What exactly are these people protesting?

[Still_Loves_John]

I mean, I understand that they have a right to protest the convention, so I don't really want this topic to be about that, but as much as I'm hearing about the protestors I still don't really have a clear view of what they stand for. I mean, anarchists? From what I've seen of these people they just seem like they're really protesting anything in particular, they're just going out to protest. It's strange to me.

[skooooo]

1. What "these" are you referring to??

What people??

[Still_Loves_John]

7. I'm sorry, that seemed more insulting than I mean it to be

I just really don't know how to identify them. The protestors at the convention.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Which people? Which protest? Which convention?

Please clarify.

[Still_Loves_John]

5. Sorry, I meant the ones protesting the Dem convention

[Th1onein]

47. I agree. I don't like it that Dems are protesting our own Convention!

What happened to showing solid support for our candidate?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. repukes are protesting in boston

[Th1onein]

50. Ah, I see........Geez, I'm a dodo bird.

eom

[genius]

3. Talk to them. They don't see a difference

I agree with them about Bush. But I think they're crazy when it comes to Kerry. I'm upset with Kerry over the platform and his right-wing shift but the difference between the two is glaringly obvious.

[Still_Loves_John]

9. That's kind of the point I was trying to make

I just think it's very hard to believe that there's no difference between Kerry and Bush.

[2Design]

41. big difference...one cares about people and the cares about

self only and corporations.....

[lostnfound]

46. Difference on many important issues. But little difference on..

basic militarism and deference to corporate power. Yes, Bush is a corporate wetdream and his version of militarism is fanatical. But will the Democrats challenge the power structure that controls our "democracy"? Or challenge excessive militarism,restoring the US to simply DEFENSE?

Not likely.

[G_j]

4. if you are talking about the DNC

From the website of United For Peace and Justice, the same group organizing in NYC.
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2426

Demonstrations and Activities During the Democratic National Convention


A range of activities are being planned before and during the Democratic National Convention (July 26-29). Below is a list of some of the events in place, with links for information. Please note, this list is not comprehensive, and details do change, so please check back. This is intended as a calendar of events, this is not a list of UFPJ-endorsed activities.

VETERANS FOR PEACE: 2004 CONVENTION
Annual National Convention, July 22-25 at Emerson College in Boston
July 22: Get-Together Cruise on Boston Harbor
July 23: "Veterans Address the Nation", Faneuil Hall
July 24: Reception and Banquet, Boston Public Library
July 25: Peace Rally on Boston Common

"WE THE PEOPLE: Defeating Militarism and the Politics of Fear"
Veterans for Peace has taken a leading role in the movement to end the war and occupation of Iraq. Their annual national conference is being held in Boston right before the Democratic National Convention in order to send a strong message to the Democratic Party. Many of the activities during the Veterans for Peace Convention will be open to the public. For more information about the ongoing work of Veterans for Peace and for details about this convention, click here: http://www.veteransforpeace.org

BOSTON SOCIAL FORUM
Friday July 23rd, Saturday July 24th and Sunday July 25th at the University of Massachusetts at Boston

A coalition of Boston area, progressive community organizations, non-profits, and unions will be hosting what promises to be an exciting event—the Boston Social Forum (BSF). A forum within the World Social Forum process, the BSF has been called to help progressive activists to begin to answer some very basic questions: What kind of future do we want for Boston? For our region? For our nation? For the world? What is our vision of a better society?

Through a series of workshops, cultural events, plenary sessions, and giant convocations of the entire forum, we are encouraging progressive organizations of all kinds to showcase their best analysis of the present, and their best ideas for the future, across the breadth of human knowledge—politics, economics, science and technology, culture and faith—in the context of corporate globalization.
The goals of the event are simple: encourage various social movements to exchange information, network with one another, form new alliances, and push our movements forward a bit more towards the next stage of our development.

We invite all progressive activists, interested community members, and delegates to the Democratic National Convention, to come to the BSF and become part of the global process to build a better, more human-centered society. The forum is governed by a Planning Committee that sets policy. Organizing is carried out by Working Groups and a Secretariat (or Admin Team). Organizations that would like to become involved in the BSF may also participate as Allied Organizations.

For more information and to get involved, click here: http://www.bostonsocialforum.org

INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS CONFERENCE, at the Boston Social Forum
Friday July 23rd, Saturday July 24th and Sunday July 25th

The American Friends Service Committee and the European Network for Peace and Human Rights are working together to organize an international peace conference at the Boston Social Forum. Leading figures from European and U.S. peace movements will be joined by their counterparts from Asia, Africa and Latin America with the goal of reinforcing our movements through sharing analysis, strategies and priorities; networking; and developing joint campaigns and solidarity.

For more information, click here: http://www.afsc.org/pes.htm or call AFSC at 617-661-6130

PEOPLE'S PARTIES
Sunday, July 25th - in neighborhoods around Boston and around the country

Mayor Thomas Menino of Boston is hosting neighborhood parties for the delegates to the Democratic Nominating Convention on the day before the DNC opens. On July 25th Mayor Menino will use this parties to "show off" the successes of his administration. A Boston-wide planning process has led to the plans for People's Parties around Boston, and near where the delegates' parties will be happening, offering an opportunity for the people of Boston to let the world know what's really going on in their neighborhoods. All the parties will have a "Fund the Dream" umbrella theme, but each party will also be unique and will put front and center the community's understanding of what the "dream" is -- what they want their communities to look like, what the important struggles are for them, etc. To read more about Fund the Dream, and to download petitions, etc., please see http://www.fundthedream.org .

The Peoples' Parties are also an opportunity to be part of a national mobilization in your own community! Plan a People's Party for Sunday, July 25th in your neighborhood or community. Make it big or small. Start meeting with other grassroots groups in your area. Get neighbors, friends, kids out to barbeque, visit, listen to music, share the arts, play games, and raise consciousness about the campaign to Fund the Dream. This is a national campaign to shift the money from the military budget to meeting human needs. It is anti-war and pro-community. It is a chance for you to *build relationships* with other groups and with other people -- so that we can big enough and strong enough and *connected* enough to meet whatever challenge lays ahead of us on the day after the election.

Let's send a message to the Democrats and to whoever is elected in November, that our movements are growing in numbers, that we are aiming to stop the war(s) at home and the war(s) abroad, and that we believe another world is possible and that we are going to fight for it!

For more information, contact [e-mail]

Information on how to organize a People's Party can be found by clicking on this text link.

OTHER ACTIVITIES:

Rallies, marches, teach-ins, forums and other activities are in the planning stages. Some of the events planned include:

Monday, July 26th

Rally against Police Brutality, Prison Abuse and the Patriot Act
sponsored by the Black Tea Society
10 am to 12 noon on the Boston Common, followed by a march to the Fleet Center
for more information: http://www.blackteasociety.org

Speak Out on Civil Liberties
sponsored by the Kucinch Campaign
12 noon at St.Paul's Church on Tremont Street

Alternative Freedom Trail - tour through Boston
sponsored by the Mass. Civil Liberties Union
2 pm to 5 pm

Dump the Democrats
sponsored by the Socialist Party, USA
2 pm
Government Center
for more information: http://www.sp-usa.org/democracy /

Rally against the Occupations of Iraq and Palestine
sponsored by Boston Coalition for Palestinian Rights and United for Justice with Peace
5 pm to 7 pm


Tuesday, July 27th

Calling All Delegates: People's Solutions to National and Global Crisis
10 am to 2 pm
Faneuil Hall

Really REALLY Democratic Bazaar
sponsored by Black Tea Society
12 noon to 8 pm
Boston Common
for more information: http://www.blackteasociety.org

Eyes Wide Open Exhibit opposing U.S. war in Iraq
sponsored by American Friends Service Committee
9 am to 9 pm, program with speakers and music starts at 7:30 pm
Copley Square


Wednesday, July 28th

Rally against Detainee Abuse from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib Prison
sponsored by United for Justice with Peace
12 noon to 2 pm
Copley Square
for more information: http://justicewithpeace.org or call 617-354-2169

Demonstration to protest plans for a Bio-Terror Lab in the heart of Boston
sponsored by ACE
3 pm to 8 pm
Roxbury/South End (exact location TBA)


Thursday, July 29th

Anti-War Rally and March
sponsored by Black Tea Society
10 am to 12 pm at Copley Square followed by march to Fleet Center, return to Boston Common for rally
for more information contact: http://www.blackteasociety.org

Rally for Peace and Justice
sponsored by United for Peace and Justice, in cooperation with AFSC, United Progressive Alliance and Great Boston United for Justice with Peace Coalition
5 pm to 11 pm
demonstration zone near Fleet Center


Friday, July 30th

Kick Off of DNC2RNC March
sponsored by the Next Step Collective
10 am gather, location TBA


Other activities during the week are being planned by the Black T(ea) Society, by 9/11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, and others. Please check this site regularly for more information and updates.

www.unitedforpeace.org

[genius]

6. The Veterans for Peace are rallying aroud the issues.

I fully support them. But the IAC email attacks the Democrats themselves.

[G_j]

11. I looked back over

the list of events and didn't see reference to the IAC, did I miss something?

Veterans for Peace, the Friends Service Committee and others feel it is their responsibility to be at both conventions.
Myself, I may go to NYC but haven't decided yet.

[genius]

26. I posted an email about the IAC in another thread

They are protesting the Bush-Kerry agenda, as if there is one.

[G_j]

38. not a big fan

of the IAC myself. :-)

[Still_Loves_John]

8. But some of these don't make sense

"Rally against Detainee Abuse from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib Prison
sponsored by United for Justice with Peace
12 noon to 2 pm
Copley Square
for more information: http://justicewithpeace.org or call 617-354-2169"

They're protesting the Democrats for this? It seems odd to me.

"Rally against Police Brutality, Prison Abuse and the Patriot Act
sponsored by the Black Tea Society
10 am to 12 noon on the Boston Common, followed by a march to the Fleet Center
for more information: http://www.blackteasociety.org "

Kerry is for repealing the patriot act.

"Calling All Delegates: People's Solutions to National and Global Crisis
10 am to 2 pm
Faneuil Hall "

These are the kind that confuse me. I guess I just think that protests are supposed to be against one particular thing. When I see a protest about something like this, it just seems like people protesting for the sake of protesting.

"Dump the Democrats
sponsored by the Socialist Party, USA
2 pm
Government Center
for more information: http://www.sp-usa.org/democracy /"

Well, this one makes sense, lol. They can stay.

[ConsAreLiars]

15. "protest" is your word (and the corporatist media's)

When you try to fit all these events and activities into the semantic space delimited by the word "protest" you will end up being confused by why the events don't fit the stereotype, or you must falsify and misrepresent the actual events, or you will have to find a better word.

I suggest that the fact that you (and Big Brother) describe the events as "protests" when the organizers use other words is the source of your problem.

[Still_Loves_John]

19. Um...ok

What should I call them?

The thought police will be pleased when I tell them the new codeword.

[ConsAreLiars]

23. Call "them" whatever suits your mindset

But don't denounce "them" when the word you choose is a poor fit to reality.

(edit: add quotation marks where needed)

[Still_Loves_John]

32. I'm not meaning to be insulting

I just honestly don't know any word to refer to them as besides protestors. And I use "them" to refer to...them because the they're a large and varied group of people who all represent different agendas. I don't mean it in a condescending way.

[ConsAreLiars]

42. This is just a pet peeve of mine

You've got it right when you say "they're a large and varied group of people who all represent different agendas." Lumping them all together and expecting all these groups and folks to have a uniform set of goals or agreement on tactics as implied in the question "What exactly are these people protesting?" hit that hot button.

Language does matter. The Cons are masters of deceit and use semantically loaded words to paint a false picture, and then use their control of media to get these loaded descriptors into common use in order to shape popular perception.

[G_j]

17. "Kerry is for repealing the patriot act."

I don't think that is true though I believe both Kerry and Edwards have called for a few changes.


-Rally against Detainee Abuse from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib Prison

You could probably say concerns over this cross all party lines as does the issue of peace. Perhaps it would help to clarify that people are 'advocating' as well as protesting.

I won't be there but I do see it as part of the democratic process.

[Still_Loves_John]

20. You're right

He's not against it entirely, since it's a large bill and lots of it has to do with practical updates of law enforcement, but he's against what most people are mad about.

And I understand your second point, but it seems like when they protest, say, Abu Ghraib at the Democratic convention, they implicate the Democrats. It seems counterintuitive to their cause.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

48. Repealing? No. Expanding?.... Perhaps

But Kerry stopped short of supporting a proposal by his running mate, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, to create a new domestic intelligence agency similar to the British MI5 agency. Supporters of a new agency say the FBI has been more concerned historically about criminal investigations than intelligence; opponents fear a domestic spy agency threatening Americans' privacy.

Edwards made it clear later at a Democratic fund-raiser in Los Angeles that he had backed away from that approach, proposed during last winter's primary elections, and that Kerry's plan was "our plan."

He said the plan was "just plain common sense."

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/07/17/election2004/21_39_167_16_04.prt

[k in IA]

10. I knew what you meant and it didn't seem like a slam - just curiosity.

[Suspicious]

12. Perpetual war, profit before people,

police brutality, Patriot Act, human rights abuses...you know, all those issues the "delusional far left" care a lot about. <sarcasm off>

[Still_Loves_John]

21. But mainstream Democrats care about those issues too

So I don't see the point in protesting them.

[Suspicious]

29. I have no doubt "mainstream" Democrats

do care about these issues.

It's the party leadership that doesn't seem to. Thus, the demonstrations.

[genius]

31. Can't we fix the party after the election. Let's form a liberal version

of the DLC to push the party in the correct direction - but let's present a united front to kick Bush out. Bush is likely to end all life on Earth. He's a madman. Noone could be that bad.

[Suspicious]

45. "Let's form a liberal version of the DLC..."

That's a nice idea, but I'm afraid we would fall far short of raising the capital required to buy back the party leadership. :)

I am also afraid that the Democratic base will have no interest in moving the party in the other direction if Kerry manages a win in November. The majority will be satisfied with the win. This is pure speculation on my part, though it is based on much observation and discussion.

I am more afraid of complacency on the part of the Democratic base than I am of Bush. This country is headed in the wrong direction - fast, and I don't see the party leadership even bothering to pay lip service to the changes that need to be made - in our foreign policy, especially.

[genius]

30. It's counter-productive. and it helps Bush.

Kerry is clearly better and I wish they would at least wait to protest him until Bush is out. If Kerry messes up, then they should protest him but not while Bush is still in office.

[liberalmuse]

13. While going to peace marches...

I'm all for protesting. Yes, the Democratic Party is a lot better than the Republican Party, but there are so many 'suits' who are so far removed from most of the American people it isn't funny. Most of those assholes do not represent the average American. I'm all for purging Congress and all of D.C., and kicking ALL of their sorry asses out (except for maybe a handful).

However, I have to say how sick to death I am of the 'Free Mumia' crowd, the LaRoche cultists, anarchists and fucking PETA. I'm a strict vegetarian who deplores how animals are treated in this country, but FUCK PETA--they hi-jacked one of our peace demonstrations. If you can't have a little compassion for your own species, you are a hypocrite and no better than Jesus lovers who treat people like crap. It's easy to love cute animals and invisible gods. Try loving your fellow human beings.

That being said, in a free country, all of these people have a right to demonstrate and at least try and ask their 'representatives' to address their grievances.

Oh yes, and FUCK 'Free Speech Zones'. Let's call them what they are. Stalinist mini-gulags. The DNC is going to have to answer for this one.

[Still_Loves_John]

16. That's a really good point

I think that, far too often, legitimate protests are hijacked by the type of people you mentioned. They put a misleading face on protestors as a whole.

Your post actually made me realize that my somewhat negative image of the protestors is partially caused by these protest hijackers.

[PoliticsSportsMusic]

34. Fuck PETA????

Hijacked your protest??? What the hell are you talking about? You're confused....yeah...people that support PETA hate people. I'm extremely unhappy with you....I'll just leave it at that. Don't bother responding I'm putting you on ignore.

[tomorrowsashes]

36. Free Mumia, and PETA

Yeah liberalmuse, I'm soooo tired of all those trying to stop innocent people, and animals from being tortured and put to death. Why do they think that they have the right to inconvenience me just so that some black guy can live, or to try to put a stop to animal cruelty. Why should people be made to know the truth about the torture farms they are supporting everytime they eat a Big Mac? <end sarcasm> As you said, people have every right to protest, and these aren't trivial issues. I support both animal and human rights, but feel that it is worth being a little annoying if it stands any chance of saving any species' lives.

Whether or not you plan to vote for John Kerry in November, it's still important to let him know how much you hate doing so. He supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, NAFTA, the Patriot Act (I don't care if he didn't have time to read it. It's a lawmakers responsibility to know what they're voting on before they vote yes), increasing the millitary, increasing government powers to spy on it's citizens. He needs to be protested.

Here's a poster from the Bl(a)ck Tea Society. Some of it, particularily the sentence about gay mairrage, is a little strongly worded, but it's a good introduction to why people are protesting.

[liberalhistorian]

14. Well I, for one, am sick to death of these

people who don't understand just how critical it is for us ALL to be FULLY UNITED in this election. There is a HUGE difference between Kerry and the Bushistas and repukes, a HUGE difference. These "progressives" who won't support anyone unless they fall totally in line with every single item are just going to drag us all straight down to hell. Does it not occur to them that that is how the reich wing and the repukes have managed to get where they are today, because they were totally united and understood the need to be totally united and how far it would take them?

[liberalmuse]

18. I agree.

Compromise is a very good thing. 'All-or-nothing' will get you...nothing. This election is so crucial, yet it seems to be a game to some. I have no use for the kind of self-righteous, self-centered ideology that causes a person to take a stand, even when it means completely disregarding the other 6 billion people on the planet.

[G_j]

27. two of the key groups listed here are

Veterans for Peace and the Friends Service Committee.
You don't don't think they care about the other 6 billion people on the planet?

[Still_Loves_John]

35. It's not that they don't care

It's that they're not helping anything by protesting. Nothing is being accomplished by doing so except to make the Democrats look bad.

[G_j]

22. you seem to completely miss the point

that many people will be there advocating issues that are important to them. Its called Democracy.

[liberalhistorian]

25. I'm not disputing that

or their right to do so at all. I'm saying that they're missing the point and failing to see the big picture. We will never make any headway with our goals if we're always demanding all-or-nothing. Doing so usually gets you nothing because we just cannot have it all.

[G_j]

33. ok, is there ever a circumstance where rape is acceptable?

Are people who are opposed to rape purists? Some people feel the same way about war. As long as there is war there will be folks dedicating their lives to stopping it. I would say that is just a fact of life. You might save yourself some agitation by just accepting it.

[liberalhistorian]

37. I'm gonna have a lot of trouble

"just accepting it" if it brings us four more years of the Bushistas, which we may not even survive as a nation. And what would these people have had us do after Pearl Harbor? All join hands and sing Kumbaya while the Japanese and German military swarmed all over the country, bombing and destroying? Huh-uh, I don't think so. Sometimes force is necessary, however horrible that may be.

[G_j]

39. I just don't see it the same way I guess

Bush has already cooked his own goose.
I really don't think it is going to hurt the Democrats at all to have the presence of peace organizations in Boston.
I think you are worrying needlessly. just my opinion..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. You're comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor?

Do you really envision Iraqis swarming over the country "bombing and destroying"?

Your history is a little weak.

[Cat Atomic]

24. That's the sad thing. They're only saying, "I hate you".

No specific reason. Republicans have control of all 3 branches of government and the media. There's really nothing for them to protest.

Conservative protestors are only throwing things at images of Goldstein, if you know what I mean. They're just publicly proclaiming their hatred of the liberal bogeyman.

I'm talking about conservatives here- so I think I missed your point. Liberal protestors at the Dem convention have legitimate beefs, IMHO. The party is way too DLC these days.

[cosmicvortex20]

28. I personally dont see a point...

Whats the use in going to some place and screaming and bantering signs about? Especially in a "specifically designated zone". Exactly what is this supposed to accomplish again? The powers that be are supposed to see this and realize the error of their ways and repent? Not bloodly likely. Protest marches seem to me to be more fashion and social clubs instead of useful political tools. Im sure someone will disagree, but thats just my two cents.

[Old and In the Way]

40. It reinforces the "no difference" meme.

The undecideds might well assume that there's no difference between the Republicans and Democrats....conveniently forgeting that Republicans have held the majority in both Houses of Congress since 1994. Guilt by association. Republicans and Democrats are both Senators and Representitives..so therefore they believe the same things.

It would be nice if people would watch CSPAN and see what Party is sticking up for our rights.

These protests serve to confuse and blur distinctions....not particularly helpful in getting Kerry elected and Bush out of the WH. I know protests are a vaunted aspect of conventions....it's just too bad that the protests can't be directed against those that clearly deserve them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. They're protesting the Democratic Party's lack of addressing the issues.

Kerry still supports the occupation of Iraq. He supports Ariel Sharon's apartheid wall. He's calling for MORE troops in Iraq. He wants to beef-up the "Intelligence Community" (the same guys who told us that Iraq was a threat), he still supports the embargo on Cuba, he still supports "globalization" (otherwise known as imperialism).

They are protesting the pablum presented as policy by the Democratic Party.