[wyldwolf]

51. But that is what we were talking about

In sequence, posts 12, 17, 19, 20, 22, 26, 32, 34, 35.


It's about the DLC

[kiahzero]

62. Stolen and ridiculously outspent, respectively (n/t)

[ulysses]

15. the state party seems a little lacking in new ideas, yes

(to put it mildly). Don't hate - reform. If they won't stand up, then let's organize and build some solid ground where they can at least sit without sinking further. :)

[wyldwolf]

16. the rich guy and the lackluster do-nothing?

FACT: It takes money to run an election. Try it and see.

..and who are you calling a "do-nothing" and to what do you base that on?

[RubyDuby in GA]

31. Denise Majette

During her two year tenure in the House of Representatives, she has co-sponsored exactly one bill. That's when she wasn't off on junkets being paid for by foreign interests that wanted favors or when she wasn't busy taking money from defense contractors making a fortune in Iraq. I live right outside her district, but have numerous friends and relatives in the 4th. They seem to feel that she is, and this is a direct quote, "absolutely worthless."

I am more than aware that it takes money to run an election.
I make no bones about it. I was supporting Mary Squires, a 10 year military veteran that has been sitting in a Republican seat for 6 years in the GA House and Senate. She knows how to run against them and win. Unfortunately, she just didn't get the money. Cliff Oxford's background, whether the accusations are true or not, is a huge liability. Denise Majette has very questionable things in her past that, given the way the republicans like to play down here, will be making their way to the light of day if she wins the runoff.

And as far as the GA Dem Party goes, what party? It is in a shambles and if you disagree with that I want to know what kind of drugs you are on because I want some too.

Yes, I saw earlier that you "won" your race. Good for you.
But in yesterday's field of 8 people, the one most qualified did not come out on top and I'm using the standards of experience and platform, not who seems most electable.

[wyldwolf]

36. More theories?

During her two year tenure in the House of Representatives, she has co-sponsored exactly one bill.

You haven't done your homework:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/R?d108:FLD004:@1(Rep+Majette+Denise):

That's when she wasn't off on junkets being paid for by foreign interests

So does this disqualify one from being a good representative? Tell me who you feel is good and we'll examine his/her record in this respect.

I live right outside her district, but have numerous friends and relatives in the 4th. They seem to feel that she is, and this is a direct quote, "absolutely worthless."

I have friends and family in her district who feel the opposite. Your point?

And as far as the GA Dem Party goes, what party? It is in a shambles and if you disagree with that I want to know what kind of drugs you are on because I want some too.

This is true but I don't moan and bitch about it - I work to change it.

in yesterday's field of 8 people, the one most qualified did not come out on top and I'm using the standards of experience and platform,

Demonstrate this please.

[sangh0]

38. Some people think that their opinions

are so great they have single-handedly promoted them to "theory"

[RubyDuby in GA]

53. And some people

think that they are entitled to have the only say. Didn't mean to step on your little clique's toes. I'm tempted to tell you both to go Cheney yourselves, but instead we can agree to disagree.

I think the people of this state (that bothered) made disastrous choices yesterday. That is my assertion.

And as for the both of you working to change the party, if that's the case, then I'm sure I've met you both because I've been working tirelessly for years now to move this state forward. See you at the next party meeting or the next meetup or the next rally.

And yes, I am upset with yesterday's outcome. Fine. I'm allowed to be upset because I have worked everyday for nearly a year for the candidate I was supporting (not because I was paid to because I wasn't, but because I believed in her). Naive idealism..... don't worry. You've killed that.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RubyDuby in GA]

57. Whoa

You're right.
I should have taken my own advice.
Best of luck in November.

And like I said, feel free to PM me. I'm sure you and I both know quite a bit about what goes on behind the scenes in this here little ol' state and we can have some rollicking good debates.

And you're still welcome to come to my Kerry house party next week.

[wyldwolf]

59. my team is going to win in November

my team is the Democratic party, not individual candidates I might be enamored with.

And when I "debate" I'm prepared with facts and figures.

[RubyDuby in GA]

60. Ok

I was trying to be nice and end this, but now you two can really go fuck yourselves. Any time you're ready, I'll have your facts.

[wyldwolf]

61. I'm ready now

Back up your assertions in the above thread with facts.

Start with: Terry McAuliffe and his inaction in 2000 to 2002 cost democratic seats in both houses. And his primary stacking in this season didn't do anything to win him friends.

and..

During her (Majette's) two year tenure in the House of Representatives, she has co-sponsored exactly one bill.

[RubyDuby in GA]

63. Which one would that be?

And I'm leaving for the day.
I only DU at work (can't get asshold boyfriend off the computer long enough for me to get on and haven't been home before 10pm in I don't know how long).

[wyldwolf]

64. re-read post 61 and trade in asshole boyfriend for a more modern model

[RubyDuby in GA]

65. Will do

And boyfriend is must be out by Sept 15 - good advice though.
Till tomorrow.

Good night.

[sangh0]

56. Say what you want, but be prepared to back it up with some evidence

and if you can't, expect to be criticized for that.

I'm tempted to tell you both to go Cheney yourselves, but instead we can agree to disagree.

Very subtle. You really fooled me into thinking you didn't tell me to go fuck myself, which is typical coming from people who can't cite facts to back up their argument. It's EXACTLY what Cheney did when he encountered someone who didn't take his crap and could back themselves up.

And yes, I am upset with yesterday's outcome. Fine. I'm allowed to be upset because I have worked everyday for nearly a year for the candidate I was supporting

You are allowed to be upset. And you are allowed to state whatever you think. Bu you are not entitled to immunity from criticism, and if you make assertions without being able to support them, you should expect criticism.

Naive idealism..... don't worry. You've killed that.

Good! There's nothing wrong with idealism, but IMO, there's nothing great about naivete.

[OKNancy]

52. I don't know about that but

her voting record is 100% liberal. I think lots of Dems were pleasantly surprised with her votes.

Edit to add:

Bishop, S. D + + + + - - + + + + + + + + - + + - - + 75%
12 Burns, M. R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
8 Collins, M. R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
10 Deal R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
11 Gingrey R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
6 Isakson R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
1 Kingston R - - - - - - - - - - + - - + - - - - - - 10%
5 Lewis, John D + + + + - + + + + + ? + + + + + + + + + 90%
7 Linder R - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - 5%
4 Majette D + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 100%
3 Marshall D - + + + - - + + + + + - + + + + + ? + - 70%
9 Norwood R - - - - - - - + - - ? - - - - - - - - + 10%
13 Scott, D. D + + + + - + + + + + + + + - + + + - - - 75%


http://www.adaction.org/2003housevr.htm
Americans for Deomcratic Action

ADA is America's oldest independent liberal lobbying organization. In the spirit of the New Deal and ADA founders Eleanor Roosevelt, renowned economist John Kenneth Galbraith, and former Senator and Vice President Hubert Humphrey we lobby through coalition partnerships, through direct advocacy, and through the media
http://www.adaction.org/about.htm

[misanthrope]

18. Doesn't Georgia have open primaries...

...and a track record of Republicans crossing over to line up the weakest opposition possible for the general election?

I think that's your answer.

Also, you need to make sure you vote for Kerry this fall. Like yourself, I don't care much for him but I want the discrepancy between the popular vote and the final results to be even larger this time. I want the banana republic reality of America to scream across the globe. I'm tired of the lies and mythology.

[doctorbombeigh]

21. Nevermind GA - think DC - and the big adios to *

That'll cheer ya right the cheney up.

[jukes]

37. it is shameful

but we must keep trying.

i don't believe we can win in november, but to give up lets them win by default.

let's force them to cheat again, & keep fighting after they do.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

45. I went through a similar thing in California in 1994 with our state

legislature. It was the first time Repubs were able to take over...hang in there...it's cyclical..things will swing back your way of you keep pushing...the best thing you can do in a state where you are so defeated is keep pushing..it will swing back...and you'll be riding on the top of a cloud when it does knowing you used the elbow grease...the harder things get for people in solidly Repub states...the harder the repubs mismanagement and corruption will swing back on them....even Mao said you can't preach religion to a hungry person.

[democratreformed]

49. In other words...

the same "good old boy" mentality is at work at the state and local level too. Yes, I've seen it here in my state too. One Dem challenger was chastised for daring to challenge the great Blanche Lincoln.

[wildeyed]

68. If it makes you feel any better,

the pubs likely cratered themselves in the governor's primary here in NC. Lots of candidates and now there will be a run off in a month between the two most popular. A month they will be spending money and energy on battling each other rather than the dem candidate. So that kind of thing can work for you and against you.

[Amarant]

72. I have a feeling

a lot of republicans decide it would be fun to become democrats when we have our primary. No doubt this explains lieberman doing as well as he did in some states.

Republicans have organized and infiltrated dem primaries before.