Dean: "we are all centrists now." Redefining the terms.

[madfloridian]

He is redefining the terms.... student of Lakoff. I like this.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/27/dems.dean /

SNIP..."But Dean said he didn't think liberalism is dead. "I think that I represented the centrist wing of the party when I ran -- balanced budgets, death penalty support in some instances, eight consecutive A's from the National Rifle Association," he said.

"I think the biggest problem with the Democrats is they didn't realize how far to the right the country really went. So, I think we're all centrists. We believe in balanced budgets; the president believes in huge debts."

He goes on to call for accountability for not standing up to Bush:

SNIP...""We as Democrats did not to stand up to this right-wing administration when we should have stood up to them -- which was the day after inauguration," the one-time candidate said in remarks reminiscent of his campaign."



www.blogforamerica.com

[ashling]

1. I am proud of Howard

I am proud to have been behind him all the way

[wryter2000]

6. He's the best

Can't wait to hear him tonight.

[tridim]

2. Maybe we need to extend the Dem convention until November

I'm loving this. All the Dems are being bold and speaking their minds this week. Let's hope that it lasts.

[kaitykaity]

3. He still gets to me.

I love that line about the 2000 election. Very nice.

:thumbsup:

[Solly Mack]

4. I realise how far to the right America has gone

and I am not a centrist. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

but the point is taken..and I do think he's right about people not understanding just how far to the right America has traveled..

[ulysses]

5. yup.

I stayed in the same place and went from being a liberal to being a fringe leftist. It's still about the language.

[madfloridian]

7. When I came to DU mid 2002, I was considered way too moderate.

Now I am considered a left wing fringe type nut.

[ulysses]

9. LOL

the more things change. Me, I started among those considered nutty and haven't gotten any less so. :D

[Cheswick2.0]

11. I find myself hanging onto the left side of the platform...

with bloody fingernails. I am dropping over the side but I am determined to stick and refuse to conceed my party to the dark side.

[ulysses]

15. heh

So you're becoming familiar with the phenomena that ended up with some of us voting for The Evil One in the past. :)

[unfrigginreal]

17. I plead guilty

:)

[TeacherCreature]

42. the problem is

I think they party has shifted farther right from where we were in 2000.

[janx]

14. I wasn't even a Democrat when I first showed up here!

But since I supported Dean, I got the same label. It's very true: this country moved so far to the right that it has been frightening.

[Solly Mack]

24. precisely! what was liberal when I was 20 is now fringe leftist at 40

and I wasn't the one who changed....the language did. And way too many people bought into the new language of distortion

[ulysses]

27. that would've been less of a problem

if the party leadership hadn't been among those who bought into the new language. So it goes, though. The fight expanded long ago.

[Solly Mack]

28. Sometimes I listen to younger "liberals" and wonder if they

even know the terms have been redefined. That what they see now as liberal is not what it was.. that for them, what they see now is the "way it's always been"

I feel out of place because the liberalism I was steeped in as a child is not what passes for liberalism today.

You're right...had leadership not caved..and caved they did..they wouldn't be defending the word liberal today. They wouldn't need to..they'd own the word and everything it represents.

I'm a liberal. There is no need for commentary.

[Lorien]

40. Heck, what was MODERATE 20 years ago

is fringe leftist now! Dems need to learn how to use language to create the memes instead of just reacting to them.

[Solly Mack]

45. that's true. ...even the moderates have become fringe under the revised

definitions...all indicative of a strong swing to the right...one that seems to have been undetected by some. But I felt the swoosh!

[madfloridian]

46. Listen to this interview on PBS tonight with Dean, Lehrer, Brooks.

They address the issue of how the word liberal has been distorted by the media. Dean says he does not care what he is called because he knows what he believes.

It is really in-depth, courteous, and some intelligent debate.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/dean_7-28.html

[Wonk]

8. re: George Lakoff, here's his excellent interview from NOW this week

for those who missed it.

4 M mp3

41 M vp3 video

[ClassWarrior]

25. EVERYONE HERE, take 15 minutes to watch or listen to this!!!

Thanks for converting and posting this, Wonk.

[madfloridian]

31. Thanks, Wonk, I had misplaced those.

There are articles at PBS I need to look up.

[Cha]

10. This is what I believe and I'm glad Dean said it..

"We as Democrats did not to stand up to this right-wing administration when we should have stood up to them -- which was the day after inauguration," the one-time candidate said in remarks reminiscent of his campaign."

[janx]

12. This is very true. I remember the protests at that dark and

rainy inauguration. Then after that, things just settled and stopped until he pulled the Iraq War stunt. Then more protests, but I didn't get the idea that any Dems were officially behind those.

It was a helpless feeling, wasn't it Zidz?

[madfloridian]

30. I felt helpless that inaugural day.

The steamroller hit here in Florida, and it was devastating.

[tom_paine]

13. Howard ROCKS!

Period. Unequivocally.

[Anwen]

16. Yeah he does!!

I am leaving work a few minutes early so I can listen to him speak tonight.

[NoPasaran]

18. Go over to the Blog and send Howard a message of thanks tonight

Oh, err, there's a bat up.

[Pastiche423]

19. Can anyone please tell me what time (PDT)

Dean will be speaking. Will it only be on C-Span?

I need a shot of Dean to lift me out of depression!

[BurtWorm]

20. I think it's 9:00 EDT--so 6:00 your time.

:hi:

[Pastiche423]

23. Thanks, Burt!

Damn, it is only on C-Span



Is anyone taping it?

[mzmolly]

21. I love this .... vintage Dean.

"He added, "We're all together because we believe that George Bush is serving America very badly with weak leadership, weak national defense, weak on financial matters -- half-trillion dollar deficits, loss of jobs. This president has been a disaster for America."

Bush is WEAK on National Defense, and WEAK on fiscal matters!

Say it loud, say it often because it's true!

Does anyone else tell it like this man!?

:toast:

[ClassWarrior]

22. kicking for Lakoff

:kick:

[Darth_Kitten]

26. What a wonderful man......

I just love Dean!!! Go git em!! :thumbsup: :loveya: :D

[Minstrel Boy]

29. The thing I've loved about this guy from the start is he knows

the Bush regime is radical, and he hasn't shied from calling it such. This set him apart during the primary season, and regrettably it still does.

[madfloridian]

32. He just had conference call with supporters.

Just after his speech. Several good points:

Said Jesse Jackson and he were working on a trip to the Appalachians to campaign, schedule very tight.

He will be in Ohio, and he mentioned several other states. He is also planning on some visits to MS and other Southern state.

They requested he come to our I-4 Corridor area between Tampa and Orlando....said he is planning on FL to campaign for candidates, not sure which area.

A GA group called in. Dean mentioned that 4 of 5 of the GA Dean Dozen won their primaries. That is a great track record.

[madfloridian]

33. Lakoff: "Don't think of an elephant" Framing.

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/8/lakoff-g.html

These are a fascinating two paragraphs from Lakoff.

When I teach framing in Cognitive Science 101, I start with an exercise. I give my students a directive: "Don't think of an elephant." It can't be done, of course, and that's the point. In order not to think of an elephant, you have to think of an elephant. The word elephant evokes an image and a frame. If you negate the frame, you still activate the frame. Richard Nixon never took Cognitive Science 101. When he said, "I am not a crook," he made everybody think of him as a crook.

If you have been framed, the only response is to reframe. But you can't do it in a sound bite unless an appropriate progressive language has been built up in advance. Conservatives have worked for decades and spent billions on their think tanks to establish their frames, create the right language, and get the language and the frames they evoke accepted. It has taken them awhile to establish the metaphors of taxation as a burden, an affliction and an unfair punishment -- all of which require "relief." They have also, over decades, built up the frame in which the wealthy create jobs, and giving them more wealth creates more jobs...."

I sort of look at it this way. Dean was framed as a liberal because of his anti-war stance. If there had been time, he could have "reframed." He was framed as "angry", and it will take time to "reframe." He is an avid reader of Lakoff, and he knows what happened. There is time to reframe for the future.

[lostnfound]

38. EXCELLENT article, explains a lot...Please read!

A great explanation of the values at the core of the differing worldviews.

Ding!ding!ding! I can think of some on the right that are so overwhelmed and frightened by the world that they are looking for the strict-father-government model to keep them in line and keep their world 'in order'.

[madfloridian]

43. Also the Nurturant Parent Family.

They have also defined this issue.

"The Nurturant Parent Family
It is assumed that the world should be a nurturant place. The job of parents is to nurture their children and raise their children to be nurturers. To be a nurturer you have to be empathetic and responsible (for yourself and others)."

They have twisted this as well.

[Lorien]

41. We should reclaim and reframe the term "Liberal"

not run away from a label we should, by all rights, be very proud of! DON'T LET THE RW SPIN STAND!

[madfloridian]

44. Jen6, he discussed that on the Newshour interview tonight.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/dean_7-28.html

Discussed the word liberal, how he had thought about trying to take it back though it was damaged.

[Radical Activist]

34. "I'm from the democratic wing of the Democratic Party"

Is this the same guy? How many times did Dean use that Wellstone line, which always meant that he was liberal when Wellstone used it.

I always felt that Dean would have rushed to the center if he had gained the nomination and this pretty well confirms that.

[madfloridian]

35. He never left the center.

That is why I posted this. The party moved right. Read my post and think about what I am saying. Think about what Dean is saying, and PLEASE quit thinking of Dean and his supporters in terms of black and white. We don't fit there. You simply can not define us.

[69KV]

36. He's correct

From 1932 to about 1980 liberalism was the center, and by that I mean the fighting liberalism of FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ, HHH, and even Carter. Except for a few John Bircher and Joe McCarthyite nuts on the lunatic fringe, liberalism was the national consensus.

The repukes moved things so far to the right since then that they made liberal a bad word and forced the center to be redefined.

The Repukes are now the radical right. They are waaaaay to the right of even Barry "in your guts you know he's nuts" Goldwater. We ARE the mainstream.

[madfloridian]

37. He said it well, too.

I am still in the same place, but I have been redefined.
:hi:

[sangh0]

39. IMO, the nations has NOT moved to the right

If it really had moved to the right, the Repukes wouldn't be having trouble amending the Constitution to ban gay marriages.