Has Shrub damaged any of your friendships?

[u2spirit]

I am on the verge of losing a good friend due to our constant arguing about the war. It's making me sick at my stomach when I realize this war has polarized this country more than anything in my lifetime. I feel like no one is going to change anybody's mind and we're already to the point of yelling over each other. Before dimson came into being, my friends and I biggest arguments would be about sports or some other nonsense. Does anyone else have similar stories or feelings?

[LittleApple81]

1. Yes. I just have removed myself from two of my friends...Because

the war and Bush are non-touchable subjects.

[bryant69]

2. Yeah I've lost a friend over it

And had some heated arguments with others over it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[dennis4868]

3. Yep...

my wife and I no longer speak to a friend of ours because of the Iraq war issue...our (former) friend is totally brainwashed about Bush...it is really sad...he gets his news from MSNBC and FOX and believes every word they tell him...we were arguing with him so much that it ruined our friendship....he is voting for Bush and lives in NY...my wife and I tell him that his vote is worthless because he is voting in NY and Kerry will win NY easily!

[RoyGBiv]

4. Yes n/t

[JayS]

5. He trampled the flowers in my new flower bed. :) A friendship...

...is too valuable to lose over a temporary dictator. Agree to disagree and blow the topic off.

[u2spirit]

8. That's what I just told him

He e-mailed me a french bashing poem this morning. Monday, tuesday and wednesday were anti- Kerry chain e-mails. Then when I reply to them, he accuses me of having too much time on my hands and calls me unamerican. That's just this week. I'm hoping he takes me up on my trouce offer.

[JayS]

26. trouce? Did you mean to type trounce or truce? :) Good luck...

...on attaining a detente. Ooops...detente is a French word. :)

[wildeyed]

28. He is trying to provoke you

and then accusing you of being unamerican? This does not sound like the actions of a friend.

I have my differences with several friends and family members, but thankfully we have managed to keep it civil. I do not forward emails to them if I know they will be unappreciated. Simple matter of respect.

The last few months I have seen a thaw in the political impasse with several friends who voted Bush last election. They came to me and said they are disturbed by Bush and wanted to know more about Kerry and Bowles (NC dem senate candidate). I did not jump up and down and yell "I told you so!", but I did give them much positive info about the dem candidates. :)

[schultzee]

42. Send him anti-grub email. They use slogans not facts. I am beginning

to believe that these people who are supporting *****(( are not our friends because they are going to vote against DEMOCRCY and for FASCISM. They are like the Nazis and we are the Jews just watching it happen.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Just wondering

what kind of friend would insult a friend and call him "unamerican". What kind of friends go out of their way to send things that attack their friends personal beliefs? It sounds like there is quite alot of hostility in this "friendship".

If I were in that position, I would politely ask the friend to leave politics out of the friendship. If the friend wouldn't agree, then I would end the friendship, and not consider it a loss.

[Doctor_J]

6. yes, and unfortunately

most of my relatives are repugs, so it's been a rather lonely couple of years.

[Tight_rope]

66. Stay strong...one day they will see the light. and come crawling back!

[havocmom]

7. Yeah, a 20 year old friend died in Iraq

I think that qualifies.

[arwalden]

13. I'm Sorry.

I don't know what else to say.

-- Allen

[havocmom]

22. Thanks, Allen

I knew a lot of people would be grieving soon when the build up for war started. I remember all the empty chairs during Vietnam conflict. It just galls me how surprised and hurt people around here where when this kid was killed. Makes me so furious at their blind support for bush* before it happened and all the nasty remarks bush supporters made to/about those of us who tried to stop this country from invading Iraq.

Makes me furious that my neighbors didn't mind the war while it was some other towns' kids coming home in boxes. Now that they had to bury one of their own, they get a clue.

So I lost a pal who was one of the few to just accept me in this little town, I have neighbors who can't look me in the eye because they were wrong and can't accept that.

Thanks for letting me vent. It really pisses me off how damned shortsighted people can be.

And I really hate what the neocons have done to my country. There has been a major dismantling of what was good about America going on since 1980. The real reason they hated Clinton is he had the right stuff to derail their run away train for a few years.

Too many people dead. Too many in despair. The world in the balance and we distract the national dialog with BS about threats to marriage. It just makes me wanna crawl off into a cave.

[PopSixSquish]

49. I'm So Sorry

I have friends in Iraq myself. Every day I wait for word and pray it never comes.

Peace be with you.

[mark414]

58. i'm with you there

i am by no means a religious man, but i "pray" every single day for my friends over there, and i'll know includes yours in my hopes. i grew up in a small, pretty repug town in wisconsin, and i'm only 19, so i know quite a few people over there...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. My oldest daughter is pretty serious about a 19 yr old Marine who...

...may be going to Iraq during the first week of August. His twin brother should be returning from there in September.

I've told my daughter to be prepared to deal with a changed person when her boyfriend gets back.

This is nasty business, and we had no reason to be there at all.

[havocmom]

78. Wise to perpare her for the facts of war

If they make it home, they are not the same as they were. And sometimes it takes a long, long time to get to the root of the pain.

I wish your daughter, her beau and his brother all the best. There was a war going on when I was that age and some I know are still having nightmares.

Peace to us all.

[dennis4868]

9. I forgot to mention....

my wife has a friend who was in Iraq and is back home but no longer has a right leg...he is totally emotional disturbed and we feel we have lost him as a friend...he takes no calls and is angry at everyone for the mess he is now in.

[tnlefty]

10. Hi u2spirit!

The damage began during the (s)election process and it wasn't just friends, but also family members. Yes, it has gotten worse and people that I used to talk to I haven't talked to during the Bush* years and that's ok with me. Tensions with family members is much higher and though I've been much kinder than they were during the Clinton years, etc., I'm tired of listening to their hateful drivel and have become much more vocal in laying out the facts and fighting with them. I'm in a neighborhood full of brain dead repugs some of whom take delight in putting some of the rwing spam e-mail drivel in my mailbox and I'm getting kinda tired of that, too.

I'd say that the nation is pretty divided.

Welcome to DU and I'm sorry about your friend(s). :hi:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

11. The only thing my "friend" sent me was Tony Blair's essay on Iraq.

He still insists that Clinton was offered Bin Laden three times.
He's afraid of gay marriage "let them have the same rights, but preserve the sanctity of marriage for heterosexuals." (In other words, don't call it "gay marriage". I still don't understand his logic.)
He thinks that all the tax breaks he got from *'s reckless tax cuts are a good thing but the levy against his property tax (to make up the slack the federal government cut back on) is just "stupid tax and spend liberals".
He thinks that 9/11 is all Clinton's fault.
He just told me a month ago he became a "born-again christain". (Yet he still loves porn and talks about it whenever the subject comes up)

Every time we're together since I moved out of his house, he's tried to get my goat. I don't debate well with idiots who use falsehoods as "facts" (even when they know what they're saying is utter crap), I get angry. When I came up to move everything out of his house, he told my friend who was helping us that he loves, absolutely loves to say something he knows that will make me pissed off at him.

So, no. Shrub hasn't damaged my friendship. He's destroyed it.
And I feel fine about it. I've known this person for nearly 13 years, and as the years progress and the reich-wing drives that wedge deeper into this country, he's gone farther and farther off the deep end.

Any "friend" who deliberately pisses you off just to see you mad is no friend at all.

[calico1]

12. Yes, for the most part.

And this is a friend from childhood that I considered a lifelong friend. We have known eachother since second grade and we are now 46. I often wonder why. We grew up in similar circumstances, went to the same school, had many of the same interests. Somewhere along the line she became more and more Conservative, while I have become more and more Liberal during the same time span. Ironically, I have led a more "Conservative" life than her. No drugs, no wild partying in college, a handful of serious relationships. Good money manager and saver. She on the other hand got kicked out of college for having too low grades, slept around a lot which shocked me when she told me that, snorted cocaine and drank. She is married to her second husband now. She has a son from her first marriage and 3 sons from her second. They can't afford a home yet. She stays at home with the kids. So I guess in that sense she is more "traditional" since I work, am not married though I have been with the same man for almost 10 years and am engaged, and I don't have children (not the 2 legged kind, anyway). I miss our friendship but discussing politics with her is like entering the Twilight Zone. There is just no way to have a conversation on the subject and she is always the one to bring it up.

[Doctor_J]

56. I have a similar story

My wife (25 years) and I live a pretty "conservative" life as well - save our money, barely drink, don't use drugs, and our two beautiful teenage daughters live much the same way. If it weren't for the fact that they're ardent feminists, they would look right at home in the college republicans meeting.

Meanwhile, many of our GOP acquaintenances have been riddled by alot of the same afflictions as Newt, *, Limpballs, Bennett, Scraborough, and the rest of the character police.

I don't like going to family things any more. That's why we're planning to emigrate ASAP.

[piece sine]

14. Yes...I've lost several good friends

I've been denouncd as a traitor, not so much for my distain of Bush, but for -- get this -- my support of MICHAEL MOORE!! I've never ever seen our country so split.

[Mike Daniels]

15. Nope

but me and my friends and relatives can disagree with each other and not let something as petty as politics destroy all of the other things we have common beliefs on.

[saracat]

23. Wow! Politics is petty?

People are senselessly dying because of those politics and families are being destroyed financially by these politics and you call them "petty"? I think people who think it is okay to "go along to get along" with their relatives and friends regardless of the consequences to society are "petty" and self absorbed.

[Abbalon]

16. Yes, family n/t

[lukasahero]

17. I think I have

We're separated by distance and have kept in touch via email. The last time I wrote her was at the start of the war and I said something disparaging about it (and possibly, knowing me, against Bush). I haven't heard from her since even when I sent an email telling her about my impending wedding. She had been my best friend for about 30 years. :(

Edited to add: Oh and my relationship with my mother will never be the same if Bush is (re-)elected, institutes a draft and my nephews are sent to war. Heck, my relationship with my mother will never be the same anyway after she called Gore a coward.

[leftofthedial]

18. many

no loss. if they are fascist thugs, I don't want them in my life, unless I'm a witness for the prosecution.

[insidious]

19. Yes

I ended a three year relationship due to my ex girlfriend's right wing family. Her father, a republican blowhard, made the mistake of telling me that Susan Sarandon should be deported for her views and that it was fine for Prescott Bush to do business with the Nazis while my grandfather took bullets and shrapnel in Europe during WWII. He walked on eggshells for a while before I realized it was only going to end in violence (and an extended hospitalization for him) so I just dumped her. I'm much happier in my current relationship so that piece of shit ended up doing me a favor.

[mark414]

59. i would've

slugged that guy in the fucking face, for my grandfather and yours.

if he thinks that what prescott did was ok then maybe he wouldn't have a problem with me putting the nazi bullet they pulled out of my grandpa right between his fucking eyes.

[Tight_rope]

67. Welcome to DU insidious!

[readmylips]

20. Yes, Hub and Son....

Hub and I cannot discuss anything about the elections. He's for bush and 300% for Kerry. He's a mind-mannered man, boy does he fly off the handle and gets personal with his attacks. He knows he's wrong and apoligizes later but will not support Kerry. He doesn't vote anyway. Heck with him. My son has turned into a radical, crazy pig. He sounds more like rush limpballs than limpballs himself.

[TX-RAT]

21. No way

I wouldn't allow it.

[Tsiyu]

24. Actually

I lost two after 9/11, after one sent me an e-mail ( same modus- when I responded I was accused of being touchy "I only sent it because i thought you'd be interested.") and after the other got mad because i even brought up the topic of going back into the liberal talk host business. I was complaining about no balance on the Radio and that offended her to no end.

Now we are friends again. With the first, we just try not to talk about politics. i am not so good at this, but she is good about changing the subject. The other gal has had some bad Karma lately. We CANNOT discuss politics, but I think she's wondering about her own life and is ready to change some things - hopefully her politics will be one of them.

[arwalden]

25. Friends, no. -- Family, yes.

It would be difficult to lose friends over political disagreements since I'm very selective about the people I keep company with. As far as people I merely associate with, or with whom I'm a casual acquaintance... I avoid such topics whenever I'm forced to be around them... otherwise I simply avoid those people completely.

With my conservative family members... it's put a BIG strain on things. They just CAN'T stop talking about it. --- Actually it would be more accurate to say that they WON'T make an effort to NOT talk about religion and politics when they know IN ADVANCE that it will cause an argument.

I can make an effort NOT to bring up touchy subjects, it's not that hard. WHY CAN'T THEY?? --- I'm not going to convert them, they aren't going to convert me.

So what's the point in CONSTANTLY bringing it up? What's the point in mentioning George W. Bush when saying grace before a meal? (At least I can sit there in silence while they observe their pre-meal custom... even if it includes Bush. But I strongly suspect that they do it to annoy me. I doubt Bush is mentioned during grace whenever I'm not around.)

If it weren't so annoying, their obvious efforts are almost comical. Whenever one of them mentions something that's pro-Bush, or anti-Kerry or anti-Clinton... they'll toss out the verbal bait, then immediately glance over to me to see if it gets a reaction.

Sometimes I'll ignore it by pretend to be involved in another conversation that their words are mere indistinguishable background noise. --- During those times, the bait (which was CLEARLY intended ONLY for me and not as a conversation starter among themselves) will be reeled back in and tossed out into the conversation pond again... only a little louder.

Honestly, it can be comical.

-- Allen

P.S. A 2nd-cousin of mine just returned from three (THREE!!!!) tours of duty in Afghanistan. Safe and sound. (But looking much OLDER than when he left... and not smiling as much as before... he's changed a lot.)

[tnlefty]

36. Boy does this ever seem familiar!!! THEY bring shit up and then wonder

why the family gatherings turn to shit! THEY ignore the first 'are you sure you wanna go there' and then seem stunned when the bleeding hearts fight back and they get all testy, start yelling, name calling, etc. I actually dread holidays, birthdays, etc.

[vetwife]

82. No virtual friends left...cyberfriends and hardly any family..

We are split and it is irreparable as far as I am concerned. More than that..he hijacked my faith and has damaged my church...We who have faith have really gotten a raw deal ! All my family who believes as my husband and me are struggling and all under one roof. The bigger activist you are I believe in this red state, the more friends you lose. and Family. You are an embarrasement for taking it to the streets as I did with my Cd and talk show appearances and letter writing. You see.I am the enemy now. I don't walk in lockstep with the State of Georgia or at least the majority along with some of us other Du folks here from the South.I have become a traitor and unpatriotic and Ihave done more for vets than those jerks could in a lifetime. Price you pay for principle.
I feel I am in good company.

[havocmom]

27. Couple days after 9-11-01, me brother called and asked if I was glad

'the grownups were in charge at a serious time like this.' I told him they weren't grownups, they were recycled felons from a previous failed administration and we were in a lot of trouble because of them. Also suggested that we had best not talk politics for a few years or I would slice, dice and have him in tears like I did in 1970.

I did go see him when he had bypass surgery last fall. But we have to tread very carefully and can't really discuss anything of substance. I am sad that he is such a bitter, lonely man. I am furious that he let it happen to himself because of his mind set and his reliance on only wingnut blowhards for his 'news'. He is really not stupid but allows himself to be ignorant; he is bullheaded about defending his insistence on remaining ignorant. That really hurts.

On the other side, things are so bad in the country now that people who used to write me off as some sort of radical nutcase are now agreeing that bush* & junta are a clear threat to America and the world. I can talk to more friends about political issues now instead of just holding my tongue to keep the peace with old friends. I am no longer seen by all as the woman in the tin foil bonnet.

[LordActon]

32. The regime's Divide and Conquer strategy

I've had some heated debates lately w/ my brother who's been hypnotized by Limbaugh and has turned into a rabid liberal hater. We still talk but I avoid discussing politics at all cost. My parents-inlaw are right-wing repugs as well. They bought a house in Florida recently and are so excited that they can vote there now. I swear they did it just for that reason. They try to engage my wife and I in discussion about how great Bush is but usualy we just nod and smile politely and change the topic at the soonest convenience. There's no use arguing with them, they are thoroughly brainwashed and view anyone who doesn't agree with Bush as a traitor. I typically keep my political beliefs very quiet. You never know when your friends, neighbors, employer or family will turn your name into Ashcroft as an enemy combatant.

[Atman]

29. Yes...the entire rest of the world

used to be my "friend." Now I'm afraid to travel. My passport will likely never see a stamp. But at least I have one...unlike Bush did before HE go selected!

[AndyTiedye]

30. Yes

This guy really should know better, too, but he seems to have been
watching too much fauxnews and it has affected his critical facilities.
It is a very sad and terrifying thing to see.

[nomatrix]

31. Welcome to DU, u2spirit

I expect this thread will fill up fast.

Yes I have, and that was their choice. When a candidate assembles a war cabinet during peace, they are preparing, ultimately to use military action. Period.
Before the election, I knew they hated Clinton, funny they didn't think much of Bush I. Ask your friends that.

I asked, if Bush started a war, like Vietnam, and it will send your grandchildren to fight it, would you still want him in office? "Yes." "Think about it, and respond later," I said.

"Yes" was still the answer. I knew then, there was nothing I would ever enjoy sharing because it would always be tainted with their willingness to sacrifice their own children in this way. We set the parameters on the war scenario, this was police action with gorilla fighting, causing a draft (which is coming), that would send us, as a nation, into a country we did not belong. BTW, if Clinton did that, they'd want him removed.
In almost any other area, they had pretty good judgment.

You may be able to get past this, but had I trusted these people for years. They knew their answer would cost our friendship. I respect that they were truthful. You know it was more about their hatred of Clinton than really knowing Bush would be a good president.

I would like to express my sadness to all who have lost family & friends during the Bush rule.
God help us all.
You've see the nuclear missile shield. Who's got missiles pointed at us now?

[LoZoccolo]

33. Yes. I hang out on a local chatroom...

...and now I don't go to "real-life" gatherings people plan because I don't want stuff getting interrupted with arguments about politics.

[RobinA]

34. Nah...

ever since an arguement with an age-old friend on New Year's Eve 2002 about the presence or non-presence of WMD in Iraq, she has been strangely silent on the Bush issue and I have been smugly silent.

[joefree1]

35. Family and friends

One friend from high school wrote me to say I should support the troops by not criticizing Bush. I wrote back that my ancestors have fought and died in every f**king war this country has had just so I could speak freely. Soon after I knocked down her repuke chain e-mail by sending an expose from snopes.com. Haven't heard from her since.

Religious relatives now tread carefully around me since they found my left wing web site. Same with some repuke co-workers who learned the hard way that liberal does not mean wimp.

On the plus side it's become a stampede of friends and family now joining our chorus of anti-Bush and pro-America cheer.

The right wingnuts are looking a little freaked out these days. Bring it on!

[trekbiker]

37. almost...

My brother and his wife are having problems because of Bush and his trashing of our country. And a couple of my friendships have been strained. One in particular I will no longer meet up with for beers until after the election. He's a dittohead and believes all the crap coming out of FoxNews. It's pointless to even attempt to debate a Bush Brownshirt like that. I finally started forcing him to put his money where his mouth is. Every time he spewed out some outrageous piece of BS I would write it down and say, "OK, 50 bucks says you're wrong". He would of course go for it. This has been happening for the last two years and he owes me $750 which, being the morally bankrupt Bushie that he is, he'll never pay up.. I think the mountain of lies is getting so high that the Bushies are just becoming overwhelmed trying to stick to their missguided beliefs and talking points and they are becoming VERY quick to anger. The whole situation in the country is very volatile right now. I no longer make bets with my "friend"... whats the point? maybe we need a civil war to shake this out.

[UdoKier]

38. No. I cannot be friends with ignorant or amoral people.

And all Bushies fit into one of those categories. I can have them as acquaintances, not as friends. The entire rightwing mindset and worldview is offensive to me.

[Carson]

39. Nope

I haven't lost a single true friend. The people I count as friends, not simply acquaintences, co-workers etc, who are political opposites of mine, realize that our friendship is more important than either of us being right. We've had some politically charged discussions but once we realized we were at an impasse, wisely chose to go no further. I don't engage them further, nor do they me. I don't view my right-wing friends as enemies, just misguided fellow Americans.

The ass in the White House will be gone in a few short months; he's not worth my losing friends.

[TeeYiYi]

40. Yes. Brother-in-law just told me to move to Canada. ;-) ...n/t

TYY

[goddess40]

43. Fair weather friends

This is Goddess40's mom. My sister and I barely speak any more. When we do we have to keep it completely neutral. I spend very little time with her as it is just too uncomfortable. Unfortunately the sister I agreed with politically died last fall and do I miss her. I am on the verge of losing a friend who has been sending me right wing emails. The last one was too much so I emailed her back and corrected all the errors in the email. Haven't heard from her since. Both my sister and this friend like to hit out with their comments and then say something like, "We'd better not talk politics." I no longer let them get away with this and give them my take on the issues. Boy, then they think they are being persecuted.

[TeeYiYi]

52. First of all . . .

. . . I'm sorry for your loss.:hug:

Second --->> You go girl! I refuse to be intimidated or unduly politically correct anymore and that's how I got the invitation to move. It was the 4th of July and they had handed out THOUSANDS of little American flags to all of the kids lining the parade route. After the parade, my 7 year old niece was riding in a cart back to the car and was apparantly leaning over and touching the ground with the tip of her flag stick. My BIL supposedly gave her one warning to stop before kicking her hand. When I caught up to them my niece was holding her hand and sobbing. You could see that her hand was red and that it truly hurt her. When I found out what had happened I cut loose on the BIL right there in the parking lot and I didn't stop. I was shocked that he would injure his own little girl over a 10 cent flag. While riding home in the back seat trying to explain to a 7 year old why people get so passionate about the flag I also slipped in the zinger that only the President of the United States is allowed to deface the flag by signing his name to them and handing them out as campaign souvenirs. After we got to my sister's house the tension got worse until the BIL exploded and yelled at me that I should move to Canada. What an idiot. When we went back for fireworks later, I pointed out all of the discarded little flags laying on the ground to my sister but within earshot of the BIL.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. Hopefully your sister will start to come around. My father barely speaks to his brother because of politics. My father and I wonder if it's just us or if everyone has lost their minds. Living in Utah is truly like living on an alternate universe — bizarro on so many levels. It really is a shame. I refuse to let politics stop me from seeing the people I want to see, like my two nieces, but I won't cow to them either. When I get forwarded a RW email from my BIL, I just delete it. I don't waste my energy anymore.

~TYY:hi:

[schultzee]

41. Yes! one email pal and I parted ways, my sister-in-law no longer

sends me those stupid "religous shrubery" emails, my father-in-law got angry with me for saying that by supporting **** he was hurting his children's future, and one friend and I can no longer talk about politics. My neighbors now hate me for my Kerry signs. I have probably alienatd about 7 people and more unknown when I wear my Anybody but Bush T shirt.
The heck will all of them; I have a right to my opinion though they think they they are like the communist party now and the rest of us have to just keep quite.

[liveoaktx]

44. Yes, someone used to send me email jokes

At one point, I was sent a joke about Kerry and I asked her not to send those jokes to me. She kept on anyway, so I sent a longer reply about how serious this was to me. She removed me from her joke alias and told me to lighten up. I, on the other hand, believe that if I told her the jokes that slammed Kerry offended me, she could have stopped forwarding those type.

[schultzee]

45. The USA may be on the verge of a civil war. Many rePIGs are violent

and think like the Nazies. Guess who would be the new Jews?

[put out]

46. Yes.

I have been totally taken aback by people. They are feeling so very free to spout nonsense. Vitriolic, hateful bullshit about every spin, lie, dung, fed into their ears. They take it as the absolute truth as fed to them by the "news", and sometimes from their place of worship.

The only thing I can do to piss them off, is this:

Give them a Stepford smile, and say, "Well, I am so sorry to see that you are thinking in this way. Well, I am so sorry you feel this way. Well, I am so sorry to see that this is upsetting to you. Well, I am so sorry; you seem to be angry. Perhaps this is a subject you should not discuss in a place where you may be challenged. The situation seems to be making you sad and mad. Gosh, that's a shame that you feel uncomfortable, now. Perhaps you should not bring up these things which seem to cause you such distress. It might be bad for your mental health. This must be a difficult time for you now".

Smiling all the while.

Then run.

[seabeyond]

47. lost one, distance with another

figure i will get a couple calls after nov. a goodie plate of christmas stuff. wink. maybe a gingerbread house. we have never been ugly with each other.

[ursacorwin]

51. not one!

i'm so proud of my friends and family. i'm the way-radical of the bunch, and at first they would laugh and joke about how obsessed i was; now they ask me for info and links! my parents have been reenergized (they're old civil rights activists) and my sister joined the dean effort, a first political action for her. the only member of the family who's conservative is her husband, and he is a REAL christian and thus will not be voting for bush...although his vote may go to the constitution party if moore runs.

to all who've lost friends and family, i'm so sorry. i wish i knew a way to get people to take the blinders off, so far, it seems as if the psy-ops that is fox, cnn etc. is perfect. if bush wins, i'm pretty sure we'll have some kind of major conflict(s) right here in america. i don't want to play liberal=jew to bush's new nazis, but it seems to be the only solution they can come up with (killing) for any problem they have or issue they don't like.

[proud patriot]

48. Yes,

but they have come around . Dems who after Sept 11th
thought "they had" to stand with bush.

After the invasion of Iraq , I heard from them
and they are sick of bush .

[Kukesa]

53. Yep, I've lost 3 friends.

They send me stupid email messages and then get angry when I reply to them.

They refuse to read my rebuttals and one "friend" told me I'm full of venom -- this was AFTER she went me the "Worst President Ever" garbage. Go figure.

:shrug:

[VolcanoJen]

62. You know, mom, I just emailed this thread to you.

You're the first person I thought of when I read it.

You're the most wonderful, lovely, giving, creative person I know, Mom. Your friends will come around to that. Except maybe for that "friend" who accused you of being "full of venom." That still makes me so freaking angry!! You know who's full of venom? Anyone who would ever, ever say that to one of their friends. :grr:

And if they don't come around, and can't see past the idiocy of Bush and the damage he's done to his countrymen, and their own friendships, then screw 'em. Screw 'em all, I say.

You'll always have me, and the wonderful DU community, and the fantastic group of new friends we've made through our Kerry/Edwards Volunteer Efforts!

There's always light at the end of the tunnel. Always.

Thanks for this thread, U2spirit!!

[Kukesa]

81. Do I have a terrific kid, or what? n/t

[CaTeacher]

54. Yes, I have lost friends. In fact, I was ostracised from one

group that I belonged to (a gardening club--would you believe that all the people were wingers?) Weird and crazy. I didn't need the so-called friends anyway.

However, with my family--I love them--blood is thicker than water--and I would never do anything to lose my relatives who are RW. So, with them I am more gentle. I love them, they love me, and nothing will ever change that. These are people who have been there for me in thick and thin and are the resason that I am the decent person who I am--so if we have our disagreements--we all still care about each other.

To everyone else (non-blood related to me)--hey I will not be gentle with you! If I disagree--you are going to hear about it. If you are an a-hole--well then I don't want you in my life anyway.

[RebelYell]

55. I've lost all but one friend....

...because of my political views. They believe the BS about 9/11/Saddam/AlQaeda. I could scream. Little by little, my friends dropped out of my life.

My husband is still in the dark and rather conservative, but votes Democratic.

My neighbors are conservative Repubs...I have a huge tree in my front yard where I nailed up a big sign that says, "WWJB - Who Would Jesus Bomb?" Needless to say, they don't speak to me anymore either.

[VolcanoJen]

63. Keep the faith, RebelYell. And, make new friends!

The best, and most obvious place to make new, like-minded friends is through volunteering for Democratic causes in your community!

And, you'll always have this wonderful community. Chin up, Rebel! I know how ya feel. :D

[mark414]

57. i've stopped speaking to some family

because of this stupid motherfucker and all his bullshit lies.

[Nashyra]

60. Yes

I find it very difficult to have friends that are so stupid. I have no friends voting for the *, although I have firends who are Repukes, they are not voting for him. I told my husband we would have to get a divorce if * wins because I could not be pleasant to the assholes he plays golf with that are going to vote for *. It has made me lose respect for my husband who talks so profoundly against the * then makes little talk with these guys and considers 2 of them actual friends. A vote for the * is a vote to draft our son, to me it's not about politics it's about the survival of our country and my son and the sons and daughters of this country who will be sent to the middle east to die there. No way, anyone who can vote for * is to damn stupid to be around, and selfish, most of all selfish and self absored.

[MrSlayer]

61. I would kill or die for my true friends and they would for me.

An argument over some dimwit in the White House or his policies is never going to break that bond.

[Tight_rope]

64. Republicans live in glass houses...yet they throw boulders all day!

The Republican party is truly a sad group of individuals. I've never seen such immature, incompetent, arrogant, manipulative, corrupt, and most of all destructive people in all the world. Every time I look at their faces I see Osama bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam, and the Taliban. The Republicans are the ones who have given the power to all of these evildoers, which makes them the evildoers too.

[NoPasaran]

65. A long time friend turned into a Rethug pod person

in the weeks before the war started. He told me that he wanted to be protected from "crazy muslims" and that if people had to live under bridges to support his lifestyle that was fine with him. I decided he was dead to me and haven't had any contact since.

[VolcanoJen]

68. I responded to one of those awful pro-Bush emails during the march to war.

It was sent by one of my friends to our larger group of close friends. It was sad, disgusting, and spread much, much disinformation.

I just had to hit "reply all." As much as I love each of you, I wrote, I stand firmly and steadfastly against this war, and I would appreciate being removed from your email lists. Maybe we'll talk after the next election... if there is one, I said.

I then added this now infamous email, "The Vietnam Checklist."

Iraq = Vietnam II

Preflight Check

1. Cabal of oldsters who won't listen to outside advice? -- Check

2. No understanding of ethnicities of the many locals? -- Check

3. Imposing country boundaries drawn by Europeans, not by the locals? -- Check

4. Unshakeable faith in our superior technology? -- Check

5. France secretly hoping we fall on our asses? -- Check

6. Russia secretly hoping we fall on our asses? -- Check

7. China secretly hoping we fall on our asses? -- Check

8. SecDef pushing a conflict the JCS never wanted? -- Check

9. Fear we'll look bad if we back down now? -- Check

10. Corrupt Texan in the White House? -- Check

11. Land war in Asia? -- Check

12. Right-wing unhappy with outcome of previous war? -- Check

13. Enemy easily moves in/out of neighboring countries? -- Check

14. Soldiers about to be dosed with "our own" chemicals? -- Check

15. Friendly-fire problem ignored instead of solved? -- Check

16. Anti-Americanism up sharply in Europe? -- Check

17. B-52 bombers? -- Check

18. Helicopters that clog up on the local dust? -- Check

19. In-fighting among the branches of the military? -- Check

20. Locals who cheer us by day, hate us by night? -- Check

21. Local experts ignored? -- Check

22. Local politicians ignored? -- Check

23. Locals accustomed to conflicts lasting longer than USA has been a country? -- Check

24. Against advice, Prez won't raise taxes to pay for war? -- Check

25. Blue-water navy ships operating in brown water? -- Check

26. Napalm in use? -- Check

27. Pentagon asking for more troops? -- Check

28. Use of nukes hinted at if things don't go our way? -- Check

29. Unpopular war? -- Check

VIETNAM II: YOU ARE CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF

Isn't that checklist chilling, 15 months after the fact?

I didn't hear back from anyone, of course. Since that time, my friends have been pretty respectful, but there is an unspoken tension when I'm in that group's presence these days. They know I'm an activist, and they know where I stand.

I like to think that everything will revert to normal after the election... but that would make me terribly naive, wouldn't it? :-(

[Tosca]

69. Yes.

I no longer want to associate with right-wing once-friends. I don't need the static.

[Lisa]

71. Yes! My friendship with the American people!

As a Canadian, I find it deeply distressing that many longtime family friends in the States are starting to repeat the right-wing talk radio line about Canada being "socialist" and "weak". I know that there are also Canadians who are using this as an excuse to bad-mouth Americans, which really disappoints me because they are simply repeating "the US is evil" without caring about what is wrong (or more important, how to fix it). In the long term, that kind of attitude is corrosive. My parents (Mom went to school in the US) are just not talking to their American friends about anything much, rather than risk having a big fight about politics.

Some people I know who moved down to get work in the States are now talking about feeling so uncomfortable that they want to come home, even if it means being underemployed.

Even in Canada, there have been repercussions. I used to work very closely with a group of military history enthusiasts in Ontario, and ever since they found out that I took part in the anti-war marches, they've been standoffish. I'm trying not to let it affect our working relationship, but it kind of hurts when I put a lot of work into something, and they don't even say thanks, vs. previous years when they've been highly complimentary. One Alberta guy I used to buy things from posted a big diatribe against Chretien's decision not to go into Iraq on his commercial website, and got mad at me when I (politely) pointed to the results of the latest public opinion poll and suggested that he was driving away as many customers as he was gaining. Maybe he felt uncomfortable at the possibility that he was putting high-rolling US customers ahead of his fellow Canadians, even though he emphasizes national pride in his marketing!

[Solly Mack]

72. I started losing republican friends in 1980..hit a high mark in 1992

..others trickled away during the 8 years of constant attacks on Clinton..Selection 2000 skewered a few...and fully killed off by 2001 when the remaining semi-normal ones went ape-shit after September 11th.

I do still have contact with one that has lost all pride in the republican party...who laments the religious take-over by right wing religious nutcases and Bush....but he voted democratic from time to time to begin with...

[bushwakker]

73. Yes I no longer can bear the presence of Bruce N.

We've been very good friends for about 5 years and initially one of our bond was our interest in politics (although he was a GOPer). At this point I hate poeple who supported the war (has any of them ever admitted they were wrong?) and I question the integrity and intelligence of anyone who votes for AWOL. Thanks AWOL for uniting the people.

[Tight_rope]

74. I NOTICED THAT MOST OF THE RESPONSES CAME FROM WOMEN...

Do you think that this is because women tend to have more friendships then men or do you believe that just as many men had just as many one sided friendships but they refuse to end the friendship.

Tell me what you think!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. My 84 yr old WWII vet Dad is fighting me over who is more....

...anti-NeoCon, anti-FratBoy, and anti-war. The guy is also reading all of the latest books...I wish I had the time to do the same.

But, I no longer speak to certain people that made my life miserable when the NeoCons took over during the Coup of December 2000. I told them at the time that having Bush in the White House was the worst thing that could have happened. I told them to expect the economy to go downhill fast. I also predicted the fact that the NeoCons were looking for ANY excuse for a war in the Middle East. When 911 took place, I knew exactly what was going to happen next.

The only thing that has not come to pass so far is my prediction that we would dissolve into a civil war...and I hope that prediction NEVER happens.

[Lisa]

76. it's awful to think that Bush LIKES it this way ...

Sure, he doesn't have the loyalty of the entire country, but he's stoked up about 20% of it so they worship his very bootsoles -- and 50-60% is so scared and uncertain that they'll do what he wants just to avoid a fuss, in the hope it'll make things better. If the price is making unfair scapegoats of the remaining 20%, that's just fine with him and his cronies -- they never liked those people anyway and sure didn't want to share power with them!

He wants any opposition to be so marginalized and discredited that they just give up, rather than be ostracized by their own friends and families. A person is called an "activist" (note the negative connotation!) for rebutting pro-Bush spam or carrying a sign at a protest, or joining a forum like this.

The leader who didn't want to tear the country apart was the "real" President -- like King Solomon's decision with the baby!

[lapislzi]

77. No, but only due to strenuous efforts on everyone's part

We'll have our discussions and then "agree to disagree," knowing only that we'll cancel out each other's vote.

It's a lot of work, but I think it's building my character...

[Zorra]

79. I have no republican friends. Only republican acquaintances.

Last night I was in the cantina having a discussion with a non-voting friend about Bu$h. (I plan to register him to vote, with his permission - he hates Bu$h) There was a Pox News watching brainwashed Bu$h lover next to us who I have had an amicable relationship with for two years that has not voted, TG, for thirty years. He asked who I thought was going to win. I told him Kerry was surging ahead of Bu$h in the polls, and it looked like Kerry was going to win. He got red in the face angry, stood up, said "I'm outta here", and took his drink with him.

My friend and I shook our heads and smiled, and toasted to Bu$h's defeat.

The thing is, I cannot seem to have an honest friendship with someone that is uninformed or misinformed and has opinions based on nothing but ignorance and misinformation. It is impossible to have any type of constructive conversation with someone whose entire mentality is based on what I consider mostly fictions, and who gets angry and abusive when dearly held beliefs are challenged with provable factual information. The guy seems to be a knowledgeable mechanic, and I respect his opinion in that area, although it would bore me to tears to talk about auto mechanics at any length.

IMO, you can only change someone's mind if they are willing to have an honest discussion. And those people are out there. Usually, in my experience, they are non-voters who know something is wrong, can't put their finger on it, but realize that Bu$h is a bad pResident. We can get these folks to vote Democrat if we make the effort.

[stavka]

80. I thing this "Uniter" has cost me 2-3 friends, not my best friends...

...but I miss their friendly attitude.....

[Innoma]

83. You Bet...

I invited a good friend of mine I've known for years to see F911, but when her husband found out, he flat out forbade her to see it and turned it into a 'why don't you support your husband?' kind of thing. In the interest of 'peace in the homeland,' she later rather timidly cancelled, and since then, our friendship has been decidely cool.

I didn't press the issue, or even ask why, but I was very disappointed that two people who had long been so open-minded and thoughtful about the world suddenly became so threatened and defensive about anti-Bush viewpoints.

Now, I can bring up the topic with my dad, and he'll listen politely and squirm uncomfortably, but at the end of any such 'discussion' (or should I say, at the end of *my* discussion since I'm the only one talking) he'll pronounce any anti-Bush sentiment lies and treasonous besides and then promptly change the subject.

That's a vast improvement over numerous close relatives who are known to throw shoes and other assorted objects at the TV or radio whenever they see or hear anything Democrat or Kerry-related.

[Marvelous_Smarty]

84. I have too few friends as it is.

My truest friends are two Army buddies and another couple of guys. We all ride sportbikes together. While we are all over the map politically, we usually stick to things that are common passions.
Guns, Girls and Sportbikes.

We all know each others political convictions but we forgive each others' differences. Now if one of us started riding a Harley, THAT would be unforgivable.

[TroubleMan]

85. Yeah...I don't see Mr. Franklin and Mr. Grant nearly as much as I used to

nt/

[LSU_Subversive]

86. I've lost a lot of respect for many people that I used to admire.

And the current ideological debates do a fine job of clarifying who's even worth my time.

As far as close friendships are concerned, however, the current political situation hasn't really changed anything. I choose my friends carefully. Though I must admit that there are many people who I haven't even bothered to really get to know, because they've already turned me off by their obviously willful ignorance (these are otherwise intelligent people) and lack of interest in what is happening politically. That's not to say that I won't have a serious discussion with someone if they show an interest and ask questions. But I'm not about to go out and start proselytizing at work or when in social situations. In my experience that's done more harm than good.