PLAME INDICTMENTS #13 High Crimes & Misdemeanors-"The Tip Of The Iceberg"

[Pallas180]

The Waterman Paper (as published on the Home Page of Democratic Underground July 24, 2004)

The Waterman Paper July 24, 2004
By H2O Man


This paper examines the possibility that Vice President Dick Cheney orchestrated the "leaking" of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity to the news media in the summer of 2003, in order to accomplish three goals.

These include (1) to punish Joseph Wilson for challenging "16 words" in President Bush's 1-28-03 State of the Union address; and (2) to intimidate other sources from publicly challenging the White House's version of events involving the "war on terrorism" and the US invasion of Iraq. Both of these goals are well-known from numerous reports on this White House scandal.

The other, (3) is that VP Cheney was attempting to derail an investigation that Plame may have been involved in at the time that her identity was exposed. This third potential goal has not been the subject of any major media attention.
The author of this paper put it forward on an internet forum, the Democratic Underground, in early July, 2004. The resulting eleven DU "threads," which consist of over 3,000 posts from interested citizens across the country, is the only known forum debating this theory.

Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04.

Time Line

While the case involving Wilson's investigation in Niger, and the White House's efforts to expose Plame is long and complicated, this paper will focus on a "time line" established by Wilson in his book.

1. Jan '02: The first reports of a Niger-Iraq uranium connection surface in the White House.

2. Feb '02: Wilson is asked to investigate by the CIA.

3. March '02: Wilson returns from Niger and briefs the CIA on the investigation. His conclusion supports those of two others that there was no Niger-Iraq connection.

4. Jan '03: Bush includes the "16 words" in his State of the Union address.

5. On or about March 5, '03: the CIA gives VP Cheney an oral report, informing him of Wilson's conclusions.

6. March 7, '03: the IAEA announces the US's documents on Niger-Iraq are forgeries.

7. March 8, '03: (a) a State Department spokesperson admits, "We fell for it" in regard to the forged document; (b) Wilson tells CNN that the State Department has more information on the subject; and (c) a workshop meeting is held in VP Cheney's office. It is attended by top republican officials, possibly including Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Newt Gingrich. The group discusses ways to discredit Wilson.

8. June 8, '03: Condoleeza Rice denies knowledge of the weakness of the Niger uranium claim on Meet The Press. She states, "Maybe someone down in the bowels of the Agency knew about this, but nobody in my circles."

9. July 6, '03: Wilson's NYT op-ed is published. By the following day, two senior White House officials began contacting at least six reporters, informing them of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative.

10. July 8, '03: Reporter Robert Novak tells a complete stranger on a Washington street: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him." In the following days, Novak would ask the CIA for confirmation of Plame's identity. He was asked not to print her name or identity in any article regarding Wilson.

11. July 14, '03: Novak's article exposes Plame.

12. July 20, '03: NBC's Andrea Mitchell tells Wilson that senior White House officials told her that the "real story" was not the 16 words, but was Wilson and his wife.

13. July 21, '03: NBC's Chris Matthews tells Wilson that Karl Rove called him and said," Wilson's wife is fair game." Matthews said he would confirm that if asked.

This time line indicates that while the exposing of Plame's identity was a result of Wilson's op-ed, it was also part of a larger strategy that had been planned in VP Cheney's office since March 8. It clearly confirms goal #1: by exposing Plame, and putting her safety at risk, the White House had severely punished Joseph Wilson.
It also supports goal #2: the White House had a strategy to intimidate any other potential intelligence operatives from exposing the administration for distorting information regarding Iraq.

Likewise, the exposing of Plame supports goal #3: exposing Plame put an immediate end to any activities that Plame was participating in at the time. This is supported by Wilson (pg 345): "She immediately began to prepare a checklist of things she needed to do to minimize the fall-out to the projects she was working on."

Also, Wilson notes: "Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives." (pg 13)

The Leakers' Identities

Robert Novak sourced his story to two senior White House officials. Other reporters, including Andrea Mitchell, made mention of the two unidentified senior White House officials. These two are among the at least six reporters contacted by these two officials.
Chris Matthew's call identifies Karl Rove as being involved in the efforts to make "Wilson's wife ... fair game." This call took place after the calls from the senior officials to the six reporters.
Wilson's book indicates a belief that the two senior officials were Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Eliot Abrams. Abrams is no stranger to White House disgrace, having been convicted on two charges during the Iran-Contra scandal.

There is evidence the three were operating with the knowledge of, and perhaps under the direction of VP Cheney. The March 8 "workshop" in VP Cheney's office indicates that this was a long-standing, well-organized effort to discredit Wilson. As Wilson notes (pg 387) : "... a plan to attack me had been formed before the moment. It was cocked and ready to fire .... an organized smear campaign directed from the highest reaches of the White House."

Cheney and Pre-War Intelligence

Those involved in the "workshop" to discredit Wilson were also active in efforts to influence pre-war intelligence reports. On page 6, Wilson discusses "leaks" that Cheney, Libby, and Newt Gingrich pressured the intelligence community "to skew intelligence analysists" to fit their own needs.

On page 338, Wilson notes that these three reportedly intimidated analysts by implying, "if you do a 'Wilson' on us, we will do worse to you."

Wilson notes (pg 434) that VP Cheney runs a "parallel national security office," which has no congressional oversight, and hence can "circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices."

As a result, as reported by Joe Klein in Time (7-5-04) "the intelligence community is at war with the White House." Klein notes that "multiple intelligence sources" indicated to him their belief that Cheny strong-armed out-going CIA Director George Tenet, to make him support Cheney and Rumsfeld's positions on Iraq.

Cheney, Niger, and Wilson's Trip

Wilson notes a report on a possible Niger-Iraq yellow cake uranium transaction had "aroused the interests of Vice President Dick Cheney." (pg 14) Cheney's office "had tasked the CIA to determine if there was any truth to the report." (pg 14)

It is clear that Cheney was aware of the Niger report, and had directed his office to have the CIA do an investigation of it. There is evidence that on March 5, the CIA gave VP Cheney an oral report on Wilson's findings. This was three days before the State Department spokesperson told the media, "We fell for it," and that Wilson told CNN that the State Department had more information on that subject. March 8 was also the day that the "workshop" to discredit Wilson was held in Cheney's office.

"What I Didn't Find" vs "16 Words"

The White House retracted President Bush's infamous 16 words immediately after Wilson's op-ed appeared in the New York Times.
On 7-13-03, Condi Rice told Fox News Sunday that, "It is ludicrous to suggest that the president of the United States went to war on the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from Africa."
On 7-14-03, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame's identity. It is important to recognize that Novak was aware that Plame was an operative who specialized in WMDs, and that he had been asked by the CIA not to reveal her identity, or even print her name, in an article on Wilson.

The White House continued to engage in efforts to discredit Wilson, including sending three identical e-mails of "talking points" to Keith Olbermann when Wilson was appearing on MSNBC's Countdown.
1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act

Wilson notes that the administration had already acknowledged the Niger-Iraq link was unsubstantiated, and that logically, they should have focused attention on how the 16 words made their way into the president's State of the Union address. The effort to expose Plame's identity made little sense. (pg 7)

Later, he continues with, "The White House gained nothing by publicizing Valerie's name..." (pg 7)
"Then it struck me that the attack by Rove and the administration on my wife had little to do with her, but a lot to do with others who might be tempted to speak out." (pgs 5-6)
"The decision of the president's people to come after me .... arose from no concerns over the emergence of secrets from my mission -- there weren't any." (pg 339)
"However offensive, there was a certain logic to it. If you have something to hide, one way to keep it secret is to threaten anyone who might expose it. But it was too late to silence me." (pg 338)


Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame

Wilson notes that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor, pointed out that since the Bush people had never backed down before, the fact that they had been "so quick to admit their error this time meant they must have something more important to protect." (pg 4)

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.
The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

Conclusions

This paper presents direct evidence that the intelligence group that operates out of VP Cheney's office orchestrated the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, in order to realize goal #1, the "punishing" of Joseph Wilson for publicly challenging President Bush.

It includes both direct and circumstantial evidence from sources including Wilson, Dean, Klein, and others, that indicates they also had goal #2 in mind: to intimidate any other potential sources that could challenge their reasons for invading Iraq, as well as other measures in their "war on terorism."

Yet these two goals alone do not explain why VP Cheney would (1) take part in a measure that would violate a federal law against exposing a CIA operative, or (2) risk a serious scandal for the Bush Administration.

The possibility that VP Cheney was hoping to derail a sting operation involving Valerie Plame, which is our identified goal #3, does explain why VP Cheney would condone the breaking of the federal law, and risk the most serious scandal that this administration faces.

Further research by an ad hoc DU "think tank" has identified possible connections between businesses connected to VP Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East. It is our belief that this theory and the evidence that supports it needs a more in-depth investigation.
At the time of publishing, the most recent message board thread on this subject can be found here:



PLAME INDICTMENTS - "HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS- THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG"


These links seem to work better if you open them in "Open In New Window"

Plame Indictments Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1902738

Plame Indictments Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1920799

Plame Indictments Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1933148&mesg_id=1933148

Plame Indictments Thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1946368

Plame Indictments Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1962806&mesg_id=1962806

Plame Indictments Thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1971177&mesg_id=1971177

Plame Indictments Thread 7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1987271&mesg_id=1987271&page=

Plame Indictments Thread 8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1999438&mesg_id=1999438

Plame Indictments Thread 9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2011088

Plame Indictments Thread 10
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2015582

Plame Indictments Thread 11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2023260

Plame Indictments Thread 12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2041061&mesg_id=2041061

[Pallas180]

1. SCENES FROM THE LAST EPISODE

.
64. robertpaulsen Waterman, this is EXCELLENT!

I appreciate the thoroughness of your research, especially with your timeline, which is very helpful in helping people understand the root of our research.

Today, I was perusing through several of the Plame threads thinking that I should do something similar to what you just did. Kind of a recap to send to people to say, "This is where my research has lead me so far. Would you please look deeper into this matter?"

The way The Waterman Paper is constructed is an excellent template for any other Plame Thread researcher who is considering compiling their own ideas to disseminate to the people who can help us in our investigation.

Thank you Waterman for blazing the trail!
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75. What I mean is...

All of the speculation and theories put forth by H@O Man have been answered in Lefthander's post...here:

"To go to war and win the big cash cow prize called war and oil revenue. Cheney needed excellent reasons to invade a country. The Niger Yellow Cake was one of those reasons....The Niger Yellow Cake was real. Almost. It was a sting set up by Plames group. And Cheney and the rest fell for it. Wilson probably had no knowlege of the sting . Cheney caught wind that the Niger yellow cake deal was going to surface. He sent a independant third party to investigate to find planted bogus documents to cast the light that the Yellow cake was not real. Even though it really was a sting. Thus Wilson. Wilson was the unwitting pawn in a sting by Plame and Cheney's coverup."

IOW...they are in consensus.

And what I mean is...We're back to square one with the same question..

Who in a high government position outed the CIA agent Plame?
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131. scottxyz (1000+ posts)
Tellurian's post is incorrect

Tellurian claims that "All of the speculation and theories put forth by H2O Man have been answered" and then goes on to quote an argument by Lefthander to the effect that "Cheney needed excellent reasons to invade a country. The Niger Yellow Cake was one of those reasons... Wilson was the unwitting pawn in a sting by Plame and Cheney's coverup."

This is totally incorrect. As we all know, the most exciting piece of "speculation" put forth by H2O Man is precisely the questions that go BEYOND the conventional wisdom about yellowcake, Niger and Iraq. H2O Man's speculations are MUCH more wide-ranging that mere yellowcake, Niger, and Iraq - and anyone (such as
Tellurian) who misses this has missed the main point of this massive series of threads.


H2O Man has speculated that Valerie Plame, as an undercover agent investigation WMD trading networks, may have been getting close to exposing sales of WMDs by Cheney/Halliburton to members of the "Axis of Evil."

This is an explosive speculation - an allegation of trading with the enemy no less, and then exposing a CIA
operative in an attempt to do a cover-up. But this speculation makes some sense: exposing an undercover CIA operative would bring down the biggest scandal on the Administration, but if Cheney was trying to cover-up an investigation into his own treason, then that might make it worth it.

Of course, this speculation is nowhere near proven yet - but the bits about Adeer Khan's nuclear Wal-Mart, and Halliburton's alleged illegal sales of WMDs to Iran are some of the pieces of evidence that support it.

It is quite disingenuous, to say the least, for Tellurian to claim that a post rehashing the conventional wisdom about Niger and Yellowcake and payback to Wilson has somehow "answered" the much more serious speculation H2O Man actually raised: speculation about Cheney trading with the enemy and then exposing a covert operative's cover in order to cover up his trading with the enemy. Quite to the contrary - the old Yellowcake/Payback theory does NOT answer the much more serious speculations raised by H2O Man -

H2O Man's speculations are MUCH more wide-ranging that mere yellowcake, Niger, and Iraq - and anyone (such as Tellurian) who misses this has missed the main point of this massive series of threads.

H2O Man has speculated that Valerie Plame, as an undercover agent investigation WMD trading networks, may have been getting close to exposing sales of WMDs by Cheney/Halliburton to members of the "Axis of Evil."

This is an explosive speculation - an allegation of trading with the enemy no less, and then exposing a CIA operative in an attempt to do a cover-up. But this speculation makes some sense: exposing an undercover CIA operative would bring down the biggest scandal on the Administration, but if Cheney was trying to cover-up an investigation into his own treason, then that might make it worth it.

Of course, this speculation is nowhere near proven yet - but the bits about Adeer Khan's nuclear Wal-Mart, and Halliburton's alleged illegal sales of WMDs to Iran are some of the pieces of evidence that support it.

It is quite disingenuous, to say the least, for Tellurian to claim that a post rehashing the conventional wisdom about Niger and Yellowcake and payback to Wilson has somehow "answered" the much more serious speculation H2O Man actually raised: speculation about Cheney trading with the enemy and then exposing a covert operative's cover in order to cover up his trading with the enemy. Quite to the contrary - the old Yellowcake/Payback theory does NOT answer the much more serious speculations raised by H2O Man -


*******************************************************************

115. Pallas180 (1000+ posts) H20 is right. When you start asking WHY, the motivation for their moves,
it answers so much.

Actually what we are doing is moving backwards from the "result"
to the "cause....reading their minds, their reasons for their
actions.

That WHY tends to get very revealing I think.


*******************************************************************

67.Tellurian H2O...Your third identified goal is impossible for you to investigate..

because you will never know what Plame's activities were and who her contacts were that would constitute enough of a threat to Cheney to out her under the guise of punishing her husband.

The only person who can accomplish a perfect fit to your allegations is Valerie Plame herself.. not you.

As I mentioned yesterday, these things take time. People have to be sent out into the field..Things have to be verified, documented, witnesses interviewed and deposed..and on and on.. <sheesh>

I'm sure she has received your information by now. Unfortunately, you seem to want instant results. A yes or no answer on the spot...Otherwise you are want to cry how you've been insulted and your trust violated by putting forth this idea and going unrewarded for your thoughtful thoughts. Are you afraid someone is stealing your ideas? Are you afraid someone is going to take credit for your theory?

I thought the important thing was getting enough evidence together to help Wilson..I mean what is your goal anyway?

*****************************************************************


80. Me. Why the need to be confrontational?

It can't add to the validity of your points if you deride those of others.


*********************************************************************



137. scottxyz (1000+ posts) Actually, the validity of many of your points IS in question, Tellurian


I find it quite ironic that you claim that the validity of your points are {sic} not in question - when your positions and points have been some of the most (subtly) contrarian on these threads. (I couldn't help rebutting many of Tellurian's most erroneous points in other posts within this thread. Tellurian's errors and omissions were so glaring, it was like shooting fish in a barrel.)

Or, perhaps "contrarian" isn't the right word. These threads themselves are presenting a contrarian viewpoint: that Cheney may have outed Plame to derail her investigation into his trading WMDs with the enemy.

You, Tellurian, are the contrarian within the contrarian thread, you are presenting the "conventional wisdom" which we can read in any of our trusty media outlets, namely: Not much to see here, just some payback for Wilson exposing Bush's phoney yellowcake claims.

Tellurian is the main voice trying to drown out the contrarian speculation in this thread and bring us all back to the boring conventional wisdom.

I have read most of these threads and I have found that the posts whose validity is precisely MOST EASILY called into question are none other than Tellurian's - who has, if I recall correctly, on several times made rather depressing, dead-end suggestions to the effect that we should abandon this novel and serious line of speculation, or that we're somehow back at square one, or that we should go and watch The Grid, or there's nothing new being discussed here. (Forgive me if these dreary suggestions were made by somone other than Tellurian - feel free to speak up and I will credit you other counter-contrarians!)

There is something VERY new being discussed here: the possibility that Cheney may have outed a CIA agent who may have been investigating his trading with the enemy. Many of Tellurian's posts have quite lamely attempted to quash this highly speculative but potentially rewarding line of inquiry - and for that reason their validity is indeed very much in question.


*******************************************************************


141.Scottxyz H2O Man's third point is NOT impossible to investigate

Tellurian takes the pessimistic view that for some reason ONLY Valerie Plame could have investigated H2O Man's third speculative point.

This is incorrect. H2O Man's third point simply heads in the direction of asking whether Cheney may have been trading WMDs with our enemies. If such trading were taking place, Plame, as a specialist in WMD trading networks, might have had some leads. But why does Tellurian go so far as to claim that ONLY Plame could have had any leads?

It is quite misleading for Tellurian to suggest that because Valerie Plame's status as an undercover operative has been revealed, the answer to this serious speculative question can never be known.

Is Tellurian cliaming to know that nobody else might be able to provide us with this information?

Is Tellurian quite certain that no contact of Adeer Khan perhaps, no disaffected employee of Halliburton, no member of one of a foreign government, no US or foreign intelligence operative might have gotten wind of such alleged trading with the enemy?

Wow, Tellurian must have an awful lot of contacts out there in the underground arms-dealing milieu, if he knows all that!

*********************************************************************


H20. 213. A Waterman Note: A Letter from a Region of my Mind


On Thursday, July 22, a contributor to the Plame Indictment Thread #12 posted a concern that I would like to examine closely. Tellurian noted that I am unabled to investigate and prove a theory that VP Dick Cheney may have played a significant role in exposing the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. The Waterman Paper, posted on 7-22, outlined a theory that VP Cheney may have manipulated events from behind the scenes in the White House, in order to derail an investigation that potentially threatened to expose some of Cheney's business deals.

Tellurian indicated that because I am not able to investigate, prove, or prosecute this theory, that it should not be advanced on the DU Plame Threads. Further, Tellurian noted that others could be embarassed if they repeated this unproven theory.

This note will attempt to address those concerns. First, I share Tellurian's concerns that it would be both irresponsible and reckless to advance wild charges against any public official, without having some direct and/or circumstantial evidence to build a proper foundation.

However, the "lack" of proof from the DU Plame Threads Think Tank should not be equated with a weakness in the theory. Nor should our perceived inability to "investigate" be reason to stop our efforts to pass this information on to other grass-roots political groups, to elected officials, and/or to other media sources.

In support of this position, I offer the following: In 2001, EPA director Christine Todd Whitman was attempting to prepare to participate in global discussions on regulating carbon dioxide emissions. Due to the significance of the Kyoto Protocol, CTW attempted to get advice from her boss, President Bush.

Frustrated by her inability to discuss this issue with the president, CTW instead had meetings with three other key officials: Andrew Card, Paul O'Neill, and Condoleeza Rice. They prepared a strategy based in part upon George Bush's campaign promises regard the threat to the environment from unregulated carbon dioxide emissions. Before meeting with the international community, EPA Director Whitman spoke about her positions on CNN's Crossfire.

Within days, four right-wing republicans (Chuck Hagel-Neb; Jesse Helms- S.C.; Larry Craig - Ida; and Pat Roberts- Kent) sent a letter to President Bush, demanding "clarification" on his position. The letter received significant publicity.

Furious, Whitman scheduled a meeting with President Bush. He did not allow her to speak at the meeting. Rather, he showed her a letter that he said was going to be the White House position, and then motioned her to leave.

On her way out, she noted VP Cheney was there to take the letter to the senators. A NYTs article would refer to this as, "the most immediate and visible loss of clout ever for a cabinet officer." ("Hostile Environment"; 8-19-01)

Paul O'Neill was sure that VP Cheney prompted and likely wrote the senators' letter to President Bush. Both O'Neill and Whitman were convinced Cheney wrote the letter that President Bush sent the senators.

These beliefs are found in two books: "The Price of Loyalty," by Ron Suskind (pgs 102-122) and "Crimes Against Nature," by Robert Kennedy, Jr, (pgs 50-52).

I do not consider it either weak or reckless for O'Neill to have discussed his beliefs about the underhanded, controlling, vicious, and pro-business actions of VP Cheney. I do not think he embarassed himself.

I think that DU Plame Threads participants may notice a pattern in the behaviors attributed to VP Cheney by a wide range of people.

H2O Man


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103. Kohodog- Patterns of Behavior-Two Articles on Cheney/Haliburton

From the Independent, via Common Dreams

Grand Jury Probes Cheney's Role in 'Illegal' Iran Trade
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0722-03.htm

Cheney Lobbied Congress To Ease Sanctions Against Terrorist Countries While He Was CEO Of Halliburton
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0722-02.htm

[kohodog]

3. Good Morning Pallas

Something happened to your post...nithing there.

:hi:

[Pallas180]

5. Good Morning, you giant brain think tanks!

I must say it just took me 2 hours and 45 minutes to transplant
all those posts to "Scenes from the Last Episode".

H20 is going to have to buy me a lobster dinner and the mate
is banging around in the kitchen. I think H20 is going to have to
buy him 2 or 3 grey goose vodka martinis before he'll calm down.

Gotta go for now - there's a rebellion going on in my own household
which I need to take care of. LOL. :) Big grin.

[Pallas180]

6. RobertPaulsen or KOHO, would you please

post the 5 or 6 theories Robert posted from the previous thread
on this one below.

And also Calimary's free 800 toll number to the Senate, but not
the listings of contacts to the Congress. They don't seem to work

If one of you can post a general Senate.house.gov site for people
to contact, I think we would all really be appreciative.

Thanks - see ya later. :hi:

[calimary]

39. Here's the simplest:

1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE TO CAPITOL HILL (it's always in my sig line, too), and www.congress.org - for a directory to ANYBODY on the Hill, AND their local/regional offices.

[Pallas180]

42. Great CALIMARY. Thanks once again for that free phone #

1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE TO CAPITOL HILL


and

www.congress.org - for a directory to ANYBODY on the Hill, AND their local/regional offices.





:hi:

[Beam Me Up]

7. Plame-Indictments Threads in MS Word format (easier download)

All 12 can be found here as MSWord ".doc"s:

http://www.aeschatech.com/dumpster/plame/

[Beam Me Up]

8. Does anyone have the PDF FILES??

For a time another DUer was putting these threads in PDF format, both as text and as archives--the latter kept all the external links to documentation within the files in tact (which the MSWord documents do not). I intended to mirror these files but they became unavailable before I could do so. If anyone has these files, or, better yet, if anyone can create them from the originals, please let me know. I'll find somewhere to host them.

Please private me.

Thank you!

BMU

[Pallas180]

15. Thanks Beam Me Up.

:hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I felt this paper was so good

and had such important news that I emailed the link to many folks, including our local peace group.

I really think that Reason #3 has more to do with things than most people have thought about. Sure, it was 'fun' to out Plame so as to punish Wilson and stifle dissent, but I'm thinking that protecting corporate interests is the top of the Cheney agenda.

[Pallas180]

27. Hi Ayesha. That's great. People need to know what has taken over

our government.

[wolfgirl]

4. Another theory

to explain the Admin's actions - they are so damn arrogant they thought they could get away with it...like Clinton admitted, no reason for his actions (re: Monica) except he knew he could do it.

That would be the worse scenario in my mind. Not that the others aren't despicable.

[Pallas180]

28. Wolfgirl, could be, but these are into money & power bigtime.

:hi:

[TacticalPeek]

9. David Corn asks his own 'why?' about the Get Wilson Gang.

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/19328

The Get-Wilson Crusade

By David Corn, The Nation. Posted July 23, 2004.


Want to know why the conservatives are going after Joe Wilson? Just read the Wall Street Journal.

So this is what the campaign against former ambassador Joseph Wilson is about? In a long editorial yesterday, the hawks of The Wall Street Journal called for Patrick Fitzgerald, the US attorney investigating the Bush administration leak that identified Wilson's wife as a CIA officer, to "fold up his tent." The goal of the WSJ conservatives - and perhaps that of the other GOPers who have been bashing Wilson - is to get the Bush White House off the hook for the leak that outed Valerie Wilson (nee Plame).


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2052764



David Corn is on a run of excellent work in this matter, and at personal risk of becoming a hero, IMHO.

[Me.]

10. Has Anyone Sent The Waterman Paper to the Kerry Campaign?

According to this Yahoo article the Kerry people have a one word answer to everything the *ushies say and that word is Haliburton

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1803&e=8&u=/washpost/20040720/pl_washpost/a62623_2004jul19

[Me.]

11. Wofowitz & Perle Are Being Invetigated by the FBI

From over at DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2055906

[RebelYell]

14. All the current administration needs

is a good stiff breeze to blow them out of the water. I hope that story makes the light of day.

[Pallas180]

22. Me. Now that's a REALLY interesting development...hmmm

things are breaking open aren't they?

[kohodog]

45. Is that about the Chalabi/Iran connection?

I forgot about that one...But classsified info was leaked to Iran through Chalabi if I remember. I remember talk of an investigation...but something else must have diverted my attention. They're pretty good at that, eh?

Thanks Me for mentioningt it.

[Pallas180]

21. Hi ME. I thought of it, but couldn't figure out a contact..they have

lots of letters coming to my email box asking for various things,
but nothing with an e mail back.

Maybe the best would be to send to his DC office and Boston
rep office.

And how about Senator Kennedy too.

And Senator Edwards offices too.

[Pallas180]

16. TACTICAL -R U telling me the "Corporations" , Cheney's buddies are orderin

a US Attorney to stop digging?

Oops. And what do they have to hide?

[snippy]

12. I think that if goal #3 was a factor the CIA would have leaked that fact.

In part because the CIA hasn't been hesitant to leak information about this matter. Of course, if H20 Man IS leaking for the CIA, I obviously am wrong. But I think the main reason to reveal Plame's status was just part of the broad strategy to conceal the criminal strategy of the Bush administration to market the invasion of Iraq through an endless series of lies.

There was a conscious and deliberate decision made in the Bush administration to base the invasion of Iraq on a series of lies. Cheney has had wet dreams about invading Iraq for years. So did all of the rest of PNAC. In February 2001, Cheney had Bush instruct the participants at Bush's first National Security Council meeting to find a rationale for invading Iraq. Immediately after the attacks of September 11, several people in the administration talked about using the attacks as a reason to invade Iraq. Bush and the rest of his administration began publicly lying about the plan to invade Iraq shortly thereafter.

In early 2002, neither the public nor the republican party was very enthusiastic about invading Iraq. So Bush kept lying about his intention to invade, even as the planning for the invasion was being done. Then the White House Iraq Group ("WHIG") was formed in the summer of 2002 to market the invasion and devise ways for the republican party to benefit from the invasion and the debate preceeding it. All of the lies surrounding the invasion of Iraq, including the Niger-uranium lies, were developed and coordinated by the WHIG.

Here is an excellent article about the WHIG. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A39500-2003Aug9

Here is a longer post about the WHIG involvement in the Plame affair. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=142863#142952

[Pallas180]

18. Mr. Waterman aka H20 is a published author on other subjects

far removed from anything like this.

For those of you who think there's some great mystery.

I wouldn't doubt there are all "kinds" reading these threads,
attached to government, but Mr. Waterman is not one
of them.


For that matter, as has been repeated here, and as has been
posted by "Democratic Underground" site itself in the rules, there are certain things that may be posted and certain things that it would not be wise or permissible to post.

We might all keep that in mind.

[Pallas180]

19. "If goal #3 was a factor "the CIA would have leaked the fact" ahem -

there is an ongoing criminal investigation of Cheney/Halliburton's
business practices outside of this country - so somebody must have
leaked something.

Duh.

[snippy]

38. The CIA has leaked quite a bit about the Bush administration. n/t

[RebelYell]

13. I sent the paper to Greg Palast

But I'm unable to find a contact email for David Corn. I went to The Nation website and his personal website and there's no email!

I'll keep looking.

Congrats, H2O, on making the front page!

[Pallas180]

20. Great Reb. You always seem to get through. You have to give

the rest of us your secret! :)

:hi:

[daria_g]

43. did you try

dcorn at thenation.com? That's the one listed here -

http://www.thenation.com/directory/bios/bio.mhtml?id=48

[RebelYell]

80. Thanks, daria_g.......

Paper sent today to him

[loudsue]

17. Relevant to the Plame thread, and the Sibel Edmonds story....

There's a great thread here on GD about Henry Kissinger.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2053861

I'm copying my post from that thread here:

loudsue (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-24-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message

21. Dynamite work, Octafish!!! Thanks!!


Great thread!

Kissinger is, without a doubt, the global "follow the money" end game. He is a blight on the peace-loving, family-loving people of the world, in favor of all that is greedy, slimy, obscenely rich and drunk with power.

This world would be A FAR BETTER PLACE if Kissinger got Wellstoned, or just moved on of natural causes. He and his helpers are the power brokers for globalization, and impending enslavement of honest workers around the world, being subordinated by a capitalist/corporatist oligarchy.

There is no dictator repugnant enough that Kissinger won't put him in office, for the goal of privatizing governments. He's far more than a war criminal. He's Satan's right hand.

_______________________


When we're looking at Cheney/Halliburton, we also need to look at the bush I & II administration's snuggly relationship with Kissinger and his demonic helpers: they are the "brokers", brokering arms/oil deals with governments of every stripe....they're the guys that help get Halliburton/Carlyle the $$.

They've been doing this since Nixon, and are only more well-connected every day to despots world-wide.

Sibel Edmonds connected all this, and she KNOWS who the players are. That's why she's been muzzled.

Here's Sibel Edmonds article:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/s-edmonds.php?articleid=3151

<snip>

"This puzzles me, having firsthand knowledge of ongoing intelligence received and processed by the FBI since 1997, which contained specific information implicating certain high level government and elected officials in criminal activities directly and indirectly related to terrorist money laundering, narcotics, and illegal arms sales. It is highly curious that the report omitted all this information, knowing that others in the Congress have been briefed on these issues and have been given the names of targets involved, special agents, translators, field offices, and files. I am highly puzzled and curious.

After the many public hearing shows, in which the Commissioners very skillfully played their good cop/bad cop routine and displayed their lifelong mastery of the political art of saying but not saying, and asking but not asking, all parties and all agencies have readily accepted this report. The president apparently considered the report rosy and appropriately symbolized its presentation in his rose garden. The previous administration sighed with relief, having scored a negative 4, compared to the current administration's negative 6, in the blame game. Notorious Attorney General John Ashcroft left his over-secrecy and classification guns in their holsters. In fact, this report ended up being blessed by all those responsible for our nation's security and interests, which were severely violated on September 11. I, for one, am highly puzzled and curious. How about you?"

<snip>


comments on this article?
send them to backtalk!

Back to the Antiwar.com Home Page






Archives

The Puzzling 9/11 Report
7/24/2004

Our Broken System
7/9/2004

Gagging Congress
5/21/2004

Sibel Edmonds began working for the FBI shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks. Until the spring of 2002 she worked in the FBI's Washington field office translating top-secret documents pertaining to suspected terrorists. She first gained wide public attention in October of that year when she appeared on '60 Minutes' on CBS and charged that the FBI, State Department, and Pentagon had been infiltrated by agents of a Turkish intelligence officer suspected of ties to terrorism. She also accused members of the FBI's translation services of sabotage, intimidation, corruption and incompetence. On October 18, 2002, at the request of FBI Director Robert Mueller, Attorney General Ashcroft imposed a gag order on Ms. Edmonds, citing possible damage to diplomatic relations or national security.

:kick::kick::kick:

[shraby]

23. The Present Danger, Neocons attempt a comeback

The newly reconstituted Committee on the Present Danger (CPD), the War Party's latest high-profile front group, is off to a rocky start. In the face of incoming fire from independent journalist Laura Rozen, what the CPD's founders characterize as "an army of citizens" was forced into an ignominious retreat on the first day of its official reincarnation, as its managing director, Peter Hannaford, was forced to step down.

(snip)

The third incarnation of the CPD – shall we call it CPD-3? – resurrects all the familiar rhetoric, and even many of CPD-2's original personnel, although no survivors from CPD-1 have been unearthed. Under the nominal leadership of Senators John Kyl and Joe Lieberman, this latest effort to revive the flagging spirits of the War Party claims to be bipartisan, but is heavily weighted toward the Republicans, reflecting the radical role reversal effected in the last fifty years. The neocons may have long since moved their base of operations into the GOP, but that doesn't mean they feel any partisan loyalty, or even allegiance to George W. Bush: both Kyl and Lieberman have declared their intent to build a "bipartisan" "citizens' army" to "win the war on terrorism" – and keep the pressure on the president, whomever that might be, to "stay the course" and not try to sneak out of Iraq by the back door.

At a mid-June symposium co-sponsored and paid for by the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD), Lieberman set the tone for the occasion in his keynote address:

"The terrorists can never defeat us militarily. But they can divide us and defeat us politically if the American people become disappointed and disengaged, because they don't appreciate and support the overriding principles that require us to take military action. The same, of course, is true for our allies in Europe, Asia and throughout the Muslim world. They need to better understand and embrace our purpose and what it means for them

(more)

<http://antiwar.com/justin/>

hmmmmmmmm

[Pallas180]

31. Schraby-I doubt Lieberman would get re-elected this time with the

people he's hanging out with.

It's a shame, because that will leave the seat open to another
thuglican.

I hope he retires (doubtful) or some other democrat runs against
him. He's an embarrassment and a hindrance. IMHO

[shraby]

34. It looks to me like he's not

only an embarrassment and hindrance, but also collaborating with people who are trying their best to bring America down by subversive means.

[Pallas180]

36. Schraby-Lieberman and his ilk seem to forget they are Americans First

and give a whole nationality a bad name, although the Liebermans
are sincere, stupid and duped IMHO, but sincere.

The others aim (purportedly in the WH) is to help Israel, or
rather that's their excuse.

Don't believe it for a minute.

Israel aint got no oil. :)

Don;t ever forget what James Baker 111 said in the family campaigns
"F- -k the Jews, they never vote for us anyway" and we know the
dimson family lawyer and former Sec of State represents Saudi Arabia.

Are we to think all of a sudden the dimson group has found a deep
fondness for all things Jewish? Naaaah. I don't think soooo.

Israel, I repeat, aint got no oil.

:)

[kohodog]

40. Lieberman has no competition...yet

Connecticut is a divided state, but more liberal/dem than republican. the support you saw was because everyone loves a favorite son (ie a vp from your State), but there are no challengers on the horizon. Some of us see him as another Zell Miller.

[Pallas180]

41. KOHO You have a great Attorney General in Ct-is he dem?

cause if he was a dem, he'd probably be a fantastic candidate.

[kohodog]

66. Blumenthal is a Dem,

Reportedly he didn't run for Governor because he has his eyes on the Senate. He's done a lot environmentally and been good on many other issues (Enron, etc), but it will be tough to unseat Lieberman. the incumbent thing.

[SilasSoule]

24. Tip of the Iceberg indeed!!!!

[Pallas180]

29. Silas Sue - nice picture..thanks :)

:hi:

[Pallas180]

25. Coincidence?on cable:movies about Bradley tank costing 14 Billion &

another about an energy formula the scientist decides to give
to the world for free.

Then the question I thought : Why isn't energy free?

Apparently HBO hasn't been bought by "the" corporations yet.

[Pallas180]

26. a kick for the Constitution

:kick:

[hedda_foil]

30. And another for the Declaration of Indepence.

[skip fox]

32. Speculation in prev. DU thread: But motive was different!!!

This is a repost and contains decent (but not as good as above) information. The one major difference with this is the suggestion that the motive was one no one else mentions: To discredit Wilson!!!! (The logic: Cheney/Libby figure they can suggest that Valerie Plame HAD her husband sent to Niger as a political set-up designed to discredit Bush. So they try to discredit Wilson, implying he was not only predisposed to find no Niger connection but that he wanted to undercut Bush'd war against Iraq and possibly avoid the war. Now isn't this what we've seen OVER AND OVER??? DISCREDIT THE MESSENGER!!! . . . . Looking at discrediting as the prime motive might make a major difference in the investigation, and will certainly have a different political impact if it does point to Cheney/Libby.) Herewith the earlier post:


Reports originally said (erroneously, as it turned out) that Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of the Vice-President's Office. Who would Novak have called first in those days following Wilson's July 6, 2003 Op-Ed in _The NY Times_? The Office of the Vice-President, naturally.

Immediately after his July 6 op-ed in the _New York Times_, Joseph C. Wilson was thought to have been sent to Niger in February of 2002 at the behest of the Vice President (later vigorously denied by Dick Cheney, September 14 th on Meet the Press, see link #1, below). (This misunderstanding may have arisen from a clumsy reading of Wilson's Op-Ed, in which he wrote that he "was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report." and "The vice president's office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer." See quotations in next paragraph that indicate mistaken in early July that Wilson was sent directly at behest of Cheney.) Robert Novak, _Chicago Sun Times_ columnist and televison commentator, by his own admission "was curious why a high-ranking official in President Bill Clinton's National Security Council was given this assignment" (link #5). Those are the facts. From those facts, can we deduce who Novak would have called first? The Vice-President's office, of course.

Some proof of misconception in second week of July 2003 that VP sent Wilson: Ray McGovern reflects this misconception in a July 14 open memorandum to Bush: "There is just too much evidence that Ambassador Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of Vice President Cheney's office, and that Wilson's findings were duly reported not only to that office but to others as well." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4107.htm . As does Will Pitt when he writes on July 11: "Wilson was dispatched in February of 2002 at the behest of Dick Cheney to investigate the veracity of the Niger evidence." http://www.agitprop.org.au/nowar/20030711_pitt_bush_you_are_a_liar.htm . Ian Macpherson writes, similarly, "Now it appears that Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of none other than Vice President Cheney's department" http://www.netnacs.com/downunder/archive/du-0026.htm . Steve Perry continues the error even at the end of the month: "It was Wilson who traveled to Africa in 2002 at Dick Cheney's behest" http://babelogue.citypages.com:8080/sperry/stories/storyReader$517 .

So . . . Novak would have called Cheney or, more likely, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Cheney's Chief-of-Staff (or, perhaps a staff member directly below Scooter). To find out "why a high-ranking official in President Bill Clinton's National Security Council was given this assignment," Novak would have gone to the presumptive "assigner."

How would the conversation have gone (using Scooter Libby as the contact)? They would talked about Wilson's editorial, why the State-of-the-Union Speech referred to Nigerian yellow-cake uranium and why Powell didn't mention it at the UN, and how Cheney had never sent Wilson on any mission. Then Scooter explains, telling Novak that Cheney, the previous winter (Feb. 2002) had asked the CIA to look into the reports of uranium sales to Iraq from Niger and that it was the CIA at the VP's behest who had sent Wilson. Then Scooter lets it drop, "Well, did you know Wilson's wife works for the Company? Let's see . . . yeah, right Valerie Plame. Word is that she was the one who had him sent to Niger." Novak's ears perk up (all he hears is "nepotism," missing the real insinuation: that Wilson put his wife up to having him sent because he had an anti-War agenda or because he was anti-administration and wanted to put the breaks on the early momentum toward the Iraqi war). Novak checks spelling ("P-L-A-M-E"), thanks Scooter, hangs up. Checks second source, etc.

It's important to realize the purpose was to discredit Wilson as a maverick-with-an-agenda, getting his wife to send him on a mission the results of which would undercut Bush's designs on Iraq.

Paul Krugman, as he so often does, gets to the marrow: "both the columnist Robert Novak and Time magazine say that administration officials told them that they believed that Mr. Wilson had been chosen through the influence of his wife, whom they identified as a C.I.A. operative."
( http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg47823.html ) The purpose, therefore, was NOT revenge, NOR punishment, but to undercut Wilson's credibility. (To be fair, Krugman later, inexplicability concludes: "So why would they do such a thing? Partly, perhaps, to punish Mr. Wilson, but also to send a message.") IN the July 22 Newsday item (see link in Timeline) Wilson also admits to befuddlement: "They were aware of who she was married to, which is not surprising," he said. "There are people elsewhere in government who are trying to make her look like she was the one who was cooking this up, for some reason," he said. "I can't figure out what it could be."

Given the circumstance of the following summer (2003) when everyone was questioning the existence of WMDs, considering that someone who had investigated one of the claims Bush made in his State-of-the-Union Speech just undercut him in a July 6 NY Times op-ed piece, Scooter's plant was artful and effective, despite Novak's dull-witted interpretation (nepotism). It was clever about crushing anyone (Libby is more circumspect and pragmatic than Rove). The purpose was not primarily to inflict revenge upon Wilson, nor was it necessarily a warning to others who might take similar public stands, but to undercut an opponent who had momentarily risen in their midst. Bloodlessly, swiftly.

I know that if the purpose of the leak was revenge or a warning to others, the political damage to the administration would be worse. Since no one is likely to go to jail since bar for conviction under the operant law is rather high, all we can hope for is political damage. But mistaking the motive may well lead us in the wrong direction and allow the entire story to gradually dissipate in the short-shelf life of public attention. As it is, the administration will have to account for a coordinated attempt (2 leakers) to discredit a man who has ably served five administrations and was even labeled "courageous" by George Walker Bush. Perhaps those charged will tell investigators who else was in on the meetings where the strategy to discredit Wilson was hatched. (It was certainly coordinated and continuous, as attested to by the July 17 and 22 similar stories in Time and Newsweek–see timeline, below) Perhaps not.




TIMELINE:


(More detailed and much fuller timelines, distracting for our purpose, can be found at: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/US/uranium030714_timeline.html and http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=niger_timeline )

ca. 2001

Wilson: "I was invited out to meet with a group of people at the CIA who were interested in this subject. None I knew more than casually. They asked me about my understanding of the uranium business and my familiarity with the people in the Niger government at the time. And they asked, 'what would you do?' We gamed it out--what I would be looking for. Nothing was concluded at that time. I told them if they wanted me to go to Niger I would clear my schedule. Then they got back to me and said, 'yes, we want you to go'" (qtd. in link #2).

2002

February: Joseph C. Wilson is sent to Niger to investigate rumors of sales of yellow-cake uranium to Iraq. His trip lasts eight days: "drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people: current government officials, former government officials, people associated with the country's uranium business. It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place" (from NY Times, 6 July 2003, qtd. in http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/cia-gate.htm ).

March 9: "CIA reportedly sends cable that does not name Wilson but says Nigerien officials denied the allegations," according to ABC News: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/US/uranium030714_timeline.html

2003

January 28: George W. Bush's State of the Union Address.

June 12: Walter Pincus reports in the _The Washington Post_ that an unnamed retired diplomat had given the CIA a negative report concerning uranium sales from Niger to Iraq. ( http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Bush-Iraqi-Uranium-Forged12jun03.htm )

July 6: Joseph Wilson publishes his Op-Ed in _The New York Times_ , criticizing the administration for allowing Bush to make the Niger-uranium claim in the State of the Union Address. (Link #4 for the Op-Ed.) Richard Leiby and Walter Pincus write an article discussing Wilson's work in Niger and quoting his unfavorable administration comments: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/135174809_intel06.html

July 13: Robert Novak publishes his column in _The Chicago Sun-Times_ in which Valerie Plame is identified as a CIA agent. Novak writes: "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me his wife suggested sending Wilson to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him" (qtd. in link #3).

July 17: Time magazine publishes the same basic story, also attributing it to "government officials."

July 22, Newsday also confirms "that Valerie Plame ... works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity." Link:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/iraq/ny-uscia0722,0,6160519.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

Sept. 14: Dick Cheney on Meet the Press denies knowing Wilson and seemingly goes out of his way to say "I don't know Mr. Wilson. I probably shouldn't judge him. I have no idea wh hired him and it never came..." Russert interposes: "The CIA did." And Cheney responds, "Who in the CIA, I don't know." (Link #3) (Why is Cheney going out of his way to volunteer this information? Wilson seems similarly perplexed; in an interview with Ann Goodman, also in link #3, after Goodman says "He (Cheney) also said that he didn't know who had sent you, raising questions about the whole legitimacy of your mission to Niger," Wilson says, "I heard that. I don't know what the Vice President was trying to get at in that. )

Oct. 1: Robert Novak publishes his column in _The Chicago Sun-Times_ recounting the entire story from his vantage. (Link #5)



* * * * * * Laws * * * * *

1917: Espionage Act (thrice amended since).

1982: The Intelligence Identities and Protection Act

Both are discussed by John Dean at http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html




* * * * * * Links * * * * *


Link #1: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/16/1555209
Link #2: http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823
Link #3: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/16/1555209
Link #4: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm
or http://truthout.org/docs_03/100203B.shtml
Link #5: http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak01.html



* * * * * Bibliographies * * * * *

http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/cia-gate.htm (a bibliog. of articles criticizing the admin.)

[Pallas180]

35. Hi SKIP FOX. one assertion doesn't fit tho. Wilson was from Bush1

administration and much trusted by the elder Bush. Cheney would
have had knowledge of Wilson from his days as Secretary of Defense
under Bush 1. Wilson was an advisor to Bush1 - so characterizing
him as "why would they have called a leftover from the Clinton
administration" doesn't really fit.

Furthermore, Cheney both through his years with Bush 1, and his
top secret clearance back then and currently, well knew Plame's
job.

Our theory is, as is reported in numerous places, Cheney was back and forth to CIA HQ numerous times. His topic was WMD. Find a reason
to say there are WMD in Iraq. That is thought to be Valerie
Plame's covert position - illegal and/or blackmarket WMD tracker,

Certainly Cheney would have been advised of her position and gone
to her "desk" with his clearance. Let's suppose she advised
Robert G. Joseph, who had worked with her previously at CIA but who
was now in the inner circle of the neo-cons, and/or Cheney directly
what she was working on.

Red flag goes up.

Then H20's and Dean's reports of meetings of the neo-cons picks up the story from there.

If Cheney Halliburton have sold countries on the unsanctioned list,
which we know they have in the case of Libya, and for which they were
fined 2.1 million $, and for which they are being investigated now in
relation to Swiss Bank accounts and Bribes, he would have an excellent reason to "de-rail" her investigation by leaking her name,
and endangering everyone in every foreign country who had worked with her; thus shutting down the entire WMD sting operation.

I think if we look at your theory, we have to say Dick Cheney is not
a cold and calculating man, but just clumsy and stupid when bent on
revenge.

He doesn't strike me as a clumsy and stupid businessman, or a person
who doesn't know revenge is a dish best served cold.

What tripped him up was underlings Rove and whomever Rove and/or Cheney gave the job to the press.

[skip fox]

33. Palla180 . . . This is very good work, th ekind DU used to be famous for .

Maybe you should post it in Editorials a few times over the next several months (til Nov.). That way, it stays on the first page longer and a reporter scooting through may see it and begin asking questions . . .

[Pallas180]

37. SKIP, feel free to send it around. Waterman will like that I'm sure.

:hi:

[Occulus]

49. Pallas, about that idea I floated to you

about a flowchart... well, looking over these threads, there's just too much information for it to fit on a single chart! What I'd really need is a comprehensive summary of everything we've discussed. A software solution would be nice, but... good Lord, how on Earth should I start?!?

I think I'm going to need some help with that one. Ooh, a hyperlinked flowchart would be even better, but like I said, I haven't the slightest idea where to start. Center of the page: Wilson/Plame or Bush/Cheney, for example?

Or would they go on top?

[SilasSoule]

44. Sunday Morning Kick

I'm really keeping on eye on these threads now.

[H2O Man]

46. The Revolutionary Presidency vs The Bill of Rights

1) Introduction

This paper will examine the dangers to constitutional democracy posed by the Bush Administration. It will review the concepts of separation of federal powers, the practice of the balancing of those powers, and scrutinize several areas where Bush/Cheney have corrupted this constitutional system that our democracy is based upon.

This paper will focus primarily on how the growing menace of an Imperial Presidency of the Nixon era has become the threatening reality of the Revolutionary Presidency today.

2) The Balance of Powers

A- The theories behind the constitutional democracy of the United States are the "distinctive American contribution(s) to the art of government." (The Imperial Presidency; Schelsinger; pg vii)

The idea of the 13 Colonies forming a confederate federal state came directly from meetings between Founding Fathers, primarily Ben Franklin, and the Grand Council of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. Jefferson was influenced by the Iroquois' concepts of the freedoms of individuals; these, along with the contributions of progressive European thought (found primarily in France), led to the Bill of Rights.

However, in European history, governments had assumed a unified authority that allowed them to control, and deny, basic human rights to citizens of the state. Jefferson and Madison and others created the more perfect union, which allowed citizens to control the government through a series of checks and balances implied in the separation of powers on the federal level.

B- The three branches of the federal government are the executive, legislative, and judiciary. These three are intended to form a balanced triangle. The separation of powers is not intended to make all three to be locked into an equal status; rather, it offers checks and balances that creates an inertia that keeps any one branch from assuming unlimited powers. The goal, according to Justice Brandis (Myers v US 1926) is "not to promote efficiency, but to preclude the exercise of arbitrary power."

The executive, or the office of the president, has the implied power to provide leadership in emergency situations. In our early history, from the Revolutionary to the Civil War, this power was used only to respond to threats to the safety of citizens ( re: pirate attacks, which generally came from Tripoli, and which share important parallels with today's situation) and wars with foreign nations.

In these cases, these emergency powers were onlyintended for a brief period, before congressional controls took over. The Senate is the seat of the actual war powers. Further, according to Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, "The House of Representatives ... forms the grand inquest of the state. They will dilegently inquire into grievences, arising both from men and things." (Grand Inquest; New York; 1961; pgs 22-30)

C- The history of democracy has been imperfect in the United States. The most basic rights have been denied to both groups and individuals, based upon their sex, age, race, and religion. Issues including gay marriage show that we still have a long way to go.

Yet, for all of its faults, our constitutional democracy has shown the greatest of promise. The efforts of each generation of Americans has brought us closer to providing the rights of free people to a larger, more inclusive population. This is a great nation.

From the Revolutionary to the Civil War was known as the "Golden Age" of the congress.Also, the sequence of presidents, and the series of federal courts moved the nation towards the promise of the Founding Fathers, found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The reasons were found not only in those great documents, but in that separation and balance of powers at the federal level. These insured the Bill of Rights was a living entity. In fact, while many today note that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil war, there "was no effective censorship, no Sedition Act, no Espiionage Act." (Schlesinger; pg 335)

However, after the Civil War, changes in the economy which were a result of the change from an agrarian to industrial national base, led directly to unprecedented influence of business on the national politics. This new level of extreme corruption led Mark Twain to refer to the phenomenon as the "Gilded Age" of politics.

It is important to note that all of industry would be connected, either directly or indirectly, to the production of oil. By 1870, all of the economies of the industrialized nations were based on oil. The significance of this is explored in greater detail in the book, "Farewell America."

D- Business interest rapidly became central to the decision-making processes of (1) citizens electing officials to the legislative and executive branches; and (2) the domestic and foreign policies of those elected officials in both branches. While the federal courts are defined as the branch that is supposed to "do the least harm to democracy," the changes in the executive and legislative branches created changes in the judiciary, just as surely as the pulling of two sides of a triangular mobile suspende above the crib of democracy.

Thus: (1) the president begins to increasingly dominate the legislative process; (2) the congress increasingly delegates its authority to the president; and (3) the federal courts tend to become "activist" to offset congressional impotence. And despite the best of intentions, and while acknowledging the value of many progressive decisions, the federal courts should not be "activist," as the dangers posed by current federal courts demonstrate.

3) Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The deteriorative influences of business interests on the separation of federal powers accelerated during WW2. If we examine the relationship of the competition of the world economy on American political life, we can note a progression in the executive branch (including FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, & LBJ) moving towards the Imperial Presidency of the Nixon Era. The two areas where this threat to our constitutional democracy were concentrated were (a) the war powers, and (b) secrecy. (Schlesinger)

The history of the war powers in terms of the president responding to a threat to the nation's security evolved significantly after WW2. This was due to the influence of the military industrial complex. All American foreign policy, with the exception of some initial attempts by JFK which ended on 11-22-1963, equated the access to foreign resources with national security, and domestic security with bureaucratic secrecy.

This was in opposition to the 64th Federalist Paper, in which John Jay interpreted the Constitution to recognize but two needs for federal secrecy: (1) diplomatic negotiations, and (2) intelligence.

Democracy by its very nature demands the disclosure of information by all three branches of government. Even among the widely varying opinions of the Founding Fathers, there was complete agreement that the free diffusion of information was vital to insure a stable federal government.

Yet as the executive branch created an elastic definition of "national security," the presidents began a more undemocratic relationship with the bureaucracies of the military indistrial complex. And the instinct of bureaucracy is "to increase the superiority of the professionally informed by keeping their knowledge and intentions secret." (Max Weber: Essays in Sociology; Grath & Mills; New York; 1946)

4) External Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The external threats to the USA from WW2 to the prsent tend to fit into three groups: the Nazi/ Axis powers; the communist menace; and the Islamic terrorist/"axis of evil" group of today. With the exceptions of Pearl Harbor and 9-11, all defined threats to our national interest tended to be defined as occuring in other countries, either to American business interests, or to trading partners. The cultural implications of Pearl Harbor and 9-11 are obvious.

Another external threat to our national security has become known to a large segment of our population through a cultural phenomenon, Michael Moore's movie "F 9-11." The threat is posed by foreign investments going beyond a few acres of land, or shares in a corporate stock. F 9-11 demonstrates clearly that a significant segment of our economy is controlled by foreign governments. One, for example, is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royal family shows no appreciation for constitutional democracy.

Moore's movie demonstrates that the Saudi royal family is able to compromise the balance of powers in our federal government. Their influence with the Bush administration has stopped a serious investigation into what role they played in the 9-11 attack on the USA; allows them to manipulate what information becomes known to the American public; and interferes with the legal system, when James Baker represents the Saudis in a court action filed by the families of 9-11 victims.

5) The Revolutionary Presidency

The danger to our constitutional democracy could be measured in 2003 by the following: (a) the Bush administration was comprised almost exclusively by people with ties to business that define "conflicts of interest;" (b) both houses of congress, if not impotent, had at least agreed to a legislative abstinence of duty; the only elected representitives who attempted to stand up to the executive were from "minority" populations; and (c) the US Supreme Court had disgraced the judicial institution with its 2000 selection of Bush for president, based entirely upon political and economic interests.

The dangers of an imperial presidency pales in comparison to the current threat posed by the revolutionary presidency. Consider that: (a) George Bush has become the most absolute monarch of any world power in today's world. Add to that the fact that VP Cheney has more concentrated power than any dictator in world history, including Mao Tse-tung; (b)the congress is divided and weakened. The Senate has lost any control over the White House urge for increased war-making, and the House of Representatives no longer enquires into grievences, unless they concern issues such as oral sex rather than Enron, 9-11, the Plame exposure, or the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of black citizens in Florida; and (c) the idea of 13 Colonies demanding freedom of speech is disgraced by 13 states having "libel" laws making it illegal to express concerns about food farms, or the safety of related "agro-business" food products. (Crimes Against Nature; Robery Kennedy, Jr)

6) You Reap What You Sow

The Bush administration rules through fear, the "threats" to national security that they define, through manipulating the 9-11 national emergency, and through secrecy. Their policies pose a threat to individual liberties in order to benefit business interests, and they are the greatest threat to constitutional democracy today. The extent of this threat is exposed by a series of books associated with John Dean, Richard Clarke, Paul O'Neill, Robery Kennedy, Jr., and many others. It is also exposed to grass-roots America by the movie "F 9-11."

The reaction of the administration is to attempt to discredit the individuals involved in exposing the political corruption of this administration. This is not a new tactic. Before the FBI focused on Martin Luther King's sex life, before the COINTELPRO operations of the 1960s and '70s, we remember the efforts of two congressional leaders in the mid-50s. Senator Thomas Hennings, Jr. and Rep. John Moss questioned the bureaucratic secrecy that threatened the democratic system, by discussing why the government labled a Pentagon study of the bow & arrow ("Silent Flashless Weapons") as "top secret."
They were accused of threatening national security.

This administration and its corporate sponsors, including the news media, are involved in a similar campaign to discredit critics. This campaign includes Ambassador Joseph Wilson. (see Plame Indictment Threads #1-12)

An unintended consequence of the high level of bureaucratic secrecy is that it leads to no respect for individual secrecy. This is evident from a reading of the Patriot Act: things like medical and library records, which should be protected by the US Constitution, are no longer private.

Further, the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative stands as the moststark example of the administration's contempt for the rights to privacy implied by the Constitution.

7) Conclusion

At the time of the American Revolution, the "founding fathers" met in secret. They were almost exclusively from the "upper class," and needed to keep their actions secret from King George. While they may have spoken more openly as individuals, their group efforts were not known to the upper class, including the newspapers of the day.

However, the middle class and the poor spread the word. They were aware of King George's spies, so they spread the word on a democratic underground. It took root -- and grass roots democracy has been the most important part of the foundation for this country ever since. The grass roots are more powerful than those three branches of the federal government.

We're in similar circumstances today. Our president is no more in favor of democracy than old King George was. We have two chances of kicking him out of power. The most obvious is the election in November. But there's also the Plame Indictments.

If there is any life breath in the balance of powers, the legislative and judiciary must do their jobs. This is a criminal outfit. There are now numerous "upper class" people organizing to hold this administration liable for their crimes. It's not just democrats hoping to reclaim the presidency in 2004. It's a wide range of citizens who know that Bush and Cheney intend to fully destroy the constitutional democracy we should enjoy.

You and I aren't meeting in their secret get-togethers. We're that grass-roots democratic power. Our primary job is to continue to educate the public, register voters, and increase participation in those treasures defined by the Bill of Rights. Please work to spread the message about the Plame Indictments. We've seen a preview of the administration's late summer counter-offensive.

Let's expose them as totally offensive.

Thank you,
H2O Man
2004 Delegate of the Mississippi Freedom Party
Democratic Underground Grass Roots Convention

[H2O Man]

47. P.S. : on pms......

A number of people have asked me questions on the DU e-mail about the mild conflict that took place last week on these threads. They were not as a result of the dark forces of the republican extreme right invading our space. It was actually a disagreement on tactics. In the "rev.pres. vs bill o'rights" thread, I mentioned that the upper class forces on our side do things secretly. And they have to. I appreciate that. But I'm from the bottom class .... I am among the grass roots masses. So we have different tactics.

I said that to say this: the work that has been done on these threads is making significant progress. But don't look for it to be expressed by those in the upper class. Keep focused on the grass roots.

[robertpaulsen]

84. Just wondering about that "upper class"

It sounded to Pallas and I like you were talking about the "upper class" in more than just economic terms. I'm sure most of them are filthy rich, but their distinguishing trait, if I read you correctly, is the power and control they wield as an "elite class". It doesn't necessarily hold fast to a particular ideology, but despises any people or school of thought that threatens the power structure, the structure that enables the "elite class" to control the voiceless masses.

Am I on the right track, or making a mountain out of a molehill?

[kohodog]

85. Did you see the NYT Magazine today?

It talks about a progressive movement to counter the conservative machine. But (albeit with good intentions), it is be
ing created by big money donors who hope to counter the right and stimulate the grass roots. But it also has the same smell of "upper class" who feel they should control things. A long article, but worth a read.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/magazine/25DEMOCRATS.html

[H2O Man]

87. I'm not talking about economics .....

rather, a state of mind.

[kohodog]

91. Thanks for clarifying that, I read it too quickly

Money talks, but there is a difference between those who use it to oppress and those who use it to promote social justice. In this context I wouldn'd mind having a couple of billion!

[Pallas180]

96. KOHO It's a very interesting article - one wonders

though, if we will end up, eventually, with the same thing we are
fighting now. Instead of takeover of the country from the right's
business interests, takeover of the country from the left's business
interests.

One begins to feel like the citizen caught between the war of the
"Hatfields and McCoys"- only these are ober riche Hatfields and McCoys.

In the case of Soros though, it may be different. He lived through
the fascist takeover of his country and said he recognized it happening here.

Page 4 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/magazine/25DEMOCRATS.html?pagewanted=4

[Pallas180]

97. If they just buy back the media corporations

and return to the Fair Media doctrine, it would be a good
start.

They are trying to replicate the infiltration and long term campaign that the rethuglican's started after Nixon was impeached and which
the republicans have totally succeeded in after 30 years.

Perhaps they can do it in less time.

[shraby]

99. The media has to be broken down into

smaller elements and the newspapers and radio have to be independent of the t.v. moguls. Fair Media doctrine will help, but they have to go all the way with it.

[Pallas180]

104. Agreed Shraby. They better have a lot of money to

get media out of the grips of Rupert Murdoch and Texas'
Clear Channel.

[shraby]

98. Soros is rich and can

do wonders with his money, hopefully what we see is what we get and he has no ulterior motives besides beating shrub.

[Pallas180]

103. H20 - I guess that with KOHO's post #85 NYTimes article

what they are doing is not a secret anymore. But that is
for long term change counteracting what the ultra conservatives
have done in the last 30 years.

Am I to understand that the unwelcome attacks and shadows here
were aligned with that group?

Then why try to stop these threads?

If the goal is to remove the biggest threat to this democracy since the rise of the Third Reich; whether the defeat comes at the election with the influence of new progressive money or whether it comes from grassroot efforts to have "them" criminally charged and removed from the offices all over government, why should there be
efforts to hinder the grassrooters???

If the monied progressives' intent still is to move to One World
Government, then the populace of America and the Constitution and Bill of Rights still are in no better condition than it was with the intent of the Ultra Right Wing and Neo-Cons.

Perhaps I'm dense, but this intrigue is over my head.

Exactly Which group tried to shut down these threads and WHY?

[Occulus]

48. Very nicely written, H20!

Bonus points if you answer the following question:

Why, in your opinion, are our young people not taught the words directly following "...life, liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" in the Declaration of Independence in their schools? (This also applies to the not-so-young, by the way.)

Discuss. :)

[H2O Man]

50. In my opinion.....

because a lot of people would take that wonderful message from Jefferson, and translate it into something very similar to what I posted this morning. And more: it would translate into action.

After reading your post, I pulled out my copy of The American Reader, (edited by Diane Ravitch) and re-read Jefferson's words. They send a chill up my spine. That body of work is as important and relevant today as it was then. Old King George sounds pretty familiar!

[shockingelk]

178. a question ...

Why would a CIA agent specializing in WMD be investigating Dick Cheney? And if she was, would she not be in possession of information she could leak?

[H2O Man]

198. Interesting question.....

Unique, too, in the sense that the idea .... that a CIA agent was investigating Dick Cheney .... hasn't been mentioned here that I am aware of. And it doesn't seem to fit here. But if you had some evidence of it, please do post it.

[kohodog]

68. Good Afternoon H20 and all

Good points, H20,

The "grass roots" have changed the tide a few times in our History. I think of the struggle for workers rights and civil rights as examples. Vietnam (and the end of the war), Nixon's resignation,and I'm sure there are more, Perhaps our current struggle for human rights and the rights of citizens vs corporations in our "democracy" will be another.

[TacticalPeek]

72. Write on!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2059374#2062547


:)






"I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired."

[robertpaulsen]

77. Beautiful!

I feel like this paper encapsulates the history of democratic thought within our country and applies it to the force of statist opposition that constantly seeks to undermine it.

The words We Shall Overcome spring to mind as I finish this paper.

Thanks H20 Man! Good Sunday inspiration!

[robertpaulsen]

51. I'm back & I'm still trying to catch up.

I'm going to read all my mail and read everything on thread 12 before I post anything new here or respond to any questions. But I see my friend Pallas has made a request for a reprint of the theories.

So, along with Joe Klein's Time article, here they are!

[robertpaulsen]

52. Plenty More to Swear About - a focus on the question: why?

Sunday, Jun. 27, 2004
Plenty More to Swear About
By JOE KLEIN
The Vulcans — a campaign 2000 nickname for George W. Bush's hawkish national security team — went Krakatoa last week. Dick Cheney erupted on the Senate floor, deploying the F word against Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy, who had been belaboring the Vice President over the no-bid deals that Cheney's old company, Halliburton, had scored in Iraq. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suffered a meltdown in a House Armed Services Committee hearing, blasting the press for "sitting in Baghdad" and "printing rumors." (He later apologized.) And the White House was forced to acknowledge that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved, at least for a while, the use of dogs, nudity, stress positions — that is, torture — against enemy combatants. Indeed, Rumsfeld, who works at a stand-up desk, indicated a desire for at least one more strenuous stress position: "I stand 8-10 hours a day," he scrawled on a memo. "Why is standing limited to 4 hours?"

Presumably the Secretary of Defense doesn't do his standing naked, continuously, in the middle of the night, surrounded by hostile guards and attack dogs. But then, Rumsfeld's blustery testosteronics are at the heart of what has gone wrong with the Bush foreign policy — and last week the assorted temper tantrums appeared to be a leading indicator of a gathering summer storm confronting this presidency.


The torture investigation is one of four major defensive battles the Administration is facing. In the weeks to come, the White House will also have to deal with the 9/11 commission's final report, the congressional investigations into the CIA's bungled assessment of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and a special prosecutor's hunt for the White House leakers who blew the cover of CIA secret operative Valerie Plame. Not only is the Administration defending itself against the Democrats, the investigators and the media. Two other serious, surreptitious — and quite possibly unprecedented — battles are going on: the intelligence community is at war with the White House, and the uniformed military is at war with the civilian leadership of the Pentagon. The first conflict went public last week with news of the impending publication of Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terrorism, a book by an anonymous author who is known to be a senior CIA official and former chief of the agency's Osama bin Laden station. The invasion of Iraq was "an avaricious, premeditated, unprovoked war against a foe who posed no immediate threat," the author writes. "There is nothing that bin Laden could have hoped for more than the American invasion and occupation of Iraq."

Michael Moore couldn't have said it any better — and this book was vetted by CIA censors. In fact, the views of Anonymous are an accurate reflection of the opinions I've heard from multiple intelligence sources. The spooks seem to believe that outgoing CIA Director George Tenet was strong-armed by Cheney and Rumsfeld into overassessing Iraq's WMD capacity. This may or may not be true, but it is the conventional wisdom in the intelligence community. Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. Plame was outed in a White House attempt to discredit the finding of her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, that there was no evidence that Iraq tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger. "Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll" of the CIA, an intelligence source told me.

more...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1101040705-658343,00.html

I reprint this article that we have been referencing since the first thread because the knowledge of this "sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" provides us with clues for a MOTIVE to blow Valerie Plame's cover. Exploring the reasons "why" gives us a clearer understanding of the scope of this treasonous act and leads to the next logical query in any criminal investigation: who benefited?

[shraby]

54. Here is some more good information

and theories on the Plame case. I'm adding the link so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle of threads.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2060039>

[H2O Man]

59. Good afternoon, shraby !

I had read the link that you put on here. It has some interesting information.

[shraby]

61. Good afternoon to you too H20

I thought it had some interesting info also concerning the rat- infested White House. Just wish Fitzgerald would bring out the Rid-Rat and clean it up we already have fleas from them, fleas spread the black death and I fear this country is succumbing.

[robertpaulsen]

55. RECAP-PALLAS THEORY OF WHY PLAME>CHENEY>HALLLIBURTON

3. A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton


repost

A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton

On my way home today, as I thought about the why the outing of Valerie Plame was necessary, I was so engrossed I drove 4 exits past my exit.

Here's what we know:

1) Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

2) Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of components to Libya which could be used for nuclear purposes. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

3) There is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

4)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Here's the theory:

Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the biggest treasonous taboo of revealing a CIA sting operation was done because she/it was coming close to discovering even more serious violations of the laws against trading nuclear materials with certain countries by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts after he became VP.

Recently Libya was accused of having WMD components and the US threat
ened to invade unless Quaddaffi gave the WMD components to the US.
Bush 2 was seen on TV this week inspecting the cases of returned materials from Iraq triumphantly. The fact that Quaddafi received these illegal shipments of components from Cheney/Halliburton was not
mentioned in the victory video.

Dick Cheney, even after the Senate Intel Committee, The Atomic Commission and numerous other agencies have said no WMD exist in Iraq,
insists Iraq has WMD even in the last week.

Why? Because Dick Cheney knows he, through an offshore Halliburton company with a PO Box, at some time in the past sold Saddam Hussein WMD or components of WMD. In the same way "they" under Bush 1 adminstration sold Hussein lethal gas which he used, and then attacked him for using it saying he was a threat to the community.

Why do Cheney and Bush insist they must attack Syrria and Iran as the next step in making the world safe and that Syrria and Iran have
WMD? Cheney-Halliburton know that Syrria and Iran have WMD components because Cheney illegally sold the WMD components to Syrria and Iran.

Why did Bush Cheney know that North Korea had WMD and where did they gget the components?

Why were Pakistan and India able to test and develop nuclear weapons undetected by the CIA's "big eye in the sky" or any agency's seismic
discovery? And where did India and Pakistan purchase the components
for WMD which were illegal for any company to sell them?

What was Valerie Plame investigating?


good spooks vs the bad spooks in the FBI and CIA becomes very confusing to most, I think.



Not to add confusion to my "theory " above, but I also thought:

When Saudi Arabia asked Junior and Company to get out of Saudi Arabia
afer we had built a monstrous and expensive base armed with the newest weaponry - one might call it a home base -why would they do that, when they had wanted US to protect them and their oil fields for years???

The reason given for asking us to vacate was to calm the anti-American element. Hmmm. But if they needed our protection from that very element, WHY would they ask their protector to leave.
BECAUSE they "likely" also received WMD from certain parties.

So now, we can guess, the entire Middle East is armed with illegal components of WMD...supplied by whom?hmmm

And I agree with you ROBERTPAULSEN- it's a great racket. Supply them
with the components, collect payment. Shuttle back and forth between
private employment and government employment, selling WMD for your company's bottom line while a private CEO, earning large bonuses and
deferred "payment" plus increased stock option value, go back into government, create a war on those countries who have the WMD you have sold them, then you have created a situation where your company and the other companies you hold stock in, or which belong to your other associates, can supply the army with munitions, destroy the country you have sold WMD to, and then the very same companies who supplied the munitions for destruction, go in and rebuild the country.


So. Now how many times have you profiteered?
1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts

[robertpaulsen]

56. PALLAS THEORY - WHY BRIT INTEL WONT SHOW THEIR EVIDENCE

everyone is assuming that the Brit Intel is the same Intel that the
CIA had. (on yellowcake)

You're right about one thing...the intel agencies all share their info.BUT you are forgetting that the French have been investigating CHeney Halliburton illegalities for some time, and Cheney Halliburton
did not sell yellowcake (to our knowledge), they sold equipment that could be used for dual use - and one of the uses was for a nuklar bomb.

So there is nothing to say that the Brit Intel was the same Niger info.In fact it may not be.

WHY would they not share with the world what information they had about Iraq having WMD? And why have they suddenly changed their mindsagain saying it was bogus after all - after insisting for 1 1/2 years they had separate proof of Iraq having WMD?

Theory: because it would cause a great deal of embarrassment to "he who calls himself president of VICE ! !! a-ha!

Could be one of Halliburton's subsidiaries or offshores, whose name and connection was not recognized immediately was in the hands of Brit Intel so they said they had separate verifying proof of WMD in Iraq - only to realize the proof traced back to a company named Halliburton or Brown Root - and so they shut up. (TOP SECRET - CANNOT BE REVEALED, of course while every intel agency in the world knows, but the general public date not know becaue we would hang the perpetrator)

Highly plausible . First they say they have proof of WMD in Iraq.but refuse to show it.......now they suddenly say the proof is bogus - and still refuse to reveal it.

[robertpaulsen]

57. H20 THEORY - RECAP

H2O Man (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 02:01 PM




We know that Valerie Plame was involved in a sting operation involving the components for WMDs. This is verfied in J. Klein's article in Time, 7-5-04. Remember also that when Novak called CI for confirmation of Plame's status -- and Robert NoFacts had told a total stranger on a public street on the day afterWilson's NYT op-ed article that she was a WMD specialist -- the CIA requested that he not only should NOT mention Wilson's wife was an operative with the Agency, but that her name should not ever be printed.

One of the things to keep in mind is that by revealing Plame's identity, it insured that at very least, a half-dozen operatives (American and other-wise) were exposed to the last people on earth that they should have been exposed to. Let's just say, for example, that there was a person who was working in the Pakistan area ... and he had worked in deep cover for over a decade, and was very, very close to accessing information on the sale of not only technology, but also components, that went to Iran .... and he had a known link to Plame .... then he would be dead 24 hours after Novak's article was printed. Further, no one in the USA would be at liberty to discuss the fact that he existed.

You will recall that I've referred to this as high stakes chess. A board game where the removal of one player compromises the safety and value of several others.

Listen: if they wanted to call Wilson's conclusions into question, they could create confusion with a series of bullshit documents from England, etc. They could have said that his was one of three US reports, and that there were the British papers that were still open to question, considering that Wilson had not viewed them. They could have even said, yes, we tend to agree with Wilson.

But they didn't. They had been waiting to reveal information on Plame for some time. The fact that Iran is sharing he focus in the recent days, along with Wilson, is a clue .... a big clue.

[robertpaulsen]

58. CALIMARY THEORY RECAP

Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 05:43 PM


71. I am convinced Valerie Plame was the target, & they thought
they would do a 'Rosenberg' on them. Two for the price of one.
Set them up.Traitors to the country, electric chair, the whole bit.




calimary (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #71

143. That would fit in conveniently with the message they evidently wanted to put out to the intel community: the "do not cheney with us" message. Wilson has, many times, mentioned that what happened to his wife, whether to her directly or indirectly to him, was to seriously discourage others from getting "out of line." Wouldn't that just be the decisive little coup de grace - to "Rosenberg" one or both of them, to put a chill on anybody else who might be getting too dangerously close? If they knew they were not only going to be ruined, but they also faced the electric chair or some other kind of EXTREMELY final punishment, there'd be icicles hanging off all of them before you could say "BOO!"

And for awhile, they've seemed invincible, haven't they? So who would dare...

But things are a lot stickier and more complicated now. Their anticipated free ride is starting to get seriously mucked up as more people know, and talk, and spread out, and start asking questions, and some guy like Fitzgerald gets involved (who couldn't be counted on to be a "good" republi-CON after all. And, as someone else mentioned either here or on Thread 8 - they misunderestimated the internet. They thought we'd all just shut up and go to our corner and suck our thumbs and mope and cower and give up, didn't they? They didn't know we'd (literally, here) go underground...

As Martha Stewart would say - it's a VERY good thing. And it's gaining traction.

Which is what our efforts in all these arenas should do, as well. GAIN TRACTION.

[robertpaulsen]

60. ROBERTPAULSEN THEORY HALLI>KHAN-OBL>PLAME>CHENEY

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #216

234. WHOA!!! Could this be circumstantial evidence of a Khan/Plame link?!


When I first read this article, I decided to post it here because of the dirt it has on a Musharraf/Khan/Bin Laden connection.

A. Q. KHAN & OSAMA BIN LADEN

snip
These accounts of three of the travels of Dr.A.Q.Khan establish conclusively the following facts:

He had kept the Pakistani Foreign Office informed of his travels. The Foreign Office had instructed the Pakistani diplomatic missions in the countries visited by him to accord the due honours of protocol to him.
In all the countries, he was received by officers of the Pakistani diplomatic missions and entertained by the heads of missions.
In Sudan, he was accorded the honours of protocol generally given to a member of the Cabinet and called on the President of the country.
He was accompanied by senior serving scientists of Pakistan's nuclear establishment, who were among those responsible for Pakistan's military nuclear development. They could not have gone abroad and remained absent for days without the knowledge and clearance of the Government.
At least one Lt.Gen. belonging to the Pakistan Army's Medical Corps, who had headed it, and two Brigadiers had accompanied him. They could not have gone and remained away from the country without the knowledge and clearance of the Military Headquarters.
The uranium enriched at KRL, Kahuta, used to come from Africa, mainly Niger. This partly explains the frequent travels of A.Q.Khan to Africa. From the accounts given by the Pakistani author, two intriguing questions arise:

Why did Khan consider it necessary to visit the site of a factory in Sudan, which became the target of US Cruise missile attacks after the explosions outside the US Embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam by Al Qaeda in August 1998? The Americans had alleged at that time that this factory belonged to Osama bin Laden and was producing chemicals for weaponisation purposes. Denying this, the Sudanese authorities had claimed that it was producing anti-malaria drugs.
Why was he visiting frequently Timbuktu, which has apparently no importance from the nuclear point of view? Pakistani officials have alleged that he had illegally constructed a hotel there ( Hotel La Colombe?) in the name of his wife. If he was going there to supervise the construction of the hotel, he should have been accompanied by experts in building construction and the hotel industry. No such person accompanied him. He was always accompanied by scientists and Army officers associated with KRL and Tahir Mian, who was helping him in the procurement of centrifuges.
It is reliably learnt from well-placed observers that it also came out during the recent interrogation of the associates of Khan in Pakistan's nuclear establishment that after Osama bin Laden shifted from Khartoum to Afghanistan in 1996, Dr.Khan was also looking after bin Laden's extensive investments in the mining industry in many African countries and that the money invested in the Timbuktu hotel had come from these investments of bin Laden. The Pakistani authorities have reportedly suppressed this information and not shared it with the US.

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/khanandbinladen.html

Sooooo....

Khan, with the assistance of the Pakistani government and military, looked after bin Laden investments in Africa. Pretty bad on its own merits. But then this sentence caught my eye.


The uranium enriched at KRL, Kahuta, used to come from Africa, mainly Niger. This partly explains the frequent travels of A.Q.Khan to Africa.


What a coincidence. The enriched uranium that Khan had access to came mainly from NIGER!

Now, when Cheney sent Wilson to Niger, wasn't he aware of Plame's WMD "sting operation" in the Middle East?!

No wonder Musharraf had this reaction:

"In one of his statements, he has even blamed the US intelligence agencies for not uncovering this network earlier than October last year and asserted that if they had done so, he would have acted against it even earlier."

I know this is not direct proof of a smoking gun, but I think this information could be an extremely important piece of the puzzle. If the WMD trafficking that Plame's "sting operation" covered is linked to Khan, who got his enriched uranium mainly from Niger, and we can verify Cheney had access to this intelligence, then we are getting even closer to H20 Man and Prouty's big question: why?

[robertpaulsen]

62. ROBERTPAULSEN - CHENEY/KHAN TIE: MOTIVE TO OUT PLAME

We all know about the $1.2 million fine Cheney got for selling dual-use components. Going back over some of my old posts, here's another bit of dirt we should all remember:

Cheney helped cover-up Pakistani nuclear proliferation in '89 so US could sell country fighter jets

Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:04 PM Eastern Standard Time
Jason Leopold
When Pakistan's clandestine program involving its top nuclear scientist selling rogue nations, such as Iran and North Korea, blueprints for building an atomic bomb was uncovered last month, the world's leaders waited, with baited breath to see what type of punishment George W. Bush would inflict upon Pakistan's President Pervez Musharaff. Bush has, after all, spent his entire term in office talking tough about countries and dictators that conceal weapons of mass destruction and even tougher on individuals who supply rogue nations and terrorists with the means to build WMD. For all intents and purposes, Pakistan and Musharraf fit that description.

Remember, Bush accused Iraq of harboring a cache of WMD, which was the primary reason he gave for the United States launching a preemptive strike on that country a year ago, and also claimed that Iraq may have given its WMD to al-Qaeda terrorists and/or Syria, weapons that, Bush said, could be used to attack the U.S. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and top members of the administration reacted with shock when they found out that Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, spent the past 15 years selling outlaw nations nuclear technology and equipment. So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.

Like the terrorist attacks on 9-11, the Bush administration had mountains of evidence on Pakistan's sales of nuclear technology and equipment to nations vilified by the U.S.?nations that are considered much more of a threat than Iraq?but turned a blind eye to the threat and allowed it to happen. In 1989, the year Khan first started selling nuclear secrets on the black-market; Richard Barlow, a young intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon prepared a shocking report for Cheney, who was then secretary of defense under the Bush I administration: Pakistan built an atomic bomb and was selling its nuclear equipment to countries the U.S. said was sponsoring terrorism. But Barlow's findings, as reported in a January 2002 story in Mother Jones magazine, were "politically inconvenient."

"A finding that Pakistan possessed a nuclear bomb would have triggered a congressionally mandated cutoff of aid to the country, a key ally in the CIA's efforts to support Afghan rebels fighting a pro-Soviet government. It also would have killed a $1.4-billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad," Mother Jones reported. Ironically, Pakistan, critics say, was let off the hook last month so the U.S. could use its borders to hunt for al-Qaeda leader and alleged 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden. Cheney dismissed Barlow's report because he desperately wanted to sell Pakistan the F-16 fighter planes. Several months later, a Pentagon official was told by Cheney to downplay Pakistan's nuclear capabilities when he testified on the threat before Congress. Barlow complained to his bosses at the Pentagon and was fired.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/2004031621042158

That got me thinking about other facts surrounding the Plame scandal. Like the "sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components". When Khan's operation was exposed, everyone in the loop was caught with their pants down. Musharraf had to pardon Khan because as the father of the Pakistani atomic bomb, he is a national hero. Do you buy that as the real reason? That's like accepting the Bush misadministration's silence over the pardon because Pakistan is our ally in the War on Terror. Right. Reminds me of Michael Corleone in Godfather Part II: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".

My theory is that the sting operation Plame was involved in brought down A.Q. Khan. As far as "trafficking of WMD components" goes, Khan was a pretty huge player. My fear is that Khan was just the tip of the iceberg and that when Plame's operation was derailed, it allowed even bigger fish to swim away where Middle East WMD trafficking is concerned. Remember this about Musharraf:

"His repeatedly-asserted contention has been that after the interception by the intelligence agencies of the US and the UK of a ship in October last year which was found carrying to Libya a clandestine consignment of centrifuges for uranium enrichment got manufactured at the instance of A.Q.Khan by a company in Malaysia with the assistance of a Sri Lankan Muslim, he became aware of the extensive non-proliferation activities of the A.Q.Khan group and immediately acted against them.

According to Musharraf, details of the clandestine travels and proliferation network of A.Q. Khan came to notice during the subsequent investigation. In one of his statements, he has even blamed the US intelligence agencies for not uncovering this network earlier than October last year and asserted that if they had done so, he would have acted against it even earlier

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/khanandbinladen.html

If Plame was in on this sting, Musharraf certainly had a reason to voice disdain for the US intelligence agencies, and Cheney certainly had a reason to out Plame.

[robertpaulsen]

63. Nuclear Walmart: Little Doubt that OBL has dirty bomb -

if you read Robert's post above carefully, you see that
Pakistani scientist Khan was running a Nuclear Walmart.

1)He sold the secrets of the nuclear bomb world wide. This is fact.
2)He had access to yellow cake by his trips to Africa/Niger
3)He was OBL's overseer of finances and properties, with the help
of the secret service ISI of Pakistan.

The ISI of Pakistan was also the supporter and installer of the TAliban in Afghanistan (and current protector/hider of OBL)

When Khan was exposed as the merchant of death ofa ring selling nuclear materials world wide, he was immediately pardoned by
Musharaf, PM of of Pakistan. Pardoned so fast that none of the US
Intel agencies would be able to question him.

WHY? H20 always tells us to ask WHY? Why was Khan immediately pardoned? Because to try him for criminality would have exposed
who gave him nuclear components, what corporations sold illegally,
what country and high officials were involved.

WHERE did Khan get the components which are necessary to set off
a nuclear device?

WHO? do we know who has illegally been selling nuclear dual components?

Some of these answers go back to the administration in 1988 when it
was known that administration gave other countries the miniaturized
nuke W88. Hmmmm. What current officials were in the same administration?

What was the name of the President at the time?

[robertpaulsen]

64. Why go to the elaborate scenarios? to stop WMD investigations:

Subject: Why go to the elaborate scenarios: to stop investigations into WMD sales
Message:
Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #59

71. They're not called the Mayberry Machiavellis for nothing - I think

in a way it was the other way around, they weren't after Wilson, they were after Plame. Two for the price of one. Rosenberg them.

Cheney has been in govt since Nixon, that we know of, then Ford.
He's been around a long time with access to top security items.
To recap, we also knew he made at least 10 trips to CI HQ and would
have, could have, pinpointed who was working blackmarket WMD which
would have been of great interest to him. He would also have access
to CI files, would know of or remember Ambassador Wilson. Bingo -
the plot is hatched.

Ask her would her husband be interested in helping? Of course.
Discredit him, expose/discredit her operation and put a stop to her work and the work of the entire spy group/cell she had set up worldwide which MAY have been hot on the trail of Halliburton/Brown Root/et al illegal black market sales of components which could be used for WMD, which as we all know was Valerie's job.

He figures he's home free, no more fines, no discovery of the double dealing, but the Mayberrys call Novak and committ a treasonous act which leads right back to the WH and darth vader.

___________________________________________________________________


Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #102

117. If Pappy gave the mini nuke W88 to China,as widely reported, there is nothing to say Pappy and darth vader didn't give the same or similar components to Khan. And your theory sounds just about right - Khan would have had to be pardoned immediately because not to pardon him, the good FBI would be over there asking him where he got the WMD and the arrow would point right back to the 1988 administration # 1 and/or the current WH.

Another reason why junior sealed Pappy's records.

Nice, huh. It still sounds like treason to me at the highest levels
__________________________________________________________

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #117

138. Glad you agree!
The extent of treason is pretty scary. Gives me nightmares sometimes. I woke up this morning with the memory of seeing a news report: "Bush prepares for upcoming Iran invasion". That's one nightmare I'm afraid might come true.

But I take comfort in knowing we're all on the side of righteousness in this struggle

Additional edit for this thread: These theories are all different, but as far as I can see, they all fit into a pattern, like different pieces of the same jigsaw puzzle. I look forward to reading more research into these theories, as well as new theories that could give us a fresh perspective on the nature of this crime.

[shraby]

185. There is one more aspect

to the 1-2-3-4

5. Enter government from time to time and make sure laws and regulations are such that you can be most profitable while you're in the private sector.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

212. Perhaps the reason

Cheney wound up on the 2000 ticket. Just a thought.

[H2O Man]

53. Hello, robertpaulsen:

Good to have you back. I hope that you enjoy the needs posts.

[robertpaulsen]

65. Hi H20 Man!

It's great to be back! So much reading to catch up on! Thanks for keeping this thread strong. I'll look for the needs posts. You're the best!

[shraby]

67. There is another situation

here that begs the question "why". Why do the leaders of the house refuse to allow any investigations into the administration? Why are all attempts to get pertinent papers to various questions blocked repeatedly? These actions go beyond partisan politics, they go so far as to be complicit in illegal actions by the White House. Why?

[kohodog]

69. One Party Rule

In my opinion the Republican leaders have had a taste of one party rule and will do anything to keep power. Look how they intimidate, even bribe their own. To investigate these crimes might threaten their hold on the majority, so in their minds it's better to sweep them under the rug until they can consolidate their power. Any republican who sides with the opposition on these matters will be castigated.

[shraby]

70. You may be right, but

if the Pres. and V. Pres. are taken down and everyone steps "up" in the house, how bad would it hurt the majority in the house? They would still have the executive branch and still have a majority in the house. The senate would remain unchanged. (I think) It still looks to me like some ranking members in the house are complicit.

[kohodog]

71. If they go down by indictment...

I truely believe people will vote to change the composition of the House and/or Senate. I agree that high ranking members are complicit. Look at DeLay, Santorum and others.

[shraby]

73. I don't see how such

vicious people as they are get elected..maybe by hook or by crook?

[H2O Man]

74. There are not enough representatives

with the moral character required to take a firm stand on this. This is the idea behind grass roots movements. It's not important to get people at the top to carry the story we have had in this series of threads. It is important to have the little newsletters, the internet sites, and the like spread the word. It is important that we form linkages with other like-minded peoples.

If a member of the House of Representatives gets one letter on the issue of the Plame sting operation being derailed, it will not get any attention. If that representative gets 100 letters, he or she will take notice. If he or she gets 1,000 letters, it means that much more.

Yet that one letter contains just as much truth as 100 or 1000. So we see that it is not an issue of if we are right or wrong. We are right. And, in fact, a few people at those upper class levels have taken notice. They just can't say the same things we can say. And their need to act in secrecy has resulted in two of their people bouncing around other Plame threads trying to confuse issues and discredit us. But we don't have to do that. We need to spend our time focused on the yeoman's labor of connecting on the grass roots level.

[kohodog]

75. H20, Our material seems to be spreading out, like

the ripples made by a stone cast into the water. Watch the Plame articles closely, the blogs (talking points included),etc, and I think we're starting to see something.

I'm taking a respite from work in the mountains this week and have limited access. A good thing to be removed a bit from the day to day bustle and commune a bit, but I'll try to keep my eyes open.

I'll also take a little time to focus on the new "Declaration" project I mentioned a number of threads ago. I noticed a drift towards that again and your 2nd paper was excellent. Thank you.

[H2O Man]

78. I think so.

The idea has begun to spread. It is being diffused into the general message on the Plame exposure. In a short time, it will become common knowledge. It doesn't matter if people cite our work on DU. We do not need any recognition. But, when it becomes common knowledge, and when the indictments come down, and the big process is put in motion, a handful of us will be able to smile with the qiet knowledge that it started here .... on a left-wing forum where the enemy was unlikely to look for it.

[kohodog]

79. When the "big process is put in motion," we'll have our quiet party

right here!

I am the youngest of four and learned early that if you push the right buttons you can make things happen under the radar and that results are the important thing, not who gets the credit. Not that we will deserve credit, but it takes a lot of grains of sand to make a beach. I only hope to be a small voice joining many to make a difference.

But this is a narrow forum and we need to get the word out.

[swag]

95. I like that when I enter "valerie plame" at news.google.com,

the first hit that's listed is the Waterman Paper.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&tab=wn&q=valerie+plame

[Pallas180]

101. SWAG, thanks for letting us know. That's a WAHOO.

:bounce:

[Pallas180]

105. Joseph Wilson speaks out again:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0721-06.htm

[coeur_de_lion]

81. Hey Kohodog!

I'm really glad you are going to work on the new Declaration. I was afraid you forgot about it. Keep us posted about how that is going!

Will your kids help you with it?

[kohodog]

83. Hi Arby,

They will be primary writers and signers! One just returned from a human rights program in Capetown and is ready to go. I'm happy to have a little time away from work in a beautiful setting.

It's interesting, we had some Russian friends visit and they commented on how they have no family records or memories past their grandparents, including where they were from because of the displacement that occured when the communists came into power and moved people to new locations and new jobs.

We have much to be thankful for and much to do to keep our conutry free.

[coeur_de_lion]

92. I'm excited that you are doing this. Do keep me posted! eom

[Me.]

76. Let America

Be America Again

[Me.]

89. I wonder...

If these people who need to act secretly are so good at what they do, how is it that this gang of mugs got past the gates to the WH in the first place?

[shraby]

90. They stole the keys.

[starroute]

94. I'm fascinated by what you say about the grass roots and the elite

It's seemed pretty clear to me for the last year that significant elements of the elite were turning against Bush -- and glaringly obvious since last winter (when Dean's stock suddenly dropped while Kerry's rose) that they had reached a firm decision that Bush had to go.

I take this shift to be in large part a matter of the old East Coast elite deciding to take a stand against the Texas cowboys. The Rockefellers and such had accepted George W. on his daddy's say-so -- but the more obvious it became that Georgie's policies were diverging from his father's, and in ways that would be ruinous to the country, the less acceptable he became.

However, although there may be a certain immediate relief next November in having national affairs back in the hands of people who are relatively sane, that does nothing in the long run for true democracy.

I've been reading a lot about the 30's lately, and have been feeling somewhat dispirited about the way in which eras of genuine popular activism seem to accomplish a few useful reforms but then gutter out again without achieving any fundamental changes in the system. (For example, the labor movement of the 30's was seriously radical in its aspirations, but by the 1950's, it had become willing to accept continuing corporate control of the means of production in return for a slightly larger slice of the pie -- a deal with the devil which didn't last past the Reagan administration.)

It seems almost as though wars in the 20th century were scheduled to come along just as needed to justify calls for national unity and the abandonment of radical aspirations. (The Vietnam War worked less well in this regard than the two world wars, which may be why the social repression got so much nastier.)

So the real question for me is how to break out of that pattern -- and I think the idea of grass roots organization may be crucial. The greatest weakness of socialism in the 20th century was that it was still tied to a top-down model of government (as was communism, despite its hopeful rhetoric about the eventual withering away of the state.) But the Internet and Open Source software provide a true alternative paradigm for how major institutions can be effectively run from the bottom up. (A paradigm that originally came out of science fiction fandom -- but that's another story for another time.)

So by all means, let us continue our grass-roots work. But let us also be aware that the ultimate objective is not to feed information to the elite, but eventually to make the elite unnecessary.

[robertpaulsen]

82. WOW! Just finished reading Pallas180's post 126 from thread 12.

Lots of new information on two shadowy figures in the Nuclear Walmart I had not previously focused on, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood and Chaudri Abdul Majeed, their shady organization UTN, and their efforts to provide nuclear assistance to al Qaeda.




Here are some of the scary highlights that stood out for me:

According to the Washington Post, however, Mahmood and Majeed admitted that they had long discussions with al Qaeda officials in August 2001 about nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons.50 Pakistani intelligence officials told the Washington Post that they believe that the scientists used UTN partially as a cover to conduct secret talks with bin Laden.

According to a Fact Sheet distributed by the White House at the time of the announcement:

The nuclear scientists had close ties to bin Laden and the Taliban;
During repeated UTN visits to Afghanistan, UTN directors and members met with bin Laden, al Qaeda leaders, and Mullah Omar and discussed the development of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons;
UTN has been linked to WAFA Humanitarian Organization and Al Rashid Trust, two other NGOs with ties to al Qaeda that have been designated as supporters of terrorism under Executive Order 13224;
During 2001, Mahmood met with Mullah Omar and bin Laden. During a follow-up meeting where bin Laden's associate indicated he had nuclear material and wanted to know how to use it to make a weapon, Mahmood provided information about the infrastructure needed for a nuclear weapon program and the effects of nuclear weapons; and
After the fall of the Taliban regime, searches of UTN locations in Kabul yielded documents setting out a plan to kidnap a U.S. attaché and outlining basic nuclear physics related to nuclear weapons.

In late January 2002, Pakistan officials said that Pakistan decided not to press criminal charges against Mahmood and Majeed, despite concluding that the scientists violated a secrecy oath during trips to Afghanistan. The main reasons reported in the media were Pakistan's concern that a trial would cause further international embarrassment and risk disclosure of nuclear secrets.

U.S. and Pakistani intelligence officials believe Mahmood provided nuclear assistance to al Qaeda. According to the Washington Times, the CIA refers to Mahmood as "bin Laden's nuclear secretary."62 According to a senior Pakistani intelligence official, "Mahmood's personality profile combined with his meetings with Osama bin Laden, make a lethal blend."63 In other words, Mahmood had both the motive and the means to provide significant assistance to a Taliban or al Qaeda nuclear weapons program.

In the August 2001 meeting, Mahmood and his colleagues appear to have provided al Qaeda a road map to building nuclear weapons. This information is typically very helpful in understanding the steps that must be accomplished in making a nuclear weapon, identifying the necessary equipment and technology, and locating suppliers of key equipment. In addition, Mahmood and his colleagues appear to have recruited other scientists with more direct knowledge of making nuclear weapons.

Transfer of sensitive nuclear weapons information could have happened in many ways. The scientists could have provided direct assistance to al Qaeda's nuclear weapons program, including nuclear weapons and RDD information. They may have obtained secret documents during the course of their career that they passed to the Taliban or al Qaeda. They also could have been a "funnel" through which Pakistani nuclear weapons experts provided sensitive assistance, including documents or technical advice. The transfer of sensitive information by UTN officials or their colleagues may have occurred either in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

UTN officials may have had another advantage. The success of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program depended on extensive illicit foreign procurement. Mahmood headed a large reactor project that also needed to import illicitly or secretly many items, including sensitive technology, materials, components, and manufacturing equipment. He and his colleagues must have had extensive information about procuring sensitive items for a nuclear weapons program.

Several UTN projects were aimed at reestablishing Afghanistan's manufacturing, scientific, and engineering capabilities in universities and industries. Projects focused on such reconstruction could have provided a convenient cover for importing sensitive items for WMD programs. Even if the procurement was illicit, a procurement effort is more likely to succeed if the exporting company believes it is sending items to a civil institution. Because many UTN projects were medical or humanitarian in nature, imports to these projects may have been exempt from the UN embargo on Afghanistan.

Some nuclear dual-use equipment, such as vacuum furnaces, would have been hard to procure, especially for al Qaeda. The involvement of the Pakistani scientists may significantly eased the task of obtaining such equipment.



What we know now that the authors David Albright and Holly Higgins did not know when they wrote this on August 30, 2002 was the extent of nuclear proliferation from A.Q. Khan. Someone in the last thread was wondering about the origin of the phrase "Nuclear Walmart". I believe this is it:

Nuclear experts are aghast at the size of the network, which extends from Switzerland to Japan to Dubai. Over 30 years, Khan put together what Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, called "a veritable Wal-Mart" for nuclear-weapons buyers, a not-so-secret netherworld where proliferation meshed with globalization. Khan even held nuclear-related symposiums. "The horse is out of the barn. At this point, we can't stop the technology from spreading," says former Clinton official Gary Samore. One senior U.S. official told NEWSWEEK that Khan's role in destabilizing the 21st century will "loom up there" with Hitler's and Stalin's impact in the 20th.

Even so, most of the A.Q. Khan network's key operatives will likely escape punishment, officials concede. Khan himself benefits from the delicate politics of the war on terror. Pakistan, not Iraq, is probably the world's most dangerous breeding ground for both WMD and terror. But Pakistan is also a key U.S. ally. U.S. officials had to swallow hard while President Pervez Musharraf only mildly disciplined Khan, a national hero, dismissing him from his ceremonial role as adviser. NEWSWEEK has learned that it was the IAEA, rather than the Bush administration, that first put pressure on Pakistan to force Khan to publicly reveal his central role in the network.

In any case, the most pressing issue may not be how far-flung the A.Q. Khan network is. It is what Khan's promiscuity with nuclear secrets might mean at home in Pakistan. Prior to 9/11, one Pakistani scientist connected to the nuclear-weapons program met Osama bin Laden, who asked him: "Why don't you come and help us build these things?" according to press reports and statements by the scientist's son. The scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, told bin Laden that making a nuke was too complicated, his son says. Mahmood was arrested in November 2001 and held for two months while Pakistani intelligence and the FBI interrogated him. But he, too, was set free.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4270904/


So, the CIA helped expose the nuclear Walmart, yet it was the IAEA, not BushCo, that forced Musharraf to publicly expose Khan's network. Wonder what BushCo had to hide?

I'm looking for more links between A.Q. Khan and Mahmood. This is getting good!

[robertpaulsen]

88. WHOA! The link between Khan, Mahmood & ISI: Lashkar-e-Toiba!

Lashkar-e-Toiba is a terrorist organization with ties to al Qaeda.

THE OMENS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE
by B.Raman

India has little reason to be gratified by the December 20 decision of President George Bush to freeze the assets of the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET). On the contrary, there are valid reasons to be concerned over the written formulation read out by Mr.Bush while announcing the decision.

A careful analysis of Bush's formulation would show that the real purpose is not to meet India's concerns, but to legally pre-empt any Indian campaign for the extension of the current US "war" against terrorism to cover India-centric terrorist training camps in Pakistani territory and any Indian move for retaliatory strikes of its own against LET camps in Pakistan.

The LET is an ahle-hadith terrorist group of Pakistan, consisting of Pakistani, Afghan and Arab cadres, headed by Pakistani office-bearers, with its headquarters at Muridke near Lahore. Its annual conventions at Muridke are attended, amongst others, by serving and retired officers of the Pakistani military and intelligence establishment, by serving and retired scientists of the Pakistani nuclear and missile establishment and by political leaders.

Amongst those, who regularly attend its annual conventions, are Lt. Gen. (retd) Hamid Gul and Lt.Gen.(retd) Javed Nasir, both former Directors-General of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI),Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan, the self-styled father of the Pakistani atom bomb, Dr.Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, the former scientist of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission who was recently detained by the Pakistani authorities under US pressure for being in contact with bin Laden and Mohd.Rafique Tarar, former President of Pakistan.

http://www.saag.org/papers4/paper381.html


Note this article was written when A.Q. Khan was still written of as the "father of the Pakistani atomic bomb" rather than the head of Nuclear Walmart. Again, this nuclear Walmart was exposed by the CIA, but it was the IAEA, not the Bush misadministration, that forced Musharraf's hand into exposing Khan's network.

The big question is WHY? Why was the Bush misadministration reluctant to expose what the CIA had the goods on?

You know, I've got my theories. :)

[shraby]

93. And now we have some

highly classified sensitive computer disks missing at Los Alamos, and this is not the first time in the last year. Don't like the smell of any of it.

What do you suppose the odds are that al Queda has nukes of some sort? Now how would they get them into the country? Our ports have been wide open..they are just now starting to clamp down.

[Pallas180]

100. I don't think Lloyd's of London would

give good odds against that premise Shraby

[shraby]

102. Worse yet, would

Lloyd's of London give our country any kind of insurance now, or are we too much of a nuke target now?

[Pallas180]

106. Shraby, you're the one who found the evidence that

RobertPaulsen is following.


And that's just one link on the site you found.

I think it'll take a strong stomach to follow the rest
of the links on that site.

[shraby]

107. It probably will take a strong

stomach plus an agile mind. There was a lot of info there, that's for sure. My old brain began to get addled with it all. :crazy:

[robertpaulsen]

127. It makes my agile mind dizzy at times!

But thanks for providing the original link. I'll try to find out how this duplicitous cast of characters ties in with the Bush misadministration. It's a daunting task, but I believe we can get to the bottom of this!

:yourock:

[Pallas180]

108. RobertPaulsen-thought you'd enjoy the Veep speech at

www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040317-3.html

Ronald Reagan Memorial

-snip-
"America is also working closely with intelligence services all over the globe. The best intelligence is necessary - not just to win the war on terror, but also to stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. So we have enhanced our intelligence capabilities, in order to trace dangerous weapons activity. We have organized a proliferation security initiative, to interdict lethal materials and technologies in transit. We are aggressively pursuing another dangerous source of proliferation: black-market operatives who sell equipment and expertise related to weapons of mass destruction. The world recently learned of the network led by A.Q. Khan, the former head of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. Khan and his associates sold nuclear technology and know-how to outlaw regimes around the world, including Iran and North Korea. Thanks to the tireless work of intelligence officers from the United States, the UK, Pakistan, and other nations, the Khan network is now being dismantled piece by piece.

And we are applying the Bush doctrine: Any person or government that supports, protects, or harbors terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and will be held to account. (Applause.)


and also at Westminster College

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040426-8.html
America is working closely with intelligence services all over the globe. The best intelligence is necessary -- not just to win the war on terror, but also to stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. So we have enhanced our ability to trace dangerous sources of proliferation, including black-market operations.

The world recently learned of the network led by Mr. A.Q. Khan, the former head of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. Khan and his associates sold nuclear technology and know-how to regimes around the world, including Libya, Iran and North Korea. Thanks to the tireless work of intelligence officers from the United States, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, and other nations, the Khan network is now being dismantled piece by piece. (Applause.)

Hmmm.

The key here is that the Neo Cons and especially those who can profit
from distributio of WMD financially, believe in arms races, cause they get to sell the arms.

They are called counter proliferation - sell to India and give Pakistan the same for stalemate. What they dont seem to understand is
the people they sold to don't care about dying. Plenty of profit in
counter -proliferation.

The group Valerie Plame worked for as I understand it believed in non-proliferation, disamring. No profit in that.

Coveniently confusing to the outsider. Still affirms our theory.



While people

[robertpaulsen]

120. Thanks Pallas! Laughing and grimacing at the same time.

What a way to start a Monday. Cheney somehow manages to lie even when he tells the truth. Of course the intelligence community should be thanked for exposing Khan - at Cheney's expense! Cheney doesn't seem to realize how if the Bush Doctrine were applied to his own behavior, Cheney would be behind bars waiting for a lethal injection.

Reading both mirror speeches, I found it interesting how he mentioned Colonel Ghadafi both times as a War on Terror success story. He's counting on the American public to have a short attention span regarding his own support of a terrorist dictator. So we have to do our best to spread the truth!

[Pallas180]

133. RP Right on !

"Reading both mirror speeches, I found it interesting how he mentioned Colonel Ghadafi both times as a War on Terror success story. He's counting on the American public to have a short attention span regarding his own support of a terrorist dictator. So we have to do our best to spread the truth!"

Exactly. And you're right, maybe we should remind them.

H20??


And RP he fully realizes what would happen if the Bsh Doctrine were
applied to him, but he thinks he is above the law, because Dimson is
his puppet.

Where's that post about his being fined 1.2 million for selling
"components" to LIBYA?

I think we should send the paragraph with link about his being
fined for Libya, along with his current graduation speech to the
media. What do you think.

My goodness we're doing a more polite "freeper" action response!
LOL

[H2O Man]

139. Think about this:

We have at least five distinct reasons for the administration creating a war pretext in Iraq. We have several leads on the sale of WMDs. If we were to try to make a flow-chart, with foot notes and connections, just to track the weapons, it can make your head spin. That's exactly what happened to Garrison in New Orleans, right? He had an idea, and started to follow the leads .... until he found there were so many that he was getting bogged down.

Man X helped focus Garrison on the why & who benefits, and then he was able to select a couple good leads to follow.

Now, this lead .... if I were a betting man, I'd think it's pretty likely to pay off. It seems to be a comfortable fit. Worth looking in to some more. It may not be the most direct route, but even if it leads us back towards Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, it might be a big piece of a puzzle.

[robertpaulsen]

153. Hmm...Cheney sold Libya nuclear components, so did Khan.

Cheney can qualify that by saying they were "dual-use" components (though that qualification is a terrible defense, thus Cheney chooses to forget it ever happened) but the fact is Cheney and Khan were both playing the same game with the Colonel.

I wonder how many times Halliburton and Khan associates crossed paths in Libya?

I'll let you know if I find anything. :)

[Pallas180]

157. RP. Here's the question. Who supplied Khan?

ahem....

certain componenets are needed to make that thing go boom.

Khan did not manufacture them.

But he could have ordered them.

Especially through a University research organization ordering
them making it look like it was for the University.

What universities was Khan associated with?

And what universities did Halliburton or its affiliates sell?

But RP, there are so many affiliates, shells, it would be
dizzying.

Let me see if I can find that link to the 250 Halli companies
under various names on #12.

I'll be back....as the gropenator said. :) hee hee

[robertpaulsen]

161. Not finding anything concrete, but this is interesting.

Found this at Pakistan Facts, where I got the dirt on Cheney's ties with A.Q. Khan:

Sleeping with the Nuclear Snake

snip
Another point that the US seems to be ignoring is the critical role the nuclear underground has in Pakistan's nuclear program. Because of its weak indigenous scientific capacity, Pakistan has long relied on Western sources for sophisticated nuclear components. Even as the A.Q.Khan saga was unfolding, US Federal prosecutors were looking at the case of a South Africa based middleman who was caught in a sting operation sending nuclear bomb triggers to Pakistan. A UPI report mentioned that the South African's Pakistani contact was a person with ties to Pakistani intelligence. Clearly, for Gen.Musharraf to cooperate in dismantling the nuclear network would require him to give up details of his own army and intelligence service's hitherto secret ties to the nuclear underworld. In addition, were this network be dismantled, Pakistan would lose is nuclear component supply chain, bringing its nuclear weapons program to a grinding halt.

In this context, it is very likely that Gen.Musharraf's nuclear cooperation would be like his efforts in the terror and madrassa front - give misleading clues and eliminate low level expendable assets so that the Pakistani army interests are left unharmed, while doing just enough for America not to dump him totally. How does that help US National Security? The fact is that US policymakers have totally failed to grasp one point. American national security and Pakistani army interests are completely divergent. No amount of co-opting would make the Pakistani army destroy the nuclear proliferation or terrorist networks and logically so. Having a world devoid of pan-Islamic terrorists and a nuclear netherworld is simply not in the interests of the Pakistani establishment.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/20040307172416552

Western sources? I think we're on the right track.

[robertpaulsen]

168. Sorry to widen the SCOPE of Khan's Nuclear Walmart.

Looks like Malaysia has been conducting an investigation into nuclear proliferation. This source details the connections of B.S.A. Tahir, Khan's financial officer and money launderer.

NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION-ROLE OF MALAYSIA

The Malaysian investigations:
BSA TAHIR, a SRI LANKAN businessman based in DUBAI was a trusted and close
confidante of A. Q. Khan and was actively involved in supplying centrifuge
components for Libya's uranium-enrichment program. BSA TAHIR, who was
involved in the business of SCOMI PRECISION ENGINEERING SDN BHD (SCOPE). He
used the company to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the
uranium enrichment program. However, investigations have revealed that the
components, on their own, cannot form a complete centrifuge unit. In this
context, it has to be noted that SCOPE is a subsidiary of SCOMI GROUP BHD,
i.e. a company involved in the petroleum services industry. As a subsidiary,
SCOPE is also involved in precision engineering services, which involves the
production of components for a variety of equipments including parts for
cars, petroleum and gas. This makes evident that SCOPE could not be labeled
as a company directly involved in nuclear proliferation.

Furthermore, the supply of components by middlemen was carried out in a
discreet manner and involved suppliers from other countries to blur the
sources of the components. Some of the suppliers were believed to be aware
that these components could be for uranium enrichment centrifuges. Generally
these suppliers mostly from Europe were those who had dealings with the
nuclear expert since the 1980s, at a time when PAKISTAN was developing its
nuclear technology. There were a number of individuals and companies which
supplied the components but were unaware of the implications because some of
the components were similar to components used in oil drilling, water
treatment and equipment for several other general use.

http://icssa.org/Nuclear_Malaysia.htm

This source shows that while middlemen tried to blur the source of the components, they can be traced to suppliers from Germany, Switzerland, Turkey and the United Kingdom.

Now, if we can connect any of these countries, or these names:
HEINZ MEBUS
GOTTHARD LERCH
LEYBOLD HERAEUS (German company)
GUNAS JIREH
SELIM ALGUADIS
PETER GRIFFIN
Machine Shop 1001 Project
FRIEDRICH TINNER
URS FRIEDRICH TINNER
CETEC (Swiss company)

to any of the 250 Halliburton subsidiaries, then we've got a story.

[Pallas180]

187. RP - does this help any?

"Malaysian Industrial Development Authority
... The agreement is between Scomi’s wholly-owned Kota Minerals & Chemicals Sdn ... Cognis
and Baroid (part of the Halliburton Group) now hold worldwide patents for ... "


It's a corporate game. Incorporate in different states, different countries, under different names, as divisions of or as separate companies.

In other words, HalliburtonUSA supplies Baroid, United Kingdom.

but Baroid, United Kingdom is really Halliburton USA

Then Baroid, which has no sanctions list sells to: whoever they damn well please.

Shell game. Shell corporation owns shell which owns another shell
which owns anothe shell...and each sells to the other to befuddle
the trail....

[robertpaulsen]

210. Pallas! Great job!

I wasn't sure if I would find any follow up on those links this morning, but wow, did you come through, Pallas! Do you have a link for that quote, is it from thread 12? This is fantastic! A straight line can be drawn from Dick Cheney to A.Q. Khan.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Thank you so much, Pallas! President Kerry should give you a medal.

:pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals: :pals:

[robertpaulsen]

214. I found a couple links for your quote.

Not a straight line, they are definitely masters at obscuring the truth, but definitely a connection.

http://www.mida.gov.my/beta/news/view_news.php?id=398

http://www.scomigroup.com.my/website/html_new/menu4/n_060603nstp.html

Again, great find Pallas!

[shraby]

217. Here is a list of companies who

got contracts for World Bank fossil fuel project funding
from 1992 to 1997. Maybe some of the old info will show contacts to Halliburton on company web pages because it's before the Halliburton controversy.

<http://www.seen.org/pages/ifis/wbreport1/appendix-2.en.shtml>

[robertpaulsen]

220. Thanks shraby!

This was an interesting bit of info on your link:

Halliburton (US) Algeria $1,894,497 95 6 mud cabins for First Petroleum project.

Halliburton Energy Services China $1,911,209 95 3 sets of drilling tools for Sichuan gas development project.


Hmm...drilling tools. Didn't they try selling that to Libya?

I'll look into it deeper.

[shraby]

232. I saw that and thought that is a lot

of money for 6 mud cabins, also a lot for 3 sets of drilling tools. What gives on that?????

[shraby]

219. Where is the link from

Baroid to Kahn?

[robertpaulsen]

227. Here's the serpentine link.

A.Q. Khan's financial officer (money launderer) was B.S.A. Tahir.

Tahir used SCOPE, a subsidiary of Scomi, to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the uranium enrichment program.

Scomi, through its company KMC, worked with Cognis Oleochemicals.

Cognis is connected with Baroid (part of the Halliburton Group).

Halliburton...well, you know the rest.


Like I said, it's a serpentine link, and the guilty parties have done their best to make their tracks obscure. But I think there is enough circumstantial evidence here to warrant an investigation.

[shraby]

231. All I can say is.....

they're good at what they do. Can something be written up with references to the articles so it can be sent to the proper authorities like Judicial Watch and to other news people?

[Pallas180]

235. Schraby - I would

not even send Judicial Watch dog doo doo.

He's that creep that represented Paula whatsherface and started
the suits against Big Dawg.

All his funding came from Mellon-Scaiffe - the worst extremist
right winger in the country where much of their funding came from.

That was Scaife's reporter that Heinz-Kerry blew her cool at.
They have begun to give her the buisness like they did to Hillary
and Bill.

I wonder if she has more money that Scaife?

[shraby]

241. I wondered because that's

who is bringing a suit against Halliburton.

[robertpaulsen]

249. I'd like to do that.

Pallas also asked for a letter to send out EVERYWHERE. I'm going to go over all the Plame Threads (warning: this may take several days) and find all the pertinent articles to reference in a letter to be written to everyone who can spread the word (media, politicians, activists) and everyone who can investigate (prosecutors, investigators) to bring these criminals to justice. We've got the border of the puzzle and we're starting to see what the whole picture is all about. But we need others to help us fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle.

I think it's important to make everyone aware that this is an ongoing investigation and that the leads we have uncovered need to be completely explored. We've got the circumstantial evidence, it's their job to find the proof. I want to incorporate a lot of the facts and ideas from the Waterman Paper, as well as his brilliant structure, and use it as the foundation from which to build the case.

Any other ideas on how to go about putting this letter together? What should we call this? Son of Waterman? :)

[Pallas180]

233. ROBERTPAULSEN & SCHRABY - 250 +Halliburton shells-Cayman Islands too

http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/courses/ed253a/halliburton.html

but only as of 2000/2001

and take a look at the Board of Directors, such as Eagleburger,
other names I don't recognize, but it would be interesting to find
their previous service in government maybe?

Several of the companies have BAROID in their name.

ABERDEEN CARGO HANDLING SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ACN 052 291 264 PTY
LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

ACN 005 585 795 PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

ACN 009 091 105 PTY
LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

ADUTE PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

AL-RUSHAID TAYLOR DIVING LTD.
(SAUDI ARABIA)

AMERICAN THAI BARITE LTD. (THAILAND)

AOC AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

AOC BROWN & ROOT CANADA LTD. (CANADA)

AOC CANADA LTD.
(CANADA)

AOC HOPKINSONS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

AOC INTERNATIONAL LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

AOC NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

AOC SERVICES LTD. (JERSEY)

AOC TECHNICAL
SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

AOC TURBINE SERVICES LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

AOC/WOOD OFFSHORE CONTRACTORS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

AOCI NEW LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

ARABIAN MINERALS & CHEMICALS LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

ARABIAN
PIPECOATING COMPANY LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

ARABIAN ROCKBITS & DRILLING TOOLS
COMPANY, LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

ARABIAN SHAW PIPECOATERS (THAILAND) LTD.
(THAILAND)

ARCTIC PACIFIC CONTRACTORS (UK) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ARCTIC
PACIFIC CONTRACTORS INTERNATIONAL, LLC (UNITED STATES)

AS-BUILT SOLUTIONS
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ASIA ENERGY SERVICES SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

ASIA PACIFIC
CONTRACTING PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

ASIA PACIFIC TRANSPORT FINANCE PTY LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

ASIA PACIFIC TRANSPORT PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

ASIAN MARINE
CONTRACTORS LTD. (MAURITIUS)

ATLANTIC MINERALS & PRODUCTS CORP. (UNITED
STATES)

AVA (U.K.) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

AVA SARL (FRANCE)

AVALON FINANCIAL
SERVICES, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

AWE PLC (UNITED KINGDOM)

AXELSON PUMP CO.
(UNITED STATES)

AXELSON-KUBAN LLC (CIS)

B&R-G5 INDUSTRIAL SERVICES
(PROPRIETARY) LTD. (SOUTH AFRICA)

B. THORNTON, LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BAKHSH
KELLOGG SAUDI ARABIA LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

BAROID (FAR EAST) PTE. LTD.
(SINGAPORE)

BAROID (SAUDI ARABIA) LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

BAROID AUSTRALIA PTY.
LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BAROID CARIBBEAN LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

BAROID CORP. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

BAROID DE VENEZUELA, SA (VENEZUELA)

BAROID DRILLING CHEMICAL
PRODUCTS LTD. (NIGERIA)

BAROID GMBH (GERMANY)

BAROID INTERNATIONAL, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

BAROID INTERNATIONAL TRADING CORP. (UNITED STATES)

BAROID
INTERNATIONAL, SPA (ITALY)

BAROID LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BAROID NIGERIA, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

BAROID OF NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

BAROID PIGMINA INDUSTRIAL E
COMERCIAL LTDA (BRAZIL)

BAROID SARL (TUNISIA)

BAROID SALES EXPORT CORP.
(UNITED STATES)

BAROID SERVICES SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

BAROID TECHNOLOGY, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

BAROID TRINIDAD SERVICES LTD. (TRINIDAD)

BAROID/VIDCO, LLC
(UNITED STATES)

BETEX BV (NETHERLANDS)

BHPE-KINHILL (INDIA) PRIVATE LTD.
(INDIA)

BITC HOLDINGS (US) LLC (UNITED STATES)

BITC (US) LLC (UNITED STATES)
BLUEFOIL LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BONNY PROJECT MANAGEMENT COMPANY LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

BRAMA BROWN & ROOT & MARSHALL AEROSPACE LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

BREDERO PRICE BRASIL LTDA (BRAZIL)

BREDERO PRICE COATERS LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

BREDERO PRICE COATERS (THAILAND) LTD. (THAILAND)

BREDERO PRICE
COLOMBIA BV (NETHERLANDS)

BREDERO PRICE CO. (UNITED STATES)

BREDERO PRICE
CUSTOM COATINGS LTD. (CYPRUS)

BREDERO PRICE DE MEXICO SA DE CV
(MEXICO)

BREDERO PRICE HOLDING BV (NETHERLANDS)

BREDERO PRICE INTERNATIONAL
BV (NETHERLANDS)

BREDERO PRICE ITALY SRL (ITALY)

BREDERO PRICE PIPECOATERS
(THAILAND) LTD. (THAILAND)

BREDERO PRICE PIPECOATERS BV
(NETHERLANDS)

BREDERO PRICE SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BREDERO-PRICE
SINGAPORE PTE LTD. (SINGAPORE)

BREDERO SHAW AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

BREDERO-SHAW CO. (CANADA)

BREDERO-SHAW, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

BREDERO-SHAW, SL (SPAIN)

BREDERO-SHAW INTERNATIONAL LTD.
(BARBADOS)

BRESWATER MARINE CONTRACTING BV (NETHERLANDS)

BRITISH PLEUGER
SUBMERSIBLE PUMPS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BRITISH UNDERWATER ENGINEERING LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT (ASIA PACIFIC) PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

BROWN &
ROOT (GULF) EC (BAHRAIN)

BROWN & ROOT (LABUAN) SENDIRIAN BERHAD
(MALAYSIA)

BROWN & ROOT (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

BROWN & ROOT
(OVERSEAS) LTD. (JERSEY)

BROWN & ROOT (S) PTE LTD. (SINGAPORE)

BROWN & ROOT
(SERVICES) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT-MURPHY, LLC (UNITED
STATES)

BROWN & ROOT AOC LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT BANGLADESH LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT CAYMAN HOLDINGS, INC. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

BROWN &
ROOT CONSTRUCTION (OVERSEAS) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT CONSTRUCTION
PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT EALING TECHNICAL SERVICES LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT ENERGY SERVICES (INDIA) PRIVATE LTD. (INDIA)

BROWN &
ROOT ENGINEERING SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

BROWN & ROOT ESPANOLA, SA
(SPAIN)

BROWN & ROOT GEMSA, SA (VENEZUELA)

BROWN & ROOT HIGHLANDS
FABRICATORS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT INDUSTRIAL SERVICES
PHILIPPINES INC. (PHILIPPINES)

BROWN & ROOT INGENIEROS PETROLEROS DE
VENEZUELA, CA (VENEZUELA)

BROWN & ROOT INTERNATIONAL EASTERN, INC.
(PANAMA)

BROWN & ROOT INVESTMENTS (NO. 1) PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT
MAINTENANCE, INC. (PANAMA)

BROWN & ROOT MANAGEMENT LTD. (CANADA)

BROWN &
ROOT MID EAST LLC (OMAN)

BROWN & ROOT N.A. LTD. (BRITISH VIRGIN
ISLANDS)

BROWN & ROOT NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

BROWN & ROOT OPERATIONS PTY
LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT PROJECTS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT
PROJECTS (NO. 1) PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT PROJECTS PTY LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

BROWN & ROOT SAUDI LIMITED
CO. (SAUDI ARABIA)

BROWN & ROOT SERVICIOS INDUSTRIALES, INC. (PANAMA)

BROWN
& ROOT TECHNOLOGY (NO. 2) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT TECHNOLOGY LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

BROWN & ROOT TOLL ROAD INVESTMENT PARTNERS, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

BROWN & ROOT, BOOZ-ALLEN LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BUCHAN FABRICATIONS
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

BUE SHIPS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

CARIBBEAN NITROGEN
COMPANY LTD. (TRINIDAD)

CARIBBEAN NITROGEN COMPANY LTD. (TOBAGO)

CASPIAN
TRANSCO INC. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

CCC CAYMAN, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

CEBAR SDN.
BHD. (BRUNEI)

CEBO BOHRMATERIALEN GMBH (GERMANY)

CEBO CYPRUS LTD.
(CYPRUS)

CEBO HOLLAND BV (NETHERLANDS)

CEBO INTERNATIONAL BV
(NETHERLANDS)

CEBO MARINE BV (NETHERLANDS)

CEBO OFFSHORE SERVICES SDN. BHD.
(MALAYSIA)

CEBO U.K. LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

CHALFONT LTD.
(CYPRUS)

CHEMTRONICS, INC. (UNITED STATES)

CNOOC-OTIS WELL COMPLETION
SERVICES LTD. (CHINA)

COMBISA, S DE RL DE CV (MEXICO)

COMMERCIAL RESINS DE
MEXICO, SA DE CV (MEXICO)

COMPANIA DE SERVICIOS NMR, SA (ARGENTINA)

COMPANIA
TRANSANDINA DE EXPORTACION, INC. (UNITED STATES)

COMPRESSION COAT
INTERNATIONAL LTD.

CONKEL, S DE RL DE CV (MEXICO)

CONSORCIO CONTRINA LLC
(UNITED KINGDOM)

CONSTRUCTORA INDOLATINA, SA DE CV (MEXICO)

CONSTRUCTORES DE
VENEZUELA, BROWN & ROOT, INC., CA (VENEZUELA)

CYRIL LEA & ASSOCIATES LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

DB STRATABIT GMBH (GERMANY)

DB STRATABIT LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

DB STRATABIT PTE LTD. (SINGAPORE)

DB STRATABIT SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)
DDPS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

D. HOLMES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DEVONPORT
ENGINEERING SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DEVONPORT MANAGEMENT LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

DEVONPORT ROYAL DOCKYARD LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DEVONPORT ROYAL
DOCKYARD PENSION TRUSTEES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DORHOLD LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)


DRESSER (ALGERIA) INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER AG (LIECHTENSTEIN)

DRESSER
ANSTALT (LIECHTENSTEIN)

DRESSER AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

DRESSER BV
(NETHERLANDS)

DRESSER CAMEROON SARL (CAMEROON)

DRESSER CASPIAN, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

DRESSER CONGO SARL (CONGO)

DRESSER CORP. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER DEL
ECUADOR SA (ECUADOR)

DRESSER FAR EAST, INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER FOREIGN
SALES CORPORATION LTD. (GUAM)

DRESSER HOLDING, INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER
INDUSTRIA, SA (BOLIVIA)

DRESSER INDUSTRIES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER
INDUSTRIES-RUS (CIS)

DRESSER INTERNATIONAL SALES CORP. (DELAWARE)

DRESSER
INVESTMENTS NV (NETHERLANDS ANTILLES)

DRESSER IRELAND FINANCE CO.
(IRELAND)

DRESSER KELLOGG ENERGY SERVICES (NIGERIA) LTD. (NIGERIA)

DRESSER
KELLOGG ENERGY SERVICES (S. AFRICA) (PROPRIETA. (SOUTH AFRICA)

DRESSER
KELLOGG ENERGY SERVICES CORP. (PANAMA)

DRESSER KELLOGG ENERGY SERVICES INC.
(UNITED STATES)

DRESSER KELLOGG ENERGY SERVICES LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

DRESSER KELLOGG SOUTH AFRICA LTD. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER MINERALS
INTERNATIONAL, INC. (TEXAS)

DRESSER OIL TOOLS ARABIA LIMITED CO. (SAUDIA
ARABIA)

DRESSER OIL TOOLS, INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER OILFIELD GABON SARL
(GABON)

DRESSER OILFIELD OPERATIONS (NIGERIA) INC. (UNITED STATES)

DRESSER
OILFIELD SERVICES BV (NETHERLANDS)

DRESSER OILFIELD SERVICES, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

DRESSER SOUTH AFRICA (PROPRIETARY) LTD. (SOUTH AFRICA)

DRESSER
SOVIET ENGINEERING (CIS)

DRESSER U.K. LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DRESSER U.K.
PENSIONS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

DRESSER-SHAW CO. (CANADA)

DRILLING FLUIDS
TECHNOLOGY AS (NORWAY)

DS CONTROLS, RUSSIA (RUSSIA)

EMC NEDERLAND BV
(NETHERLANDS)

ENVENTURE GLOBAL TECHNOLOGY, LLC (UNITED STATES)

EUROPEAN
MARINE CONTRACTORS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

EUROPEAN MARINE CONTRACTORS LLC
(UNITED STATES)

FANN INSTRUMENT CO. (UNITED STATES)

FARGO ENGINEERING CO.
(UNITED STATES)

FASTEX DEFENCE SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

FASTFLOW
SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

FASTTRAX LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

FREIGHT LINK
PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

G&H MANAGEMENT LLC (UNITED STATES)

GAZDMD AVTOMATIKA
(CIS)

GB SUBWORK BV (NETHERLANDS)

GEARHART (UNITED KINGDOM) LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

GEARHART WELL EVALUATION LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

GEOPHYSICAL SERVICE
EUROPE CO. LTD. (HUNGARY)

GEORGE STREET PARADE LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

GEOSOURCE EPIG SERVICES COMPANY LTD. (SUDAN)

GEOSOURCE
INTERNATIONAL (NEDERLAND) BV (NETHERLANDS)

GLOBAL DRILLING SERVICES, INC.
(PANAMA)

GO TURKEY SA (ISLE OF NEVIS)

GRANHERNE, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

GRANHERNE & CO LLC (OMAN)

GRANHERNE (HOLDINGS) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)
GRANHERNE INFORMATION SYSTEMS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

GRANHERNE INTERNATIONAL
(HOLDINGS) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

GRANHERNE INTERNATIONAL LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

GRANHERNE LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

GRANHERNE SDN. BHD.
(MALAYSIA)

GREEN SEA OPERATIONS AS (NORWAY)

GROVE TK LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON (PROPRIETARY) LTD. (SOUTH AFRICA)

HALLIBURTON (U.K.)
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON ACQUISITIONS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON AFFILIATES CORP. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON ARGENTINA
SA (ARGENTINA)

HALLIBURTON ARKHANGELSK, LTD. (RUSSIA)

HALLIBURTON AS (NORWAY)


HALLIBURTON AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

HALLIBURTON BV
(NETHERLANDS)

HALLIBURTON BROWN & ROOT INTERNATIONAL LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON BROWN & ROOT LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON C.I.C.S.
INC. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON CIMENTACAO LTDA (BRAZIL)

HALLIBURTON CO.
(UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON COMPANY AUSTRIA GMBH (AUSTRIA)

HALLIBURTON
COMPANY GERMANY GMBH (GERMANY)

HALLIBURTON COMPANY U.K. LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)


HALLIBURTON CONSULTING SERVICES NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

HALLIBURTON DE
MEXICO, SA DE CV (MEXICO)

HALLIBURTON DEL AMAZONAS SA (PERU)

HALLIBURTON DEL
PERU SA (PERU)

HALLIBURTON DENMARK AS (DENMARK)

HALLIBURTON DH LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY DEVELOPMENT (KAZAKHSTAN) LTD. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY DEVELOPMENT (KAZAKHSTAN), INC. (UNITED
STATES)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY DEVELOPMENT (NORTH SEA), INC. (UNITED
STATES)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY DEVELOPMENT LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON
ENERGY SERVICES (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY SERVICES
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY SERVICES NIGERIA LTD.
(NIGERIA)

HALLIBURTON ENERGY SERVICES ROMANIA SRL (ROMANIA)

HALLIBURTON
ENERGY SERVICES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON EPC-22 HOLDINGS, S DE RL
DE CV (MEXICO)

HALLIBURTON EQUIPMENT COMPANY SAE (EGYPT)

HALLIBURTON
ESPANOLA SA (SPAIN)

HALLIBURTON FAR EAST PTE LTD. (SINGAPORE)

HALLIBURTON
GEODATA (OVERSEAS) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON GEODATA LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON GLOBAL, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON GROUP CANADA
INC. (CANADA)

HALLIBURTON HOLDING BV (NETHERLANDS)

HALLIBURTON HOLDING
GERMANY GMBH (GERMANY)

HALLIBURTON HOLDINGS AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

HALLIBURTON HOLDINGS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON I CAYMAN,
LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON II CAYMAN, LTD. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON IMCO (CAMEROON) SARL (CAMEROON)

HALLIBURTON IMCO (GABON)
SARL (GABON)

HALLIBURTON INTERNATIONAL GMBH (AUSTRIA)

HALLIBURTON
INTERNATIONAL, INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON ITALIANA SPA
(ITALY)

HALLIBURTON KAZAKHSTAN OILFIELD SERVICES, LTD.
(KAZAKHSTAN)

HALLIBURTON KBR OPERATIONS PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

HALLIBURTON KBR
PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

HALLIBURTON KBR PRODUCTION SERVICES PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)


HALLIBURTON KBR WATER SERVICES PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

HALLIBURTON LATIN
AMERICA SA (PANAMA)

HALLIBURTON LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON LOGGING
SERVICES (M) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

HALLIBURTON MANUFACTURING & SERVICES LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON MANUFACTURING (SINGAPORE) PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)
HALLIBURTON MULTINATIONAL, INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON NEW ZEALAND LTD.
(NEW ZEALAND)

HALLIBURTON NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

HALLIBURTON NUS CORP.
(UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON OFFSHORE SERVICES, INC. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON OIL SERVICES VIETNAM LTD. (VIETNAM)

HALLIBURTON
OILFIELD SERVICES INDIA LTD. (INDIA)

HALLIBURTON OILFIELD SERVICES LTD.
(RUSSIA)

HALLIBURTON OPERATIONS NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

HALLIBURTON OVERSEAS
LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON PARTNERS CANADA LTD. (CANADA)

HALLIBURTON
PENSION TRUSTEE LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON PRODUCTS & SERVICES LTD.
(CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON PRODUTOS LTDA (BRAZIL)

HALLIBURTON REAL ESTATE
SERVICES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON SAS (FRANCE)

HALLIBURTON S.C.,
INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON SAUDI LOGGING LLC (SAUDI
ARABIA)

HALLIBURTON SERVICES (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

HALLIBURTON
SERVICIOS (CHILE) LTDA (CHILE)

HALLIBURTON SERVICOS LTDA
(BRAZIL)

HALLIBURTON SINGAPORE PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

HALLIBURTON TECHNICAL
SERVICES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

HALLIBURTON TESEL LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HALLIBURTON TRINIDAD LTD. (TRINIDAD)

HALLIBURTON TUNISIA (OFFSHORE)
LTD. (TUNISIA)

HALLIBURTON WEST AFRICA LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON
WORLDWIDE LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON WORLDWIDE SERVICES, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

HALLIBURTON Z, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HALLIBURTON-ATYRAU OIL & GAS
SERVICES (KAZAKHSTAN)

HALSON FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

HBR
(THAILAND) LTD. (THAILAND)

HBR ASIA CONTRACTORS LTD. (HONG KONG)

HBR ENERGY,
INC. (UNITED STATES)

HBR NL HOLDINGS, LLC

HED (INDONESIA), INC. (UNITED
STATES)

HGS ENTERPRISES INC. (PANAMA)

HGS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HLS INDIA
LTD. (INDIA)

HLS NIGERIA LTD. (NIGERIA)

HMB SUBWORK LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

HOBBYMARKT CAPELLE BV (NETHERLANDS)

HOBBYMARKT CAPELLE DE MEXICO,
SA DE CV (MEXICO)

HOLMES BLOWERS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS &
PARTNERS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS (KENYA) LTD. (KENYA)

HOWARD
HUMPHREYS (TANZANIA) LTD. (TANZANIA)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS (UGANDA) LTD. (UGANDA)
HOWARD HUMPHREYS (ZIMBABWE) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS GROUP
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HOWARD
HUMPHREYS PROJECT MANAGEMENT (HK) LTD. (HONG KONG)

HOWARD HUMPHREYS PROJECT
MANAGEMENT LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

HUAMEI HALLIBURTON PETROLEUM TECHNICAL
SERVICE CO. LTD. (CHINA)

HUNTING-BRAE LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ILEX
TECHNOLOGIES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

INTEGRATED DOCUMATICS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

INTEGRATED POWER SERVICES PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

INTERNATIONAL
ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

INTERNATIONAL AUTOMATIVE
TECHNOLOGIES, LLC (UNITED STATES)

IPEM DEVELOPMENTS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

JET RESEARCH CENTER, INC. (UNITED STATES)

JET RESEARCH CORP.
(UNITED STATES)

KAPEQ TRADING LTD. (CYPRUS)

KBR CALEDONIA LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

KBR DE MONTEREY SA DE CV (MEXICO)

KBR DEVELOPMENT CORP. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

KBR/TECHNIP, LLC (UNITED STATES)

KBRDC CNC (CAYMAN) LTD. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

KBRDC NITROGEN 2000 (CAYMAN) LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

KBRDC NITROGEN
2000 (ST. LUCIA) LTD. (ST. LUCIA)

K INTERNATIONAL ENGINEERS PTY LTD.

KELLOGG
(MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

KELLOGG AFRICA GROWTH FUND INC. (UNITED
STATES)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT ALGERIA INC. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG BROWN &
ROOT CONSULTANCY (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT
ENGINEERING CORP. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT FAR EAST, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT GMBH (GERMANY)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT,
INC. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT INDIA LTD. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG
BROWN & ROOT INTERNATIONAL, INC. (DELAWARE)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT
INTERNATIONAL, INC. (PANAMA)

KELLOGG BROWN & ROOT LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

KELLOGG CARDON, CA (VENEZUELA)

KELLOGG CHINA INC. (UNITED
STATES)

KELLOGG CHIYODA SERVICES LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

KELLOGG CONSTRUCTION
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

KELLOGG FRANCE, SA (FRANCE)

KELLOGG INTERNATIONAL
SERVICES CORP. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG INTERNATIONAL SERVICES LTD. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

KELLOGG IRAN, INC. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG ISL LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)


KELLOGG KOREA, INC. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG MALAYSIA, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

KELLOGG MEXICO, INC. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG MIDDLE EAST LTD.
(UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG OFFSHORE LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

KELLOGG OVERSEAS
CORP. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG PAN AMERICAN, CA (VENEZUELA)

KELLOGG PAN
AMERICAN CORP. (UNITED STATES)

KELLOGG SAUDI ARABIA LTD. (UNITED
STATES)

KELLOGG SERVICES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

KESTREL SUBSEA SYSTEMS LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

KINHILL BUILDING INVESTIGATION PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

KINHILL
HOLDINGS PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

KINHILL INDIA PRIVATE LTD. (INDIA)

KINHILL
INVESTMENTS PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

KINHILL PACIFIC PTY. LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

KINHILL PAKISTAN (PRIVATE) LTD. (PAKISTAN)

KINHILL PNG LTD. (NEW
GUINEA)

KINHILL PTE LTD. (SINGAPORE)

KINHILL SAGRIC PTY LTD.
(AUSTRALIA)

KINHILL SUPERANNUATION NOMINEES PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

KPA, SA DE
CV (MEXICO)

KRSA LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

KRW ENERGY SYSTEMS INC. (UNITED
STATES)

LANDMARK AMERICA LATINA, SA (PANAMA)

LANDMARK DE MEXICO, SA DE CV
(MEXICO)

LANDMARK EAME, LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS COLOMBIA SA
(COLOMBIA)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS CORP. (UNITED STATES)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS DO
BRASIL LTDA (BRAZIL)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS EUROPE/AFRICA, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS INTERNATIONAL, INC. (UNITED STATES)

LANDMARK
GRAPHICS (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS (NIGERIA) LTD.
(NIGERIA)

LANDMARK GRAPHICS VENEZUELA CA (VENEZUELA)

LAUREL FINANCIAL
SERVICES BV (NETHERLANDS)

LAUT-AOC SDN. BHD. (BRUNEI)

LCL KNIGHTSBRIDGE LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

LIAOHE HALLIBURTON FLOW MEASUREMENT CO. (CHINA)

LMK
RESOURCES (MAURITIUS)

LMK RESOURCES PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD. (PAKISTAN)

LNG
SERVICOS E GESTAO DE PROJECTOS LTDA (PORTUGAL)

M. W. KELLOGG COMPANY LTD.
(CANADA)

M. W. KELLOGG CONSTRUCTORS INC. (UNITED STATES)

M. W. KELLOGG GROUP
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

M. W. KELLOGG INTERNATIONAL LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

M.
W. KELLOGG LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

M. W. KELLOGG PENSIONS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)


M. W. KELLOGG TECHNOLOGY CO. (UNITED STATES)

MAGIC EARTH, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

MAGIC EARTH, LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MANAGEMENT LOGISTICS, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

MANTENIMIENTO MARINO DE MEXICO, S DE RL DE CV
(MEXICO)

MAREND LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MASHHOR WELL SERVICES SDN. BHD.
(BRUNEI)

MASONEILAN INTERNATIONAL, LLC (UNITED STATES)

MID-VALLEY, INC.
(UNITED STATES)

MIDDLE EAST TECHNOLOGIES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

MILLENNIUM
LINK LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MONENCO OFFSHORE LTD. (CANADA)

MONO GROUP (UNITED
KINGDOM)

MONO GROUP PENSION TRUSTEES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MONO PUMPS
(AUSTRALIA) PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

MONO PUMPS (ENGINEERING) LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

MONO PUMPS (MANFACTURING) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MONO PUMPS (NEW
ZEALAND) LTD. (NEW ZEALAND)

MONO PUMPS (U.K.) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MONO
PUMPS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

MONOFLO, INC. (UNITED STATES)

MOROCCAN ENGINEERS
& CONSTRUCTORS (MOROCCO)

NEDERLANDS BEDRIJFSKLEDING SERVICE BV (NETHERLANDS)
NEW OCEAN CONTRACTORS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

NIBOD MINES LTD. (NIGERIA)

NILE
OILFIELD ENGINEERING LTD. (SUDAN)

NL BAROID (CAMEROON) SARL (CAMEROON)

NL DO
BRAZIL LTDA (BRAZIL)

NL OVERSEAS SERVICE COMPANY LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

NORSK
MODIFIKAJON OG VEDLIKEHOLD SERVICE AS (NORWAY)

NORTH SEA ASSETS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

NUMALOG, LTD. (ISRAEL)

NUMAR UK LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

NUS OF
MARYLAND, INC. (UNITED STATES)

OGC INTERNATIONAL LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

OILFIELD TELECOMMUNICATIONS, INC. (UNITED STATES)

OTIS ENGINEERING
ITALIANA SRL (ITALY)

OVERSEAS ADMINISTRATION SERVICES, LTD. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)
OVERSEAS MARINE LEASING CO. (UNITED STATES)

P.T. BAROID (INDONESIA)

P.T.
BREDERO PRICE (INDONESIA)

P.T. BROWN & ROOT (INDONESIA)

P.T. HALLIBURTON
DRILLING SYSTEMS (INDONESIA)

P.T. HALLIBURTON (INDONESIA)

P.T. HALLIBURTON
LOGGING SERVICES (INDONESIA)

P.T. INDOKOR SPERRY-SUN (INDONESIA)

P.T. JAYA
KINHILL ARKONIN (INDONESIA)

P.T. KINHILL (INDONESIA)

P.T. LANDMARK
CONCURRENT SOLUSI (INDONESIA)

P.T. NUMAR (INDONESIA)

P.T. SECURITY MULIA
(INDONESIA)

P.T. UDEMCO OTIS (INDONESIA)

PACE AS (NORWAY)

PALOAK LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

PES FRANCE (FRANCE)

PES NETHERLANDS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

P.E.S. PETROQUIP LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

P.E.S. PETROSEAL LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

P.E.S. PETROSERV LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

P.E.S. PETROSPEC
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

PES TRUSTEES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

PETROLEUM
ENGINEERING SERVICES (ITALIA) SRL (ITALY)

PETROLEUM ENGINEERING SERVICES
ASIA PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

PETROLEUM ENGINEERING SERVICES LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

PETROLEUM ENGINEERING SERVICES NORGE AS (NORWAY)

PETROLEUM
INFORMATION & EQUIPMENT SERVICES PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

PETROLEUM
MANUFACTURING SERVICES LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

PETRODATA AS
(NORWAY)

PETROLOGIC LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

PGS DATA MANAGEMENT (UK) LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

PLANTATION LAND COMPANY, INC. (UNITED STATES)

POLINEX-CEKOP
SA (POLAND)

PROFESSIONAL RESOURCES, LTD. (BERMUDA)

PROPERTY & CASUALTY
INSURANCE, LTD. (U.S. UNITED STATES)

PROPERTY & CASUALTY INSURANCE, LTD.
(BERMUDA)

PULLMAN KELLOGG PLANT SERVICES ALGERIA, INC. (UNITED
STATES)

REZAYAT BROWN & ROOT SAUDI COMPANY LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)

ROAD
MANAGEMENT CONSOLIDATED PLC (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT GROUP LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT
SERVICES (A13) HOLDINGS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT SERVICES (A13)
PLC (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT SERVICES (GLOUCESTER) LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

ROAD MANAGEMENT SERVICES (PETERBOROUGH) LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

ROCKWATER (NORTH SEA) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROCKWATER BV
(NETHERLANDS)

ROCKWATER CV (NETHERLANDS)

ROCKWATER HOLDINGS LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

ROCKWATER LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

ROCKWATER OFFSHORE CONTRACTORS 2 BV
(NETHERLANDS)

ROTARY BROWN & ROOT PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

SATTAHIP PIPECOATERS
LTD. (THAILAND)

SBR OFFSHORE LTD. (CANADA)

SCIENTIFIC & TECHNICAL COMPUTING
CENTRE PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

SEAFORTH ENGINEERING LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

SEAFORTH KINERGETICS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SEAFORTH MARINE SERVICES
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SEAFORTH MARITIME (HOLDINGS) LTD. (UNITED
KINGDOM)

SEAFORTH MARITIME LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SECURITY DBS (MEM) EC
(BAHRAIN)

SECURITY DBS BV (NETHERLANDS)

SECURITY DBS ITALIA SRL
(ITALY)

SECURITY DBS SA (FRANCE)

SEMBROWN EQUIPMENT PTE LTD.
(SINGAPORE)

SEMI SUB SERVICES BV (NETHERLANDS)

SERVICE EMPLOYEES
INTERNATIONAL, INC. (CAYMAN ISLANDS)

SERVICIOS HALLIBURTON DE VENEZUELA, SA
(UNITED STATES)

SERVICIOS INDUSTRIALES WORTHINGTON, SA (VENEZUELA)

SERVICIOS
PROFESIONALES PETROLEROS, S DE RL DE CV (MEXICO)

SERVICIOS TECNICOS BROWN &
ROOT, SA (PANAMA)

SHAPADU ROCKWATER SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

SHAW INDUSTRIES
PTY. LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

SHAW PIPE INDUSTRIES LTD. (CANADA)

SIAM BROWN & ROOT
LTD. (THAILAND)

SIF-ISOPIPE SA (FRANCE)

SINOKELLOGG ENGINEERING CO.
(CHINA)

SNAMPROGETTI NETHERLANDS, BV (NETHERLANDS)

SOCIEDAD ESPANOLA DE
BOMBAS Y MAQUINARIA SA (SPAIN)

SPERRY SUN SAUDIA COMPANY LTD. (SAUDI ARABIA)
SPERRY-SUN (U.K.) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SPERRY-SUN DE ECUADOR SA
(ECUADOR)

STRATA BIT LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

STRATAMODEL (BARBADOS) EXPORT
LTD. (BARBADOS)

STRATAMODEL (FSC) (BARBADOS)

STUDEBAKER-WORTHINGTON (U.K.)
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SUBSAHARA SERIVCES, INC. (UNITED STATES)

SUBSEA HMB
LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SUB SEA OFFSHORE (B) BERHAD (BRUNEI)

SUB SEA OFFSHORE
(HOLDINGS) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SUB SEA OFFSHORE LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

SUB
SEA OFFSHORE PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

SUB SEA OVERSEAS, INC. (PANAMA)

SUB SEA
WORLDWIDE, INC. (PANAMA)

SUBSEAKAT (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

SYMINGTON
WAYNE OVERSEAS, LTD. (CANADA)

T.K. VALVE HOLDINGS (UNITED KINGDOM)

TAYLOR
DIVING (SOUTH EAST ASIA) PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)

TAYLOR INTERNATIONAL DIVING
COMPANY, INC. (UNITED STATES)

TESEL HOLDINGS LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

THAI
PIPECOATERS LTD. (THAILAND)

ARAB GEOPHYSICAL EXPLORATION SERVICES CO. (LIBYA)


THERMOTITE AS (NORWAY)

THERMOTITE BRASIL LTDA (BRAZIL)

THERMOTITE SUBSEA
INSULATION, INC. (UNITED STATES)

THOMCO (NO. 2011) PTY LTD. (AUSTRALIA)

TRES
GAVIOTAS, SA DE CV (MEXICO)

TRI-CAN PERFORATORS LTD. (TRINIDAD)

TRICONOS
MINEROS SA (CHILE)

TSKJ-SERVICOS DE ENGENHARIA LTDA (PORTUGAL)

TSKJ II
CONSTRUCOES INTERNACIONAIS SOCIEDADE UNIPESSOAL LT. (PORTUGAL)

TSKJ NIGERIA
LTD. (NIGERIA)

UCAMAR SHIPPING & TRANSPORTATION COMPANY (CAYMAN) LT. (CAYMAN
ISLANDS)

UMC ENGINEERING SDN. BHD. (MALAYSIA)

UNIGLOBE ENGINEERING LTD.
(CYPRUS)

UNIVERSAL ENERGY SERVICES AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT
(LIECHTENSTEIN)

UNIVERSAL ENERGY SERVICES SRL (ITALY)

VACTOR INDUSTRIAL
POLLUTION (U.K.) LTD. (UNITED KINGDOM)

VOSNOC LTD. (CYPRUS)

W.T. LTD.
(UNITED KINGDOM)

WALBRIDGE BROWN & ROOT INTERNATIONAL LLC

[robertpaulsen]

252. Good Lord! That's quite a rabbit hole to tumble down!

Not that I'm complaining, I'm already too far down that rabbit hole to begin with!

But I'm asking you for advice on priorities, Pallas. I'll certainly continue with research into these areas. But I think it's time to go back over the threads and put a letter together, complete with references to articles, to send to the people and organizations who would and should be helping us.

Where do you think my focus should be?

[Pallas180]

264. RP our focus is getting rid of this administration. It goes

back to Bush 1 administration with Rumsfeld, Cheney and the neocon
moles who were in government for the past 30 years.

Our chink in the china (no pun intended) is Cheney and his criminal
sales.

I think he's our focus just as he is of the Atomic Energy Commission's and the French judge's focus.

2 different types of letters:

1 with details to the prosecutorial types

1 -keep it simple with quotes of his throwing a fit because
he couldn't legally sell Iran, Iraq, Syrria, Libya...including what turns out to be a 3.2 million dollar fine for Libya in the letter,.
and "circumstantial proof" from our digging linked as a URL in the
letter to a free website here, which shows all the connections.

Big job.

And by the way, if you want to do a lil digging,look up Rummy bio
and the Swiss company he worked for. My understanding is it also
told "questionable" equipment....another thread or string, if you
like :) eeeeeuuuuu.

I'd like to send this stuff to Fitzgerald, however, that could also
result in what I call the "Blues Brothers" knocking on our doors.

And let's ask H20's opinion on this.

We're playing with the big boys
with this stuff. But we can't help it if they leave paper trails on
the "net". If a reporter had a mind to, they could have found all of this and publicized it. Those in DC apparently are a closed club.

Lightbulb.

HIRSCH! HIRSCH could handle this and H20' s Waterman Paper.

Did anyone think of sending it to Hirsch????

[robertpaulsen]

267. Shraby, FrustratedDemInNC and I have all been singing praise to Hersh!

This is FrustratedDemInNC's link:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040119fr_archive02

Seymour is our man! He's aware of what's going on, we've got to get him updated with the latest dirt!


I like your idea of 2 letters. And I'd be happy to find more rope for Rummy to hang himself.

[Pallas180]

268. RP

do we want to be the ones to pin the evidence on Cheney?
That's not our job I don't think because we don't have prosecutorial power...and would we open ourselves to legal repercussions? No we want to say look what we found on the internet that makes it look like Mr. Cheney was involved in illegal sales to ______, ____, _____

See my post # 264 in answer to this question also.

What we want to do is give them a push in case they're getting shy,
but this is trickie. Some might not believe we found all of this on
the internet.

The French and Atomic Energy may know all of this...but it wouldn't hurt for them to know the public is knowing it too.

And if the newsmedia doesn't know it, our second letter with link
to free website laying out connections, will educate them. What do you think of that?

Pallas

[robertpaulsen]

275. Oh, to share a cup of coffee with Fitzgerald!

You are very correct, Pallas. We do not have prosecutorial power, even though we all share the same prosecutorial sentiments where dimson's misadministration is concerned. Spreading information from the internet regarding circumstantial evidence should not open us up to legal repercussions, printing smoking gun proof might be dangerous in more ways than one. No Blues Brothers, please!

I think you have the right approach to this, give them just enough to make them hungry for more. I'll try to get rough drafts ready on the two letter format you're suggesting. I'm not as quick compiling info as I am collecting it, but I shall do my best.

Thanks Pallas!

:hug:

[robertpaulsen]

269. You mean Rummy's dirty deal with North Korea?

Here's what I found:

Rumsfeld was on ABB board during deal with North Korea

The Swiss-based ABB on Friday told swissinfo that Rumsfeld was involved with the company in early 2000, when it netted a $200 million (SFr270million) contract with Pyongyang.

The ABB contract was to deliver equipment and services for two nuclear power stations at Kumho, on North Korea’s east coast.

Rumsfeld – who is one of the Bush administration’s most strident “hardliners” on North Korea – was a member of ABB’s board between 1990 and February 2001, when he left to take up his current post.

Wolfram Eberhardt, a spokesman for ABB, told swissinfo that Rumsfeld “was at nearly all the board meetings” during his decade-long involvement with the company.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1648385

And another source:

Rumsfeld Filled His Pockets with Pyongyang's Nuclear Loot
By CHRIS FLOYD

It's a well-known fact--oft detailed in this column--that the boys in the Bush Regime swing both ways. We speak, of course, of their proclivity--their apparently uncontrollable craving--for stuffing their trousers with loot from both sides of whatever war or military crisis is going at the moment.

That's why it came as no surprise to read last week that just before he joined the Regime's crusade against evildoers everywhere (especially rogue states that pursue the development of terrorist-ready weapons of mass destruction), Pentagon warlord Donald Rumsfeld was trousering the proceeds from a $200 million deal to send the latest nuclear technology--including plenty of terrorist-ready "dirty bomb" material--to the rogue state of North Korea, Neue Zurcher Zeitung reports.

In 1998, Rumsfeld was citizen chairman of the Congressional Ballistic Missile Threat Commission, charged with reducing nuclear proliferation. Rumsfeld and the Republican-heavy commission came down hard on the deal Bill Clinton had brokered with North Korea to avert a war in 1994: Pyongyang would give up its nuclear weapons program in exchange for normalized relations with the United States, plus the construction of two non-weaponized nuclear plants to generate electricity. The plants were to be built by an international consortium of government-backed business interests called KEDO.

Whatever happened to Bush's much-trumpeted "era of responsibility?" These guys are not only chiselers, hustlers, hypocrites and war profiteers--they're a bunch of gutless wonders as well. So you'll pardon us if we are just the tiniest bit cynical about the "moral arguments for war" and other such buckets of warm spit this gang is now forcing down the world's throat.

http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd03042003.html

I loved how when confronted with this info, Rumsfeld replied he "can't recall" discussing the Korean deal at ABB board meetings.

Reagan couldn't have scripted a better response.

[Pallas180]

272. Cheezus Christos. Unbelievable.

"The ABB contract was to deliver equipment and services for two nuclear power stations at Kumho, on North Korea’s east coast.

Rumsfeld – who is one of the Bush administration’s most strident “hardliners” on North Korea – was a member of ABB’s board between 1990 and February 2001, when he left to take up his current post."


Outrageous.

Look here. A triumvirate.

Media Lies, Propaganda and Hidden News Stories
... 3/12/03 Cheney served as Halliburton's chief executive ... 1999, a year before it also
bought ABB's nuclear power ... import banks and supervised by KEDO, a consortium ...
www.worldmessenger.20m.com/news4.html - 25k - Cached - Similar pages



North Korea has significant, but unmeasured reserves of offshore ...
... one can make out all the myriad countries that contribute to KEDO. ... Additionally,
Halliburton has partnered with KNOC to develop ...
www.rmfdevelopment.com/political/NorthKoreaOil.htm - 71k

[H2O Man]

274. Isn't it nice?

Not what Halliburton has done. No, not that. But that you three have answered "why?"

[robertpaulsen]

282. Now I know how Garrison felt.

Overwhelmed!

[Pallas180]

285. Disgusted, not overwhelmed. Indcredulous.

These people belong in Guantanamo.

This is treasonous actions for money.

No different than selling secrets as a spy .

They call it business. It's not.

It's treason and in violation of United States Law.

[robertpaulsen]

281. Hands trembling again.

How much crime can they commit before being brought to justice?

Just to spell it out again:

ABB, which was already building eight nuclear reactors in South Korea, had an inside track on the $4 billion U.S.-sponsored North
Korea project. The firm was told "our participation is essential," recalls Frank Murray, project manager for the reactors. (He plays
the same role now at Westinghouse, which was acquired by Britain's BNFL in 1999, a year before it also bought ABB's nuclear
power business.) The North Korean reactors are being primarily funded by South Korean and Japanese export-import banks and
supervised by KEDO, a consortium based in New York. "It was not a matter of favoritism," says Desaix Anderson, who ran
KEDO from 1997 to 2001. "It was just a practical matter."

The KEDO (Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization) is the official Korean government energy corporation. By reading their 2001 energy development summary one can make out all the myriad countries that contribute to KEDO. North Korea lacks necessary production facilities to drill and test for its oil. It is reaching out to many firms and countries to help them while the government attempts to develop some oil fields with as much capital as it can muster. A Singapore firm recently announced (August 29, 2002) significant oil and gas reserves in North Korea. Additionally, Halliburton has partnered with KNOC to develop offshore drilling platforms in South Korea.



Another serpentine trail: Rumsfeld-ABB-KEDO-KNOC-Halliburton

Are we still at the tip of the iceberg?

[H2O Man]

284. You are way beyond the tip

of the ice cube. I like your statement about knowing how Garrison felt. It's true. It's so true.

[Pallas180]

288. No Sweetheart. You are under the water level of the iceberg.

It's a "gotcha". Judases , selling the security of
America and the world for 30 pieces of gold.

[Pallas180]

289. Title: Selling The Security of America & World for 30 Pieces of Gold

treasonous bastids

[Pallas180]

292. RP wait til you see this

click on it - there's a lot more


http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/2004/05/18-0003.html

Kaushik Kapisthalam is an Atlanta-based IT professional and a freelance commentator on South Asia issues who writes frequently on non-proliferation and terrorism related topics. He can be reached at contact @kapisthalam.com

"Based on the above, it should be quite clear that the current portrayal of the LeT in Australia is incomplete and misleading. By mislabelling what is essentially a pan-Islamist terrorist group and the Pakistani partner of al-Qaida and as a "Kashmiri rebel group," some media outlets in Australia are doing the public a great disservice. The second and concluding part of this series will look at the real danger that the LeT poses to Australia and also take a critical look at the efforts in Pakistan to supposedly curtail the LeT which actually may turn out to be little more than eyewash so far."

[shraby]

293. They are using their positions

in government to line their pockets even beyond what we ever imagined. How many and which laws have they broken?? If we send this all to Hersh, he's going to need a team of lawyers just to sort it all out. It can't be turned over to the Justice Dep't...it's run by Ashcroft and he's in their bag. Maybe we can tie him in somehow...they put him in the Justice's drivers seat.

Can't find anything except he's a skunk in skunk's clothing.


edited to add.

[Pallas180]

298. er - was it 30 pieces of silver? In any case

I know a person from Italy who always says in matters
of this type:

proco Judas

Judas pigs I think it translates to.

[Pallas180]

184. No RobertPaulsen. You HAVE found it. Says so right there-

"Because of its weak indigenous scientific capacity, Pakistan has long relied on Western sources for sophisticated nuclear components."

We don't have to find anymore than that.

We just have to send it to the two proper departments who are investigating and ask: "by any chance would Halliburton be the Western supplier of Khan's Nuclear Walmart which this article
refers to ?"

"We ask because of Halliburton CEO Cheney's previous speeches (attached here) before he became veep in which he assailed US policy against selling dual use components, which could be used for nuclear bombs, to certain countries which were on the sanctions list."

(It's called the "dumb blonde" act.)

The prosecutors,investigators of the agencies looking into "20 North
American Companies" and the French have a job to do. They should do
it - with a little help from us :)

the same for the newspapers and media. This would be another letter to go out to EVERYWHERE. hee hee hee.

There's an old saying: "Funny thing about reaching high places, you meet the same people on the way down who you stepped on on the way up."

Nixon found that out. Bush & Cheney are going to find that out.

We are the American people they "stepped" on.

[robertpaulsen]

211. I agree wholeheartedly with what they SHOULD do!

I think we have definitely collected enough circumstantial evidence to compile and send to prosecutors, investigators, media and Congress and ask them to fill in the blanks.

Unfortunately, it seems like they really need to be slapped in the face with the truth and have every detail spelled out for them before appropriate action is taken. When Novakula made the fatal error of publishing Valerie Plame's name, you would have thought, in a society that supposedly protects freedom and justice for all, that the DOJ would have investigated such a criminal leak the moment it hit the newstands. Instead, I believe David Corn of The Nation had to SPELL IT OUT FOR THEM in an article, then months later we finally got some action.

Maybe if we dig deeper, we might find more. But you're right, the dirt we already dug up is enough to warrant a thorough investigation. I'll keep checking on other details I'm curious about, but I'll also be going through the Plame threads to organize the dirt we have on Cheney in a concise but thoroughly damaging expose. As you say:

This would be another letter to go out to EVERYWHERE. hee hee hee.

I gotta say:

:yourock:

[Wind Dancer]

253. A little more!

This is more info from the same source, nothing really new but more to confirm.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/2004031621042158


Remember, Bush accused Iraq of harboring a cache of WMD, which was the primary reason he gave for the United States launching a preemptive strike on that country a year ago, and also claimed that Iraq may have given its WMD to al-Qaeda terrorists and/or Syria, weapons that, Bush said, could be used to attack the U.S. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and top members of the administration reacted with shock when they found out that Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, spent the past 15 years selling outlaw nations nuclear technology and equipment. So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.

more

another article linked:

Cheney went to great lengths to cover-up Pakistan's nuclear weaponry. In a New Yorker article published on March 29, 1993, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh quoted Barlow as saying that some high-ranking members inside the CIA and the Pentagon lied to Congress about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal so as not to sacrifice the sale of the F-16 fighter planes to Islamabad, which was secretly equipped to deliver nuclear weapons. Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and had become so grave by the spring of 1990 that then CIA deputy director Richard Kerr said the Pakistani nuclear threat was worse than the Cuban Missile crisis in the 1960s.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040119fr_archive02

Sy Hersh has been investigating this for a long time too!

[robertpaulsen]

254. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Someone on the last thread asked if I had another source besides Pakistan Facts to corroborate the sale of fighter jets to Pakistan. I knew I had read about it elsewhere, but going through all my files on related subjects is such a draining chore. Thanks FrustratedDemInNC, it's good to know that a reporter with Hersh's credentials is on top of this.

I wanted to highlight a sentence that you printed just to drive a point home to everyone.

So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.

CHENEY KNEW! That point alone is reason enough to condemn the cyborg. But if we can also tie Halliburton as having a business relationship with Khan's Nuclear Walmart, I don't see how dimson could pardon him. He could, but it would be political suicide.

[shraby]

255. Might not hurt to contact

Sy Hersh with what we have. It might fill in some of his blanks, and we know he's a trusted journalist.

[Wind Dancer]

258. shraby, I agree, He was one of the five journalists

on my original contact list. I remember him from the days of My Lai and what an impact it had on me. (showing my age now)

[robertpaulsen]

259. Oh yeah! Hersh is definitely an ally.

Put him at the top of any list. I wasn't around when My Lai broke, but I understood its significance. I'm glad he's still around to make a difference.

Why can't there be more investigative journalists like Hersh?

[H2O Man]

291. he's the best.

No debate. No one is close.

[Wind Dancer]

256. Yes, Cheney did know . I also found this

info here:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/031004Leopold/031004leopold.html

I think Sy Hersh is the best journalist of our lifetime and wanted to research any articles he may have published regarding the Pakistan angle.

There are a few names I want to research further when I have more time from the article too.

[shraby]

260. Bush and Cheney have

"Cheneyed" this country and half the world sooo bad...can it ever be fixed before the nukes start flying in every direction? I'm depressed.
Meanwhile back at the ranch the republicans most important issue is gay marriage. I think I'm gonna throw up.

[Wind Dancer]

262. I know exactly how you feel!

I have been so depressed recently - it's hard to comprehend the full impact of what could happen to our country. I often think about JFK and MLK Jr and wonder how different our world would be if they had lived.

My hope is that a few people like us can make a difference.

[shraby]

263. Here is an interesting tidbit

SUPPLY: Beryllium is found in a variety of countries on five continents. The largest producers in 1998 were the United States, China, Russia and Kazakhstan. The U.S. Geological Survey's Office of Minerals Information estimated 1998 world mine production of bertrandite ore at 330,000 tonnes. Brush Wellman Inc., Cleveland, is the United States' only domestic processor of beryllium ore, and the world's primary beryllium ore processor and supplier of beryllium products although China and Kazakhstan also process the metal.

I closed the google window too quick and I can't find where I got this. AARGH

[robertpaulsen]

265. Found it.

BERYLLIUM

World mine output: 330,000 tonnes
U.S. consumption: 240 tonnes
U.S. exports: 60 tonnes
Price: $160.00/lb. (U.S. price for beryllium contained in beryllium-copper master alloys)

Beryllium, which is extracted from the mineral beryl, bertrandite and phenakite ores, exhibits both metallic and nonmetallic properties. The element was discovered by Nicolas Louis Vauquelin in 1798 while examining an emerald in beryl form but was not isolated until 1828. This silver-colored, brittle metal is one of the lightest structural materials. Stiffer than 1010 steel, beryllium is also highly conductive. In fact, beryllium and its alloys are often chosen materials for "it has to work" electronic and aerospace equipment. Automobile air bags, for example, use pricey beryllium-copper alloys to ensure deployment. Although solid beryllium poses no health hazard, inhaling beryllium particles or fumes can produce acute or chronic lung disease.


SUPPLY: Beryllium is found in a variety of countries on five continents. The largest producers in 1998 were the United States, China, Russia and Kazakhstan. The U.S. Geological Survey's Office of Minerals Information estimated 1998 world mine production of bertrandite ore at 330,000 tonnes. Brush Wellman Inc., Cleveland, is the United States' only domestic processor of beryllium ore, and the world's primary beryllium ore processor and supplier of beryllium products although China and Kazakhstan also process the metal.

Brush Wellman reported it produced 113,000 dry tonnes of diluted bertrandite ore with a 0.234-percent beryllium content in 1998, up about 3 percent from the year before. The company's mine in Juab County, Utah, contained 7,747,000 dry tonnes of proven bertrandite reserves at the end of 1998. Brush Wellman estimated the reserves would last 60 years or more at current production levels.

http://www.amm.com/ref/beryl.HTM

Shraby, are you looking for a US tie with that BBC article about UK/Iran nuke proliferation?

[shraby]

271. Yup, apparently the UK

doesn't produce it..so where did they get it to export?

[robertpaulsen]

261. Wow! Another gem!

I want to read Hersh's New Yorker article in its entirety before I go on to thread 14 (which will probably be starting soon) but this link seems to provide a good synopsis. I liked Jason Leopold's own contributions:


In 1989, the year Khan first started selling nuclear secrets on the black-market; Richard Barlow, a young intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon prepared a shocking report for Cheney, who was then secretary of defense under the Bush I administration: Pakistan built an atomic bomb and was selling its nuclear equipment to countries the U.S. said was sponsoring terrorism.

But Barlow's findings, as reported in a January 2002 story in Mother Jones magazine, were "politically inconvenient."

"A finding that Pakistan possessed a nuclear bomb would have triggered a congressionally mandated cutoff of aid to the country, a key ally in the CIA's efforts to support Afghan rebels fighting a pro-Soviet government. It also would have killed a $1.4-billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad," Mother Jones reported.

Ironically, Pakistan, critics say, was let off the hook last month so the U.S. could use its borders to hunt for al-Qaeda leader and alleged 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden.

Cheney dismissed Barlow's report because he desperately wanted to sell Pakistan the F-16 fighter planes. Several months later, a Pentagon official was told by Cheney to downplay Pakistan's nuclear capabilities when he testified on the threat before Congress. Barlow complained to his bosses at the Pentagon and was fired.



Where's Richard Barlow today? Hope he's still alive to testify.

[Pallas180]

277. Okay. Let's see if we can

find him on the internet.

[shraby]

279. I was looking for Richard Barlow

and ran across this, scroll down there are some articles that parallel our project.

<http://www.crikey.com.au/yoursay/2004/05/21-0003.html>

[Pallas180]

283. "As if the CIA's past support for Al-Qaeda, the Contras and Generals

if the CIA's past support for Al-Qaeda, Contras and Generals Pinochet and Soeharto weren't enough.


catch that?

[H2O Man]

290. You got it!

The fork in the road: let the legal process proceed, and cheney becomes SO discredited, and you lose. Pardon him, and you become SO discredited, you lose. Good thing george is SO decisive, and enjoys making tough choices without thinking.

[H2O Man]

287. Cheney 's overseeing

deals with Pakistan. Hmmmmm..... It almost seems like a key is going into a lock on a door here .......Sy Hersh is the single best journalist out there. I'd be in favor of giving him any and all information that we have. As a group, and as individuals. And there's no other journalist out there that I feel that strongly about.

[ignatius 2]

238. Reading these threads about sales of wmd components jogged

my memory about an article from the BBC I had read a few years ago.

UK "sells" bomb material to Iran

--snip-- British officials have approved the export of key components needed to make nuclear weapons to Iran and other countries known to be developing such weapons.

---the Department of Trade and Industry allowed a quantity of the metal, Beryllium, to be sold to Iran last year.

That metal is used to make nuclear bombs.

It(BBC) will reveal that Iranian procurement agents have been working in the UK to get sensitive material back to Iran and that Pakistan has also been successful in procuring material for its nuclear programme from here.--snip--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2275249.stm

Nukes--the ties that bind one group of criminals to another

[Pallas180]

242. Welcome Ignatius & Thanks. Halli has many Brit susidiaries -

if we can find the names of the companies who were allowed
to export Berillium and other nuke type materials, maybe
we can make a match.

[ignatius 2]

245. Thanks, actually I have been around for a while as ignatius, but

got a new computer.lost my password..etc..etc..etc

Thanks for working so hard on this important topic..the idea that this administration makes us all safer is such a sad and pathetic joke, but I truly believe with the research and quest for truth on sites such as this the truth will rise to the light and these dark and dismal days will be but a bad memory.

[robertpaulsen]

247. Thanks and welcome to DU ignatius 2!

Interesting link you've got there. Wonder if someone like Peter Griffin, a British contact cited by the Malaysian investigation above as being involved in A.Q. Khan's Nuclear Walmart, had anything to do with this?

[robertpaulsen]

146. Here's the $1.2 million link

Maybe RebelYell could send this along with Cheney speech link to Robert Palast. He'd laugh his ass off and spread the word!

A Halliburton Primer
Thursday, July 11, 2002


Following President Bush's demand for more corporate accountability, public interest group Judicial Watch, Inc., filed suit against Vice President Cheney and the Halliburton Company, alleging accounting fraud during Cheney's stewardship of Halliburton in the 1990s. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is also investigating Halliburton's accounting practices.


Judicial Watch Sues Cheney, Halliburton (AP, July 10, 2002)

Following is a brief explanation of Cheney's involvment with Halliburton and the pending lawsuit and SEC investigation.

What is Halliburton Co.?

The Dallas-based Halliburton Company provides products and services to the petroleum and energy industries to aid in the exploration, development and production of natural resources. Halliburton KBR, the company's engineering and construction division, designs, builds and provides additional services for the energy industry, governments and civil infrastructure. Halliburton employs 85,000 people in over 100 countries.

Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions "are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic constituency."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/articles/halliburtonprimer.html

[H2O Man]

148. Unreal.

He has no conscience. I question if he has a soul.

[Pallas180]

154. H20 - this is what the Democratic Party should be doing

digging up the conflicting stories and statements and
giving them out as press releases....

exactly what the GOP "boiler room" people do in the basement -
take every statement and then release misinformation through
press releases.

The media just calls up the gop basement - do no investigation
of their own.

The dems should be doing exactly what we are doing here.

It's outrageous that they haven't!


:bounce: Pallas expressing outrage.

[H2O Man]

159. we are the democratic party.....

and we are doing it.....I just hope Tellurian is still planning to pay us.

[Pallas180]

160. BWAAAAAAA ha ha hah ha ha hah

bad.

Well let's ask. lol

Great job. We don't have to leave home to do it. :)

[kohodog]

169. That's why Soros and Rappaport want to instigate change

In the way liberals operate. And I don't think they want to rule as the neocons do. They want to shift the momentum.

The tide can turn, and concerned individuals need to row the boat on the same side!

[Pallas180]

181. KOHO - secrecy. If we don't know all their names

we can't check if they're connected to Bilderberg, Trilateral,
or Carlyle companies.

We won't know what their true intentions are until we see and hear
them more.

I know about Soros.

We don't know anything more about these people or their "associations".

I'm from Missouri ----as Harry Truman used to say - Show me.

[Pallas180]

182. KOHO - secrecy. If we don't know all their names

we can't check if they're connected to Bilderberg, Trilateral,
or Carlyle companies.

We won't know what their true intentions are until we see and hear
them more.

I know about Soros.

We don't know anything more about these people or their "associations".

I'm from Missouri ----as Harry Truman used to say - Show me.

[shraby]

163. Better question,

doesn't the Washington Post remember what they printed? They have an archives and it is their responsiblilty to bring these things into the open because it's necessary to do so.

[robertpaulsen]

166. I guess ever since Woodward & Bernstein left the Post...

...searching through archives has become an archaic practice there.

[coeur_de_lion]

86. Is anyone here a member of the Howard Dean blog?

I was talking to an activist friend and she said that this letter writing project might be something the Deanies would jump on. If we can post a sample letter and links to media contacts and legislators that would be great.

Try posting this:

Addresses to write to:
Congressional Black Caucus:
email links:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbcmember.htm
Snail mail link:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbc108.pdf

Calimary's Democratic Underground thread for activism/media/other contacts:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=8816

The "Waterman Paper" written by H2O Man:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2041061#2043509

"The Revolutionary Presidency vs. The Bill of Rights" written by H2O Man:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2055363#2060455

Link for sample letter:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1962806#1969525

[H2O Man]

109. The Howard Dean organization

would be the perfect model of grass-roots activsm. It would be great to get in touch with them.

[kohodog]

110. I ran some meet ups and went to our state steering committee mtgs

We still have a skeleton left, email & organizing for local progressives running for office.

I'll see if anyone has a personal connection with DFA

[coeur_de_lion]

111. I was a Clark supporter and feel kinda funny posting on a Dean

blog. But I'm told this would be useful.

I've got a friend helping me organize a letter writing campaign on another site -- once we've got it complete we can post it anywhere. She wants a summary (synopsis) of the Plame issue so she can use part of it for an attention grabbing headline. Then she can link to H2O's longer position papers about Plame and The Pres. vs. the Bill of Rights.

If, however, you feel good about just posting what we have so far then by all means hook up with the Dean group.

[LeftHander]

112. Hi Plame threaders....Asbestos Theory

Sorry I was unable to respond to some of the questions posted on thread 13....I was traveling all weekend.

To recap the theory...it is all about money...and power.

Cheney acquired Dresser/Harbison-Walker (Bush family companies) in 1999. Speculation as to why someone would acquire a company on the verge of massive law suit...personal favor? 200,000 asbestos claims at even 2 million award each would crush a company the size of Dresser and even Halliburton alone would fall but together during war time they could withstand. Dresser is a core company in the U.S. War manufacturing machine. War was needed to increase the ready cash reserves for Halliburton to survive the asbestos claims.

Halliburton Bankruptcy press release in Asbestos Claims...

http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/2002/corpnws_021402.jsp

Congress attempts a Helping Hand to HAL...recap by Gene Taylor..

"Senator Orrin Hatch introduced a bill, S. 1125, that would specify medical criteria and establish a schedule of benefits based on the diagnosis of specific illnesses. Payments would range from $20,000 to $1,000,000, considerably less than the average award for cases that have gone to trial. Defendant companies would pay an assessment into the compensation fund, but no company would be forced to pay more than $25 million per year for 27 years. Thus, the most a company would have to pay would be $675 million." More....

http://www.house.gov/genetaylor/Asbestos.htm

Halliburton agrees to pay 4 billion...in 2002 war just around the corner...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/18/national/main533512.shtml

Cheney (not personally) attempted to buy yellow cake with the understanding it would be used to frame Iraq and bolster the justification for a invasion.

Plame leading a investigation and possible sting operation to trap unsuspecting illegal arms traders dealing in nuclear material. Gets the good on those acting on behalf of the Bush administration.

Cheney catches wind of the screw up and goes into damage control by planting obviously falsified documents and sending a independent third party to investigate (Wilson). Dealing with a bad intel in the SOTU would be easier. The CIA was a relatively uncontrollable factor. Because of the difficulty in trading information between agencies. Some agencies really refuse to work with others because they have investigations going on that highlight internal corruption.

Plame had to be stopped and discrediting Wilson was the first step. Risking a federal crime by outing a CIA agent was a calculated gamble to stop further exposure of Halliburton/Cheney dealings and keep the house of cards up for a little while longer.

Such a complicated game as using War in protecting a family fortune and a large portion of the U.S. economy is wrought with the potential for problems. Public opinion being one. Having the power to execute all the needed tasks, and keeping tabs on the CIA is another.

Harbison-Walker, Dresser, Halliburton, Cheney, Bush are all interlinked in history and continue to be the points of interest in the ensuing War on terrorism.

Starting the war in Iraq was good for America on many fronts according to PNAC, Bush, Cheney...but mainly for the continued existence of Dresser, Halliburton and the American war manufacturing machine.

I am going to be away again for a week in the coming days.

Asking "why" outing was certainly a fun and entertaining exercize...

[Pallas180]

113. Left Hander, much of your theory can be

agreed with, except asbestos as the motivation for going to war to pay off the 4 billion dollar judgment.

On thread 12 we found a link showing Halliburton's "divisions".


We found that sales alone for one year for Halliburtion were
a measly 16 billion dollars. Profit could be as much as 8 billion,
50% if not more.

Now that's only one company of Halliburton's. Halliburton, on the link we found incorporated shell after shell and about 250 other
companies with comparable revenues.

It's likely their financial assetts are in the trillions not billions.

Therefore, concocting a war in order to pay off a measly 4 billion
over 27 years just doesn't play.

See my point?

[H2O Man]

115. The idea fits

as far as being consistent with the Iraqi war having to do with financial interests. A lot of good thought has gone into it.

It does appear to fully explain the idea behind exposing Plame as a CIA operative.

The idea of asking "why?" isn't a brief exercise for fun discussions. It's something that Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty taught DA Jim Garrison when Garrison was attempting to solve the riddle of how JFK was killed in Dallas. Again, in the movie, it is the wonderful scene with Donald Sutherland as Man X (Prouty) on the park bench, advising Kevin Costner to ask "Why?" and "Who benefits?"

It is important to remember that Prouty was a US Air Force Colonel, who served as the chief of special operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Kennedy presidency. He was in charge of the global system designed to provide military support for the clandestine activities of the CIA.

Hence, the manner of examing a situation with the "Why?" is not a brief exercise for fun speculation on this forum. Just as insightful people will note that Garrison's understanding of Dallas etc changed when Man X's teaching opened his eyes, it's a good thing to use in looking at any situation.

I don't think we've come to an end here at all. It may be a week, it may be two .... but I am confident that quite soon, we'll see some significant progress in the grand jury proceedings. And, in the mean time, we're having a good time sitting in the park, discussing events current and otherwise.

[LeftHander]

123. agreed..very serious...(even though it is fun)

It is quite serious to research an analyze motivations behind one of the most significant scandals in our lifetime.

If it is exposed fully through legal channels it will rock this country to it's foundation.

I feel it needs to be done. Though now I wonder if it will happen before the elections.

[H2O Man]

125. Thread 119 is encouraging.

In a related note, the original purpose of the first thread was fully accomplished two weeks ago. Even though our letter-writing campaign was slightly "stalled" last week, we're on track.

As expressed way back, the fellow handling the federal grand jury is exactly the right man for the job. The recent attacks on Wilson are a reaction from a legal team that realizes just how much trouble their clients in the administration are in.

Our job continues to be to send this information to others on the grass roots level. Certainly, not everyone who reads or participates on the threads agrees, or wants to spread the word. That's to be expected, and it's the way it should be.

But for those who are active in this little venture, the results are becoming clearer.

[LeftHander]

121. I see your point on the 4 billion....

But that is a drop in bucket compared to 250,000 claims that could each fetch 2 million or more...

2 million X 250,000 = 500,000,000,000

The amount that they agreed to payout is a small amount compared to the overall potential...

Also there were many other "good" reasons to go to war. Oil, oil and ahhhh oil...Bush and the rest just let gave the right a blank check on social and fical policy if they would support the war 100%.

The 4 billion is not the end of it. That is still alot of money to hand out regardless. Certainly a compnay that makes war and ooil it's business would certainly support any action that destabilizes the middle east and opens the down for a long U.S. campaign.

Activities like selling nuke tech to banned countries..

[robertpaulsen]

131. Thanks for restating this theory, I understand it better now.

I was confused when I first read it on thread 12, I thought you were saying Plame sent Wilson to Niger, not Cheney. Your theory makes sense to me now and ties in somewhat with calimary's twofer theory.

I'm curious about the timeline of your theory. Do you think Cheney found out about Plame's operation catching on to Cheney's compromising WMD tie and THEN Cheney planted the forged docs and sent Wilson to investigate?

Also, did you know Iraq already had 50 tons of yellowcake? I'm not sure where I read it, but I'll try to find the link. Iraq didn't need more yellowcake, it needed the means to process it. Who could have provided the means? Perhaps the answer to that question is the answer to the question: who benefited the most from outing Plame?

[LeftHander]

216. More Asbestos....

I think Cheney in hoofing it over to the CIA looking for more favorable Iraq war intel ran across the investigation on material sold while at the head of Halliburton and the efforts to continue supplying Iraq with material. Cheney had all along planned to use this to create a favorable environment for invasion. Imagine the shock he must of felt and the conversations.

After Cheney realized they were close to finding out about his illegal dealings he quickly had the bogus paper scam put into place. KNow full when when the time was right he would allow Plames identity to be leaked when the investigation got too close. Remeber just recently that the INternaltional Nuclear agency had found that a well know North American company had been found to of sold materials in violation of international treaties. For this tidbit to have risen only in the past few weeks says that the investigation was occuring for quite sometime.


Outing Plame was a calculated effort to undermine investigations damaging to Cheney, Hallibirton and Bush.

More Asbestos Info from the frontlines:

http://www.mesothel.com/pages/halliburton_jail_pag.htm

Keep in mind that this description of a asbestos claim is one of the estimated 250,000.

MOre here.

Good recap on asbestos here:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/09/02/fin_cheney_left.html

"Halliburton hired Cheney in 1995 to stand out from competitors Schlumberger Ltd. and Baker Hughes Inc. The U.S. energy industry was increasingly looking overseas for growth, and Halliburton believed Cheney's contacts in the Middle East and elsewhere would be invaluable.

Since Cheney became vice president, Brown & Root won a no-bid, unlimited contract to support Army troops overseas and got a construction contract from the Navy even though it was under federal investigation for fraud on another contract. Brown & Root settled the fraud charges by paying $2 million."

MOre wonderful paragraphs from above Enquirer link.

http://www.mesothel.com/pages/la_times_halliburton_pag.htm

Think HAL stock price all about war? I thought it was....not anymore.

From 2001....Halliburton loses a 24 million dollar asbestos claim.

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2001/12/03/daily51.html

Now with War cash flow and time to get favorable judges on the bench...

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/17/news/fortune500/halliburton.reut/

""We are pleased that the Court issued confirmation," a Halliburton spokeswoman said on Saturday.

Halliburton shares rose 45 cents on Friday to close at $31.50 on the New York Stock Exchange. The shares have risen more than 20 percent this year, largely because of the fading worries about the company's asbestos liability. (NOTE: July 2001 HAL was at $9 and the Asbestos situation was looking very grim)

KBR, Halliburton's engineering and construction arm, is the contractor in Iraq, holding contracts that could eventually be worth $18 billion for rebuilding the country's oil infrastructure and providing services to U.S. military personnel. "

- I like how these last two paragraphs are situated. Fading worries and increased revenue from war.

[Pallas180]

114. Happy Monday Ad Hoc Think Tank -ers :) Gore

speaks tonight at the convention


http://www.truthout.org/dnc04.shtml

[H2O Man]

116. That's right!

Yesterday, I talked about constitutional democracy. It makes me so happy to watch the convention in Boston! Man! I remember in 1988, I was there when the Rev. Jackson met with Michael D. in the park on the 4th of July. Jackson had brought a surge of grass-roots democracy to the table of American politics. He did extremely well in the primaries. Had Michael D. taken Jesse for his VP, or at least announced his intention to have Jesse in a position of power, we would have won that election. That was the best "recent" example of the upper class in the party closing their minds, hence closing the door, on an opportunity to make politics inclusive.

I'm not sure if younger people realize what he did in the primaries. Jesse blazed the path that Dean would take. He wasn't dividing the people with angry rhetoric! Oh, he was in his prime. The spirit of Martin was moving him. But the top people in the party were afraid of that energy. So the nation lost an opportunity.

When you close a door on an opportunity, it's lost forever. Something similar may come along. It may resemble that lost opportunity .... but it can never be the same. That's something that both individuals and political parties need to understand.

But Pallas, you are right.... as you always are (smile) For the next few days, we have the opportunity to enjoy the convention. We are living in historic times, and I think this is going to be an important few days. I'm glad to be sharing this time with the people on here.

[kohodog]

117. It's nice to be in the park, shooting the breeze

It would be great if this week brought some coherence to the Democratic Party philosophy. There are lots of policies, but I'm hopeful the Bush regime is helping progressives and dems define a new vision for America that will encompass and transcend individual policy issuse. Wouldn't a policy of peace, justice and respect for all citizens of the planet be great?

Guess I'm a dreamer at heart.

[Pallas180]

118. H20 - laughing. I'm framing your previous post and

hanging it prominently! lol

"When you close a door on an opportunity, it's lost forever. Something similar may come along. It may resemble that lost opportunity .... but it can never be the same. That's something that both individuals and political parties need to understand."

Sometimes we (and I can name 1/2 a dozen important lost opportunities
for myself) don't realize a wonderful opportunity is being presented. What you have said in the paragraph above is absolute
truth.

If only Gore had spoken in 2000 the way he speaks today.

We still would have been attacked on 911 but our country's reaction-destroying a country that gave birth to civilization - very well would have been different.

And destruction of the Constitution and the placement of right wing
judges in Federal and Appellate benches which will affect this country's laws and regulations and every citizen's life for the next 40 years certainly would not have happened.

It's a privilege to read many of your posts H20.

Next book : Waterman's Wisdom.

:)

[never cry wolf]

119. If you all didn't catch this thread started by party_line

Some info from the Daily Kos.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2067249

Following the links to Kos:

Ambassador Wilson confident re Plame investigation
by RonK Seattle
Sun Jul 25th, 2004 at 21:21:57 GMT

Yesterday it was my privilege to encounter Ambassador Joe Wilson again, at US Rep. Jay Inslee's campaign kick-off. Jay is both an energy scam hero and an antiwar hero, and looks to have an easy cruise to re-election ... making his Seattle-Northside campaign organization a natural service center for coordinated efforts around the state.

A few points of note (some from public remarks, some from direct conversation):

1. Wilson is in continuing contact with federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation of his wife's outing as a CIA operative. Recent contact gives Joe no cause for pessimism with respect to aggressive pursuit and favorable disposition.
2. Regarding the recent spate of rumors, leaks and smears, Wilson interprets this less as expectation-setting or muddying the political waters, and more as an orchestrated effort to intimidate and/or discourage cooperating witnesses. Put simply, it's overt tampering with an ongoing criminal investigation ... and he specifically implicates the controversial SSIC "additional views" addendum demanded by Senators Roberts, Hatch and Bond.

more---> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/25/212157/057

following a link to comments on Kos yields the following:

e-mail exchange (4.00 / 2)

I exchanged e-mails with William Madson, the author of that somewhat extreme article on the Plame affair. I figured why not, he has been right on some things. He told me his sources told him the Judge in the case extended the Grand Jury for 6 months in June, though he doesn't think Fitzgerald will need that much time and the results will be in before the election. Also, he said one member of Team Dubya, someone within the White House, flipped for the Prosecutors to avoid prosecution himself and ratted a whole crew of people out and this will be very powerful evidence leading to big indictments of higher ups in the White House. According to him, he has good sources, though we'll just have to see.

If the White House knows this as well, it would explain the recent Joe Wilson ad-hominem attacks and the Washington Times article as to previous examples of Plame's blown cover. These seem to me to be leaks coming from the suspects lawyers, in one way or another, in attempt to lay the ground work for defenses.

GDoyle

here---> http://nodissentallowed.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/24/94834/8476

On the same comment page, there's a mention of the DU threads, btw.

I sure hope the above post is true!

[Pallas180]

122. Steviet, thanks for the good find - specially liked

this: Cheney in 1998

(but we know he was still saying the same thing a few months before
he became Veep. In any case, it also gives us some names of countries (I've never heard of) to see if Nuclear Walmart Is Us - Khan had contact with them also........."If you can't drive through
the mountain, go around it"- I suspect is the Veep's motto.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Dick Cheney, the multilateral years ...

BERNAMA
THE MALAYSIAN NATIONAL NEWS AGENCY
KUALA LUMPUR, April 20, 1998
Former United States Defence Secretary Dick Cheney today hit out at his government for imposing unilateral economic sanctions like the Iran-Libya Sanctions Act, saying they have been "ineffective, did not provide the desired results and a bad policy".

"I have made it clear that our (the US unilateral) sanctions policy is wrong," he said when asked to comment on the Iran-Libya Act which contains provisions for sanctions to be imposed by the US against foreign companies making investment beyond US$20 million a year in the oil and gas sector of the targeted countries.

Malaysia, which is against the extra-territorial law, has said that Petronas and other Malaysian companies will continue to invest abroad despite the US threat of sanctions under the Act.

Petronas is currently involved in a US$2 billion gas field project in Iran undertaken jointly with SA Total of France and Gazprom of Russia.

Speaking to reporters after calling on Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad at the Prime Minister's office here, Cheney, who is now the chairman and CEO of Halliburton, said: "The US needs to be much more restraint then we have been in terms of pursuing unilateral economic sanctions."

Cheney, who served under the Bush administration between 1989 and 1993, however said the multilateral economic sanctions imposed by the international community on Iraq were "appropriate".

"I disagree with the current law (Iran-Libya Sanctions Act) but my company will comply with the rule (Act)," he said.

He said he also disagreed with the unilateral economic sanctions imposed on Myanmar and Arzerbaijan.



See this article for more on the grand jury investigation into whether Halliburton broke the Iranian sanctions law.

For what it's worth, I think the promiscuous use of unilateral economic sanctions probably is a bad idea -- an example of the capricious and shortsighted use of American power that limits our ability to deal forcefully with real problems by antagonizing allies and frittering away diplomatic capital with silliness like the continuing sanctions against Cuba, among other examples.

-- Josh Marshall

[H2O Man]

124. Very interesting....

thanks for the important information. Wilson is, as Dean wrote in his NYT's book review, the wrong guy to pick a fight with. The administration misread some of the cues from his past. Then they made their mistakes .... and pretty soon, they're going to have to pay their dues.

Just curious: what mention was made of the DU threads?

[LeftHander]

126. Ooo maybe the idea is to ensure Bush is gone ASAP.

That means....before Jan.

No lame duck time for Bushco. They will loose the election and then be indicted.

[Pallas180]

128. H20, once you click on Steviet's link, click "On the Verge of Plame"

(luv that title)

it's another discussion thread...and a poster says:

"Agree (none / 0)

Something's coming down the pike soon.. There has been a long series of detailed threads about this one over at Democratic Underground - check the 'General Discussion' area. My theory is that it was Rove who ratted out the others; the leak came out of Cheney's office, Rove is worried about what it does to Dubya's reelection bid. I think that's why Wilson called Rove out in public (the 'frog march' comment), figuring he was the weakest link. Just a theory.

The emperor has no brains. "

[RebelYell]

147. That's our very own daria_g's post

nt

[H2O Man]

130. Keep in mind that we have distinct groups:

(1) Wilson & Plame: no one else can speak for them. But from everything we know, they appear to be the type of people we want in high places in our government.

(2) Fitzgerald: I do not believe that this man has political motivation. I think that he fits the mold of the guy who is a refreshing, true believer in the American justice system.

I am convinced that while this case is a valuable resource for the democratic party, including in the November election, I do not believe that Wilson, Plame, or Fitzgerald share that same motivation in this case.

What we share with them is a sense of right and wrong, a desire to see justice in this case, and a passion for constitutional democracy.

[TacticalPeek]

132. Xxxxxxxxxxxxcellent --- und veddy interrres-tink!

Thanks for posting.

from party_line's post linked above,

"We discussed the long odds that any federal prosecutor would hand down any bombshell indictment so close to an election. Wilson acknowledged the concern, and was otherwise noncommittal on this score."


When considering "so close to an election", one should keep in mind the November 5, 2002 election, and the Iraqi War Resolution vote on October 10-11, 2002. This gang of usurpers has made a clear public record of their comfort level with and attitude toward scheduling important national events near election time. By their own count, indictments any time from today up through October 9th would be kosher.

:evilgrin:

[yodermon]

134. indictment timing..

If the indictments come down between conventions, is it conceivable that we'll end up with McCain on the repub ticket? Or is bushco so powermad that they'd cling to a sinking ship?

As much as it would frustrate me (all of us) to no end, might it be better (*politically*) for the indictments to be an October Surprise?

Although as H2O has said, if Fitzgerald is truly apolitical, then we'll see indictments when he's good 'n ready, and not a moment before/after.

[LeftHander]

199. Probably best case is...Before Election, after GOP Conv.

Let Bush/Cheney be on the ticket.

Get indicted. Run, lose, resign before Jan., Bush administration crumbles and is ushered out of power. Kerry Administration starts early....

[robertpaulsen]

138. Very promising find!

I found a link on there that buried in the New York Times was news that a decision on indictments in the Plame case was expected in a matter of weeks:

Sat Jul 17, 2004
Plame warning
Here's the very last sentence in an otherwise unremarkable, just-posted New York Times story rehashing the Niger-Iraq uranium allegations, as well as the tangential involvement of Joseph Wilson and his wife, CIA officer Valerie Plame:


Patrick Fitzgerald, the federal prosecutor examining the leak of Ms. Plame's identity, is expected to announce in a matter of weeks whether he will prosecute anyone.

You can't bury the lead much more than that, can you? I guess they just wanted to see if anyone was reading the story all the way to the end.

http://www.needlenose.com/pMachineFree2.2.1/weblog.php?id=P1474

I'm hoping for indictments to coincide with the 30th anniversary of Nixon's resignation. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[H2O Man]

140. The 30th anniversary!

That would be great!

I think that in August, we are going to know the results of the grand jury investigation. At that time, the White House (read VP) will begin a vicious attack on Wilson and Plame. Shortly thereafter, I think there will be a response that will take much of the nation by surprise. Yet no one who reads DU will be surprised in the least!

[Pallas180]

142. RP, yes it would be, but there would still have to be

impeachment.

Without impeachment and High Crimes & Misdemeanor Charges
I don't think we're rid of them.

I read somewhere on one of the links above that a Judge
has extended the Fitzgerald sitting Grand Jury and investigation
by six months.

Scenario: if Fitzgerald doesn't come in with indictments prior
to the election, the cabal could still get in.

If indictments come in after the election, it'll be messy similar
to Nixon times. The military at the time, was so scared of his being psycho they replaced his "football" with a fake one, afraid he'd push the button (I read).

Then it will depend on the House of Representatives, unless
the Supremes interfere again. Which will again diminish the
Constitution.

We're still far away from being rid of them, unless they lose the
election to John Kerry.

[H2O Man]

144. If the grand jury ties VP cheney

to this, we need not worry about impeachment. The republican party will split at the seams. The November election goes to Kerry in a big way. Then the criminal prosecutions begin .....

[Pallas180]

145. H20 - I sure hope you're right.

Both about Fitzgerald and the rethuglicans splitting apart.

They act like the "Stepford Wives"...brains sent out to the
dry cleaners. All they know to do is repeat and repeat talking
points.

BTW - news reports are that dimson and darth vader are using the
pitch "this is too dangerous a time for the country to change leadership, middle of war,,,danger of attack at any time..hundreds
of thousand could die...

the last being true....but fear, fear, fear. Makes you wonder
if there's an implant in their ears from Kissinger.

[robertpaulsen]

149. "too dangerous a time for the country to change leadership"

It's statements like that that make me think that if dimson had to replace Dick, it would NOT be someone outside the PNAC circle. This whole indictment scenario would put the Republican Party in complete disarray, but the PNAC will resort to martial law if they have to to retain their hold of the executive branch.

[Pallas180]

156. Kerry's convention showed up with a whole bunch

of admirals and generals RP. Read Will Pitt's reports from the
convention. He attended the 500 strong Vets delegation.

I think that's a good sign.

Maybe, just maybe, if it comes down to who the military will
take orders from, it might not be the cabal.

[H2O Man]

150. The zombie-crats are about

28% of the voting public. They will vote for bush, because he doesn't believe in evolution. That's the base of his world-view and scientific curiosity. Add to that the 2% of the voting public who reap massive financial gain from bush's economic agenda. Then add another 12% who may know better, but have the Pavlonian-reaction inside the voting booth.

If Fitzgerald goes with the information that he now has, he'll tie the VP's office to illegal activities. There's no free pass here. If bush hands out pardons, he will offend his own party. The rank & file republicans, which include a lot of decent, sincere, hard-working Americans, will withhold support. It'll be a large democratic victory.

One of the things to keep in mind is that Wilson is from a multi-generation republican family. He tells in his book how moderate republicans at the top levels dislike this administration. They want their party back.

[kohodog]

197. The Grand Jury and the reporters, a question.

Wouldn't the suit filed by a number of media outlets to keep the reporters from having to speak to the GJ be a matter of public record? I haven't heard anything about it since it first broke in Early July.

Does anybody here know where to look for that info?

[Pallas180]

129. ALERT- CNN reporting worm/virus running through e mails -

run spyblaster or spybot or your norton, guys.

[coeur_de_lion]

135. MEDIA CONTACT LIST

I was copied & pasted Calimary's list and it seemed to me like a lot of the links were broken, so I edited it, here it is:

MEDIA CONTACT LIST:

“MEET THE PRESS”: [e-mail]

MSNBC-Phone: [phone]

Opinions: mailto:[e-mail]

News: mailto:[e-mail]

Letters to the Editor: mailto:[e-mail]

MSNBC on the Internet
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
________________________________________________________________

CNN- (404) 827 – 1500
Comment line: (404) 827 - 0234
CNN NEWS CHIEF Eason Jordan. 404.827.5111. fax: [phone]. [e-mail]
CNN NEWS DIRECTOR Kim Bondy. 404 827 1500. fax. [phone]
CNN NEWSROOM 404.827.1500 . 404.827.1500. [e-mail]

CNN TV: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/cnntv

CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/dotcom

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Atlanta:
404-827-1500
Washington:
202-898-7900

MORE CNN:
You can communicate your thoughts to Kelli Arena personally at: [e-mail]
You can now send your emails to Eason Jordan at [e-mail] . He's CNN's chief news executive.
_________________________
[e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , miles.o'[e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail],

MORE:
<[e-mail] > Newsweek
<[e-mail] > Keith Olbermann
<mailto:[e-mail] > Washington Post
<[e-mail] > MSNBC Main
<[e-mail] > Chris Matthews

And don’t forget the lovely and charming Brit Hume at the FAUX Network…

[e-mail]

888-369-4762

NOW with Bill Moyers Contacts:
Rick Byrne
Diane Domondon
Ph: 212.560.8406 Ph: 212.560.8300
Email: [e-mail] Email: [e-mail]

SOURCE NOW with Bill Moyers
Web Site: http://www.pbs.org/now


Al Franken, [e-mail] ,

Larry Flynt, [e-mail]

Michael Moore, [e-mail]

Los Angeles Times:
[e-mail]

Los Angeles Times
202 W. 1st St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
[phone]

The Times Orange County
1375 Sunflower Avenue
Costa Mesa, CA 92626-1697
[phone]

Los Angeles Times
Valley Edition
20000 Prairie Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
[phone]

Los Angeles Times
Ventura County Edition
93 S. Chestnut Street
Ventura, CA 93001
[phone]
_________________________________________________________________

New York Times:

PAUL KRUGMAN [e-mail]

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
E-mail to [e-mail] .

OP-ED/EDITORIAL
For information on Op-Ed submissions, call [phone] or send article to [e-mail] .
To write to the editorial page editor, send to [e-mail] .

NEWS DEPARTMENT
To send comments and suggestions (about news coverage only) or to report errors that call for correction, e-mail [e-mail] or leave a message at 1-888-NYT-NEWS.
The Editors
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

The Newsroom
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]

PUBLIC EDITOR
To reach Daniel Okrent, who represents the readers, e-mail [e-mail] or call [phone]. from Eric J in MN

TO WRITE THE PUBLISHER OR PRESIDENT

Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Chairman & Publisher:
[e-mail] .

Janet L. Robinson, President & General Manager:
[e-mail] .
_________________________________________________________________

USA Today:

USA TODAY / USATODAY.com
7950 Jones Branch Drive
McLean, VA 22108-0605
_________________________________________________________________

Washington Post:
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

Ombudsman’s office phone: (202) 334 - 7582 Monday through Friday 7a - 6p

(CBS) 60 Minutes:

ADDRESS:
60 Minutes
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

PHONE: [phone]

TRANSCRIPTS: 1-800-777-TEXT

VIDEOTAPES: 1-800-848-3256

CBS “60 Minutes” email info:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, click on “Contact us” and fill out the online form.

CBS – THE EARLY SHOW (Hannah Storm territory)
The Early Show
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

E-MAIL: [e-mail] .

PHONE: [phone]

[coeur_de_lion]

136. LEGISLATIVE CONTACT LIST

Same here, with a few things added:

LEGISLATIVE CONTACTS:

WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVE:
CONGRESS:
Find your Senator (by state) on this page:
http://www.senate.gov

Alphabetical list of senators with email addresses:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:
Type in your zip code and find your rep:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Congressional Black Caucus:
email links:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbcmember.htm
Snail mail link:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbc108.pdf

SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE:
Orrin G. Hatch (R) UT -- Chairman
Email:
Washington DC Office
104 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
http://hatch.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Offices.Contact

Democratic members of the Senate Judiciary Committee:

Patrick J. Leahy (D) VT
Ranking Democratic member
433 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]


Edward M. Kennedy (D) MA
317 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: kennedy.senate.gov/contact.html


Joseph R. Biden (D) DE
201 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]


Herbert Kohl (D) WI
330 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: kohl.senate.gov/gen_contact.html


Dianne Feinstein (D) CA
331 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: feinstein.senate.gov/email.html


Russell D. Feingold (D) WI
506 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]


Charles E. Schumer (D) NY
313 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: schumer.senate.gov/webform.html


Richard J. Durbin (D) IL
332 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.htm


John Edwards (D) NC
225 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: edwards.senate.gov/contact.html



The 9/11 COMMISSION:
New York Office
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Family Liaison Office
Tel: [phone]
Toll-Free: 1-888-862-0556
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Email addresses for 9/11 Commission members
James Thompson [e-mail]
Tim Roemer [e-mail]
John F. Lehman [e-mail] (not certain on this one)
Bob Kerry [e-mail]
Slade Gorton [e-mail]
Jamie Gorelick [e-mail]
Fred Fielding [e-mail]
Richard Ben-Veniste [e-mail]
Lee Hamilton – vice-chair [e-mail]
Thomas Kean – Chair [e-mail]


DNC
http://www.democrats.org/contact /

Pelosi's email and phone numbers
http://www.house.gov/pelosi /

Daschle's email and phone numbers
http://daschle.senate.gov/write.htm

House Energy Committee
http://www.house.gov/commerce_democrats/feedback.shtml

Senate Energy Committee Ranking Member Bingaman
[e-mail]

Contact your member of congress
http://www.house.gov/writerep /
http://www.vote-smart.org
It not only provides a directory of legislators (contact info) but provides extensive coverage of votes, speeches, etc...
A couple of other cool ones:

The MOST INCREDIBLY HONORABLE HENRY WAXMAN: http://www.henrywaxman.house.gov
In Washington, D.C.
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (fax)
In Los Angeles
8436 West Third Street, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90048
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (fax)

Office of NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Here's Eliot Spitzer's: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!
1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE Capitol Hill Switchboard number!
OR, TRY (877) – 762 – 8762. It’ll get you there, too!
OR, there’s also 1-888-508-2974. This, too, gets you to the Capitol Hill Switchboard TOLL FREE. But sometimes it gets tied up.

[coeur_de_lion]

137. Cailmary -- if you have time, please see if I need to add

anything to the above lists.

[H2O Man]

141. Nice work.

Thanks!

[Pallas180]

143. The Waterman Paper has been moved to Editorials on DU

.

[tom_paine]

151. ENOUGH!!!!!!!!! THERE WILL BE NO PLAME INDICTMENTS! IF THERE ARE

it will be long after the Phony "Election" in November.

[H2O Man]

152. 'Pon my word, Tom....

there will. But there won't be trials until after the election.

And I agree that this thread is enough to keep the conversation going until the grand jury returns the indictments. Sure hope you stop back then.

[Pallas180]

155. Actually we've dug up enough material on "One World Government"

organizations and their tentacles to keep going on these threads
for a long time, Waterman....the shadow government made the mistake
of showing themselves and their plans - and we the people, don't want any part of it.

They need to be called on the carpet, and congresscritters who are
members need to give us, US, an explanation of their seditious behavior.

And then thrown the hell out of office and either be charged with
treason or barred from ever holding or belonging or participating in
any political organization.

Plame has been the tip of the iceberg, as Stand Up Guy so aptly named it.

And I think I speak for everybody here, that we would want your
steady typing fingers guiding us.

Pallas

[H2O Man]

158. Tip of the ice cube

There is a lot of interesting subject matter at hand ......

[shraby]

162. This is off topic

but the threads are going so fast, mine got lost real quick. Does anyone have a list of quotes of the administration stating there are no wmd's in Iraq? There is a ltte in our local paper and the wing-nut still thinks there are wmd's in Iraq. Need a list of quotes really bad for a rebuttal.

[Pallas180]

164. Schraby-google "No WMD" & betcha get a lot of quotes

NO WMD + Iraq

[shraby]

170. Thanks Pallas

I'll do that.

[Pallas180]

165. Watching MSNBC - Gen Clark shutting up Matthews-can't get a word in BWAAAA

for once Matthews can't get a word in . He's trying to shut
the general up and the general is having none of it...talking
right over Mathews like Matthews does to everyone else.

It's a wahoo....I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

[Pallas180]

167. Jim Lehrer is best convention coverage-less talk, letting us hear speeches

.

[Pallas180]

171. Cheeez,Carter interview with Lehrer just laid out the whole PNAC & named

names - including saying he thought the leadership of this
country was a coalition of dimson, rummy, and cheney instead
of the pResident alone; among other things he said straight
out.

Speaking about the distrust of this government around the world
and that in 200 years we have never had such an extremist right wing
government, and that our direction and principles have been completely changed from what they have been for the past 200 years to
one of extremism. And how the admin is keeping the American people in
a state of "nervousness".

Read his speech to the convention which was incredibly good.

"We cannot lead if our leaders mislead."

[tom_paine]

172. From your lips to God's ears

And I shall return to eat my delecatble plate of crow, in that event...

[shraby]

173. Will this hurt the Plame case?

FBI names new Phila. chief

The FBI agent in charge of investigating whether top Bush administration officials leaked the identity of an undercover CIA agent as political payback against her husband has been named to head the Philadelphia FBI office.

FBI Director Robert Mueller has designated John C. Eckenrode, a 29-year veteran, to be special agent in charge of the Philadelphia division, the agency announced today.

Eckenrode heads the current probe of the disclosure of CIA officer Valerie Plame's identity to conservative syndicated columnist Robert Novak.

Bush administration critics have charged that someone in the White House or administration leaked Plame's identity as a covert CIA agent last year in order to discredit her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Wilson, a former ambassador to Niger, provided evidence to the government that undercut President Bush's claim that the government of Iraq had sought uranium from Niger to develop nuclear weapons.

<http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/9249173.htm?1c>

[tom_paine]

176. Some Good Old Fashioned Imperial Bribery or getting him out of the way

Either way it's:

Oh, and turn your notes over to Mr. hsuB on your way out.

He'll "take over".

[kohodog]

177. seems like a shrub tactic. Like with Max Cleland on the 911 commission

Promote them to silence them. This sucks. ]

Send out more letters everyone. The pressure is obviously having an effect.

I don't think this will work for them though. I love the quote in the article:

"Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the local FBI office, said it is not unheard of for an agent heading a high-level probe to be transferred before the probe is finished.

"It happens," she said".

Shit happens George W. You're about to learn that when you sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.

KEEP WRITING LETTERS! KEEP THE PRESSURE ON!

Truth will win.

[TacticalPeek]

186. Nah. Just means his work is done and time now for his next assignment.

Another hint that things are wrapping up for this stage of the process.

Perhaps.

[spotbird]

204. And that he won't be necessary for a trial.

IMO this isn't good news.

[H2O Man]

223. His new position

will have zero affect on a trial. The investigatory phase would clearly be over at the time of a trial. Any possible testimony from him would not change at all.

If he had been demoted and sent to West Siberia, it would seem kind of cheesey. I do not see this as being necessarily bad. It could be quite the opposite.

It's possible to see things like this as having the potential to be good news or bad news. There are few advantages accrued by seeing all events in a negative light.

[Pallas180]

180. Now, now, Tom -there's every reason to suppose Fitzgerald is

going to get him.

And if Fitz doesn't, the French will.

So it's a win-win for the American people.

[Pallas180]

221. We may have to wait until October, but Cheney will have legal

problems.

[RebelYell]

174. Head FBI Plame Investigator Off Case - Promoted to Philly Chief

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x710505

Posted by shockingelk in LBN

[shockingelk]

175. yup, while every reporter is going to be covering convention

This is suspicious at best and an admission of guilt at worst. Or another kinda of best in a way.

[Pallas180]

179. Interesting they try to hide "news" while all engrossed in Dem convention-

yes it's possible that Agent Eckinrode was doing too good a job,
but that places Mueller in the "bad guy" column.

The other possibiilty is that most of the investigation is over,

The other possibility is that the FBI in Philadelphia,Pennsylvania which I seem to remember was a hotbed of mafioso and corrupt agents, and which is the home area of Theresa Kerry, needs a topshelf "special agent in charge".

The reporter who Theresa told to shove it, works for a Scaiffe rag
out of Pittsburgh.

There's one other option. I knew a "Special Agent in Charge of a
very big office. While he was cleaning up mafia and rico type matters, he was offered a post in Missouri. He had the option to
refuse and did.

Maybe Agent Eckinrode has a family that he doesn't want living in
#1 target, DC. It could be an entirely personal decision.

So let's calm down and see what we see.

Anybody want to send our letters to Mueller at the FIB?

[shockingelk]

183. since speculation is rampant: the Lewinski tie in!

The FBI's chief Plame leak investigator, John C. Eckenrode is taken off the investigation and assigned to replace Jeffrey A. Lampinski, who is leaving to work at Allied Security (all that here: http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/9248757.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp ).

The 47th wealthiest person in the World, Ron Owen Perelman last year bought a majority stake in Allied Security, which has clients around the Republican convention BTW. (http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/54/2003/LIR.jhtml?passListId=54&passYear=2003&passListType=Person&uniqueId=3GOC&datatype=Person )

Ronald Owen Perelman helped Monica Lewinski get her WH internship (http://www.askmen.com/men/business_politics_60/67c_ron_perelman.html )

:)

[Pallas180]

188. That information seems incorrect.Monica's stepfather got the intern job

for her, was what was widely published several years ago. And Perelman is not her stepfather.

Are you certain of what kind of accurate or credible source
"Men's World" is?

[shockingelk]

189. He's obviously involved with her getting the job in some way

http://www.google.com/search?q=Perelman+lewinsky+revlon

I'm mostly just making an extreme stretch for humor. People worth billions of dollars are connected to many many events and other people.

I've even seen George Bush and Ted Kennedy touching each other!

[Pallas180]

190. ELK, this is a thread on Plame-Cheney - Did Monica have anything

to do with the Cheney bunch?

[H2O Man]

196. Nothing.

Zero. Mr. Elk was making a joke. But Monica was not part of a larger earthly plan. She may have been part of a cosmic reminder that human beings have faults. It's mildly amusing to listen to right-wing "christians" express outrage at Clinton's earthy weakness, and point to the Bible ..... not realizing that the Bible is filled with stories of great men who had similar weaknesses.

But, if we were to consider leads to distraction, Monica ranks high among them. There is no need to mention her name again on the Plame Threads.

[Pallas180]

191. Sen. Byrd on Charlie Rose angry at cabal underminig Constituion

new book out :"Losing America"

[coeur_de_lion]

192. off topic -- anybody catch the Big Dawg at the DNC last night?

Brilliant!

The republicans were kinda mean to me until after I was out of office and then they really liked me. Enough to give me a tax break. I can't believe I am so well cared for by the current president. I almost sent them a thank you card for my tax cut until I realized the rest of you are footing the bill for it.

. . . in other words, they NEED a divided America -- we don't

SEND ME

Strength and wisdom are NOT opposing values!!

[H2O Man]

193. I thought he was very good.....

in fact, so were Presidents Jimmy Carter and Al Gore.

[coeur_de_lion]

194. It was a great night.

I caught bits and pieces of Gore's speech (phone kept ringing), some of Carter's and every word of Clinton's. I'll have to look for the transcripts to catch Gore and Carter.

I sure do miss the Big Dog.

[Pallas180]

205. Words to remember

President Jimmy Carter - the most magnificent speech he ever made.

these points put it over the top:

In repudiating extremism we need to recommit ourselves to a few common-sense principles that should transcend partisan differences.

First, we cannot enhance our own security if we place in jeopardy what is most precious to us, namely, the centrality of human rights in our daily lives and in global affairs.

Second, we cannot maintain our historic self-confidence as a people if we generate public panic.

Third, we cannot do our duty as citizens and patriots if we pursue an agenda that polarizes and divides our country.

Next, we cannot be true to ourselves if we mistreat others.

And finally, in the world at large we cannot lead if our leaders mislead.

[coeur_de_lion]

207. You got a link for the transcript? I haven't read it yet

[shraby]

213. There are several links

on Buzzflash to transcripts of speeches.

[H2O Man]

225. Carter was the "elder statesman"

that the party really needed. One of the right-wing tv talking heads said that Americans will think of blind-folded hostages with Carter. That may be, but they'll think of decapitated hostages when they see bush.

Carter spoke with a controlled passion. He knows about the ugly tricks that the people in this administration are capable of. He was right on target. I thought it was one of the most powerful political speeches I've had the pleasure of hearing.

[robertpaulsen]

237. How very, very true.

Americans will think of blind-folded hostages with Carter. That may be, but they'll think of decapitated hostages when they see bush.

Carter also got the short end of the stick when Poppy Bush' October Surprise kept the hostages in captivity longer than they should have.

I only caught parts of Carter's speech, but what I did see had me captivated. It was great to hear him refer to Shrub's ability to "mislead". I'm sure Al Sharpton will have plenty more to say on that subject tonight. ;)

[H2O Man]

195. Blair Fires Top Intelligence Expert!

Tony Blair fires the top UK Intelligence and Security Committee member John Morrison, after Morrison exposes Blair for presenting inflated and false estimates on WMDs in Iraq. See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3925499.stm

Funny, eh? Sounds vaguely familiar.

[coeur_de_lion]

200. Sad . . . I used to like Tony Blair

[H2O Man]

201. I used to think he was

worthy of respect.That was back in the 1990s. It is obvious that he knows better than to do the things he is doing, but lacks the character.

[coeur_de_lion]

203. Part of the reason I initially bought the * story about

WMD (now don't flame me!) was because Tony Blair was saying it too, and I thoguht he had integrity.

I think I expected lies and manipulation from *, but I didn't from Blair and it makes me sad that he has sunk to this level.

I don't know where he is coming from anymore. Was he in on the phony intelligence or was he fooled by * & Co.? He doesn't seem stupid enough to have been fooled.

[Pallas180]

206. H20- I think Tony's goose is cooked -but

he'll have a good job with Carlyle just as John Major does.

[sheelz]

202. I don't know if this helps you...

Who is Edward Peck? Is this the same person in both articles???

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/04/23/discrepancies_noted_in_kerrys_record/


http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=7013&fcategory_desc=Israeli%20Palestinian%20Middle%20East%20Conflict

Great work everybody!!! :yourock:

[coeur_de_lion]

208. links for DNC speeches last night

These are all over the DU board I'm sure, but I thought I would put them in here for the heck of it!

Vice-President Al Gore
http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=125919&ct=158741

Pres. Bill Clinton
http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=125919&ct=158734


President Jimmy Carter
http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=130840&ct=158731

[loudsue]

209. I still think getting the lead investigator of the Plame case transferred

is

HUGE!

I'm surprised that there's not more to-do about it on the PLAME thread here!

I've got to go pick up a newly spayed puppy dog, so I've gotta run for now, but I'll check back later.

Gotta kick this back up to the top.

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[RebelYell]

215. John Kerry Dumps Joe Wilson From Campaign Team

WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- Last week, the presidential campaign of Democratic candidate Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) very publicly distanced itself from former National Security Advisor Samuel "Sandy" Berger after it became known that Berger was under investigation for removing highly classified documents from the National Archives. Talon News reported that Kerry's anti-terror policy was removed from the candidate's web site immediately following Berger's dismissal as a campaign advisor.

But in the last few days, another advisor has apparently been jettisoned from the Kerry campaign. All traces of former Ambassador Joe Wilson, the central figure in the controversy of faulty intelligence about Iraq and uranium has disappeared from the Kerry web site. Wilson had appeared on a web site www.restorehonesty.com where he restated his criticism of the Bush administration. The link now goes directly to the main page of www.johnkerry.com and no reference to Wilson can be found on the entire site.

Wilson was discredited by a Senate Intelligence Committee report that contradicted Wilson's public statements about how he was selected for a sensitive mission to Niger in 2002 and the results of his report about Saddam Hussein's attempt to purchase uranium in Africa. Wilson represented his investigation as proof that President Bush misled the United States in making the case for the invasion of Iraq. An investigation into British intelligence confirms that Bush's claim was "well founded."

It is likely that Kerry's handlers took advantage of the Berger affair to quietly break official contact with someone who has proved to be something of a loose cannon. The ambassador was known for his vitriolic rhetoric against members of the Bush administration, particularly political advisor Karl Rove. Last year he suggested that Rove be "frog-marched from the White House in handcuffs," over the alleged leak of his wife's identity. The Kerry campaign did not respond to a Talon News inquiry about Wilson's departure.

http://www.talonnews.com/news/2004/july/0727_kerry_dumps_wilson.shtml

(I believe this is a right wing news site. I checked Kerry's site - I saw no mention of Wilson anywhere, and the restore honesty site is redirected to Kerry's site.)

Edited to add restory honesty site info

[coeur_de_lion]

218. Oh this does not look good n/t

[H2O Man]

222. Do not take it seriously.....

when a right-wing source says Wilson has been "discredited." These are the same sources that said the Niger-Iraqi yellow cake uranium deal has been found credible. It hasn't. Not even close. There is no credible source to support that. To say the infamous British report supports the Niger link moves it back to when Donald Rumsfeld said the president was "technically correct," because he was quoting a British report. The British report was based entirely on the bogus documents that Wilson, the Niger Ambassador, and a 4-Star General all investigated and found to be fakes.

These are also the same right-wing sources that reported on the huge divisions between the Kerry camp and the Clintons. Yeah, right. It's kind of hard to score last night's speeches as helping president bush. The Plame grand jury will likewise be as helpful to buch/cheney as the Clintons were.

[coeur_de_lion]

224. I was reacting more to the fact that Kerry took the Wilson

web page down and/or maybe "fired" him as advisor. I sure would like to see that verified -- or debunked. I'll have to go on a search when I get home tonight.

I *know* that the RW claims about uranium are bogus. Knew that just as soon as they exposed Valerie Plame as a CIA agent last July.

I'm just politically naive, Ducky -- not dim!

I am just concerned and wondering if Kerry has distanced himself from Wilson in any way. Might spell trouble for the case down the road. But there is much more to the story I'm sure. Or maybe there is nothing to it. Like you said.

[H2O Man]

229. The right-wing source

builds the foundation for Kerry "firing" Wilson on two things: (1) Sandy B, who officially "removed" himself; and (2) the claim that Wilson was "discredited."

Sandy Berger made an error in judgement that has caused a temporary flap. The republicans are exploiting it for far more than it's worth.

Wilson did not err. His judgement was accurate. The republicans are trying to confuse people by saying he was discredited.

The fact that the web site changed is not an indicator that Kerry has lost any faith in the man's judgement. It is simply that the Plame indictments need to be put in a position of being above partisan politics.

The extreme right wing lacks the moral capacity to tell the truth twice consecutively. In regard to the Plame case, the only accurate thing the extreme right has reported was when Novak exposed Plame a year ago. That's hardly a record to be proud of.

There is NO PROBLEM between Kerry and Wilson. None.

[RebelYell]

234. Oh boy

I just can't communicate well today....and it doesn't come across in my wording.

I am 100% sure Wilson wasn't fired by Kerry. The article I posted from Talon is just another smear and wishful thinking on their part.

The facts of the issue are correct in the article, i.e., web pages being redirected and/or gone. It's the conclusions that Talon comes to which are incorrect.

I didn't intend for anyone to think that it was correct in totality.

There....I think I've made myself clear. Whew. The words just aren't flowing today! :crazy:

[coeur_de_lion]

248. thanks for reassuring me, H2O

Whatta relief.

I was thinking today that things in the Plame case were slowing down. I thought that perhaps I would stop posting/reading the thread for awhile. Then I thought -- the minute I do, all kinds of things will break and I'll miss them.

Still waiting for some sign that the GJ has wrapped up it's case.

[RebelYell]

226. The point

I'm trying to make is:

The restore honesty site is now redirected to Kerry's home page, and all mention of Wilson on Kerry's site is gone. I saw "Paid for by John Kerry for President, Inc." at the bottom of Wilson's site a few weeks ago, when it was mentioned on these threads.

Kerry also had Wilson's page on his site at http://www.johnkerry.com/honesty which now redirects to the front page.

It speaks for itself - Kerry dropped him as an advisor on foreign affairs.

A Whois search shows that the RestoreHonesty.com domain is registered to:

Registrant:
John Kerry for President, Inc.
519 C St. NE
Washington, District of Columbia 20002
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: RESTOREHONESTY.COM
Created on: 22-Oct-03
Expires on: 22-Oct-04
Last Updated on: 22-Oct-03

I posted this so some of the less informed readers realize that Wilson WAS a part of the campaign.

Thanks for your insight, H2O.

[shraby]

228. It's probably wise to

distance the Kerry campaign from Wilson right now. When (and if) the Plame indictments come out, Wilson will undoubtedly be called to testify. If Wilson is connected to Kerry, the Bushies could say that Wilson is a biased witness. No truth, but since when did the Bushies ever let that bother them?

[H2O Man]

236. It in no way implies

that Kerry dropped him as an advisor on foreign affairs. It does imply that the Kerry website will not remain stagnate and unchanging.

I am curious: at the bottom of you other thread on this on GD, a person posts that some democratic operatives tried to disrupt/discredit his site on the Plame case. Maybe we need to look closer at that .... and to consider some of the people we encountered in the past.

[Wind Dancer]

230. I'm still catching up on the past threads

and salute all of you for true, investigative journalism. Excellent job everyone!

:toast:

Another person who may be interested in our research is Noam Chomsky. I will try to find out how to contact.

A great quote of his ""If you assume that there is no hope, you guarantee that there will be no hope. If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, there are opportunities to change things, etc., there's a chance to contribute to the making of a better world. That's your choice."

I also wanted to add that I loved the speech given last night by the Reverend David Alston who served with Kerry. His voice was powerful, passionate and sincere. I hope we see more of him in the future.

Edited to add:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/Noam_Chomsky.html

http://www.chomsky.info/

[robertpaulsen]

239. Great to have you back FrustratedDemInNC!

And thanks again for that Black Caucus link. Calimary included it in the permanent list of contacts.

Great idea with Chomsky. The more intelligent people who know about our work, the better!

[Wind Dancer]

244. Thank you, robertpaulsen, for your ongoing

energy and time. It's good to be back with such a group of dedicated folks trying to find out answers and spread the info.

[Pallas180]

240. H20 - what do you think of

Noam Chomsky?

[H2O Man]

243. I like Noam Chomsky.

I like him for many of the same reasons I like Dennis K. There may come a time in the future than people with their gentle character will be recognized as the most powerful of leaders. Even today, when that is not possible, I think it is important to listen to their message.

What do you think of him?

[Wind Dancer]

246. I have read several of his books

and have been impressed with his knowledge re: the Middle East. He is not well-liked by mainstream media, obviously but he is not afraid to confront controversy.

[Pallas180]

250. I don't know enough about him & his philopsophy to form an

intelligent opinion.

But there seems to be a lot of negative out "there" about him.

[H2O Man]

273. I haven't found myself

in agreement with a great deal of what he says. But he is honest. He is sincere. And he has a wonderful capacity to discuss issues. I appreciate that.

Years ago, when I was in my rebellious phase, I was more inclined to listen to two brothers, the Berrigans. I've saved the letters and notes we used to exchange. If we were to have a discussion of "otherworldly" elders, I'm far better able to discuss Daniel and Phillip.

[Pallas180]

278. smiling - H20 - I can fully

believe that. Those are likely important letters for posterity
one day.

History was made.
Perhaps history is being made again.

[Pallas180]

251. Corzine speaking at convention now. I'd like to ask him why

he's a member of Bilderberg and does he
really support One World Government instead
of the Constitution of the United States.

[Me.]

257. Sent the Waterman Paper To

Ted Koppel today.

[Pallas180]

266. Hee Hee. ME I beat you to it last week, but the more dupes they

receive, the more they may say. hmmmmm, let's take a look.

[Pallas180]

276. Wahoo-Ted Kennedy is inviting opponent to Boston Tea Party-methinks

he's subtley threatenting 1/2 joshingly, revolution.

[Pallas180]

280. Do you all find yourselves applauding the television also ?

:bounce:

[Pallas180]

270. H20 RP and I

would like your opinion on a series of posts we have around
#252 , #264 and on.

This is the WMD Khan Halli tracking on the internet thing.

Thanks

Pallas

[H2O Man]

286. Yes, I've been reading them.

And making some small comments. Very impressive. I'll head back up there.

What did you think of Ted Kennedy's speech? I thought it was great. He had me laughing and clapping in my living room. Man, I think he is such a great senator! I also liked that the message was similar to some of the things on this thread.

[Pallas180]

294. H20 - I thought Ted Kennedy was terriffic once

he got going.

And I had the same thought. Very similar to things we write here.

Makes you wonder if he's reading us.

And repeatedly referred to the revolution --- hmmmm -

[Pallas180]

295. BTW, we have a bad storm and cable is knocked out, so no convention

watching . boo hoo

AH - radio. I forgot about that old fashioned thing called radio

Ron Reagan on now.

What's I miss?

[H2O Man]

296. When he was a young boy

at the top of his class in jr. high school, a teacher asked Malcolm Little what he planned to be when he gre up? Malcolm said he wanted to be a lawyer. The teacher mocked him, and said that blacks couldn't be lawyers. He told Malcolm to be realistic, to be satisfied being a carpenter, and to know his position in society.

Even up to the month he died, Malcolm told Alex H. how he liked to think what he would have been like if he had become an attorney.

Tonight, America found out. The key-note speaker, Obama, is Malcolm X with a law degree. It was so powerful.

[Pallas180]

299. this is quite a bit different than calling the obscenely rich yr base

isn't it?

[Pallas180]

297. Wonder who they sold it to?

Maybe we have something to look forward to with our own criminals"

The Observer (London, UK)

The law is finally catching up with General Augusto Pinochet, the former Chilean dictator.

Having for years eluded justice on allegations of torture, murder and international terrorism, he will shortly be facing charges of corruption, tax evasion and the laundering of enormous profits from drug dealing and the privatisation of large swaths of the Chilean economy in the 1970s.

The reputation he carefully cultivated for financial probity which was trumpeted by his many supporters around the world - from Margaret Thatcher to Henry Kissinger - faces final demolition.

Revelations from the US Senate's Sub-Committee on Investigations this month about Pinochet's financial dealings will ensure this. They also make extremely unpleasant reading for the UK government, the British judiciary and the Bank of England.

While under arrest in a small house by a golf course in Surrey he was able to shuffle millions of pounds of his personal fortune through Riggs, a Washington-based bank with a branch in London.
In the past 10 days Riggs, which held accounts for other Pinochet family members, the Chilean army and the secret police, has been sold off for $779 million, a fraction of its former worth.

more
http://www.ktok.com/script/headline_newsmanager.php?id=...

[Pallas180]

300. PLS GO TO PLAME THREAD #14 - THIS THREAD CLOSED

:hi:

see you on thread 14