What do you think of the atmosphere here at DU?

[Gothic Sponge]

[slackmaster]

Smells like Chlorox

Or maybe that's my toilet bowl cleaner working.

[Hutzpa]

61. I smell bleach! which is which?

:evilfrown:

[swag]

1. not enough goths

[MichaelHarris]

16. goth

chicks are kinda hot but sometimes when you see goth guys you just wanna beat um up.

Kidding :)

[UTUSN]

20. LOL LOL LOL, First 3 Posts. n/t

[swag]

22. Well, yeah

Siouxsie Sioux (ex-punk proto-goth, just to be more precise than usual), was always a lot hotter and more credible than Robert Smith, who would probably be fun to hit if you went into a steroid rage.

[MichaelHarris]

25. hahahahah

he's so skinny he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag with both ends open. Siouxsie was very hot. I'm gonna get flamed by skinny guys now aren't I?

[UdoKier]

26. Actually, Smith is petty pudgy.

He looks just like one of the little teennage mall goths you see now and then.

In fact one of his nicknames is "Fat Bob"

http://www.waningmoon.com/gothica/articles/6660058.shtml




Fascinating to me that people still cling to the goth look so long after it got boring. Then again, the "gangsta" look was boring 10 years ago and I still see a lot of that too...

(Yeah, yeah, I know, it's a philosophy, a lifestyle, something so much deeper than just a fad/clique/whatever....)

[MichaelHarris]

27. maybe I was thinkin of that

Black Crows guy. What did he weigh? like 67 pounds?

[UdoKier]

29. Chris Robinson - married to the foxy Kate Hudson

He's skinny but not exactly a goth... I don't really know how to categorize the Crowes' music - pothead blues-rock? I love'em though. Hell, The Cure are okay too.

[AntiCoup2K4]

32. Actually, before he grew the beard and tried to be a Southern rocker....

...Chris Robinson looked (and tried to sing like) the offspring of an unholy union of Mick Jagger & Rod Stewart.

[MichaelHarris]

33. he

scored big time, shes hot.

[0007]

38. All depends on your method of measuring temperature!

[Chovexani]

36. Fascinating to me that people still bash goths

With the same old tired crap. :eyes:

Yes, I'm a goth chick, and yes it really is a subculture. Really, how does it affect your life if people follow a particular lifestyle? Nobody's putting a gun to your head, making you wear pvc and frilly victorian clothes. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't bash other people simply because they have different taste in clothes and music.

Sorry for being snippy but it really pisses me off when people spout that crap. Especially people who are supposedly tolerant.

[Selwynn]

63. It is a sad shame.

I was frequently called a goth by others because I liked to wear make up (and looked better with it that most girls I know!) and dark clothes, had painted nails and a spikey collar amoung other things.

I represented no value system, just how I liked to dress - and I looked good. I would still do that, if I didn't work where I work.

I think its pretty sad that everyone somehow still thinks its ok to make fun of people for being different.

[UdoKier]

70. I never make fun of goths for being different.

I make fun of them for being the same. Unbelievably conformist in appearance actually.


Put in some fake buck teeth, put your hair in Pippi Longstocking braids, wear some MC Hammer pants and a pair of Ronald McDonald shoes, THEN you will be different. The way you are describing sounds just like every other goth.

[Swamp Rat]

80. HAHAHAHAHA!

"Pippi Longstocking braids... MC Hammer pants ... Ronald McDonal shoes"

THAT'S funny! Maybe you just gave me an idea for next Mardi Gras! :D

[UdoKier]

68. Bashing huh?

"Making fun of" is not the same as "bashing", and it's the overly serious, self-important attitude among goths that provokes it.

I don't care if you're a goth, a 50's-style square, a country shitkicker, a "modern primitive" implanting horns under your scalp, or just a suburbanite in corporate "Gap" clothes. If you think that your little clique is somehow more profound or original or deep than the other ones , you deserve a shot or two now and then. All human "subcultures" are a way of grasping for an identity mask to wear when the one on the inside isn't well-defined enough.

It's fascinating to me that people still cling to superficial conformist fads.

"Nobody's putting a gun to your head, making you wear pvc and frilly victorian clothes. "

Nobody's putting a gun to your head telling you not to. Enjoy. I'm sure your clothes are much more stylish than the cheap, boring junk I wear. I don't have the time or the money to trifle with things like fashion. I have nothing against goth music or the goth pose. But that's all it is. The same with heavy metal, hip-hop, any other artificial cultural and musical division we're supposed to pigeonhole ourselves into. We're all human, and we all have the same problems and feelings, whether we acknowledge it or not, and in 100 years or so we will all be the same identical dust.

[swag]

77. Sorry, I hadn't meant to bash any goths

But look who started the thread.

I was just semi-free associating on that.

No disrespect intended.

Yet I reserve the right to comment on group and individual characteristics.

[UdoKier]

81. Upon rereading the thread - noticed there was some "bashing" there.

It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, no doubt, but I don't normally like to joke about kicking in people's teeth. It's just not funny.


There might be an exception clause for Hannity, O'Liely and Limpballs, though...

[Selwynn]

64. Or maybe we look like we look because we want to...

..and not for whatever you think about it?

[UdoKier]

74. I think no more or less of it than any other clique.

And I'm sure that it is more about conforming and fitting in with goth peers than it is about shocking "mainstream" society. Why would the mainstream be shocked by something a lot of us already got bored of back in the 80s? Even Marilyn Manson barely raises an eyebrow anymore. Amazing that he ever did, since half of his schtick was lifted from the Thrill Kill Kult and Alice Cooper.

Human beings, like our simian counterparts, never tire of mimicry. Hell, I'm probably mimicking someone as I type this now. The exercise of typing it is stimulating, but I certainly know better than to fancy myself an intellectual just because I strung a few thoughts together.

[bhunt70]

2. I like the mix, from the far left to the conservative dems

good ideas all around.

[bobthedrummer]

5. I also like the mix and community here.

:hi:

[no name no slogan]

3. Almost repressive

Especially if you happen to mention that all is not rosy in conventionland. Even after many credible references are sited, you are still attacked for being a "republican" or an "agitator".

Allah forbid anybody p!ss on the parade by pointing out that Dems are people too. :eyes:

[leyton]

4. Indeed.

I find that while there is plenty of good discussion, many hear automatically dismiss anything that is not 100% pro-Kerry, pro-Democrats, whatever, even if it's true. I do spend a lot of my time arguing with people here, usually playing devil's advocate, and I wonder every time if I'll be banned.

[bryant69]

11. You may not believe this

But as a moderate Democrat (which I assume Conservative Democrat is the new term for (which I think is crap, but what do I know)) I go through the same problems on other issues. Saying for example that you don't believe LIHOP or MIHOP can cause quite a considerable amount of negative feedback.

On the other hand I don't get the impression that the moderators are Ban happy.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[UdoKier]

12. To me it seems more PC.

I guess because I'm very much a partisan democrat, I don't have that problem. I'm 100% behind the dems and Kerry and am content to wait until they are in a position of power to try and push them more to the left, particularly on labor/progressive tax issues.

I think the tolerance of varying opinions on gender/choice issues etc. is rather narrow. Some people make a hobby of being offended. I don't even necessarily disagree with their opinions, but I don' think that every innocuous thread should be shut down because one posted decides that it "promotes a stereotype".

We stereotype the right all the time. Stereotypes exist because we see people who fit them all the time. I don't see them as inherently evil - only an idiot thinks that ALL (fill in the blank) are a given way.

Well, except for the stereotype about ALL Bush supporters being lying, unpatriotic morons. That one is totally true! :P


Oh and for the record, I think the actual ideological mix is just fine. A good mix from the center to the far left.

[necso]

62. I agree.

DU is a PC place. Personally, I think that both DU and the Party as a whole are way too PC.

Being PC is an affectation. It is about form and not substance. It is about making undue effort to manage appearances, not solve actual problems.

Being PC keeps us from having frank open discussion, distorts our sense of perspective and proportion and makes us appear weak, "out of touch" and soft. It also gives the "right" a weapon of our own making to belabor us with, often with effect. (And you can just hear their laughter when they do so!)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. The fact is, the story you were spreading was false.

We all saw with our eyes hundreds of Sharpton signs, Kucinich signs, and pro-peace messages. The story you were spreading was untrue.




If you consider it 'repressive' when someone points out that what you are saying is not true, so be it.

[no name no slogan]

44. Quit calling me out

You know damn well that I pointed to something that happened on MONDAY, which was at least a day before Sharpton's or Kucinich's speeches. Not only that, it was backed up by THREE different independent sources.

But apparently you refuse to believe anything that has not been previously "approved" by the Kerry campaign (much like signs that go onto the convention floor, I suppose), so you continue to repeat the meme that the only "dissenters" at the convention must be lying.

God, I bet you were a lot of fun in the McCarthy era. You and Humphrey and Bobby Kennedy would have had a blast kissing ol' Joe's butt.

It's amazing how sometimes people you think are on your side can be your worst enemies. Unfreakingbelievable.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. Okay, I'll call you out then...

....name your three sources.

You have a real funny way of proving you're on our side.

[OKNancy]

21. Pointing out that Dems are people too

is just fine. Openly advocating voting for someone besides Kerry is not.

Credible references are in the eye of the beholder.

This website, as stated in the rules, backs Kerry as the only person who can defeat George Bush. If a poster doesn't like Kerry, loathes Kerry, wishes another candidate were the nominee or is generally hateful to that cause, then they should expect to be "repressed"
( your term, not mine).

Freedom of speech works both ways. Those of us who like the rules here, like Kerry and like our party have the freedom to disagree with you.

[no name no slogan]

47. I never said a word about not backing Kerry

However, I do have a problem with the campaign's strongarm tactics when it comes to duly-elected party delegates expressing their opinion on the floor.

It's bad enough we're all busy whitewashing things some party bigwig thinks will "alienate" conservatives (like Al-Jazeera's sign on their broadcast booth), but it's EVEN WORSE when the signs delegates have are NOT ALLOWED on the floor, based solely on the whim of one candidate's campaign-- BEFORE that candidate was even officially endorsed!

On Monday, Kerry was NOT YET the endorsed party candidate, despite what his campaign or any other campaigns said. There was still that sticky matter of the actual VOTE by the convention delegates. That's a little like not having an election because the polls say that one candidate has the race locked up. It's un-American, and un-Democratic (AND un-"democratic" too!).

But apparently debate about tactics employed by the representatives of the (as not yet officially endorsed) candidate can't be discussed, either-- unless they're those of the eventual victor, that is.

:shrug:

[DaveFL99]

45. I don't like being accused of being a freeper

just because I think we'll lose if we don't change the campaign.

[no name no slogan]

67. I'm not calling ANYONE a Freeper

I just think it's ironic that we beat up Shrub for his quashing of dissent, yet we cannot tolerate a diversity of opinions (and its display) at our very own CONVENTION.

And that's exactly what it is, a CONVENTION. Not a coronation. It's the DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S CONVENTION, which includes supporters of all presidential candidates. That means no candidate's staff should be able to dictate the rules of the floor, regardless of how many potential delegate votes s/he has.

Our founding fathers rightfully feared a "tyranny of the majority", and created checks and balances in our government to prohibit it from happenning. Just because Dubya and Co. ignore them does not mean we should, either.

[Selwynn]

65. Everyone deserves a reprive from non-stop endless attacks.

This is our week for that reprieve, and I have no problem asking people doing little else but posting every critical comment they can think of under the sun just to be an agitator to shut the fuck up for one week every four years. This is my time to be happy and enjoy something. I'm not going to apologize for have next to know tolerance for hopeless negativism the last few days or the rest of this week.

Feel free to pick up the same old attacks next week.

[NoPasaran]

6. I could use a tad more oxygen

Feeling a little light headed today.

[Endangered Specie]

7. Could use more CO

(j/k)

[gratuitous]

8. Far, far too many trolls

It's like we just tore out a wall that had an infestation of cockroaches inside it. All the Freep types scurrying around trying to tell us not to believe our lying eyes. Some of them are pretty obvious, and the moderators do a good job of eliminating them tout de suite.

Others are more subtle, playing a variety of roles, but all designed to distract, divide and deter people from taking care of Job One: Removing the current blight from the White House.

[neoteric lefty]

9. I truly love DU,

and I respect most my fellow people here at DU. Yet, sometimes I feel that some like to "jump on" the moderate voices here. I can't think of any examples right now, its more of a general thing. It is the exception rather the rule but I still see it sometimes.

[69KV]

10. Dems are the big tent party

And rightly so. I like the mix. I have found that so called "conservative Democrats" are usually old-school liberals and Truman Democrats, the centrists are people who understand how politics works and the need for pragmatism, and the so called "far left" are staunch pro-labor, pro-environment, pro-peace people who have important points. Dems are raucous by nature but in the end, we have a lot more in common than different. One look at, say, free republic makes that clear to me. One look was all I could stomach.

[Bread and Circus]

13. It's kind of boring now. During the primaries the "debate" was so fun.

[demnan]

14. Whew!!!

You call that fun? Hope you're not my doctor :evilgrin:

[Bread and Circus]

39. That's so funny. I get so many "hope you're not my doctor" replies...

on DU just because my opinion differs than theirs.

Makes me want to tell DU'ers STFU already! What gives people the right to insult another person's professional credentials based on a Political forum board?

Here's my Resume

High School Honor Student
ACT score 28
Graduated 3rd in My Class at a State University with a 3.92 GPA
MCAT scores 13 97th %ile / 13 97th %ile language / 11 87% percentile
Went to UCSF in SF CA top 10 med school in Country
Family Practice Residency in Maine, worked 100 hrs /wk for 3 years.
Board certified, 87th % ile on on board exams.
Solo practice in hometown, an underserved area, when I could have done any specialty I want in any big city.
Voted 2003 "primary care doctor of the year" by my community.
Daily get personal referrals because I am so nice, respectful, and thorough.
Don't allow drug reps in my office.

What more can I do? Frankly, I get so pissed off at the ad hominem attacks here just because I am a doctor and also because I don't spew the party line on everything. Excuse me but I'm not a robot and I'm a different kind of Democrat.

Yuck. :mad:

[Bread and Circus]

40. P.S. Sorry I am human.

[sadiesworld]

83. What an outrageous rant in response to a simple joke. n/t

[never_get_over_it]

17. That's kind of funny to me

I have been on DU since April 2001 - and DELIBERATELY stayed away during primary season because I didn't want to pop a vein....lol

[MichaelHarris]

15. the atmosphere is fine except when

Matcom eats beans for dinner

[Screaming Lord Byron]

19. We have quite a few paranoid people.

Understandable, really.

[Donkeyboy75]

34. What? What? Are you talking about me? Huh?

You must be a Freeper mole!

I'm hitting alert!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

49. Did someone say something?

[Kong]

23. Choking In Freepers

There have been so many snide remarks about decent Democrats and outright hostility to the ideals of the Democratic Party that I get made at the moderators. There have been hundreds of posts here that should have been deleted and hundreds of people posting here who's poosting ability sould have been revoked.

[ellie]

24. I, for one, enjoy

reading the various conspiracy theories that are posted on DU. Not only are they informative, I believe they contain kernals of truth. I don't believe everything but I try to keep an open mind. Long live DU!

[dissention]

28. Besides for the fact

that I was practically assaulted when I made one critical comment about Obama, I like it here. I'm a far-lefty, so it feels like home.

It caught me rather off-guard when I was denounced as a freeper for saying that I thought Obama was grandstanding. I wish we oculd leave the freeper tactics of personal attacks at the Free Republic.

[UdoKier]

30. He probably was grandstanding. So what?

A convention speech is a great chance for an up-and-comer to make a mark. Clinton made an indelible one in 1988. His speech was memorable for being long-winded, and that became one of hius favorite self-deprecating anecdotes on the campaign trail.

[rucky]

31. it'll ease up when your post count goes up

some folks are a bit wary of feriners in these here parts.

bienviedos a DU!

[LSdemocrat]

35. Other - Too many absolutist ideologues

[DemExpat]

37. I generally like the mix........DU is still my favorite place on the Web.

I love hearing all sorts of views and feelings about a subject, as long as there are rules of respect to go by.

DemEx

[Gothic Sponge]

41. Afternoon Kick

[DaveFL99]

43. but I get so sick of hearing Kumbaya.

and getting pounced on 'casue I think we're gonna lose.

[JayS]

42. Smells like Teen Spirit

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. It's a little tense these days cause we are all frantic about getting *

out.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[DaveFL99]

48. Not Frantic

I think it's depressing that we're not 15 points ahead.

[Jacobin]

50. I'm amazed at all the pro-war people here

The naivete is incredible.

Otherwise, I find the differing points of view stimulating and educational.

[Selwynn]

60. Pro-war people? I've not run into that. What are you refering to?

[bigwillq]

51. I like the mix

Diversity is the spice in this country's (and DU's) sauce.

[ulysses]

52. always been a good mix

Without the conservatives, who would I yell at? :D

[FlaGranny]

53. I don't much like the atmosphere around here any more

so I rarely post. The mix of ideologies is fine, but I find I don't like it here as much I used to and I've been here as long as the site has been in existence. Too many hotheads and too many stealth agitators.

[Selwynn]

59. Do you have alternative communities that you visit?

And if so, what are they? I ask only as a curious interested party.

[Dissenting_Prole]

54. Too many peeps around here think that voting Dem...

is going to change anything.

The wars for the last supplies of oil on the planet are going to continue.

Peak oil is going to come home to bite North Americans on the ass.

Your civil rights will continue to erode.

And that's the best-case scenario. Right now the Bush administration is looking for a way to keep the throne they have built. They worked too hard just to hand it over to Kerry.

[Selwynn]

58. Then why even bother to post?

What motivates you?

[ibegurpard]

55. Too many authoritarian arrogant assholes.

Political persuasion has very little to do with it.

[Beloved Citizen]

56. "Conservative Democrat" defined

Anyone who would criticize this year's Reform Party candidate for president.

[Selwynn]

57. there are too many "counter-revolutionary crypto-fascist ideologues."

As someone said to me today - people with all or nothing thinking here to do little but attack the party in order to tear it down, not to work towards real change or a brighter tomorrow.

Other than that, its great. :)

[DoNotRefill]

66. I voted other...generally I like the mix, but...

there are some complete and total lunatic-fringe tinfoilhatters here which I suspect are either trolls trying to make us look bad as a party or are people who managed to get internet access from inside their asylums.

[Zomby Woof]

69. clear to partly cloudy

With a chance of showers at nightfall.

[Syrinx]

71. regionalism and elitism

that is all

[Nevernose]

76. Definitely agree w/ you about regionalism

I'm not sure exactly what you mena by "elitism" but I suspec that I may agree.

[Syrinx]

78. I guess I'm talking about the mocking of poor people

The Democratic party is all about protecting the interests of the poor and working class. And so many people mock the poor.

There was a post here a few weeks ago that summed up the regionalism and elitism that I'm speaking of. It was about the Clinton book, and a certain "progressive" said something about it selling in the south, but that they're only using it to wipe their asses in the outhouse. Pathetic.

[Dem2theMax]

72. I'm brand new here. Lurked for about a month

before jumping in a few days ago. I'm happy to have found a place where brains are actually required for reading and posting.
I've learned so much in the past month. Also learned about how little I actually know. So I'm here for the education and the wonderful people.

The atmosphere smells like chocolate to me. (That's probably how I found this place! lol) :)

[Aidoneus]

73. Increasingly myopic and fascistic, actually

the "mix" doesn't so much interest me as such tendencies do.

[vision]

79. I miss some of the liberal voices

I have been here quite awhile, (early 2001} and sometimes get depressed at the lack of some liberal voices. I have lived most of my life in Kansas and/or Missouri so I enjoy the chance to hear more than the conservative side all the time.

My work schedule is a little weird so I may miss much that is driven off the first page. I loved many of the speeches this past week though :)

[Swamp Rat]

82. I love DU the way it is... constantly in flux.

A lot of folks at DU are more "conservative" than I, but I like the mix.