“trying to keep someone from taking a plane and crashing into the WTC"

[Junkdrawer]

On Page 274 of the 9/11 report:

There was substantial disagreement between Minneapolis agents and FBI headquarters as to what Moussaoui was planning to do. In one conversation between a Minneapolis supervisor and a headquarters agent, the latter com=plained that Minneapolis’s FISA request was couched in a manner intended to get people “spun up.”The supervisor replied that was precisely his intent. He said he was “trying to keep someone from taking a plane and crashing into the World Trade Center.” The headquarters agent replied that this was not going to happen and that they did not know if Moussaoui was a terrorist.

I'll have more to say later, but I've always considered the Rowley Memo to be one of the most damning pieces of evidence that a Stand Down prior to 9/11 was in place. But I never knew that the Minn. agents said that!

BTW: The FBI supervisor that blocked the FISA? Promoted.

[wadestock]

1. What I find extremely distressing....

Is the general acceptance of "security failures"....and even today on TV people saying...hey....we were in a "mode" pre-911 that if you were hijacked, you would simply fly to a Havana or someplace safe.

Bullcrap.

The warning of terrorist threats were there and everyone was asleep at the wheel.

I got on a plane 2 weeks after 911...won't tell you details...but I had to take a LOT of food with me. Took on carry on a backpack of about 30 large beef stew cans and so forth...each had a razor sharp flip lid with them....and NOT ONE person querried anything in the backpack.

I was so completely unnerved when I went out of my way and ASKED people why they didn't care and they just looked at me stupid. It was hard to keep their attention off my boots. Now at 6'1", 250lbs and built to benchpress 325, with a beard and looking rather upset I could have been considered a likely source of concern.

Here's the thing at this point...with the election so close and our wonderful spineless representatives already missing the ball on all of this...it wouldn't make sense for them at this point to raise the flag.

Anyway...I hope if Kerry gets in....and we pick up seats and momentum....that we'll flush this type of crap out....

[Joanne98]

11. They're fighting the last war

Which means we're going to get hit again. But it will all be Clinton's fault.

[MallRat]

13. 30 large cans of beef stew?

C'mon, don't leave us hanging. You have to explain that one.

Were you just really, really, really hungry?

-MR

[wadestock]

20. I was off on a field exercise.....in the middle of no where.....

I called ahead to the team that was there and said....what should I bring....

I expected batteries, flashlights, this that, whatever....

They said FOOD!!!

I also packed as many as I could into a suitcase that was checked in....and between the two of them it was so f'in heavy I had all I could do to walk the mile or so from the car to the airport.

But coming back....I usually take a couple beers carry on with me for the ride.....and many people don't know they'll never stop you from taking the beer on board...at least not recently anyway.....

Here's where I was threatened to be throw off the plane unless I quickly forked over the open can.

I said...I've been bringing 2 or 3 beers on board ever since I can remember flying. After much to do they said I could carry them on board but not drink them on board.
I found that really interesting.....as if it would be OK to crack one the second I got off the plane.

So in other words...this is an example of the convoluted thinking that goes on and the total mental confusion these people are in to begin with.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. Two weeks prior to 9-11

I was flying out of LaGuardia. The plane was late coming in and no was at the gate or the counter until the plane landed.

Once they cleared the passengers, a flight attendant called 'last call for boarding'. I thought that was odd, they didn't even make the first call.

I went to the gate and tried to present my ticket, and the gal just shooed me and 30 other passengers on board, without checking any of us. I tried to get her to take my ticket, but she told me to just take a seat, since they were in a hurry to turn the plane. It was the only time in my life I've ever boarded a plane without anyone checking my credentials.

So despite the Aug 6th PDB, and all kinds of other noise and warnings, the airlines weren't even implanting basic security anymore. Nice of the Condi and NSA, to stay on top of things and to let the airlines know they had serious concerns.

[Junkdrawer]

24. I flew out of LaGuardia at 10 PM, 9/10/2001 - as the last standby...

Thunderstorms that afternoon and I felt very lucky to get home that night. Needless to say, the next day I felt even MORE lucky.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. But, but, but, We never had any thought of people

flying planes into buildings.-- KindaSleazy Rice

[Junkdrawer]

4. No wonder Rowley was pissed when she wrote the memo...

Remember how many ways she tried to get that FISA? And she's telling them exactly what could/will happen and they ignored her.

[Junkdrawer]

3. BTW: Here's a link to the report:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/22jul20041140/www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf

[sandnsea]

5. DC & the "little people"

That's a HUGE problem and it's not limited to politicians. It's amazing this country functions at all since we're not all as smart as those folks in DC. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

6. Sorry, Condi said "No one could IMAGINE using planes as missiles."

She did!

[tom_paine]

7. Well it figures the Imperials would want to promote a man who had

helped them so much be contributing to the 9-11 event that so benefitted the Imperial Family.

makes perfect sense to me.

I'll bet Hitler promoted the SA guys who burned the Reichstag and also the SS Men who made sure it was pinned on the patsy they desired.

Nothing changes, does it?

[redqueen]

10. Not without force

witness the end of child labor here... the end of working people to death in mills and mines... the beginning of the end of sweatshops...

They're working so very hard to put us back in our place, aren't they?

[LizW]

8. I just don't get how

after the Bojinka plot was discovered, anyone could not be aware of the possibility of suicide crashes of commercial jets. If I'm not mistaken, two of the targets in Bojinka were the CIA (or State Department) and the Pentagon!

:argh:

[Atman]

12. Don't forget the FOX Teevee show

The pilot. I have a copy of it, but don't know where it is linked online. A pilot for a new Fox show, wherein the good guys attempt to stop a group of Muslims from flying hijacked planes into the World Trade Center. Pre-dates 9/11 by a few months...obviously it never aired. Wonder why?

Bullshit that "no one could have imagined."

[Ivan Sputnik]

14. There was also

an episode of "The Lone Gunman" (short-lived "X-Files" spin-off) involving a plot to (electronically) hijack a plane and fly it into the WTC--several months before 9/11.

I wonder how the writers of these TV episodes felt on 9/11.

[LizW]

16. No, it aired! "The Lone Gunmen" pilot - February, 2001

Produced by Chris Carter, the same guy who did "The X-Files".

I saw this show, but unfortunately didn't record it, 'cause it will never air again. Here's a link to a clip. The picture is awful and dark, but turn it up loud and listen to the dialogue. It's amazing.

http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/911.htm

(Scroll down to #13 and click on "Watch the trailer here.")

[Bucky]

34. MEGA-KICK: Here's the "Lone Gunmen" script

Too evil folks. Found this on RedWolf.com. Hacker nerd Byers is confronting his father the spy (Bertram) over the generic "wicked government plot"...

Byers: "What is Scenario 12D? We know, it's a war game scenario, that it has to do with airline counter-terrorism. Why is it important enough to kill for?"
Bertram Byers: "Because it's no longer a game."
Byers: "But if, some terrorist group wants to, act out this scenario, why target you for assassination?"
Bertram Byers: "Depends on who your terrorists are."
Byers: "The men who conceived of it in the first place. You're saying our government plans to commit a terrorist act against a domestic air..."
Bertram Byers: "There you go, indicting the entire government as usual. It's a faction, a small faction..."
Byers: "For what possible gain?"
Bertram Byers: "The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully-loaded 727 into the middle of New York City; you'll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world, just clamouring to take responsibility. And begging to be smart bombed."
Byers: "I can't believe it; this is about increasing arms sales?"
Bertram Byers: "Mm-hmm."
Byers: "When?"
Bertram Byers: "Tonight."
Byers: "How are you going to stop them? Why didn't you tell the world this? Go to the press?"
Bertram Byers: "You think I'd still be drawing breath 30 minutes after I made that call? The press? Who's going to run this story?"
Byers: "We would."
Bertram Byers: "This?" (He picks up one of the newspapers) "This is birdcage liner. Wild-eyed crap right up there with, Elvis is an alien and two-headed babies."
Byers: "You obviously read it."
Bertram Byers: "Don't be so damn naive. You think this is going to save the world? I'm doing what I can, John. I don't have all the specifics on Scenario 12D. But I think I know the flight they've chosen. You stay out of it. I don't want Overlord gunning for you too."

[Bucky]

36. Oops, forgot the other creepy scene...

Byers: "I need to know our flight plan."
Frohike: (on phone) "I'm mapping the data now."
Langly: (on phone) "Byers... Your flight's going to make an unscheduled stop. In exactly 22 minutes."
Frohike: (on phone) "The corner of Liberty and Washington. Lower Manhattan."
Byers: "World Trade Centre." (to Bertram Byers) They're going to crash the plane into the World Trade Centre."
Bertram Byers: "I'll tell the flight crew."
Byers: "Langly... can you override the flight control system?"
Langly: (on phone) "Working on it..."

As the plane approaches Manhatten, Frohike approaches the industrial spy who has the computer chip needed to save the day and says, "Give us the chip, Yves, or you'll be sacrificing the lives of hundreds of people, including Byers and his father."

Hundreds.

This broadcasted in April 2001, while some strangers were taking flight simulator classes in Florida and the midwest.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Especially since CNN published the info in 1996

and the transcripts from the testimony from the 1993 WTC bombing trials were available to the public.

[Joanne98]

9. LIHOP/MIHOP

coming to a country near you. Yikes.

[Lisa]

15. how about WWII kamikaze pilots?

One would think they had covered this in the Yale history courses that Georgie supposedly took. Or surely his dad (a pilot in the Pacific theater) would have mentioned that yes, people HAVE been known to crash planes into targets on purpose.


And there's always that Tom Clancy airport novel that describes a terrorist crashing a hijacked jet into Congress.

[bobbieinok]

18. right.....even I had read that Clancy novel...I thot he was RW favorite

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. My hubbie is big Tom Clancy fan

Ever since W took office, he's been telling me, that W thinks he's Jack Ryan.

[wadestock]

22. Another example of our feeding the ideas to the terrorists....

Have you seen the latest stuff lately.....
Yes they are waking up....just a bit....on the issue of homeland security....

But in the meantime they are feeding constant information about how to actually perform those terrorist attacks.

[Generator]

17. Inside job jokes FBI agent Rowley and others....

But the supervisor "deliberately further undercut" the request by withholding "intelligence information he promised to add and making several changes in the wording of the information." The resistance from Washington got so bad, she writes, that agents in her office joked that some FBI officials "had to be spies or moles, like Robert Hansen , who were actually working for Osama bin Laden."

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/27/time.fbi/

Hmmm..inepitude or an inside job?

For the real story on 9/11 I recommend:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project


Thank GOD For the internet truthsayers!

That "joke" has stayed with me. It's chilling.

[Old and In the Way]

30. Did Frasca testify?

He was one of the FBI agents thar stuffed the info....he was rewarded with a promotion.

[progressivebydesign]

19. but... I thought there was a drill planned for the week of 9/11..

.. a simlution of a PLANE hitting the Pentagon, etc. Remember hearing that? That's why so many people thought it was a drill at first. It's total bullshit to say that they didn't think a plane would be used that way... it's been reported in several places. This is just proving to me that the report was a waste of our tax dollars.. because it says NOTHING. It just pins the blame on anyone but Bush.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. And don't forget this

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

WASHINGTON — In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon — but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.

NORAD, in a written statement, confirmed that such hijacking exercises occurred. It said the scenarios outlined were regional drills, not regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises.

"Numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft," the statement said. "These exercises tested track detection and identification; scramble and interception; hijack procedures; internal and external agency coordination and operational security and communications security procedures."

[Old and In the Way]

31. Interesting.

Now if this was a MIHOP operation, they'd certainly would have learned a lot from that simulation.

[bluedog]

27. I found this....

anyone who has the book check this out



FACT: Page 204 of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 noted that "In May 2001, the intelligence community obtained a report that Bin Laden supporters were planning to infiltrate the United States" to "carry out a terrorist operation using high explosives." The report "was included in an intelligence report for senior government officials in August <2001>." In the same month, the Pentagon "acquired and shared with other elements of the Intelligence Community information suggesting that seven persons associated with Bin Laden had departed various locations for Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States."

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/24jul20031400/www.gpoaccess.gov/serialse t/creports/pdf/recommendations.pdf

I guess Bush would say it depends on what the meaning of "attack" is!


*President Bush's Vacation Schedule starting Aug.6, 2001 – the day of the PDB warning about an impending al Qaeda attack in the U.S.

Monday, August 6
4-mile run, built nature walk in canyon, fishing.<1>


Tuesday, August 7
Golf.<2>
3-mile run.<3>
Fishing, cookout with Mel Martinez.<4>


Wednesday, August 8
Habitat for Humanity, Waco, TX (injured finger).<5>
Worked out with weights.<6>


Thursday, August 9
Jogging, fishing, announced stem cell decision (9pm EST).<7>


Sunday, August 12
Church near Crawford.<8>


Monday, August 13
Golf, signed agriculture bill with audience of farmers.<9>


Tuesday, August 14, 2001
Thinned brush and raised money at a picnic in Colorado.<10>
Talked to children at YMCA camp in Colorado.<11>


Wednesday, August 15, 2001
Talked to children in Albuquerque, opened job-training center, addressed Chamber of Commerce, attended fundraiser for Sen. Domenici, Colorado Rockies v. Atlanta Braves.<12>


Saturday, August 18, 2001
Radio address re: faith-based initiatives.<13>


Monday, August 20, 2001
Addressed VFW Convention, toured Harley-Davidson plant, Milwaukee.<14>
Work out, dinner with friends.<15>


Tuesday, August 21, 2001
Truman High School, Independence, MO re: taxes.<16>

Wednesday, August 22, 2001
Ran, lifted weights.<17>


Thursday, August 23, 2001
Golf, Crawford Elementary School, met with horticulturalist re: trees on ranch.<18>


Friday, August 24, 2001
Press conference re: economy (1st press conference of vacation).<19>


Saturday, August 25, 2001
Ranch tour for the press (80 minutes).<20>

Sunday, August 26, 2001
Steel Plant in Pennsylvania, barbeque.<21>
Little League World Series Championship (Japan v. Florida).<22>


Wednesday, August 29, 2001
Spoke at an American Legion Convention re: military budget, tax cut.<23>
Dedicated a restored grist mill, San Antonio.<24>

[Junkdrawer]

28. This all fits the "Players got Played" scenario perfectly...

they expected an attack - they just didn't expect to lose both the WTCs. Remember Afghan invasion plans were on the pResident's desk well before 9-11.

[Old and In the Way]

33. I recall reading a story sometime around 9/11 here on the board..

about the fact that the CIA had assets inside AQ in Afghanistan. I believe it was a CNN article. This struck me as quite credible. I'm sure that their intel could have been diverted directly through Rumsfield and Bush. Perhaps they thought they knew the real plan.

Bush had an executive action plan awaiting his signature to go after the Taliban in Afghanistan before 9/11. Condi volunteered that info too. I wonder how they planned to justify that action?

[Corgigal]

29. Just another one to stir the pot

Columbine Killers Envisioned Hijacking and Crashing Plane
L.A. Times Staff
LOS ANGELES TIMES -- Littleton, Colorado
The two students who killed 13 people at Columbine High School wanted to kill at least 500 others, attack nearby homes and then hijack a plane and crash it into New York City, investigators said. Authorities also said today they planned to question an 18-year-old girl about whether she purchased two of the firearms used in the rampage.

Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone earlier told reporters the goal of the killers, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, was to strike during the busy lunch hour to go for “a big kill.”

But in an interview published today in The Denver Post, Stone said the gunmen’s diary indicates that if they survived, they wanted more-- to “hijack an airplane and crash it into a major city.” He said New York City was their target.



http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N22/littleton.22w.html

[DrBB]

32. Know what happened to Rowley's supervisor? Hm?

The one who issued the back-off orders? Punished, do ya think (you poor naive ninny)?

Nope. Promoted. Given a big bonus and a citation and a promotion.

Do we promote, reward, and give citations to people whose actions we disapprove of, or approve of? Which? Hm?

[bpilgrim]

35. and guess how many FISA's were turned down under clintons watch?

0

peace