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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 11:41 AM
Original message
Medea Benjamin (Code Pink) unfurls banner, ejected by police
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 11:50 AM by G_j
reported on Democracy Now. Banner read: "End The Occupation"

edit, link:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/1327236

Medea Benjamin Dragged Off DNC Floor in Handcuffs For Unfurling "End the Occupation of Iraq" Banner

As Teresa Heinz Kerry gave her prime-time address that never mentioned Iraq, Code Pink founder Medea Benjamin attemped to bring an anti-war message onto the floor of the convention. Moments later police were dragging her out of the Fleet Center.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Teresa Heinz Kerry spoke last night, on the floor of the convention, Medea Benjamin from Global Exchange and CodePink unfurled a pink colored banner that read "End the Occupation of Iraq." That apparently was not one of the DNC-approved messages of the night because within moments of the banner being unfurled, police were called in to remove Medea Benjamin.
Benjamin was dragged off the convention floor and thrown out of the FleetCenter. She said that the DNC was asked whether they wanted her arrested and that they decided that would not look good.



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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Where did she do this?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. oops...sorry.. At the Convention n/t
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EastofEdon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Democracy is messy
& this is what Democracy looks like
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Zidane Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Yea I bet it is
Did she get put in the democracy cage outside?
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EastofEdon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. you can't build cages
and NOT expect someone to bring a banner inside. In Chicago '68 a few at least criticised the oppression outside.
Nobody has said a thing about the cage! I think it is a shame.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Yeah, because that's exactly what we want...a repeat of Chicago '68
:eyes:

Please people...focus! We've got an election to win here!
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EastofEdon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. maybe you could focus on what I actually said
which was that it would be nice to hear somebody say something about the "protest pen".
You act like I was calling for a riot or something.
:argh:
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. That's what the DNC seems to be aiming for
They're acting just like the DNC did back then: suppressing dissent.
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EastofEdon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. although I don't think the cage was the DNC's doing
or that they could even have it taken down, they could at least go on record as opposing it.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. If she's unhappy about the occupation...
then shouldn't she take that up with Bush? After all, he started it and he could end it with the stroke of a pen.

Why do the überlefties always heap all their anger and scorn on the Democrats while letting the Republicans, who are generally responsible for the things that piss them off so much, get off scott free?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. She has done so
You may have seen her in the hearing room behind Donald Rumsfeld when he was lying his ass off to Congress.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Those of us who oppose the war are now "uberlefties?" I am moderate.
Most of us heap scorn on the GOP for this, but our party has had a role in this war as well. This invasion and occupation.

I do not like being called an uberlefty. I was a moderate last year, and I have not changed. What has happened, do you think?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Who said anything about you?
I believe we were discussing Medea Benjamin here, not you.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You should have made it clear. I am one of few here now who oppose.
Many say don't worry about it now.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I should make it more clear, in a thread about Medea Benjamin,
that I am talking about Medea Benjamin, rather than one of the more than 43,000 members of DU who might show up at any moment?

Sure, whatever.

And I hardly think that most people here now think the war is no big deal. I can't recall anyone here defending the war.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I bet she spends at least 85-90% of her time scorning Bush/Cheney
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 12:20 PM by lostnfound
She was here in Houston unfurling banners against Halliburton.

The Dems do deserve some blame too, for going along with the IWR, for not having stopped the election theft, etc.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. "Give Bush the Pink Slip"
banners unfurled across America thanks to Code Pink.

She has done more towards ending the war than most of the Dems who have spoken at the podium put together.

I would have preferred she did this during Daschel's speech though.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Medea has been taking it up with Bush forever....proudly.
She has more courage than anyone I know.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought I heard someone yell during her speech
This must have been what it was. I'm not sure what to make of what Medea did. I support the sentiment and have applauded her disruption of GOP testimony/events. The conventions are so carefully scripted anymore, and the Dems are apparently not allowing the peace perspective a voice, from what I understand, that I can understand where she's coming from.

I'm still not sure, though, how much I support her action here. :shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The video shows her being take out by police. Dragged.
.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Hmm. The more I ponder this the more I support what she did
and am pissed at the spectacle of Heinz extolling dissent while it's being crushed on the floor.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. I support her action 100%
We are the Democratic party, not the monolithic party.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
26.  it is healthy ! n/t
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. wasn't Teresa praising those who dare to dissent, and particularly
I think she was praising those who dare to dissent in the mdist of dangers. How ironic that Medea Benjamin would be walked out of the Convention hall.}(
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. not sure how ironic it is
it's exactly what I would expect to happen.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
94. Did Theresa walk her out?
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #94
118. No. According to the report she was "ejected" by the police.
;-)
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. the DNC is wrong for dragging her out

she had the right to hold her sign. makes us look like the bushgang.

cripe, if you can't protest the war at the dem conv. where can you?

bring the troops home now!
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well, while I understand her sentiment,
she was expressing it in the wrong place. All the folks at the convention, put together, could not end the occupation. There ARE people who could, though.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The convention is not the place for dissent?
Just wondering.
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I think she should have the right to
hold up whatever banner she pleases. Why is she not allowed to express her views?

The majority of the delegates are AGAINST The war. The platform position does not reflect the people. This is a big mistake--in my opinion.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I agree.
Too much caution. This war is devastating our country.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. yep, what would a Dem convention be without
a bit of non-conformity and dissent? Should be seen as a tradition IMO.
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StandUpGuy Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Its a big trade off.....
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 12:32 PM by StandUpGuy
They have made a deal for prime time network coverage .....

No Anti War Protesters unless they are in cages.

The Whore media has a stake in squashing dissent as does this administration.


Sad but I think more true than we are prepared to accept.


Shame on the Pro War Dem's.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I thought it was also ironic that Fannie Lou Hamer was rightly
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 12:38 PM by deutsey
being praised last night, but, if you know history, Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party were basically shut out of the '64 convention.

See: http://www.watson.org/~lisa/blackhistory/civilrights-55-65/missippi.html

"...the MFDP held a convention and selected a 68-person delegation, which included four whites, to go to the national convention. By now, the party had the support of ADA, delegates from nine states, and 25 congressmen. The delegates wanted to be seated instead of the regular delegates at the convention. To do so, they had to persuade eleven of the more than 100 members of the Credentials Committee to vote in their favor. They decided to provide testimony detailing how difficult it was for blacks to vote in Mississippi. Fannie Lou Hamer, one of twenty children of Mississippi sharecroppers, gave an impassioned speech to the Committee:

"If the Freedom Democratic Party is not seated now, I question America. Is this America? The land of the free and the home of the brave? Where we have to sleep with our telephones off the hook, because our lives be threatened daily? <50>

"President Johnson quickly called a press conference to turn news cameras away from Atlantic City, but the evening news that night showed portions of Hamer's testimony. Her emotional statement moved people around the nation.

"Senator Hubert Humphrey offered a compromise, with the blessing of the president. The white delegates would be seated if they pledged loyalty to the party platform. Two MFDP delegates, Aaron Henry and Ed King would also be seated, but as at-large delegates, not Mississippi delegates. Neither side liked the agreement, but in the end, both sides accepted. The trouble, however, was not over. When all but three of the Mississippi delegates refused to pledge allegiance to the party, the MFDP delegates borrowed passes from sympathetic delegates and took the seats vacated by the Mississippi delegates until they were thrown out. The next day, they returned. The empty seats had been removed, so the delegates just stood and sang freedom songs."

Maybe 40 years from now Medea will get a similar tribute at the Dem Convention?

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. No, I didn't mean that -
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 12:58 PM by FlaGranny
I mean that she was dissenting to the wrong people. No one there could do a thing about it and I'll bet more than 90% of the people there agreed with her. I also believe it was rude to interrupt a speech of Ms. Kerry. She could have done it between speeches, if she had to, but she's still preaching to the choir. She's also preaching a message that may cause many voters to reject Democrats as being weak - as untrue as that may be. But no, I never said she shouldn't protest - just that I felt it was a futile gesture at the wrong place and wrong time.

P.S. A lot of folks on this board just seem to be waiting to pounce on everything a person says and to take it the WRONG WAY. Do people go to a PETA convention and protest mistreatment of animals to the PETA people? PETA is not the one mistreating the animals.

P.S.S. Saying you feel something is not justified DOES NOT imply that you are against the person's right to do it. Chill out, people.

This board is getting full of hypersensitive reactions.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. She didn't "interrupt" Teresa's speech
Now, if a bunch of bystanders had tried to grab the banner from the police and hoist it and gotten in a fistfight with the cops, THAT would have been an interruption.

There's a good reason I'll never be delegate to a convention!
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Someone above said that
they heard a shout during Ms. Kerry's speech, so I mistakenly thought that's when it happened.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. The shout was in reaction to the arrest. The banner was silent.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. If that's true, I'm definitely 100% on Medea's side on this.
I guess maybe the Kucinich delegates from yesterday who complained that "enforcers" had confiscated their peace placards and pink scarves were right after all.

:mad:
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
101. I'm on her side too -
contrary to the above reactions to my post. Just because I believe she was wasting her time, the short-fused think I'm against free speech. Geez.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
120. Final word on the pink scarves--
--from the Kucinich webpage.

Apparently the 'clothing' vs. 'banner' dispute has been settled in favor of 'clothing.'

http://kucinich.us/insideout/072804/pink.php

The hot fashion trend among Democratic National Convention delegates this year is pink, in the form of pink scarves. Not only are delegates of all stripes making a fashion statement with the scarves, they're making a political statement as well.

The scarves read "Give BUSH a pink slip!" and identify the wearer as a "DELEGATE FOR PEACE." They also say " Boston — 2004" and thus serve as a souvenir of the convention.

Calls were made to the silk screener and back through the wholesaler to the distributor, who tracked down the manufacturer. To everyone's relief, the scarves were determined to have been manufactured in a legitimate and inspected factory.

"We're still a little concerned that the supplier didn't understand the importance of sourcing their material," Bright said, "It was our mistake that we didn't make ourselves clear that source of supply was an important issue. We'll be more diligent next time?and we'll get them treated for flame retardancy."

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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. it's part of making Kerry "look" like a leader
it's all about image, not substance.

It's a load of crap, and I think the more we take this the more we will deserve the weak president the DNC is making of Kerry. I know that getting rid of Bush is important, but if we don't impress the voters more with being real (like allowed anti-war banner) the more we risk not regaining Congress.

The average voter (most of my friends) are voting for Kerry, but will still not completely commit to voting more Democratics in Congress. And I blame the DNC on being wishy-washy.

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Zidane Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Oh christ
I wonder what you would be saying if the GOP brownshirts dragged us off when they decide we express ourselves "in the wrong place" (like oh gee, I don't know, a political get together)

If they ever come for you please remind me to justify it as you did.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. That's an intelligent reaction
there!! Nice!
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Zidane Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Yes, it is
I don't have any sympathy for those who support fascist tactics and are burned by them later. Just like I won't have any sympathy for those who vote for bush and are drafted/disappeared/arrested afterwards.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
102. You do not seem to be reading very well.
I am not against free speech. She had every right to do what she did. BUT SHE IS WASTING HER TIME protesting to people who agree with her. What's so hard to understand? I'm not allowed the free speech to disagree with her tactics? Just who is against free speech here?

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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. She wasn't protesting, she was stating her opinion
and hoping it got on TV.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. So if Steve Forbes shows up at the Green convention with an
"End the Death Tax Now!" banner, would it be improper for them to make him leave? After all, he's only stating his opinion and hoping that the five or six insomniacs watching the convention on CSPAN will see it.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. One man at the convention can end the occupation.
His name is John Kerry. But he can't do it for another six months.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. yeah,
The bland, homogenized, carefully scripted, and complete with free speech zone Democratic Convention is no place for dissent! We aren't like that other party, where Busholini speaks before handpicked audiences, and the questions are all vetted before the press conference, and there's a free speech zone....:eyes:
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Oh I met her in SF...shes a tiny woman
good for her!!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. OT- speaking of Democracy Now, ya gotta listen to M Moore, this ROCKS!
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. If I were her, I'd be grateful
Teresa's speech was SO boring, and like you point out it really didn't touch on many key issues, like Iraq. Maybe it's because her husband approved of the war?

Plus, didn't she get the red-white-and-blue memo? Pink clashes with just about everything.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. I don't like the cage...but there are crazies looking for a reason to kill
not just protest...it's extreme to create that cage...but I am not sure its the absolute wrong thing to do.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. It is the absolute wrong thing to do. The "crazies" aren't carrying signs
The pens are there for one reason and one reason only: to suppress free speech.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. OMG
I am not often speechless, but I am now.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. pens are for animals and criminals
a simply message, sent simply.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. Was that who Hillary turned around to look at?
I remember watching Teresa Heinz speak and the camera panned to Hillary who turned around and was watching some sort of commotion behind her. The camera didn't follow what she was looking at and I wondered what had happened.

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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
43. I think all the printed signs look stale
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 01:07 PM by bloom
and rather corporate.


I think more banners would be good. Too bad they feel like they have to monitor/censor everything.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
52. I'm sorry to be so negative
but I don't think Kerry is really going to attempt to stop the police state, though it will be less dangerous with Ashcroft and Ridge gone.

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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Tonight's speaches
Only in America, could the son of Nazi war criminal, and the son a of a southern mill worker share the same stage…to stand for the election of a billionaire who will protect us from mega billionaires, and alternatively people waving pink banners and scarves.

It all makes for great theater, I’m beginning to understand the thinking in 1968.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. Who exactly is the son of a Nazi war criminal?
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I was wondering the same...
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #57
99. Shalikashvili's father was a Georgian SS soldier....
He went far in this father's field, he's not governor anywhere or anything like that....
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #99
109. and that has what to do with Kerry?
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. I'm pretty sure, nothing...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Gee that sounds a lot like something Nader would say.
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 01:41 PM by redqueen
:puke:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
66. please see post 61 below
I see the problem as something that has been creeping up on us for a long time. Just look at the growing industry in "non-lethal" crowd control devices. After the Seattle WTO demonstrations the National Lawyers Guild issued a long documented report on the blurrings lines between military and police.

The acceptance of the protest pen at the DNC just demonstrates how the threshold of what is considered ok has changed.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
82. You know RQ, denial ain't just a river friend
Look, as much as it pains you, looking at the Democratic record, both in the White House and Congressional chambers, the sad truth is that the Democrats have been as equally culpable as the 'Pugs in bringing about the survailance society that we live in. Clinton introduced and signed the '95 Anti-Terroism Act and the Terrorist Apprehension Act, both very heavy handed bills that stripped away some more of our civil liberties. This was in addition to the civil liberties that were taken away under his management of the War on Drugs, including his expansion of asset forfeiture.

In addition, how many Dems supported the Patriot Act? How many supported the Vaderland(excuse me, Homeland)Security Dept. formation? What about the bits and pieces of Patriot Act II that keep getting slipped in as riders and amendments?

Face it, the Democrats are just as responsible for our modern surveilance state as the 'Pugs are. And yes, this is something that Nader would say, and rightfully condemn. And guess what, Dennis would stand right there with Ralph on this issue.<http://www.denniskucinich.org/materials/TenPoints.pdf>. Not all bad things are solely the fault of Republicans, the Democratic party has plenty of blood on it's hands too, both figuratively and literally. It is one of the prices we pay for living under the two party/one corporate master system of government.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. I'm not arguing with the reasoning behind the premise, friend,
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 02:14 PM by redqueen
just the method of dealing with it.

If there isn't enough difference for you, is it wise to work towards the re-election of the party FURTHEST from what you stand for?
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. These glaring oversights and suppression
of the undeniable reality do not bode well for future harmony. should this become an emerging strategy by the opposition party, it could become very ugly.

Over 51 deaths in Iraq today, but no one breathe a word.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. what I am saying is
the line between police and military in regards to crowd control and handling dissent began to blur even before Bush took office. 9-11 and the PATRIOT act just made it even more difficult to turn things around. I'm not blaming it on Kerry. I don't see politicians of either party expressing concern over things like the "Miami model"
I feel like we are a lobster in a pot of water as the heat slowly rises.
Well at least Kerry depises Ashcroft which is a good sign.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. All they did was walk her out
She was released - she was not arrested...the line between detainment and paramilitary rule also gets blurred when people claim offense at something that occurs at Disneyland every day of the year.

She was escorted out ...temporarily detained and released. She wasn't arrested. She wasn't charged. There's no court appearance. She was taken out of the room. While I would have preferred they let her hold her banner up, the Dem convention is for Democrats...Benjamin is Green. If a Repub had done a similar thing at the Dem convention everyone would be cheering theri detainment. Benjamin was protesting as a non-member of the party at the party's convention.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Oh so, if it was a " Democrat" who held up a banner
that represented the majority of people on the floor, it would've made a difference? She supports Kerry, btw.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Then hold up the fucking banner on inauguration day
In the meantime, get him elected. It's the best chance to end the occupation that there is.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Who are you to demand when citizens can or can't
exercize their rights?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Didn't say that,. Who are you to put words in my mouth?
She is a member of the Green party..this is the Dem convention.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
89. Like Ron Reagan?
I see Dems are insulated from the rest of the body politic? They reject the inclusive appeal?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #89
96. They rejected a member of the Green party violating their media rules
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 02:20 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
Vote Green if you don't like it. Live with the consequences.

The choices are chocolate or vanilla...who am I to stop you from engaging in death by chocolate if that is what you so desire?
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #77
114. Guess who else is voicing opinion in the Democratic convention
REPUBLICANS.

You whine about a single Green party member holding up a banner with a message many -- if not all -- of the attendees would agree with.

Meantime, Sean Hannity is spewing his filth all over the Democratic convention.

Brent Bozell is at the Democratic convention, saying his piece.

Larry Elders is at the Democratic convention, getting coverage.

Bill Oh'Really is at the Democratic convention, picking fights with Michael Moore.

FOX news is covering the Democratic convention, in the lovable republican-friendly way only they can.

CNN has pulled out its pet rightwingers, Hemmer and Crowley, to give Fox a run for their money.

Save your resentiment for the people who really deserve it.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. to try to be more clear
the whole train of thought for me came from thinking about Medea in handcuffs, the protest pen, the permit battle in NYC, the Miami model. etc. Perhaps I was a bit OT, in this particular case the handcuffs become symbolic of an intolerance to me it is the larger picture I am thinking about.

-And of course Kerry had nothing to do with the fact that they cuffed her.

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. While I think it was a poor choice
I don't think it was paramilitary, the Dems probably would have looked better to just let her hold the sign and it would have caused less of a stir amongst the more hysterical, but certainly there is no indication that the DNC acted with malice, and I can't blame the Dems for now wanting a replay of 68..it's not as though that turned out well.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
60. While I don't favor causing her to be handcuffed nor taken out
many of the posts on this thread still demonstrate that the left doesn't get it. There are TWO...count them TWO choices in this election...Bush and Kerry...anything that damages Kerry helps Bush. That is my first point.

My second point is that there are those acting as though Theresa Kerry escorted or CAUSED Medea Benjamin to BE escorted out. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. and how would her banner have damaged Kerry?
We DO get it. What I don't understand is how anyone with a brain in their head could possibly think that Benjamin's banner could damage Kerry.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Simple. Are the democrats capable of ending the occupation now?
We don't control the house - we don't control the senate - we don't control the White House - why does the left continue to BLAME Democrats for a war that was going to happen regardless? Can you HONESTLY say that if the IWR was not passed there would be no war? Can you honestly say that if every Dem voted against IWR, there would be no war? Can you honestly say that the Dems CAN end the occupation now? Can Theresa Kerry do anything about that in and of herself? Why disrupt HER speech?
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. At the very least the blood wouldn't be on their hands.
The NYTimes put forth their own mea culpa and it wasn't lost on them that politicians had yet to acknowledge the war was\is a mistake. Everytime you defend the Democrats for their helplessness, you insult all those who did make a stand and took the heat for not keeping with the program. The biggest issue on the fucking page and the Democrats can't even address it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Really? Did the New York Times admit they helped manufacture
evidence?

I've seen the issue addressed this week...I heard Bill Clinton address it the other night. Maybe you haven't noticed the one sidedness of the press covering this election...no?

BTW...I can't be insulting everyone...I protested the war and do not feel I am insulting myself...every time you generalize, you embarrass yourself.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. The NYTimes said they did not question the evidence
closely and ignored those who challenged the validity of the case for war.

It was posted on this site.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Not questioning evidence
isn't quite the same thing as helping to manufacture it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. So the fuck what? With their inaccurate reporting via Miller
the made making the case against war to the American people impossible.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
92. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
110. Nice personal attack
This is the Democratic Party convention, not the Green convention. She is free to profess political viewpoints all she wants...nobody arrested her. She was expressing them outside the confines of the rules of the convention and was escorted out. Tough shit.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. Out of curiosity..do the Greens let Dems disrupt their conventions?
Just asking. Benjamin is a Green..not a Democrat.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. Why in the world was she allowed in?
Some Democrat must have given their pass to her.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. She supports Kerry
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 02:10 PM by CWebster
and you are trying to steer the issue into Green bashing.

Righty, sorry, out the door.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. In post #69 you say she supports Kerry.
Which is it?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. Oh I see. It's OK for a Green to disrupt on the floor of the Dem
convention, but I am not allowed to say the obvious. Thought you were a proponent of free speech? Did you change your mind since it disagrees with you?
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Who prevented you?
Trying to twist it into something else again?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. NO you clearly are
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. How in the world does holding a sign disrupt the floor?
?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. It was a violation of the media rules the convention agreed to
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #91
103. and why did the Democrats agree to such rules?
? Are the media not going to cover them? Seriously.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. It;s their convention and it is their right to set the rules for the
orderly presentation of their platform. I am sure people realize that walkning into the hall. Does the Green Party get to decide the Dem platform now too?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. I wonder if the majority of the delegates were offended.
Somehow, I think that there would be a lot more support for her than not.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #108
119. The democratic party doesn't get to decide it either, which is why
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 07:08 PM by Classical_Liberal
we have greens. The convention and platform committee was way to the right of the democrats and suppressing signs is still stupid.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #91
106. You didn't answer the question. How was that disruptive?
And who set those rules, and why aren't we questioning them?
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. She supports Kerry in swing states. Cobb in safe states.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
84. that was in 2000, read this letter
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 02:13 PM by G_j
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0723-09.htm

Published on Friday, July 23, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
An Open Letter to Progressives: Vote Kerry and Cobb
by Medea Benjamin/Peter Coyote/John Eder/Daniel Ellsberg et al

There is no greater political imperative this year than to retire the Bush regime, one of the most dangerous and extremist in U.S. history. As people dedicated to peace, economic justice, equality, sustainability and constitutional freedoms, we are committed to defeating Bush.
The only candidate who can win instead of Bush in November is John Kerry. We want Kerry to replace Bush, because a Kerry administration would be less dangerous in many crucial areas, including militarism, civil liberties, civil rights, judicial appointments, reproductive rights and environmental protection.



But while helping Kerry-Edwards defeat Bush-Cheney, we don't want to endorse Kerry positions that are an insult to various causes we support, including movements for global justice and peace that have burgeoned in recent years. Indeed, we want to communicate to Kerry and the world that we oppose many of his policies, including some that are barely distinguishable from Bush policies.

Accordingly, we encourage progressives to organize and vote strategically this year.


1.. In "swing states," where few percentage points separate Bush and Kerry, we encourage activists to mobilize voters behind Kerry. (A frequently updated list of swing states is posted at www.swing04.com.)

2.. In "safe states" (and Washington, D.C.), so overwhelmingly pro-Bush or pro-Kerry that we can be confident of who will win in November, we encourage activists to mobilize voters behind Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb.

3.. In all states, we encourage activists to engage in election-year vigilance to ensure that all votes count, especially those of racial minorities -- and to advocate for instant runoff voting and other reforms so that voters in future elections can support the candidate they most believe in without risk of electing the candidate they most oppose.
David Cobb has earned our endorsement in safe states by deftly steering the Green Party toward a nuanced strategy dedicated to ousting Bush, while seeking to grow a grassroots party that stands unapologetically for peace, racial and social justice, economic democracy, civil liberties and genuine ecology. The Green Party gives political voice to movements that challenge Bush's Iraq policy and resist trade arrangements that trample on workers' rights, human rights and the environment.

Despite a Democratic Party base that is increasingly progressive, anti-NAFTA/WTO and anti-war, John Kerry has lost the strong, brave voice he had as a young man who challenged the Vietnam War and now offers a faint echo of too many Bush policies -- from Iraq and military spending to the global trade regime and corporate coddling (e.g. Kerry's plan to reduce corporate taxes).

We are disappointed that, four years after the Florida disaster, Kerry and leading Democrats (with exceptions such as Dennis Kucinich, Jesse Jackson Jr. and Howard Dean) do not promote common-sense electoral reforms like instant runoff voting that would once and for all eliminate the "spoiler" risk that deforms U.S. elections.

With our electoral system yet to be fixed, we are left this year with the improvised solution of endorsing one candidate in some states and another candidate in other states. This dual-endorsement solution is preferable to endorsing either a candidate with important positions we oppose or a solidly progressive candidate whose votes in swing states could help Bush get four more years.

In this crucial election year, we encourage progressives to work tirelessly to vote Bush out -- as we build grassroots networks and coalitions to hold the Kerry administration accountable to the progressive values and policies shared by most Americans.

Medea Benjamin
Peter Coyote
John Eder
Daniel Ellsberg
Angela Gilliam
Kevin Gray
Tom Hayden
Elizabeth Horton Sheff
Rabbi Michael Lerner
Robert McChesney
Norman Solomon


(Signers endorse this statement as individuals, not as representatives of any groups.)

Medea Benjamin (Code Pink, Global Exchange); Peter Coyote (actor); John Eder (Maine state legislator/Green Party); Daniel Ellsberg (Pentagon Papers whistleblower); Angela Gilliam (professor/feminist scholar); Kevin Gray (Jackson '88/Sharpton '04); Tom Hayden (former California State Senator/activist); Elizabeth Horton Sheff (Hartford City Council/Green Party); Rabbi Michael Lerner (Tikkun); Robert McChesney (communications professor/author); Norman Solomon (author/columnist)


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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Which is it?
In the letter she says there is no more important goal than to unseat Bush.

With her actions she shows that there IS a more important goal.

So which is it?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. that is only if one accepts the premise
that her banner hurts Kerry. I respect your opinion but I don't share it. I don't think it hurts Kerry at all, it just shows a healthy, albeit a bit messy, democratic process where passionate people interact.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. It is not the banner itself which hurts Kerry's chances of winning
Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 02:27 PM by redqueen
It is the brouhaha after the fact... when the result should have been completely expected.

There are far too many people drinking the 'no difference' (or 'not enough difference') kool-aid... we don't need to help the GOP. Our focus should be - as Ms. Benjamin apparently has said herself - unseating bush, not chastising Dems during an event at which we are trying to woo swing voters.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. unfortunately
I seem to have sidetracked the conversation myself with the police state comments, which have more to do with that damn protest cage.
It may have sounded like I was saying there is no difference between parties but I didn't mean that.
I think its more like a dangerous trend in our culture.

At this point I regret the post because it seems to have become a source of unnecessary antagonism and confusion.

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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #98
105. Her sign didn't chastise the dems. It chastised occupation
just as my signs in 88 chastise the farm crisis.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
80. But 1)she advocates voting for Kerry 2)95% of the democratic delegates are
in agreement with her. 3)A sign is not disruptive. 4)When I was a delegate the National Convention along time ago in Atlanta, the Iowa delegation all held signs in support of the farmers not one was kicked out. This is really bullshit.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. that is why I consider this a healthy Dem tradition n/t
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
111. She was trying to remind the Democrats what we're supposed
to stand for. Tsk, tsk. Such effrontery to the bosses.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
115. She got what she wanted...
.. she didn't hope that everyone in the building would turn around to see her sign, she wanted to be arrested, make it as ugly as possible.. to get publicity. We all feel bad about the war, but sometimes I think people like that just need too damn much attention. What did she accomplish? Jack shit. Except to further divide the ONLY party that can accomplish the goal of no-more first strikes!!
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. AMEN
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. she told you this? n/t
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