Votes for Dennis, yay!

[GreenPartyVoter]

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[JohnKleeb]

1. see hes in second place after all heh

I bet people never predicted that. I hope he stays in 2nd. It would be lovely to see my favorite and 2nd fave candiate both do great.

[Obamarama]

2. How petty and ridiculous...

Too bad they couldn't just come together on this, of all nights.

[Kitka]

17. Yes, how ridiculous that those that voted for him should get a voice.

:eyes:

[asthmaticeog]

65. Hey, I voted for DK in the primary.

So the delegate I voted for isn't allowed to represent my vote at my party's convention? Do you wonder why people defect to the Greens? Is the Democratic party only a "big tent" for the obedient? Kerry will get his coronation, you can stop worrying.

[Renew Deal]

3. Cheesy and classless

and I am being nice. That looked bad.

[onehandle]

4. Swell.....

A sweep would have made headlines.

[Tweed]

7. I doubt a sweep would have made headlines

Everyone knows Kerry is going to nominated. Who cares how much it is by?

[JohnKleeb]

9. exact;y

its not like theres a division.

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

5. 17 as of now!

yay Dennis!

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Kerry is clearly going to carry the day, so I don't think that

Dennis getting a few votes will hurt anything.

Sheesh, it's not like he can "spoil" the convention or anything.

[TheWebHead]

8. Dennis didn't "release" his delegates with much passion

he seems happier about their refusal to vote for Kerry... he said "vote your conscience", no matter how petty it looked

http://www.kucinich.us/insideout/072704/vote_conscience.php

...Several delegates also argued on Sunday that their voting for Kucinich would let the Democratic Party know that there is a strong, growing, and vocal progressive wing within the party. "The Democratic Party will be stronger by letting us vote our convictions," said another delegate. "We will support the ticket, but first we have an obligation to vote our convictions."

At the private meeting yesterday, Kucinich told his supporters, "I want all of us to leave this convention united. There has to be a unity of purpose when we leave Boston so that we can win in November."

[Obamarama]

10. Oh please...I'm not buyin' what you have to sell......

Tonight is the time to come together and show our unity. Everyone had until tonight to gnash their teeth and wallow in regret or whatever. Get over it and get behind the clearly identified leader. Don't these people know the simple basics about being part of a TEAM?

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. The righties say that all the time about *, too.

[latebloomer]

12. The "clearly identified leader"

is NOT speaking for many of us. We have a right to voice our protest. Or should we be put outside in the free speech cage?

[Obamarama]

13. Of course not....

But how long does it take for you people to pick up the clue phone when it's ringing off the hook?

[Robbien]

18. Why are you pushing people away?

What purpose does that serve? Kerry wins and other views get voiced. What's the problem?

[Kitka]

19. The problem is that although many Dems talk about inclusion,

they resent the more progressive wing of the party expressing their POV.

[never_get_over_it]

27. Bingo

that is exactly why Dennis stayed in the campaign to have a voice for folks like us - there is nothing wrong with his Delegates voting for him....

[dweller]

35. We picked up the phone

and got a dialtone.

what WE needed was a message. DK delivered it.

you settled for the ringy-dingy.
funny that you call us clueless.

:eyes:
dp

[Tweed]

14. You would force people to not speark their heart

How American :eyes:

[Obamarama]

20. No.....

I'm just pointing out that it's futile, self-serving and petty at THIS STAGE of the process. I don't understand it. I am certainly not suggesting these delegates don't have a RIGHT to cast their votes for DK, so don't foist THAT pathology on my comments.

Just as they have the right to cast the votes, I have the right to say that I think it's futile, pointless, self-serving and not neccessary.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Do you think Dennis' platform is futile, too?

[latebloomer]

22. It's not pointless

because we have to keep the pressure up on Kerry, now and after he wins. Many of his positions do NOT speak for us, and he needs to hear about it. Repeatedly.

[dweller]

23. 'futile, pointless, self-serving and not neccessary'

and your point is?

oh, that was your point, . . . how pretzled logic'd it is.

dp

[never_get_over_it]

28. No I don't think I will

get over it - Just because we're happy that Dennis got some votes does not mean we are not behind the clearly identified leader....didn't the repunks tell us to get over the stealing of the election? Just wondering

[Kitka]

15. My thoughts exactly. I voted for him in the primaries.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. 6 votes for Dennis from my home state of Maine!

[KathCO]

39. 15 from my home state of Colorado!! (the most)

[GreenPartyVoter]

69. Welcome to DU! :^D

[never_get_over_it]

24. Dennis did not quit the primary campaign

I believe he, Sharpton and Kerry were the only ones left. And for God's sake his Delegates have every right to vote for him - this is the most unified convention I have ever seen for a non-incumbent President - a few votes for Dennis is not classless or petty - there are plenty of us who voted and supported him financially and with volunteer hours and as one of those folks I am very happy that he has gotten votes.

[JohnKleeb]

25. Sharpton did eventually quit

I am happy to see that my one and two from the beginning have gotten the most votes heh, I had Kucinich and Kerry as my one and two.

[Skip Intro]

26. I can't believe people are bothered by this

DK earned those votes.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems bla bla bla - anyway, here it is again:

On CSpan, they have a Kerry vote total and an "Others" vote total.

Only votes for JK and DK have been cast.

DK's name should be beside his vote total.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Dennis sure did earn them!

[Kitka]

31. I can't believe it either. The man was the only opponent not to fold.

and people who should be honoring people like that are dissing him.

[Kanary]

34. Honoring has gone out of style

It's only for us geezers.

When people start talking about figuring out why so many people don't vote in this country, this thread should be brought back as exhibit A.

Kanary

[dweller]

37. BOOKMARKED!

in your honor K,
dp

[Kanary]

41. aw, what a sweet post!

Dang, if you get all nice to me, and cause me to drop my armor, then I get a spear right through the heart, it's all your fault.

~~gigglesnort~~

:hug: Thanks, dp!

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Kanary, you are so right. The rudeness of the media

when it comes to discussions of politics has seeped into the very bones of this country.

No wonder we have such sucky foreign policies, we can't even hold a respectful conversation with people who are "on our side".

[Kanary]

42. "Respect"?????

Geeeez, are you a creaky old geezer, too?

Next, I suppose you'll be asking for "understanding".

Damn, these old farts are just soooooooooo demanding!

:hi:

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

68. I'm a creaky 32 yo (too much time in front of the computer) *lol*

I am pretty demanding though. I oughta be a force to reckon with by the time I hit my "blue hair" days. *g*

[DemBones DemBones]

44. Right on, Kanary!

All of us who opposed the war are getting precious little out of this convention. I'll vote for Kerry and hope for the best but I don't blame the Kucinich delegates who decided to stay with Dennis. Dennis told them to vote their conscience but he also endorsed Kerry before the convention began and gave a great unity speech tonight.

Conventions were more interesting when there was a question as to who would win the nomination.

[Kanary]

45. Do you remember, in the runup to the war, all the outrage here

at bushwa yelling "traitor, traitor" to anyone not agreeing with him 100%??

Now, we're witness to DEMOCRATS here using that word against EACH OTHER, for the least straying from the proscribed path.

Have we all flippin' flipped????

Kanary

[GreenArrow]

60. must....defeat...

Bush...whirrrr....

[G_j]

53. i hear ya n/t

[unfrigginreal]

32. I can believe it...

with all the goose-stepping that's been going on in this forum lately, it's no surprise at all. It's not enough to be voting Kerry in November, you better be enthused about it or you're a traitor.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Wonder if that would still hold true if it was Dennis who

was going to take the nod tonight?

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. Kick for da Kooch!

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. 43 total for Dennis, but I know in my heart that

there would have been more if the DNC had used IRV during the primaries.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[The Blue Knight]

40. Good for Dennis J. Kucinich, I say!

[vetwife]

43. Well...Dennis 's point is? I like him but the secret to succes is

I have been told is knowing when to quit. Nader and Dennis need to learn a thing or two about that. Loyalty is a two edged sword. If Dennis released his delegates, then they should have honored it since he got up on the convention floor and said We need John Kerry. He said in the debates he would stand behind the nominee. He endorsed Kerry. Now who was loyal? Dennis or his delegates? Did he release them, did he tell them to vote their conscience and then stand on the convention floor and look like a hypocrite or did the delgates dishonor him by not throwing their support to the preseumptive nominee? I had a problem with him staying in the whole time..Why? What was his point.? I liked Dennis Kusinich but he had no chance whatsoever of winning. America is just not ready to be a pacifist country. Never will be. Wish it was, but it won't be. Dennis has a lot of good ideas but so did Sharpton. So did Dean and so did Clark. I was a Clarkie. Knowing when to step aside for the good of something is part of the key to success. Staying around to either help your ego or make the party look not united is insantiy. Sorry that is the way I feel. My whole question is whether his delegates made him look bad for any future run? There lies the two edged sword.

[Kitka]

46. And people wonder why progressives are leaving the party....

A man sticks to his beliefs and sees what he started through to the end and he's slammed for it. Yeah, okay. I was a Deaniac who campaigned hard for him and he gave up - as did the rest of them. Kucinich stuck it out to keep his message going, and as I agreed with that message more than Kerry's, he got my vote. Many people voted for him. The delegation process calls for votes such as mine to be considered at the convention. His delegates honored that process. It's not a two edged sword at all - it's how it works. Don't like it? Lobby to change it.

[vetwife]

47. Well why did he give up before the convention? That is what is confusing

He should have just stuck it out. It looke hypocritical the way he did it, is all I am saying. I just disagree. None of the Dean folks threw their votes to their nominee. It looked bad on Dennis while the party is calling for unification in a very unusal time of this republic. Otherwise, I would say the more the merrier.

[JohnKleeb]

50. Wont be leaving the party for a long time and I am progressive as they com

I dont like the bitching about people who voted for Dennis that said but I dont like the ideas of progressives walking out on the party, Dennis believes in Kerry-Edwards and I believe in them too. If you guys in the progressive wing really wanna help push our party and nation towards our goals, stay and make change from within, Hubert Humphrey didnt abandon the democratic party for the progressive party in '48 because of disagreement with some of the dem party, he instead spoke eleqotely about the need for the party to move out of the shadow of states rights and in to the bright sunshine of human rights, and that helped give birth to a pro civil rights democratic party. I dont like being alienated either but it wont push me to leave the party.

[G_j]

52. did you know that MLK

talked about running third party as a peace candidate?
I was around during Humphrey's time and voted for him though I supported the peace candidate Eugene McCarthy through the primaries. There is a chance I still might not see the Democratic party support a real peace candidate in my life time. Be careful about judging others on the extent of their committment.
I know people who have given most of their lives to make those changes you speak of. How far have we come?
I won't judge you for working within the party.

[JohnKleeb]

54. I thought I heard that MLK contemplated supporting RFK or McCatthy

before he died. I dont hate third parties btw, I jsut think it basically negates our ideas to get change if we just give up. I wont judge, I just think its not smart to abandon the party, we agree with them more than we disagree, right. I hate to say it but if I worked for these changes and died but later had the policy pushed in, it would be worth it. Many of those who pushed the same ideas that became part of the new deal were long dead or very old when FDR became president. I am sorry if I was judgemental but I dont see what helps if we just flee the party because of things, I find more in agreement with the democratic party than I disagree. I am also a yellow dog democrat, I get that from my infleucnes. Sorry again if I came across judgemental, I dont doubt their committment but third party doesnt seem the best way to get the point across, its always worth trying, I know it takes forever to get true change but it does come.

[G_j]

55. no offense taken

I was just trying to state my point in a forceful enough way to convey what some of us have been through in this struggle.
As hard a time as third parties have had in America, we desperately need more choices for real democracy to flourish.
That is something else I probably won't see in my life time. ah well.. One thing we can possibly accomplish, though it will be a very tough battle is clean elections. That would greatly improve the two party system.

MLK attended a meeting in 67 or 68 of the major civil rights organizations at which the possibility of He and Dr. Spock running on a third party ticket was discussed. Unfortunately the conference fell apart over some major ideological differences.

[JohnKleeb]

56. I hadnt heard that

Of course, we need more choices, I'd like to see the house of representives become like the house of commons. I realize a lot of you guys have been fighting for a long time before I was even born, dont deny that you guys fight for what you believe in for a min, I just think we need to make third parties more common before we leave the dems, and honestly I think Kerry will be a better president than Clinton. I saw the King thing re: him backing RFK or McCarthy on a newsreel where he mentions that the Johnson adminstration has slipped away from civil rights as the main goal and the war in Vietnam was more important to them and he mentions that RFK or McCarthy were good alternatives. Thanks for understanding, I just despite my more idealogically ailgnment with some of the other parties consider myself a dem because of the new deal in which FDR's legislation did a lot.

[G_j]

58. have you heard his Riverside church speech?

IMO, it is the best anti-war speech ever! I could listen to it a thousand times and still be inspired.

I also agree, I think Kerry will be better than Clinton in many ways.
He is definitely more liberal. Unfortunately he will be inheriting a complete nightmare, aside from the civil war, probably the worst mess in American history. Bush has unleashed some of the darkest demons anyone can imagine, and we were in trouble already environmentally etc. before Bush even took office. The ME is spiraling out of control. It will be very difficult.

[G_j]

48. you are right, you don't get it

and it doesn't sound like you will.
True Democracy is about ideas, ideals, hopes and dreams.
I don't think the founders saw the process like a football game. In fact most of them were opposed to the idea of parties at all.
Dennis had something worth while to contribute pure and simple and that is why he gave so much of his time and energy. Those ideals and dreams are very dear to him any many people. They are important to enough people that they gave of themselves to keep those ideals alive and in the discussion even though they knew he would "win". That is the beauty of Democracy.
He gave us a gift.

BTW, As long as people believe that there will always be war, then there will always be war.

[Dancing_Dave]

49. If Kerry persists in the Iraq madness long enough, Dennis is likely to win

In 2008.

Or the Republicans might win, but a Democrat going down with his Vietnam like Johnson is not what we want to see.

If hope Kerry learns just like he did when he went from serving in Vietnam to leading the Vietnam Veterans Against the War!

And really, SOMEONE ought to be brave and insightful to say that at this convention.:think:

[JohnKleeb]

51. Do we even know if Dennis is gonna run in 2008 is a question

I dont think anyone is even considering that at this moment, and in fact I hear Kucinich is gonna try to become governor or senator of Ohio.

[genius]

74. If he doesn't run and Kerry doesn't go progressive, we'll draft him

It wouldn't be the first time a party switched candidates at the four year mark.

[Gore1FL]

57. the letter was kind of sophamoric

Most of the letter has been addressed, is not really an issue, or lacks the obviousl contrast betweeen George W. Bush and human life form.

My favorite:

OPEN DEBATES: Voters can't be expected to vote their conscience without first hearing from all of the valid candidates. This means letting in all of the qualified candidates, not only the Republican and Democratic ones.

If only qualified candiates were allowed in the 2004 debates, Kerry would pretty much be talking to himself.

[GreenPartyVoter]

70. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, then. And it's "sophOmoric"

[Zorra]

59. GPV: Bottom line: America is basically brainwashed by RW media.

You know this as well as I do.

I understand what you are saying, but

Let's remain united until we see the actual policies attempted after Jan. 20.

If it becomes clear that things are not going in the right direction, then we can begin a sustained active assault.

I stand with Dennis, and right now, he is standing with John Kerry.

So John Kerry may actually kick some serious ass if given at least one branch of Congress to work with.

I think he may surprise a lot of people.

"From the moment I take office, I will stand up to the special interests and stand with hardworking families so that we can give America back its future and its ideals." John Kerry

I plan to hold him to his word.

[GreenPartyVoter]

71. Yep, I'll help you hold his feet to the fire. And I bet Dennis will too.

[deutsey]

61. A reflection of reality

not everyone is (or should be) marching in lockstep with Kerry. The Democrats should not be afraid of dissension or diversity. I'm voting for Kerry but I have huge differences with him and the Dem platform over Iraq. It's nice to know that there are people in the Dem coalition who still insist that their voice be heard.

[Imperialism Inc.]

62. Awsome. Glad they got a chance to vote their hearts.

He gave a wonderful speech. I'll be fighting for his election reform platform once Kerry is in the White House. Probably at BetterDemocracy.us or ElectionReform.us though I haven't purchased either domain quite yet.
For those opposed to these votes, well, Welcome to Democracy. It can be a little hard to get used to at first , but its elections sure beat the heck out of those 100% Communist results. Stick around, give it a try, it grows on you after a while. ;-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

72. Let me know when you get a site started on election reform

and I'll get it linked. (Both those domains are great, btw!)

[no name no slogan]

63. A kick for my pal Charley Underwood!

Charley was the dissenting vote from MN. He was also the one interviewed on Democracy Now! after some of his peace signs were confiscated by the floor police on Monday. He's a little cantankerous sometimes, but he's all heart.

He is a lifelong pacifist, a kindergarten teacher, a tireless peace advocate, was a conscientious objector in Vietnam, a kindergarten teacher, and is a genuinly all-around nice guy.

Thanks for standing tall and voting your conscience!! :toast:

[John_Shadows_1]

64. Dennis! The real democrat!

Thanks for fighting for the real values of the party.

[JohnLocke]

66. They have a right to do so - I am glad.

They will all be voting Kerry come November anyway.

[redqueen]

67. Yes, thank goodness

I'm glad that there is now clear evidence that some Democrats did not agree to give their tacit approval of an occupation that is the direct result of a war we didn't have to start and which was based on sexed up evidence that should have been seen through from the start.

[regularguy]

73. I'll crawl across broken glass to vote Kerry in NOV., BUT

DK is why I'm still a Democrat!