Votes for Kucinich - a party divided

[TexasSissy]

I was soooooooo disappointed to see votes for Kucinich at the convention this evening, especially since Kucinich had withdrawn and put his support behind Kerry.

A party united will conquer. A party divided will fall.

It would have sent a stronger message had all the delegates voted for the nominee. No, Kerry wasn't my first choice, either. And I have problems with some of Kerry's positions. But he's the nominee.

I'm not ragging the ones who voted for Kucinich. Just voicing my disappointment and dismay. The Repubs are in control of all three branches of the government because they stick together. We will never win unless we back the same horse....our horse.

[NewJerseyDem]

1. I assume the decision will be made unanimous

That is usually what happens at these conventions. However, I was also unhappy to see those votes for Kucinich, but I was pleased that others like Dean did not get any votes.

[DemBones DemBones]

2. Didn't you see Dennis Kucinich speak tonight? He gave

an excellent speech about unifying behind John Kerry. I voted for Kucinich and I'll vote for Kerry, like most people who voted for someone else in the primary.

[jpgray]

3. Let them vote for what they believe in

The media will pounce on this of course as they will any sign of 'division', but this has nothing to do with rejecting Kerry so much as affirming their support for Kucinich and his values, in my view.

[DenverDem]

4. Bullshit, Democrats won after contentious conventions before.

The votes for Kucinich showed that Democrats are not mindless dittoheads like the willfully ignorant publican lemmings.

Man, the roll call of states used to be pretty exciting when there was an actual contest. There was no real reason for doing it since it was a walkover anyway.

[bluestateguy]

5. They have the right to vote for him

They earned it. They worked for him, and as long as they support Kerry now, I have no problem with it. I would also remind you that several hundred delegates voted for Tsongas, Brown and a few other fringe candidates in 1992. Last time I checked, that election worked out OK.

[JohnKleeb]

11. so this isnt rare, didnt know that

[TexasSissy]

20. I know they have the right. My point was a party divided. And 2004

isn't like 1992.

Yes, they had the right. And Clark supporters had the right to vote for him. And Edwards supporters had the right to vote for him for President instead of Vice President. And Sharpton supporters had the right to vote for him. And Braun supporters had the right to vote for her.

This party, for all its inclusiveness and tolerance of a variety of viewpoints, just seems to fail to stick together...on congressional bills, on candidates, etc. It just dismays me sometimes. Maybe it's because we're a more diverse party that we don't stick together.

I was watching the vote on a bill in the Senate the other day. It was a Repub bill. Every single Republican - every one - voted for the bill. And 33 Democrats voted for it, as well. The other Democrats did not. That's why the Repubs are in control of the country, is what I think. They stick together. Support each other. If you look at the voting record of my two Repub Senators, they vote Republican straight down the line. They support Bush in every single bill, every issue. Sigh.

[Kitka]

32. Clark, Edwards, Sharpton, and Braun dropped out.

Kucinich didn't. Damn him for sticking to his ideas. We don't need that in the Democratic party! :eyes:

[TexasSissy]

38. Kucinich dropped out a week or so ago. They were voting for

someone who wasn't running. They were voting for someone who was supporting Kerry. The same as Clark and the others.

[Kitka]

57. Sorry, but Kucinich was not “just like” Clark and the others.

He kept going out and spreading his message until the end. I’m not sure how you could fail to see the difference.

[Zorra]

49. If it was a repub bill,, Kucinich type Democrats did not vote for it

DLC Democrats probably did. The division in the party is not caused by progressive Democrats. It is caused by those Democrats that vote with the republicans.

DK has kept me in the Democratic Party, and I suspect I'm not the only one.

Those votes for DK at the Convention were symbolic, and IMO, healthy, but make no mistake, we are united in our desire to insure that John Kerry is inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2005.

[sandnsea]

6. It was just a few

They worked alot longer than any other candidate for their votes, so I guess I can see some of them wanting to cast them. It would have been nice for a totally united convention, on the other hand, it's good to have the Kucinich voice visibly represented too.

[JohnKleeb]

10. feels good to me to see that in a way

things almost worked out the way I wanted them. I had Kucinich at number one and Kerry at number 2 before becoming a solid Kerry supporter in January. Just as long as they vote Kerry and spread the word for Kerry in November, I am happy.

[genius]

69. I've heard numbers as high as 48 or more.

I'll need to check my video for the exact count. That's more than a few.

[JohnKleeb]

7. well you know something did surprise me, wasnt the votes for Kucinich

but there was only one Minnesota delegate that went for DK, I guess that thing with the peace scarves was much ado about nothing because it was two DK supporters who allegedly had the problems, so maybe they did unite behind Kerry I guess.

[KathCO]

8. a vote for Kucinich will

send a message to Kerry and the other Dems about what some of the dem party feel is important.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Agreed! I think we are all voting for Kerry, but that doesn't mean

we can't tell him what we want for our country, and giving props to Dennis is just a shorthand way of telling John what we are looking for.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[sleipnir]

9. I disagree

I think it sends a good message to Kerry, et al.

"Don't forget us!"

It's a good message, subtle, but to the point. Tonight, the Democratic Wing of the Democratic party has allowed Kerry and Edwards a chance to work for everyone, but also put them on notice. If they screw up or move to far to the center and right after election, they will lose the support of the moderate to left Dems.

The party is divided, quite hard in fact, between what has been termed the "activists" and the "traditionals." The split is there, and no one can deny it, but we've all come together for the next few months, after that, it's all up to Kerry. It's his party to unite or divide.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnKleeb]

17. seems to me from what I read here

that roll calls havent always been unamious, the anedote about Tsongas for instance, this is the first convention I paid a lot attention to. Its not a big deal that they voted Kucinich, so what, as long as do the right thing come november which I know they will because Dennis will and they know its right.

[Kanary]

19. they *couldn't* have been unanimous in the past, because the

actual voting happened at the convention.

The front-loaded primaries, with a foregone conclusion going into the convention, is a relatively recent development.

Watch some of the old convention speeches on CSpan2....... LBJ and JFK were BOTH giving campaign speeches at the convention. It was actually exciting in those days..... Koppel just talked about it.

Kanary

[Zomby Woof]

33. yep

oh fuck it. (not directed at you, John - you are always okay by me)

[swag]

13. It's a great practice to vote for the candidate who "won you" as delegate

It's democratic. Nothing to be afraid of.

[Kitka]

27. Yes, I don't understand how people fail to honor our democracy

This is what the convention is for, people. Read up.

[JI7]

14. but they ARE sticking together

they also made sure to say that while some delegates may go to kucinich that ALL the delegation will support and work hard for Kerry for president. and of course kucinich gave a strong speech in support of kerry. and it wasn't even that many votes. let them have their few votes. they are some of his strongest supporters. most knew kucinich had little chance but they still worked hard.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Dennis released his delegates and told them to vote their consciences

So a bunch of them did.

There is a HUGE back-story to Dennis and this convention. If it seems appropriate, I'll tell it later next week.

[lostnfound]

21. I wondered tonight whether the 20 minutes he was given..

to speak was some kind of concession..For example, whether the rules permitted him to demand any kind of debate or other format to the convention that would have dampened the whole 'unified coronation' theme.

I am very grateful that he was able to speak for as long as he did, and during a fairly prime time slot.

[WilliamPitt]

35. Put it this way

It was going to be different, and then things moved on Sunday.

[scarletwoman]

48. I do hope you will share what you observed. (n/t)

[eridani]

51. Exactly. Dennis asked his delegates to vote for Kerry

And his delegates told him, No Way, not in round 1. All were supportive of the Kerry/Edwards ticket (and agreeable to joining a unanimous voice vote afterwards), but wanted to stand up against elective war and the PATRIOT Act and NAFTA, and for universal health care one more time before falling in line. Dennis had to back down after hearing his own words come back at him.

The WA state Kucinich delegation was unanimous for Dennis after communication with their state volunteer base. We knew that the outcome was obvious after Super Tuesday, but we still sweated blood to go from 0 delegates at the precinct caucuses to seven and an a alternate through the legislative and congressional district caucuses. The point was to promote the Kucinich platform all the way to the end. If we had wanted them to vote for Kerry, we could have just quit in February and let it go at that.

We have a couple of the youngest ones there--19 and never voted for a president yet. They were particularly adamant.

http://goodfunds.com/DK2004/

[asthmaticeog]

60. Jeez, Will,

Now I'm sitting here waiting for the other shoe to drop. I understand waiting until after the convention, but please do share!

[theoceansnerves]

16. how many votes did he get?

40? out of 4000+
that's hardly a party divided. :eyes:

[Pachamama]

26. Oh no! 1% of the Dem's sent a Peace Missionary some support!

I guess the fact that all those same 41 delegates who are throwing their support to Kerry even though they voted for Kucinich, are responsible for the decline of the democratic party!

:eyes:

As The Oceansnerves says - that's hardly a party divided...the Dems are so UNITED its amazing!!!

:kick:

[John_Shadows_1]

18. I think a few votes for a REAL Democrat are in order...

... and that ain't John Kerry.

[bhunt70]

22. uh ok.

[progressivebydesign]

25. Thank you for enlightening us on what a REAL Democrat is..

..as I'm sure you're the absolute authority on what a real democrat is. If you hold a little card that says you're a Democrat, then you're a Democrat. John Kerry earned the right, with his own blood, to call himself a Democrat.

[TexasSissy]

30. Kerry's a real Democrat. Kennedy's a real Democrat. I'm a real

Democrat.

To say that Kucinich is more of a Democrat because you support his positions on a couple of issues is insulting to your fellow Democrats.

That's what I mean by not sticking together. This is the message it sends. We're not one party. We're not really supporting you, John Kerry. It just sends a weaker message.

[John_Shadows_1]

31. National Single-Payer Health Care...

... the words which will never spill from John Kerry's lips.

[JohnKleeb]

42. its still unfair to call one man more of a real democrat than the other

The democratic party isnt one and the same. Kerry isnt for single payer health care but I do think his health care plan is a hell of lot better than what we got, he supports a patient's bill of rights and thinks people should have the same health care as their senators. There's so much variety of democrats, theres really no such thing as a more democrat, just a democrat who believes this and a democrat who believes that.

[JohnKleeb]

40. Thats where we agree

I do disagree with you on some though, you see it seems in '92 that Tsongas had gotten more votes than Kucinich got tonight and the party was still very unified, and we won of course. Now on your statement about true democrat, I agree, Kucinich and Kerry are both great democrats, neither is more of a true democrat than the other, I dont know why people have so much aminosity towards Kerry, people like to portray him as a wealthy guy who doesnt care about anyone but the wealthy but as we saw tonight from the Wochester fire department and a liberal voting record, I think anyone can see that Kerry is both a fine man and democrat.

[GreenArrow]

56. So who is more of a "real Democrat"

Ted Kennedy or Zell Miller?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

55. Thanks for playing. Don't look for a lovely parting gift.

[genius]

68. I'm hoping Kerry is just pretending not to be a real Democrat.

At least Dennis has the courage to stand up for the truth all the way.

[progressivebydesign]

23. I had mixed feelings about this...

.. on one hand, I thought it was a great way to shout out for Kucinich's never-wavering opposition to the Iraq war. .. It made the convention look less processed. BUT, on the other hand, I was so proud of the Dean delegates who refrained from making a statement at the peril of our vision of a united party behind Kerry. Dean was ALSO the anti-war candidate.

[TexasSissy]

37. You're right. The Dean supporters showed great control, and were

great sports for supporting "the cause." This most important cause that we all have right now. I know how strongly the Dean supporters feel. That was really, well, super of them. And good strategy, since it helps them in the long run. If Kerry gets elected, then they at least have someone sympathetic to them in the W.H. they can work on to support their issues.

I can sort of relate. I don't support any of the other candidates, but I do have problems with some of Kerry's positions. He is far from my dream candidate. But he's the only game in town right now, and I really do think he'll make a fine President. And at least steer the country back into the right direction.

[Solly Mack]

24. Republicans goose-step together and call it party unity

A party of the people has to be open to all the people within that party and their views ...or it's NOT the party of the people anymore and it becomes the party of the people who do as they're told.

Last I checked, Kucinich is a member of the democratic party...which mean those delegates voted for a democrat. The same party...just not the same opinion. Kucinich is not the enemy. Nor were his delegates.

[bobthedrummer]

28. This independent voter voted for DK in February's Wisconsin primary

and I'm voting Kerry/Edwards in November.

I voted for Nader in 2000 and think that the Democrats that still solely place the blame on Nader voters for the theft of our government should get a grip.

That said, I think the Democratic Party is going to benefit from the independent vote-and is actually going into a unifying process in a very clever way.

I don't see Dems splitting up at all, but gaining mass.

[G_j]

29. it is symbolic

appropriate and not at all unusual. They worked incredably hard.
It is not about sour grapes, its a postive statement about what DK stands for.

[Norquist Nemesis]

34. I'm torn on it...

On the one hand, Kunicich did stand before the delegates to promote and support Kerry. This, to me, should have been a message to the delegates to throw support to Kerry and demonstrate not only unity, but support for what their candidate is telling them. (Of course, the ballots had been turned in before his speech.)

On the other hand, they have every right to vote their conscience and should do so. That's why they are there and I respect there opinion and the right to voice it through the process. By doing so, it not only stays true to their convictions but it also says that there is still a strong left pull on the political rubber band.

:shrug:

[Kanary]

36. For the Love Of Dennis!

One of Dennis' main messages, and one of his posters (I saw a huge one being waved during his speech) says....

"FEAR ENDS. HOPE BEGINS"

Dennis constantly talked about not giving in to the fear, and if fact, tonight he denounced the "fear mongering".

What is behind all this hand-wringing about Dennis, both in the past, and even now, when everything is all sewed up, is FEAR. I can't say that too much....... this is FEAR BASED.

We have become soooo afraid of bushwa, that we're running scared, and see everything as some sort of threat. When we start letting that fear turn us off to candidates who have Our Best Interests At Heart, then bushwa wins.

When we let that fear turn us against each other, then bushwa wins.

I strongly urge you to listen to Dennis' words about fear, look inside and take out that fear and look at what it creates, and the burdens it places on us, and see it for what it is......... BUSHWA WINNING WHEN WE LET FEAR TAKE OVER.

A month from now, it won't be remembered how many people voted for Dennis. What WILL BE REMEMBERED is harsh words said to other hard-working Dems. You know, those people who not only SHOULD be our allies, but those people WE NEED AS ALLIES.

Kanary

[Desertrose]

41. well said Kanary

why are we so afraid to think out of the box...long as we vote Kerry in & Bush out...I am happy Dennis was able to make his point and he worked so hard to include everyone and pull them to Kerry.

Some people don't recognize a good man when they see him speak!

of course I don't mean you Kanary! :) another true DK supporter!!

Peace
DR

[Kanary]

62. thinking outside of the box......

Well, I'm allergic to boxes, so there you have that.

:hi:

Why? Well, look right here on DU...... if you dare to think differently, to put aside the fear, and think for yourself, you're very likely to be vilified, and the result is isolation. Human beings aren't meant to be alone..... we instinctively know that we NEED EACH OTHER, so our fear of being alone (which is a real fear--as opposed to drummed up fear of breaking with "unity"), so we carefully meaure our words, which leads to measuring our thoughts.

Many people in this country are afraid of the diversity of different ethnic groups and different races. That fear leads them to the ugly prejudices we've seen tear this country apart. Most of here would agree that it's that very diversity which lends strength to this country. The RW has used that fear to play to this suspicion of what is different in others, and has caused one huge DIVIDE in this nation. We have to remember that when we use the same fear tactics, we reap the same "rewards".

Fear leads people to being controlling. Power and control inevitably weakens, makes people more miserable, and saps the enthusiasm that is so necessary in the quest for hope.

There are things deserving that fear that leads us to action. The fear mongering that leads to division is toxic. WE all owe it to ourselves, and to our nation, to look closely at our own fears, so that we don't use it to push each other away at a time when we need each other the most.

Kanary

[StandUpGuy]

43. Agreed

We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Smoke and mirrors.

Great post.

[G_j]

44. thumbs up Kanary!

:thumbsup:

This fear thing has made people a bit uptight.
Kerry's nomination is official, symbolic peace votes are not a threat. :shrug:

[G_j]

52. I have a lot thoughts on this

but at this hour I can't do them justice.
I can say that on examination, I think most of us would find that many of the decisions we make as a people are based in fear. Sometimes it feels like all those phony hate mongers have spooked us. Maybe we are just afraid they will call us girly-men. :eyes:
Let me gather my thoughts and get back to this. I do think fear is at the heart of much of our troubles. If we act out of fear then we are not free.

[Selwynn]

39. I'm for coming together, but I don't agree that this is bad/wrong.

I want to try to walk the fine line between a healthy cooporative spirity of unity and a lock-step attitude. Diversity is good, even of views. I don't feel it was disrespectful or weakening.

[cyclezealot]

45. My vote is determined by issues not platitudes.

[PVnRT]

46. Kerry won by what? 3500-2?

Who cares if a few voted for Kucinich tonight, it didn't make any difference whatsoever. Kucinich never dropped out, never pledged his delegates elsewhere, so they had to reflect the popular vote and cast their votes as such.

[scarletwoman]

47. I thought it was a beautiful gesture!

I was so pleasantly surprised and delighted! I don't see it as endangering "Democratic unity" at all, I see it as a well-earned tribute to a man who so eloquently speaks to our highest ideals.

There is a spiritual dimension that transcends politics, and it is this spiritual dimension that lies at the heart of Kucinich's message of "Courage!"

To me, the votes for Kucinich represent an acknowledgement and affirmation of this spiritual dimension. From my point of view, this can only be a very GOOD thing!

Peace,
sw

[WindRavenX]

50. I was really hoping for a unanimous nomination myself

If only for the effect of it being a big "F-U" to the Republicans.
However, even though it wasn't unanimous, the Democratic Party is more united than it has been in at least a decade, if not more. The Republican Party is seeing some factions- in private, many Republicans, fiscal conservatives, have expressed displeasure with W-so IMHO, the Democrats are now the more united party.

[DemBones DemBones]

53. In the past, delegates were committed to their candidate for the

first ballot. If you ran as a Kucinich delegate, you had to vote for DK on the first ballot. Some took their commitment much farther than the first ballot, too.

The voting took place on the last night of the convention and lasted much longer, with marching band music and lots more festivity. The person speaking for a state's delegation would talk up their state a good bit and if their state had a "native son" in the race, it would be something like "Madam Chairwoman, the GREAT state of Vermont, the Green Mountain State, the home of ski lodges, maple syrup, Ben and Jerry's ice cream, and blah blah blah, PROUDLY casts its votes for Vermont's former governor, Howard Dean!" Then the Vermonters would blow horns, ring cow bells, shout, and generally act as if it were New Year's Eve. This would go on for fifteen or twenty minutes, then the chair would use the gavel repeatedly, calling for order. Once the Vermonters shut up, the chair would call on Arkansas and their spokesperson would extol the Razorbacks, the Ozarks, barbecue, their great native son Bill Clinton and finally cast their votes for Wesley Clark. (How did Vermont get to be before Arkansas? Simple, Vermont would work a deal with Alabama or Alaska to yield to Vermont. Unless Arkansas or another candidate's state thought of it first. Everyone was constantly working deals like that.)

After a couple of hours, the first ballot would be over, with all the candidates showing delegates on the board. If Kerry didn't have the votes he needed, there would have been a second ballot, with many delegates now being "free" to vote for Kerry instead of the candidate they were pledged to. If Kerry still didn't have the magic number, his campaign people would be working the non-Kerry delegates even harder. The Kerry people would be all over the floor, talking to delegates still voting for someone else. Read up on how JFK and LBJ battled it out in the 1960 convention.

Kerry won the nomination on the first ballot, with a relatively small number of delegates keeping their commitment to vote for Kucinich. Dennis campaigned through all the primaries, long after others had given up, and some of his supporters insisted on their right to cast a vote for him at the convention. Dean's supporters were loud and long in their applause for him the other night but nobody accused them of dividing the party, nor should they have. Sharpton got tremendous response last night and nobody worried about that, either.

Dennis gave a good strong speech about uniting behind Kerry. The party is more united than it's been in years. Let's not imagine problems, OK? We're in great shape in 2004!

I'm looking forward to great speeches tonight!

[never_get_over_it]

54. Exactly

I have been a Dem all my life 40+ years and I tell you I've never seen the party so united on a single mission. Dennis Kucinich and his supporters worked long and hard - there is a difference on issues between Kerry and Kucinich. Health care and the war for example - Dennis voted AGAINST the war Kerry DID NOT. And although Kerry is justifying that vote NOW or trying to - the people who believe in Dennis and worked hard for him had the right to their vote. Dennis stayed in the race until the end - the others did not. For God's sake it was 43 votes - 1% - do we want to be mindless robots like the repunks. There is no way anyone can say that 43 votes for Dennis and the rest for Kerry reflects a divided party.

[Kanary]

61. no more mindless robots

Today, on democracynow!, nichols made the point that when FDR was nominated, he was a much more conservative Democrat. The people of the party dragged him leftward, because they were passionate that the party *had* to address the depression. Where would we be if he had led as a conservative? We *MUST* be grateful for those who had the courage to continue to press him on the *real* issues!

If they had been too afraid, our country would likely never have known the New Deal, which saved a lot of people from the despair and death of poverty.

FEAR ENDS.

HOPE BEGINS.

Kanary

[eridani]

71. FDR's main platform plank was a balanced budget, ferchrissakes!

He was amenable to being pushed by labor and all kinds of community interest groups. Eleanor was much more radical than he was, and when she presented her ideas to him, he always told her something to the effect of "Sounds good. Now go out and find a constituency to make me do it." She did, they did, and he responded.

That's what Kucitizens and Deaniacs and others will be doing to President Kerry. No one's going back to sleep like so many did in 1992.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. I'm surprised that the usual Dennis-bashers

haven't shown up on this thread yet.

I almost miss them. :-)

[redqueen]

59. I was sooooooo delighted to see votes for Kucinich at the convention

It warmed my heart that at least THAT many Democratic delegates cared more about sending a message to the party bosses about their drift toward corporate bootlicking and unending war for profit than sending a unity message to repuke spin masters.

The repubs are in control because of the recent rash of wishy-washy follow-the-current-trend-toward-corporate-one-party-rule type Democrats.


Anyone have the Jon Stewart quote about Democrats? How they're always standing up for what they should have done?

[Solly Mack]

63. I know. I cheered . I was hoping some would and then they did

there's still hope.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. The party is divided - the votes just acknowledged the truth.

Kerry needs to come up with a workable plan to free Iraq, instead of the "me too" one he has offered.

[genius]

66. Only in fascism do you you see unanimous votes for candidates

Often our great Presidents were made it no sooner than the third ballot. This is the beauty of Democracy. When we suppress, we lose all the greatness to which we aspire and become totalitarians.

There is no doubt, even among a great many Kerry delegates that Dennis would make the better President. Kerry's war record will help him against George Bush and that's why he's there. His presence at the convention has little or nothing to do with his political stances.

Dennis has shown that he stands for something more important that obvious electability. So don't suppress greatness. Be proud that people in our party had the courage to vote for someone as great as Dennis.

[genius]

67. If Kerry screws us, I'll be one of the first in line to throw him out.

I have courage. I'd like to see more people on this board with courage.

[GreenPartyVoter]

70. I think there is more courage on this board than in the Congress

Still, it would be nice to see folks standing up here to say that "If Kerry doesn't cut it, he has to go". I'm all for giving him a chance, but I'm also keen to aim high, ya know?

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[no name no slogan]

72. What's "disappointing" about doing the job you were elected to do?

The Kucinich delegates were ELECTED by their state convention delegates to represent them at the national convention. Therefore, it is their JOB to perform the will of the delegates who elected them.

Voting for Kucinich for the nomination on the first ballot does NOT show disunity-- did Ted Kennedy's delegates in 1980 not support Carter in the GE? How about Bradley's delegates in 2000? Or Paul Simon's or Dick Gephardt's delegates in 1988?

Apparently a little "democracy" scares the hell out of many "Democrats" this year. It's truly amazing how much the Bush Fear Agenda has dominated our primary campaigns, our candidates, our delegates, our platform, and even our convention.

This party may be "united", but it's the enforced unification of FEAR and DOUBT. For being so sure of itself this election, this party seems hopelessly dominated by BushCo and their hate-filled agenda.

This is a truly dark moment for this party. One that history surely will not forget.

[LWolf]

73. Not even close.

Those delegates are backing Kerry in the general election. They aren't campaigning for Dennis, who won't even be on the ballot. And if you paid attention, you noticed that they made their commitment to Kerry in the general election firm and clear.

What is a more pointed modeling of the democratic process than voting for the candidate you came representing?