Obama transcript

[sandnsea]

You know, the reaction to this transcript is the EXACT reason Dean lost. Complete overreaction and total lack of understanding of where the American people stand, as a whole, on Iraq and national security. Here's the dastardly thing Obama said. How horrible, Bush is sincere about wanting to maintain a strong America. What should he say? Bush wants to see the country destroyed? How fucking ignorant would that be?

"What I think is that it was an ideologically driven war. I think that George Bush was sincere and is sincere about his desire to maintain a strong America, but I think there was a single-mindedness to this process that has led our country into a very difficult position. It's a consequence of that single-mindedness that we did not create the kind of international framework that would have allowed success once we decided to go in."

People are not going to vote on the war vote. They are going to vote on what we're going to do from here on out. Even if the entire country decides Bush made a mistake going into Iraq, if they don't think Kerry can do any better executing the war or keeping the country safe, they aren't going to vote for him. It's time for people to understand that any REAL Presidential candidate MUST have a plan to keep the country secure. That IS a President's first obligation.

People are ready to toss Bush, but if Kerry doesn't gain their trust, they won't vote for him. That's what this convention is about, convincing America that John Kerry can do the job of keeping America secure, gaining the trust of America, moving this country forward.

On edit:

Transcript link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5488345/

[LiviaOlivia]

1. Thank you sandnsea

eom

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I see nothing wrong with Obama's remarks

he said Bush was sincere. I think Bush was sincere. He's a madman with messianic delusions, and he's quite sincere about them. Sincerity in and of itself is not always a positive thing.

[NC_Nurse]

3. We can't have objective, rational commentary

in this election! ;)

How is anyone supposed to reach out to undecided voters if they just spew partisan candidate-bashing? Geez, let's keep our eye on the ball people!

[King of New Orleans]

4. Never let reality get in the way

of crazed, half-cocked ranting.

Yeeearrrgggghhhhhhhh. Obama is a TRAITOR!!!!! Yeaaarrrrrgghhhhhhh.

[Terry_M]

5. What are the odds of criminal prosecution of Bush & Friends

with democrats saying he was sincere?

[mellowinman]

9. Criminal prosecution of Bush?

What good would THAT do?

1. He would find a way to circumvent it.

2. More wasting of time by our government on something that will never be resolved.

3. More dividing America.

You're living in La-La Land if you're dreaming of such a thing.

I'm going to be happy if they can just GET RID OF HIM AS MY COUNTRY'S PRESIDENT.

[Terry_M]

14. And so, nothing changes, business as usual

And we're gonna have another administration full of money stealing liars sometime in the not-too-distant future.

[NC_Nurse]

11. You can be a liar

and believe you are doing the right thing - if you're enough of a lunatic. I think the Neocon agenda is to save America through a secret agenda that we can only guess at because they never come clean about it. Of course, "saving America" means different things to different people and I for one want no part of their vision.

[sandnsea]

13. Nixon

One word. Information was available about the break-ins before the election, he won anyway. Most Americans don't really listen to what they consider Washington politics. The President lied and is a criminal makes most people's eyes roll. John Kerry learned that in 1972. The darling of the anti-war movement.. that had absolutely no bearing to winning an election in Lowell Mass. People want to feel proud of their country, proud of their servicemen, and will ignore a whole lot of shit in order to do that. We're still fighting over the honor of the Vietnam Vet, 30 years later. John Kerry wants to win, knows he has to win for the sake of the future of this country and the world. He knows what "the greater good" means and right now, the "greater good" means running this campaign in a way that will get the most votes.

[Still_Loves_John]

6. Thank you

He really didn't say anything wrong. I think the problem is that the first about this just paraphrased, and made the comments sound much worse than they are. I mean, he actually slapped Bush pretty good with that statement.

If you can't bring yourself to vote for a candidate who says that Bush might have good intentions before he goes on to say how bad a President he is, than you need to seriously reevaluate your criteria for choosing candidates. This is so superficial it's disgusting.

[bookman]

7. I watched and was impressed.

I've only read about Obama and saw some quick clips on TV. I was impressed. I think the people of Illinois will have a fine Senator.

[mellowinman]

8. Some people think

the best way to win elections is to sound like a foaming at the mouth insane radical, and that will get the middle to vote for our candidates.

They're wrong, of course.

Obama said he disagrees with Bush's war. He just didn't phrase it with wild enough eyes, apparently.

[iconoclastic cat]

10. Ah, I see. Context.

Thanks, S+S.

[madfloridian]

12. Some of it is over reaction...but he changed positions.

Earlier on he apparently said Bush took us to war for political reasons. It was good he said that, because it was true. He apparently backed off an earlier stance, and I think this is why some folks were upset.

I think we have to tell the truth, whether Obama, Dean,or whoever, and I think we ought not to keep shifting our message. Here is what he said previously, which was quite correct.

SNIP..." MR. RUSSERT: In 2002 in October, you gave a speech at an anti-war rally and said this. "What I am opposed to is the attempt by potential hacks like Karl Rove"--the president's political adviser--"to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."

He was oh so right then. I hear Dean doing a lot of the same thing, it bothers me.

[JPJones]

17. I see very little difference between 2002 and 2004

The only difference is that now he says the war was based on ideology, not politics. It looks like he meant ideology in 2002 anyway.

[JohnKleeb]

18. dont idealogy and politics go hand and hand

[yardwork]

37. I don't see this as a change in position.

We need to guard against taking overly rigid stances and demanding that Democrats always say the party line.

That's freeper thinking. And we see where that gets them.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. I think Hitler was sincere about his desire to maintain a strong Germany.

Of all the virtues, sincerity is the most overrated.

[maggrwaggr]

21. THANK YOU, MINSTREL BOY!!!

Whew! I've been feeling kind of alone here lately.

:yourock:

[Maeve]

61. Sincerity may let you see the Great Pumpkin, but otherwise

Sincerely wrong is still wrong. Dubya is sincerely wrong.

[Bat Boy]

64. Hell yes Hitler was sincere!

He meant every bit of it. Hitler thought he was a terrific guy, and everything he did was good and right and for the betterment of der fatherland.

He was also horrificly misguided. Which, coincidentally, is what Obama said about Bush.

[Rowdyboy]

16. Please stop posting facts and direct quotes....

It temporarily distract people from their fun of tearing down good, electable politicians because they're not perfect in every statement.

Next thing, you'll get all logical and rational and want us to start thinking! <sarcasm>

-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, for being a voice of reason on a day when it seems in very short supply.

[bacchant]

19. And the beat goes on... and on... and on...

I know I'm gonna get my ass kicked for this, but how are our politics ever going to change if we keep telling ourselves "it's necessary to compromise this time because..."? When won't it be necessary? When will a politician be able to stand by what he believes in, unconditionally? I know this sounds naive, but I'm starting to understand that my acceptance of the game, permeates and compromises my own life ethic.

[sandnsea]

20. It's not compromise at all

The intelligence and the words about Saddam and the war are so discombobulated that it would take a legal scholar to sort them out, one by one. It simply can't be done in a Presidential campaign. People have heard what they're able to digest and made up their minds. The ones who know he lied, know he lied. The ones who don't, don't. We do not want war lies and partisanship to be the focus of this election. We'll lose. Incompetence due to isolationist ideology is clear to everyone. We're alone in Iraq. That is a truth too. And it's point blank clear and easy to understand.

[mellowinman]

22. So please write a long, well thought-out thesis

on how to get elected that way.

Remember you need OVER HALF of the people who vote to vote for you.

Good luck on your quest.

I know where you can get plenty of White-out.

[maggrwaggr]

23. exactly. It's called "fortitude".

It's called "bravery". It's called

LEADERSHIP.

Something the Dems haven't had in a long fucking time.

[Blue Wally]

63. Goldwater and McGovern

Are pretty good examples of "speaking your mind".

[maggrwaggr]

24. obviously you don't understand mass-media communication

All I hear from that quote is a bunch of mealy-mouthed have-it-both-ways bullshit where the BASIC MESSAGE IS:

George Bush is sincere.

To quote Donald Rumsfled: That is NOT helpful.

[sandnsea]

26. oh bull

You don't hear a rip-roaring hate fest against George Bush so you're not happy. You're all about me, me, me, please me. You've never bothered to listen to what anybody else says so you have no idea how your Bush hate fest is really playing in America. People are ready to change, they're hungry to move forward, away from this Bush insanity. But they have to know where they're going, they don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. Your hate fest is what is NOT helpful.

[JohnKleeb]

28. someone I believe mentioned that sincerity isnt always good

aint that the truth. Obama said he would have voted against the IWR and that the war was idealogically driven, yes hes the same as Bush, hell thats my position on the war.

[maggrwaggr]

30. So now you're giving me the GOP label of "HATE FEST?"

Puh-leeze.

Where are YOU doing your reading?

I repeat: All anybody is gonna hear from Obama's statement is this: Bush is sincere.

He sounds mealy-mouthed and worse, sounds two-faced.

"he was wrong, but well intentioned. Our party wouldn't be AS wrong even though we might actually do the same thing, we'd just do it for different reasons and with different people. So we're better."

Doesn't anybody in the Dem party understand sound bytes?

[sandnsea]

36. Sounds like what you want

Yes, I did that on purpose. People on this board who hate Kerry are either bitching because he doesn't bash Bush enough or bitching because he doesn't offer anything but ABB. It's insane. We either win this election or we're fucked. Bush bashing isn't going to be enough. It's time to offer a vision of a strong America, it's time to move forward. Nixon's garbage was exposed after the 1972 election and if we get a Democratic House & Senate, we can do the same with Bush. THAT is what we need to be focused on, not 3 words in an entire election.

[Liberal Veteran]

44. No. Regale us with your infinite wisdom and omniscience.

:eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. If Obama would have said "Bush is a LIAR"

the media would have spent ALL of their time talking about THAT instead of talking about our DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION. Would THAT make you happy? Would it please you that the people who tune in to see the speeches to learn about our candidates, our party, instead got a steady earful of "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" "Barak Obama called Bush A Liar!" Sheesh. That is just ridiculous. You know what the media is like. They WANTED Obama to say that Bush lied. He didn't fall for it.

[maggrwaggr]

53. you keep suggesting the RW media should be allowed to call the shots

for some silly reason I disagree with this notion.

Call me insane, but ..... I'm just sayin'

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. What? Should be allowed? They ARE allowed to call the shots.

What the hell have "I" been watching for the last 3 3/4 years? Oh, that's right...The LIBERAL media, I forgot.

[Doomsayer13]

29. God, can we not see the forest for the trees here?

if not, I have nothing more to say

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. At least he said that he would've voted against the IWR.

Which is a helluva lot more than Kerry and Edwards did or will, at least, publicly recant.

[sandnsea]

27. You'd think that would matter

But nooooo, if it isn't the perfect leftist message, throw the whole thing out. So stupid.

[Liberal Veteran]

32. I suspect some of the louder naysayers are agents provocateur.

Who are just here to sow discord amongst us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Really? Is that an accusation?

If so, at least have the courage to accuse me of such.

[Doomsayer13]

34. I think he's talking about those going apeshit on Obama

nt

[Liberal Veteran]

40. Given that this is the first post I have read from you, probably not.

However, it is safe to say I have become less an less trusting of people's motives of late (the daily Kerry bashers, the nitpickers, the people who want everything now, the people who appear to think we should all be to the left of Mao).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. So, dissent is suspicious?

We are all supposed to accept without question whatever Kerry says or does?

I'm not a Kerry fan. I won't be voting for him - I'm voting for Cobb.
I've been a Democrat since 1965 and with one exception (1968) I've always voted for the presidential nominee, even if it took some strenuous noseholding. I'll be voting Democrat for both my senator (Murray) and rep (Baird) without having to pinch my nostrils.

I don't believe it to be "nitpicking" to point out that Kerry still supports the occupation of Iraq and supported Bush's invasion. That he recently said that he supported the apartheid wall in Israel/Palestine.

I hope that Kerry wins. But, I refuse to keep silent when the representative of my party continues to support positions that I find repugnant.

[Liberal Veteran]

49. Consistent dissent is suspicious.

There are some people who would not be pleased unless they had their hand up Kerry's ass and made him do and say everything they wanted like he was some sock puppet.

ANYONE who expects a candidate to be perfectly in line with their belief system is in for a rude awakening in the world of politics.

Politics is a game of compromise.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Great. When does he start compromising with the left?

He's doing a swell job of compromising with the right. I don't expect my candidates to be "exactly in line" with my belief system. What I do expect is that he/she share some of the basic ideals I believe in. Such as, going to war against a 3rd world nation for political gain is wrong. Such as, occupying that nation against the will of the people in it is wrong.

I guess I fit into that catagory of "consistant dissent" because I've consistantly opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

[Liberal Veteran]

55. Having one of the most liberal voting records is irrelevant?

Don't be so focused on a single issue that you miss the big picture.

Perhaps you want Kerry to promise to build a time machine and undo the invasion of Iraq.

And pretending you are the only person here that is against the invasion is laughably ludicrous. 99 percent of us here did, but we are mature enough to know that you can't undo what occurred last year.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Maturity.

I'm so glad that you are "mature enough" to consign the deaths of thousands to a mere "single issue" like a highway bill. Regrettable, but just a bit of political realism. Sort of like collateral damage? All for the greater good? It can't be "undone" so we should just forget about it. Does that also go for the deaths happening now because of the continuing occupation that Kerry supports? Just keep forgetting about them as they occur?

If I ever do get "mature enough" to write off thousands of dead as you more mature folks do, I'll rethink my adolescent opinions of My-Lai and the bombing of Cambodia. Alas, I don't foresee me living that long.

[bacchant]

42. Man that's disappointing

It's way too easy to call anyone with an opposing point of view, a troll. People quickly forget that like our party, this board is not monolithic.

[Liberal Veteran]

46. No it's not, but some people are consistently divisive.

It's a fact. I wouldn't put it past our "distinguished competition" to resort to psyops.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal Veteran]

Yet another person I was not directly addressing takes personal offense.

Fascinating.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Those noisy, troublemaking, leftists are at it agains.

Pointing out the facts just doesn't fit into your warm fuzzy picture of a nice, sweet, Democratic Convention. So..predictable, so...tepid.

[sandnsea]

38. ha

Lefists. No plans. No responsibility. It's easy to be a 15 year old who hates mommy and daddy when you aren't responsible for the food, house, clothes, water, health care, education, etc. That's just the way I see it.

[madfloridian]

41. Now THAT sounds like it is straight from the RNC talking points.

Your quote:"Lefists. No plans. No responsibility. It's easy to be a 15 year old who hates mommy and daddy when you aren't responsible for the food, house, clothes, water, health care, education, etc. That's just the way I see it."

This is truly getting bad now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. It's easy to be silent and blind rather than take a stand.

Tell me about Kerry's "plan" to exit Iraq. Tell me how much "responsibility" he's taking for endorsing the invasion. Tell me how much "responsibility" he's taking for the thousands of deaths there. Tell me how much responsibility he's taking for NAFTA.

All I've heard from him are excuses and shifts of responsibility. I never knew that Kerry hated his mommy and daddy and he looks older than 15.

[sandnsea]

47. What's the leftist plan?

What's the Green Party plan, Nader's plan? Security, democracy, and reconstruction. Oh it sounds so joyful. But there's no plan whatsoever to get there. Kerry is honest about what it will take to accomplish what Nader and the Green Party say need to be accomplished. But sticking your head in the sand about those hard cold facts suits the left better. Grandiose self-righteousness is more fun.

NAFTA? Same thing. What was Nader or the Green Party's plan for the billions of people living literally in huts around the world. They're happy that way so leave them alone? Then when they turn around and attack the US because of their poverty, that's the fault of the US too. Global trade was not supposed to end with opening up trade. Environmental, human rights and labor rights initiatives were supposed to follow. As was investment in new technologies here at home. That's a plan. That's taking responsibility.

What's the leftist plan?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. A plan.

As if there is a workable "plan". To do what? Get out of Iraq by putting in more troops? Trying to get the UN and NATO to embrace the tarbaby? Which they refuse to do as long as the Americans control the military. That's Kerry's "plan".

You are incredibly naive if you think that "globalization" was geared to provide a way out of the huts. Instead, it has consigned many of the the 3rd world to the huts. That all of goodies "were supposed to follow" is somewhat like saying that heaven awaits us if we only believe.

The "leftist" plan, if such a thing exists, would be redistribution of wealth. Socialism in a word. I know, I know, "it doesn't work". So, Capitalism does?

There is no "plan". Kerry doesn't have a "plan", he, like most politicians have talking points designed to garner votes.

Is he "better than Bush"? A mentally challenged carrot is better than Bush. If Kerry can't take the heat from the left for his missteps and tepid performance, he'd start digging a very deep foxhole when the "compassionate conservatives" really start going after him.

[sandnsea]

52. No plan, just "anti"

Like I said. Don't talk to me about responsibility when you have no plan to have to take responsiblity for.

[madfloridian]

59. This is my party. I am not a Naderite.

I am trying to get my party to speak up. You give the leftist insult thing almost verbatim from the Heritage group. They think people who are not wealthy, deserve it. And they think people who are unlucky are bad.

I am shocked at the remarks here today.

[w13rd0]

31. I've been paying attention to Obama for a while now...

...and I see nothing wrong with these remarks. I believe Bush is "sincere" in wanting a strong America, as he defines it. A strong America by his definition is one awash in oil, in debt to Saudi Arabia, and owned and exploited by his friends and family. Bush most certainly wants to protect that America.

The hyperventilation I've seen this afternoon is, well, laughable and sad.

[yardwork]

35. This is a perfectly reasonable comment by Obama.

In fact, I'm impressed.

This is exactly what my husband, a life-long Democrat, believes about Bush.

Hubby and I disagree about the shrub. I think that * is a money-grubbing criminal who pretends to have an ideological belief. Hubby thinks that Bush is actually sincere, but misguided, in his beliefs.

We both think he's a terrible president. We're both doing all we can to get Kerry elected.

What's the problem?

[goclark]

39. Obama is not talking to the base -that's fine with me.

Read between the lines.
All he really said was that Bush was sincere. Translation--- he didn't do it because he thought it wouldn't work. Bush did it because he thought his war would work - he was "sincere" in that belief.

Why should he bash Bush when he needs cross over votes to be the first Black Senator in a long time and possibly the first Black President?

As much as I would have wanted him to say that Bush is a Crook, that won't get him elected.

Republicans know how to keep the prize in mind. They will say anything to get elected. I'm from California,remember all the lies that Arnold told. The Rethugs took it to get him in office as a Republican. They would make him President tomorrow if they could do it.

Keep our eye on the prize.

[maggrwaggr]

56. Yeah? Well all they heard was "George Bush is sincere"

Tell me how that helps anyone's cause, especially Obama's?

[troublemaker]

57. that's not too difficult...

If a swing voter really wanted to hear someone say "Bush is a liar" then she wouldn't be a swing voter, would she?

[clark_maxwell]

65. You keep saying...

all they heard was "George Bush is sincere."

Maybe that is all you heard.

[0007]

58. Thanks sandnsea for three things

1. For making this post
2. Taking the fight to the ignorant
3. And the Transcript Link

[mtnester]

62. We have got to stop

all this "play nice" and "pc" crap.

Look, if your neighbor came up to you and told you a lie in order to get all the neighbors on the street to harass or sue another neighbor, and that caused that neighbor and his family to have to move or lose their home, and you then found out it was a LIE, you would call that idiot on it at the fence, and you would not be "pc" about it.

Why we don't do this with our resident in office or any other elected official is beyond me. We are their EMPLOYERS dammit! And that includes elected officials who won't do it for us as they are supposed to. Fire them all. All this "pussy footing" around gives me a damn headache.

[depakid]

67. I see 1988 all over again

Failing to hold Bush and the Republicans accountable for their actions simply legitimizes them- it doesn't sound "reasonable." It sounds weak. Actually, what it sounds like is waffling.