A serious question: Sy Hersh told the ACLU that this

[harrison]

is the most important election since 1860. Of course, we know what happened then, when Lincoln was elected, and civil war broke out. When Mr Hersh made his statement, I didn't take it to mean that he thought civil war would break out; I took it to mean that there is so much simply at stake in this election, just like in 1860.

Be that as it may, here is my question: If Bush wins, can anyone see actual civil war breaking out in this country? If you do, could you give me a plausible scenario as to how that would happen?

Since it happened once, could it happen again?

[burythehatchet]

1. Aside from a relatively small number of people

the vast majority is too hypnotized to go down that road.

[elfwitch]

4. I agree with you...

Just ask any random person if the know what's going on and most will have no idea. You either have people who don't keep up with current events or people who do but get their information from the network news channels. In any case, people are either too numb or dumb to rise up.

[Flubadubya]

9. You may underestimate "our crowd"...

namely, we on the left have been putting up with a tremendous amount of criminality from this administration mostly because we hope to be shed of them come November. Imagine the disappointment followed by profound frustration should the Chimp be re-crowned. I really do believe this country is in for some real civil unrest if they get back in. Count on it!

[elfwitch]

12. People will only rise up when...

their comfort zone has been breached. The * Empire would have to go really far to push enough people out of their comfort zones.

I relay this sentiment:
First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

[burythehatchet]

15. Fair enough. Here's a psycho-social dynamic that might awaken the masses

Every revolution arises after much repression, corruption, and skullduggery. Check.
Regimes that are opressors get drunk on their increasing power. Check.
When you're drunk you do stupid things and make sloppy mistakes. Check.
The middle class, which acts as a buffer between the haves and have-nots, shrinks. Check.

So I go back to my original opinion, that the people are too dazed to be able to rise up. I do believe that is the case. However, I have a tremendous amount of faith in the capacity of people to do good (as well as evil). If a time comes where conditions lead to just a few people being killed or otherwise harmed. Such as a high profile arrest or something aloong those lines, then I DO believe that the masses will awaken quickly. If that should happen, all bets are off. There will be a blood bath.

Essentially, it will happen if the opression hits close to home.

[tom_paine]

5. Agreed. By the time the Imperial Subjects awake, they will be in Virtual

Chains.

I am afraid I agree 100%

[CaTeacher]

19. I don't see any states that would try to leave the Union.

so--if you had small uprisings by people--it would be rioting in cities (which we have had before--not really the same as a civil war).

If there were riots, Bush would put them down brutally I am sure.

[fob]

2. I take tha to mean that the election of 1860 brought about the end

of slavery. The election of 2004 could signal it's pending return. Only this time it's not slavery based on race alone, but will be enslavement of all based on FEAR.

[Flubadubya]

3. I don't see it happening as an immediate reaction...

to Bu*h getting back in the White House. However, my "gut instinct" tells me that they have some very nasty things planned for the people of this country as his term progresses. The constitution will be veritably decimated, freedoms curtailed, and more war-mongering (it's a lie when he says he plans to be the "peace president" in his second term).

I can and do easily visualize conditions becoming so bad under this "thing" they call "president" that there will likely be at least much civil unrest, if not outright civil war. Trust me on this one!

[ursacorwin]

10. i agree.

it's always hard to predict what's going to happen, but some things are pretty clear. bush has screwed us over in so many areas, it'll be really hard to avoid unrest as the consequences become more and more obvious to more people.

but it's true as well that the sheeple seem to be hypnotized by the boob tube to the point that mexico and canda could invade tomorrow and most of the would shrug and say, "but what's j-lo doing?"

[lovuian]

6. Yes I think a Civil War will happen...the states will have to rise up

Sy Hersh is right...if Bush gets in the people will have to take things in their own hands and it will have to be by using the States

You have been seeing that already!!! It will get more & More

SEC doesn't convict anybody....Spitzer in New York prosecutes their thievery...thats whats been going on

The turmoil will tear this country apart...which is what Conservatives want...they want the land of the people to be the land of fascism

We will never see such a terrible election as this..

[mongo]

7. A civil war would take the support of state governments

It is not going to happen. A few riots? Perhaps. Civil war - ain't going to happen.

This is more of a class war issue.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. I don't see it happening over ideology, but if enough

people are truly suffering, they'll rise up. *read as: a revolt of the poor..break out the guillotines!*

[indigobusiness]

11. When the pacifier is pulled from the mouth of the masses...

civil war will break out.

[DinahMoeHum]

13. I dunno about civil war, but there could well be a massive "brain drain"

as budding scientists, engineers, entrepreneurs, etc. will take their talents and their job/business creating potentials with them to another country. In essence, they will "outsource" themselves.

from The Washington Monthly:
"Creative Class War: How the GOP's anti-elitism could ruin America's economy." By Richard Florida
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0401.florida.html

:smoke:

[Johnyawl]

14. Wrong scenario: civil war will break out if the Dems win

If Kerry wins, and the Dems take control of the House and Senate (a long shot, but within the realm of possibility) I believe the hard core Christian right will begin to seriously look at taking the bible belt out of the Union, and establishing their own "Christian" nation.

[Cleita]

17. Would that be a bad thing?

I would suggest Utah as a good place for them since it's already a theocracy anyway.

[Johnyawl]

20. It could well lead to the complete break up of the Union

and the establishment of somewhere between 3 and 7 separate countries. Worse yet would be the dislocation of millions of people, as the liberals and secularists fled oppression in the theocracies, and the fundamentalists and conservatives were burned out of the liberal areas.

[Cleita]

16. I have been getting a sinking feeling lately that the military

might stage a coup d' etat. Historically, miltary takeovers, although effective, don't bring democracy with them. I've been hoping in case of a repeat of election 2000 that the judicial system will take over, lawyers and judges, instead of military. If enough of them get on board, even the Supreme Court can't overrule or more importantly ignore what is happening.

[Joanne98]

18. If Sy Hersh has video

Of children being raped, he needs to put it on the internet. I know he doesn't want to make it harder for the troops but this is an emergency. That video could drop Bush's poll numbers by ten points. It would might a great "October Surprise". Come on Sy. You know it's true.