Bin Laden flights and the 911 report

[dennis4868]

I have yet to look at the 911 report...from what I am reading here it does not seem to be an accurate description of the facts and circumstances of 911 and pre-911. Anyway, I heard that the 911 report stated that there is no evidence that the bin Laden family flew when all flying after 911 was prohibited. What about the flight from Tampa to Kentucky on 9/13/01. There is a ton of supporting evidence that that flight occurred, and now there is evidence that a WH plane was used for the flight. Did the 911 commission lie about this event. Whats the story?

[Caution]

1. international flights were not allowed until the 14th

domestic airspace was re-opened on the 13th.

there is no lie here. the question is why were they not fully debriefed before being allowed to leave the country.

[dennis4868]

2. what is your source....

that domestic flights were allowed on the 13th (besides the 911 report which is a phony document to begin with)?

[Carni]

4. Michael Moore has a host of links

Showing that domestic are traffic was still restricted on the 13th.

[Caution]

9. MOST domestic traffic was still restricted

but there were some flights. the point is that the report itself is not wrong in this respect. the question remains why these people were allowed to fly at all regardless of whether or not air traffic was flowing.

and i beg to differ on the report. what makes you say it is phony. I'm in the process of doing a careful reading of it and so far it is not kind to bush and his administration and flatly contradicts some of the things bush has said about what happened that day. Hell it states quite clearly that for the first 30 minutes that bush was aware of the attacks that he did NOTHING except prepare a statement. He was not in touch with the Pentagon or anyone who might actually act to protect us from any planes that might still be in the air. All he was concerned about was his statement. for 30 damned minutes. he was supposedly the commander-in-chief. well why the hell didnt he issue any orders?

contrary to what you may have heard this report is not kind to bush up to the point im at.

[dennis4868]

10. From what you have read so far....

is the report an objective analysis? As soon as I heard that the 911 report stated that both Bush and Clinton did not take the threat seriously, I decided I was not going to read the report...it is quite obvious that Clinton was obsessed with fighting terrorism and there is plenty of evidence to back that up. The 911 report comparing Clinton to Bush in this regard is sick!

[Caution]

12. so far the report seems quite objective

remember there are varying degrees of "seriously" as well and remember that the pundits who claim this is what the report says have only read the summary. the best way for you to make your own judgement is for you to read it. this is a report to the people of the US. it's $10 for a hard copy, go out and buy it and read it.

The one clear thing i can see from reading this is that the FAA and NORAD were simply not prepared in any way for this type of event. the level of incomepetence in planning is incredible to me. On top of this airport security and the rules governing that security were absurd.

most of the hijackers were actually flagged at the airport as security risks. If 5 guys on the same flight are tagged that to me would be a big glaring indicator but no one even blinked.

At the very least this report makes for some scary reading.

[Carni]

3. The tampa flight didn't contain the bin ladens

On board were three people -- one of whom was the Saudi Defense minister's son but no bin laden family members.

That flight did take place when air traffic was grounded.

That is how they are spinning this thing...the Bin Laden's DID fly out of the country after the air ban was lifted, so anytime these nit wits answer these questions, they just focus on the flight of the bin laden family members (on Sept 17th) and never mention all the other saudis flying around WITHIN the country while there was still an air traffic ban.

[dennis4868]

6. Are you saying...

that the bin laden family did not fly at all (either domestically or internationally) until 9/17? That goes against Criag Unger's book which is really the bible on this issue. I seem to remember reading his book about bin laden family members flying to kentucky while the flying ban was still in place to kentucky to meet up with the other saudis, and then they flew back home when they were allowed to fly. But the flight to kentucky was during the ban on flying.

[Carni]

8. I meant the bin ladens

Didn't fly OUT of the country until the 17th (I believe it was the 17th) but yes, Unger has all the details regarding the domestic flights and the last I knew the bin laden's were not on board the flight from Tampa to Kentucky that the other poster referred to above.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. who was the thrid passenger???

[RobertSeattle]

5. Do some research

Download the .pdf

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf (7 Mb)

Search for "Tampa"

You will find:

25.After the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from
the United States between September 14 and 24. In addition, one Saudi government flight, containing the Saudi
deputy defense minister and other members of an official Saudi delegation, departed Newark Airport on September
14.Every airport involved in these Saudi flights was open when the flight departed, and no inappropriate actions
were taken to allow those flights to depart. See City of St. Louis Airport Authority, Lambert–St. Louis International
Airport response to Commission questions for the record,May 27,2004;Los Angeles International Airport response
to Commission questions for the record, June 2, 2004; Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, Orlando International
Airport response to Commission questions for the record, June 8, 2004;Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority,
Washington Dulles International Airport response to Commission questions for the record, June 8, 2004; Port
Authority of New York and New Jersey, JFK Airport response to Commission questions for the record, June 4,
2004; Massachusetts Port Authority, Logan International Airport, and Hanscom Airfield response to Commission
questions for the record, June 17, 2004; Las Vegas–McCarran International Airport response to Commission questions
for the record, June 22, 2004; Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,Newark Airport response to supplemental
question for the record, July 9, 2004.
Another particular allegation is that a flight carrying Saudi nationals from Tampa, Florida, to Lexington,Kentucky,
was allowed to fly while airspace was closed, with special approval by senior U.S. government officials. On
September 13,Tampa police brought three young Saudis they were protecting on an off-duty security detail to the
airport so they could get on a plane to Lexington. Tampa police arranged for two private investigators to provide
security on the flight.They boarded a chartered Learjet. Dan Grossi interview (May 24, 2004);Manuel Perez interview
(May 27, 2004); John Solomon interview (June 4, 2004); Michael Fendle interview (June 4, 2004).The plane
took off at 4:37 P.M., after national airspace was open, more than five hours after the Tampa airport had reopened,
and after other flights had arrived at and departed from that airport. Hillsborough County Aviation Authority,Tampa
International Airport response to Commission questions for the record, June 7, 2004.The plane’s pilot told us there
was “nothing unusual whatsoever” about the flight other than there were few airplanes in the sky.The company’s
owner and director of operations agreed, saying that “it was just a routine little trip for us” and that he would have heard if there had been anything unusual about it.The pilot said he followed standard procedures and filed his flight
plan with the FAA prior to the flight, adding,“I was never questioned about it.”Christopher Steele interview (June
14, 2004); Barry Ellis interview (June 14, 2004). FAA records confirm this account. FAA supplemental response to
Commission questions for the record, June 8, 2004.When the plane arrived at Lexington Blue Grass Airport, that
airport had also been open for more than five hours. Lexington-Fayette Urban County Airport Board, Blue Grass
Airport response to Commission questions for the record, June 8, 2004.The three Saudi nationals debarked from
the plane and were met by local police.Their private security guards were paid, and the police then escorted the
three Saudi passengers to a hotel where they joined relatives already in Lexington. Mark Barnard interview (June
7, 2004).The FBI is alleged to have had no record of the flight and denied that it occurred, hence contributing to
the story of a “phantom flight.”This is another misunderstanding.The FBI was initially misinformed about how
the Saudis got to Lexington by a local police officer in Lexington who did not have firsthand knowledge of the
matter.The Bureau subsequently learned about the flight. James M. interview (June 18, 2004).

[dennis4868]

7. If I do research....

I will not use the 911 whitewash report...i do not trust that report.

[RobertSeattle]

11. OK, whatever

The Right Wing hates the report since it doesn't blame Clinton or Democrats enough and doesn't absolve Bush, The Left wing considers it a white wash because it doesn't damange the Bush administration enough. I guess I'm stuck in the middle!

[Caution]

13. I'm with you

my reading of this thing so far is that they have done a damned fine job in putting it together and they are HIGHLY critical of pretty much everybody.

[RobertSeattle]

18. Thanks -

I hate to invoke the "silent majority", but I bet the silent majority basically approves of the 911 report - it's the extremes on both sides who do not like it.

[Carni]

14. A month ago the 911 commission claimed to know nothing about

Flights out of Tampa on the 13th of September

There was a flight out of Tampa on the 13th the 911 commission claims in it's report that airspace had been open for 4 hours when it took place--

Previously the Government denied the flight took place at all and as recently as June 2004 the 911 commission claimed they knew nothing about it.


Forgive me for not having very much confidence in the fact that now that they have had to admit it took place on the 13th, they claim it was "perfectly legal"--

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:JDI05_jcH2MJ:www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml+secret+saudi+flight+9-13+tampa+records&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


"Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.

"Whether such a (LearJet) flight would have been legal hinges on whether somebody paid for it," said FAA spokesman William Shumann. "That's the key.""

Regardless of the above what the hell does it matter?

These people were allowed to fly out at their leisure with little or no questioning.

[Carni]

15. BTW Have you seen THIS?

This was posted at DU yesterday (not by me)

http://houseofbush.com/index.php?p=11

Bin Laden Manifests

Craig Unger, July 22

For months we’ve known that approximately two dozen members of the bin Laden family were among the 142 passengers on the White House-approved Saudi evacuation, but exactly which members of the family were on the flights? This week, Senator Frank Lautenberg(D-NJ) released the passenger list for the September 19, 2001, Boston to Paris flight, showing who was on the flight for the first time. Two names in particular might be of interest to investigators. The documents show that Khalil Binladin boarded in Orlando. According to the German wire service Deutsche Presse-Agentur, Khalil, who had business interests in the Brazilian state of Minas Gerais, had won the attention of Brazilian investigators because of his visits to the Minas Gerais capital, Belo Horizonte, which was allegedly a Hezbollah training center. Another passenger, Omar Awad bin Laden, a nephew of Osama’s, lived with his brother Abdullah, who was a key figure in forming the American branch of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth. Federal agents raided WAMY this spring. The FBI has described the group as a “suspected terrorist organization.” See the documents. (http://houseofbush.com/bush_saudi_files/919.php )

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. Clarke's approval for evacuating the Saudi's had been conditional .......

upon the FBI's vetting them. "I asked the FBI to make sure that no one inappropraite was leaving." he says"I asked them(the FBI) if they had any objections to Saudis leaving the country at a time when aircraft were banned from flying." Clarke adds that he assumed the FBI vetted the bin Ladens prior to September 11. "I have no idea if they did a good job," he says "I'm not in any position to second-guess the FBI."

But despite the evidence to the contary, FBI officials assert that the Bureau had no part in the Saudio evacuation. The Bureau played no role in facilitating these flights, according Special Agent John Iannarelli, the FBI's spokesman on counterterrorism activities.

bandar however went on CNN and said that the FBI played a critical role in the evacuation.(CNN Daybreak, March 19 2001)

On Thursday, September 13, 2001, Bandar met with President Bush in the White House where that night Bush and Bandar stood together out on the Truman Balcony where they lit cigars and enjoyed a smoke.

It is not known whether the two men talked about the evacuation at the time. In any case, the operation to begin flying out 140 Saudis had already been initiated by Bandar. According to Nail al-Jubeir, a spokesman for the Saudi embassy, the flights recieved approval from "the highest level of the U.S. government."(Bush)

A massive and elaborate operation to fly the Saudis out of the US was already under way. On 9/13 at about 4:30 that afternoon, Dan Grossi and manuel Perez, the two private detectives in Tampa, had already departed for Lexington, KY., in a Learjet, accompanying 3 young Saudi men-even though private aircraft were still banned from US skies. Sources familiar with the flight said that one of the men was a young Saudi royal. According to the Tampa Tribune, another was the son of a Saudi army commander. (Kathy Steele, Brenna Kelly, and Elizabeth Lee Brown, "Phantom Flight from Florida" Tampa Tribune, October 15, 2001) The third Saudi passenger has not been identified.

An hour and a half later they landed at Blue Grass Airport in lexington, Kentucky.