To the "Holding-My-Nose" contingent: Are the nosepins still there?

[WilliamPitt]

[Kitka]

<<<taking my clothespin off slowly>>> and taking a breath. wow.

[Chovexani]

1. Mine's in the trash can!

Can we make him president NOW?! :)

GO KERRY!!

[NMDemDist2]

2. they are starting to see the light Will

hehehehe :bounce:

[thebigidea]

3. this guy is GOOD. I'm feeling pretty sheepish about doubting him...

... but more than that, I'm finally hopeful.

[TNMOM]

45. He DID give the speech of his career

Wow. Kerry's the man.

[lojasmo]

179. Yeah, before congress in 1973, IIRC N/T

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freetobegay]

18. I forgot that name what is it?

:evilgrin:

[Dookus]

30. it was

People for Losing Elections or some such thing...

[Kahuna]

53. They've sent out the bat call to freep Kerry speech polls already.

:crazy:

[Dookus]

ROFL...

what a sad little circle-jerk

[calimary]

110. I think it's the Real Sore Loserman Site.

[madfloridian]

216. "Sore Loserman site". Way to go for unity.

This is a lovely thread.

[fujiyama]

141. That place

is sad and pathetic but I noticed one or two posters that were impressed with the speech.

[Pithlet]

180. I kind of feel bad for them.

Others at IHateDUSoBadI'mFoamingAtTheMouthAndCan'tStopTalkingAboutIt.com are piling on them, while in other threads saying about how dissent isn't allowed at DU, without a hint of irony.

We really shouldn't give that site any more publicity, though.

[Pithlet]

181. Damn, I can't edit.

"Saying" should be "Talking. Edit orphan.

[Capn Sunshine]

207. Hey , you know, this is almost as good as "spelling our name right"

Those of you who don't know what's up , keep reading.
BTW the commentary on the front page is awesome. What an incredible editor they must have :evilgrin:

[Pithlet]

224. Well

since I'm not sure if the ban in effect is still here, I thought I'd be cautious :evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

215. I think this is out of line.

.

[madfloridian]

217. Way to go for unity. This is out of line IMHO

.

[tishaLA]

222. I agree with you

[mzmolly]

212. It's a place where about 5-10 people gather to spew pessimism and

Kerry sucksism from what I hear?

Granny D gave a speech recently about "Narcissistic Leftists" who like to hear themselves pontificate and claim their "precious values" supercede human life. I was reminded of a couple people who post at that message board.

I am surprised it's still afloat really, as I heard most people tired of it rather quickly.

I am certain they are desperate for members though, as I hear virtually everyone has stopped posting there (which might explain the need to bring up the website - uhm here?) ;)

I am truly glad they banned me long ago because I saw what was coming and tried to prevent it and preserve it's potential.

Oh well, most of the posters there still post here, though some under assumed names I imagine?

[madfloridian]

218. et tu, mzmolly

Making fun is not good for this party.

[mzmolly]

221. Not making fun, expressing my disappointment for what might have been is

all.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. Thank goodness they have that place to go to

it smells better here without 18 year old self proclaimed "communists" who can't bear to go without their MCDonald's or Jeep Cherokees :eyes:

[Zomby Woof]

80. best reply of the week

[DustMolecule]

223. ehm, didn't you say earlier today that you drive a Suburban or something??

I was pretty surprised at that. (Unless you have 8+ kids to tote around - then I could understand!)

[Djinn]

96. Never had one

not being a US citizen, if I were I would have always voted for whoever WASN'T Bush but I'd be uneasy about it and I still would be.

As for the ref's to the place that can't be mentioned being a circle jerk - have you SEEN the GD it's been nothing but a intra-love fest for days??!!??

and although I shouldn't even dignify "it smells better here without 18 year old self proclaimed "communists" who can't bear to go without their MCDonald's or Jeep Cherokees" with a response I will mention that it's the same line all our local right wing talkback hosts used about the anti-WTO protests, it was bullshit when they used it and it still is.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

104. I was commenting on a specific person who CLAIMS

to identify as a communist who was very adamant about his Jeep Chrokee and very critical of anyone who dared point out the horrific global business practices of his sacred McDonald's when posting here....not some generic person...it's easy enough to find him on the thread...hehe..and he had the nerve to call all of US hypocrites

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andromeda]

107. Word.

:nopity:

[Djinn]

112. ? (nt)

[Zomby Woof]

118. implying NSMA uses RW talking points

Is ballsy, but a very asinine move. Good luck.

[Djinn]

125. I've never found

saying anything on a message board requires courage but I can't speak for anyone else. Maybe they've had sheltered lives.

BTW I didn't imply anything I said that the "communists who love McDonalds" line is heavilly used by those wanting to discredit WTO protestors, I can't help it if someone else wants to use it.

Don't think luck is needed here.

[JohnKleeb]

122. haha

good one NSMA.

[Guaranteed]

194. JIC you didn't know, Dean was the most REALISTIC

of ALL of our candidates.

Guess that one never occurred to you, though.

[Old and In the Way]

40. Just checked it out.

The biggie thread:

I'm watching the DNC now
Kerry sucks.

6 responses.

[lojasmo]

178. That speech was a load of pablum.

Kerry is a good man who has capitulated to the right to remain electable. That speech, while a good "introduction" to John Kerry, was full of trite, good sounding fluff.

I expected more, and I was disappointed.

Oh well. Like I said in that post over there....If the speech convinced anybody to vote for Kerry, that's a good thing. I'll be voting for him, though my clothespin is still on, Will.

[Arianrhod]

189. I don't see where anything has changed.

Kerry has tried taking a swipe at * now and then, but then he returns to lurk mode and passes up dozens of opportunities to really pin the guy to the ground. * has had scandal after scandal come to light, and where has Kerry been? Not a word from him. He could've dealt the entire regime a death blow if he had taken them fully to task for Abu Ghraib, Haliburton, and Fallujah. He should've been calling for their heads.

To those who think that's not politically expedient, I respond that I don't want a president who is dependent on political expediency.

I didn't think that much of his speech. After all, it was only a campaign speech--given under the most favorable of circumstances. When the firing line was open, when * was struggling in the polls, Kerry sat back and watched--when he should have pounced.

I read a lot of militarism in his acceptance speech. I don't like his reference to "America at war"--we aren't at war; I don't like his calling for 40,000 more troops. I didn't like his Iraq vote, or his backpedaling excuse after it looked like a liability.

Now, if he had said, "First step in Iraq is to pull Haliburton out"--well, I might have sat up and taken notice. If he had said, "We will hold immediate Iraq elections, so that the PEOPLE can choose their leaders"--I might have listened. Instead, he's still hoping the UN will go in and clean up the mess they begged us not to make in the first place. Seems like misplaced hope to me.

But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm asking for too much. I realize there are political realities out there, and perhaps Kerry's tactics are just that: Tactics, meant to draw as many votes as possible. I certainly hope so.

Bottom line is, we need to get rid of *, first and foremost. If I can't have Dean or Kucinich do it, I'll take Kerry. But please, don't anyone ask me to remove my clothespin. I haven't been suitably impressed yet.

[formernaderite]

198. Agreed....I've added a second clothespin....

...the whole DNC was a little too repub-lite for me. Sorry to those excited and happy by it, and I do realize it was constructed this way to appeal to the mushy middle. I disliked the constant flag waving, the war on terror bs, the reporting for duty line etc. It all made my skin crawl.
I'll vote for Kerry, and the democrats...but I'm not happy.

[Pithlet]

47. I wonder

if they were watching the same speech? Or maybe they were watching it with their fingers in their ears singing "Lalalalallaa! I can't hear you!"

[JNelson6563]

199. Oh the irony! (and other comments)

Ok, I've read this section of the thread and the first thing I'd like to do is note the irony. I notice much of the whining about the "vicious" other place is done by some of those who were the most vicious wretches in GD04. Ok, that aside.....

The other place has a mix of people. There are Democrats and Independents. The dialogue ain't as splendid as many there seem to think but at least there is the freedom to mention any place on the internet.

As a Democrat who has worked very hard to affect the overthrow of the fascist regime I have to say I am not all that pleased with the direction the unmentionable board has taken. I am thoroughly disgusted that there are actually people who would rather see Bush win (resulting in countless deaths of brwon skinned people far away so they are safe) just to make the point they don't like Kerry.

Then again, here I see childish scorn heaped on any who do not fall right into line completely. I see some of the most vicious posters here heralded as some kind of greatness and I find that sad.

Of course in both places I see nasty little spiteful swipes at each other which tells me neither place has a whole lot over the other.

Just a dose of reality for ya'll.

Julie

[Capn Sunshine]

203. I might just add

That other place has a mix of activists and keyboard commandoes, like her , and many of the pro Kerry faction are actually OUT DOING stuff instead of responding to the childish takes of the hard core Naderites. At least that's the case with me and Julie. Fighting fascism is a job that entails speaking to power in BOTH parties, and warm fuzzy feeling that Kerry might be the answer is no excuse to stop fighting for the cause.

Dialog is important , and if the shit comes down these folks will be on the same side of the barricades ,and excluding them like is routinely done in places that seek a "unified voice" might work well for that great reverb in the echo chamber, but it isn't going to get you any closer to motivating the 50% who don't vote because they've had it with both parties to come out and throw in with your campaign.

Unless you're willing to listen. Many here have conclusively demonstrated that is not an option here.

Now back to your regularly scheduled echo chamber.
:nuke:

[Capn Sunshine]

204. It looks pretty balanced to me

Unlike some places that don't allow non dems a chance to post.
Don't miss the front page commentary.

[htuttle]

5. Sniff, sniff

Well, it ain't patchouli, but I can live with it.

:)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

6. I completely totally

took my clothespin off when his daughters spoke. It pushed me right over the edge. I was already going to vote for him, but DAYUM.

[Birthmark]

7. No, no it's not.

My apologies to Sen. Kerry and his supporters. He is clearly the best man for the job; not the lesser of two evils. I was dead wrong...and I'm happy to say it.

[Blue-Jay]

8. heh heh heh heh

Our Will loves a good gloat, doesn't he?

:D

[WilliamPitt]

14. Not gloating

Curious about the reaction.

[Blue-Jay]

49. Riiiight!

A good journalist rarely asks a question without already suspecting the answer.

Hey, I just made that up. Could be total bullshit, but it sounded like something Yoda would say, grammar notwithstanding.

[Northwind]

149. You heartless gloaters!

:)

[Longhorn]

9. Smells pretty darn SWEET to me!

But I've been on board for awhile.

[Selwynn]

10. I can believe in that. :)

[w13rd0]

11. Oh screw you...

...he's done an excellent job, and he's certainly hit all the right notes. Not all of us have the priv of sitting down for private strategy sessions with the candidates.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Screw me?

Why? Seriously, why?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. He's saying you were so correct,he'd like to make sure you get some

:evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

36. Ah

I thought I did something wrong. :evilgrin:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. I think we should all go have sex now

when I am in the presence of that much passion, I get really horny! :D

[Lizz612]

65. I'm not alone then!

Good politics seem to get me all hot and bothered....

[TheWraith]

126. Ah...

So that's what it is! I thought it was just the sight of all those cute smart Democratic women at the convention that made me feel this way. Maybe it's the adrenaline of watching such great speeches.

The conventioneers must be having fun right now...

[JohnKleeb]

121. but who will have sex with me

Maybe I could go up and ask Natalie Portman or Cate Edwards or Alexandra Kerry out, Alex is the brunette right :).

[KittyWampus]

12. I'll Be Honored To Vote For John Kerry

[blm]

13. The rteal test - Did they take me off their ignore list.

heheh

[JohnKleeb]

24. hah

hey, you should feel damn good, youre the one who made me in to a big Kerry fan along with the other original Kerry supporters, curse10, libertychick, and the many others. Thank you. Many didnt believe you when you said what youve said about Kerry but it turned out to be all true. This is gonna be the most progressive president in ages.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. I can relate

;)

[JohnKleeb]

37. forgot about you man

you original kerry supporters were right about him.

[TeacherCreature]

208. just to let you know

It's possible to ignore people without the software.

[Old and In the Way]

50. I'll never say "I told you so",

to you blm.....cuz you knew all along.

:-)

And 4 years of John Kerry will change a lot of people's minds on his ability to deliver a progressive and liberal agenda. I am soooo psyched for November!

[no name no slogan]

160. I sincerely truly hope so

because some of the actions of those around the party bigwigs have been quite cavalier at this convention.

I know that John Kerry is better than the handlers he has, who seem hell-bent on making him into a Republican. His record belies their talking points. He's a solid liberal who will do good for the country.

However, some of the BS dealt by the DNC and the higher-ups in the campaign have been very hard to swallow for this peacenik pacifist who values peace and justice over political promises. It certainly will not bode well for some of the state-based social justice groups, who are Kerry's for the asking.

[Jacobin]

15. sounding good to me.

Great speech. Knocked them dead.

I've been the owner of a nose pin and am glad to say its safely stowed in my pocket.

Looking forward to throwing it away

[Cleita]

16. Not to be a cold water dumper, but I think he is going

to have to be protected from now on from being Wellstoned. I am serious. The darkside have to be weighing their options now. I remember Bobby Kennedy being murdered on live TV.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. As do I

and I don't doubt their desperation as of tonight...Gore TRIED to be populist...Kerry IS.

[malatesta1137]

103. I would start

flying commercial airliners instead. but then look what happened on 9/11.

The Bush Crime Family will try a John Hinckley on Kerry, write that down.

[donco6]

62. Sadly, I was thinking about that all night

from the minute he walked in, couldn't help but remember Bobby.

[nannah]

83. especially after noticed stern faced security guy behind him

what a job to protect someone in a big crowd.

John Kerry is inspiring!!!!!!!!!

[Dover]

111. The real problem now for the GOP is that they have lost support within the

military and that's a VERY VERY serious matter indeed. If they try anything, we may see a military coup or something else unprecedented.


The GOP has other problems too that would only be made worse if they or their corporate supporters attempted to off Kerry. They have little support from other countries and little support at home.
They have essentially painted themselves into a corner...they cannot succeed without a military and global partners, and a supportive populous. Three strikes and they are OUT!

[WindRavenX]

131. same here

...the zing about the Saudi Royal Family may have made him a target. I pray that this is just me being paranoid.

[Walt Starr]

17. ::::Walt Starr salutes Will Pitt::::

Turning in nose pin and reporting for duty, SIR!!!

[WilliamPitt]

26. :::Will Pitt salutes Walt Starr::::

:toast:

[molly]

56. OMG - Miracles happen and we have HOPE!!!

[fishnfla]

197. Well! The "non-transferable" vote has been conquered

Good for you, good for us. Now as the Magistrate would say.....Lets go get them Bush bastards!

[goobergunch]

225. *faints* (n/t)

[Mizmoon]

19. Hubby changed his mind

"You were right all along", he said to me.

Those words are sweet.

HOORAY JOHN KERRY! HOMERUN!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. It's off, but in my hand *l*

He's saying a lot of the right stuff. No doubt about it. And believe me, it's not a case of sour grapes at all, just that Dennis was closer to my way of thinking on most issues.

Doesn't make Kerry a bad guy at all, and I am thrilled that he is gonna kick *'s butt and clean up this country. No doubt about it. AND, I think he will pave the way for a Dennis to get into the White House one day. I do think that. :)

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

42. You are in good company

Dennis was actually WAY closer for me on most issues (and I was a Dean supporter, figure that out!), but I am on board with Kerry now!!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. Yep, we'll all follow Kerry to the polls, no question.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[BurtWorm]

74. Well said, GreenPartyDem!

[BurtWorm]

81. I went from lukewarm to warm.

Not bad for someone starting at cool on Kerry two springs ago, who was brackish even a couple of months ago and tepid for most of the summer. I was encouraged by his care to mention women's rights (though not a word about right to choose), civil rights, his positive statement--and evident pride--about the 1960s peace and civil rights movement changing the world. Disappointments: No mention of Iran-Contra; no acknowledgment of gays and lesbians; no overt statement about IWR (despite the oblique mention about "nuance"); despite all the talk of faith, not the least bit of acknowledgment of atheism (he took a step backwards, in my opinion. But he did make me feel better about voting for him as an alternative to that useless Bush asshole who's infesting the WH now.

[fujiyama]

142. Being athiest/agnostic

I thought he did great on that point. He made it clear that he wouldn't wear religion on his sleeve. This is something Lieberman himself wouldn't do four years ago and it annoyed some Jewish groups as well as more secular people.

He also made a commitment toward scientific research.

[BurtWorm]

152. And he did quote Lincoln's brilliant remark about praying

we're on the side of God. I'll give him that. (Some atheists believe Lincoln was one of us, and his reference to god are some sort of code for Nature. He was probably a Deist, in any case.) I still find it disappointing when politicians--especially Democratic ones--pointedly refuse to include the faithless among the faithful. It's infantile. Or infantilizing.

[Pastiche423]

21. No nosepin here

[Amaya]

22. My expectations have been blown to pieces!

WOW!

[ulysses]

27. no clothespin

No expectations until we see something either.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. As it should be

[ulysses]

54. I suppose.

.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. Promises without listeners holding them accountable aren't promises

and we need to give him a congress to work with at least by 06..we've got LOADS of work to do.

[ulysses]

64. it's hard to gear up some days.

Clinton had a Congress with which to work for his first two years.

But yes, we have a great deal of work to do in order to make up for the things that the fucking party centrists have pissed away.

[kiahzero]

79. Clinton was also no liberal. (n/t)

[ulysses]

85. that's certainly true. n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

105. Don't blame me, I voted for Bradley in that one

[bpilgrim]

187. but he sounded like one

especially at the conventions ;->

worked for him :bounce:

peace

[TeacherCreature]

209. and Neither is Kerry

Not anymore. I will wait and see what he does if he gets elected. But I do plan to be in overdrive protesting the war if it continues.

[Kenneth ken]

97. truer words were never spoken, nsma

personally, as long as the DLC has any influence on the party, I will never be a happy Democrat; but that's just me.

Clinton had a Democratic-controlled congress his first two years, and I wasn't impressed at all with what he accomplished in that time.

[LWolf]

29. Not holding my nose.

I'm satisfied.

I am intrigued by many of the things he had to say. Without going into specifics, I would say that those campaigners who worked to help shape the message got some of what they worked for; and he did it without compromising his own pov in any way. I heard some of what I worked for. That could mean that he really does listen. Things are looking up!

[trof]

31. No need. No clothespin.

ABB to Kerry.
Just waiting for the decision.

[unfrigginreal]

33. Who was that guy?

Best speech and delivery I've seen from Kerry. Good job. :thumbsup:

[doctorbombeigh]

185. That was the guy who beat Bill Weld, a better candidate that year. n/t

[FlaGranny]

35. Nah,

Kerry's too stiff, Edwards smiles too much, and Sharpton talks too much. ONLY KIDDING!

Actually, I think I've watched nearly every convention since I was a kid. I can't remember one as good as this one - inspiring.

[dumpster_baby]

Nose Pin firmly in place.... n/t

[JohnOneillsMemory]

214. Greg Palast has his gas mask on. Very critical. gregpalast.com n/t

[Endangered Specie]

39. Mine has disentegrated into several pieces

[MoonRiver]

41. Never held it.

My lungs are clear and O2 is flowing freely to the brain. Kerry rocks and that's a fact!!!

[G_j]

44. very happy with his speech, addressed what I wanted to hear : bravo!

[Ilsa]

46. Tossed mine!

I'm happy to say, I'm ready to work to get Kerry/Edwards a landslide!

[WI_DEM]

48. Kerry did a great job tonight

It was a wonderful speech.

[Fatima]

51. Never said I wouldn't vote for the guy,

I just have reservations about his belief in pre-emptive war. I don't care for it, but I'm sure he'll be a lot more reasonable than that insane crook we have in the WH right now. Liked the speech, and other than this issue I think he'll do a good job. Anybody who doesn't like my opinions can suck eggs, this is still America! :)

[Jose Diablo]

52. Kerry is everything I hoped for and more

Truly inspiring.

[Booster]

57. Hell, NO!!!!!

For the first time since Kennedy, I'm actually going to vote FOR someone, with a little against someone thrown in. I'm so excited. And if Bush steals the election, then let the revolution begin.

[molly]

60. There will be a civil war if they try to pull their stunts again!

[malatesta1137]

106. you mean, if he steals it AGAIN

I just beg Kerry to rehire a new crew of mechanics for his Boeing.

[molly]

58. Have they got the twins in training? LOL!!!

[DemBones DemBones]

61. Kerry's speech was great. I still worry about Iraq, though, Will.

I remember LBJ and think he had pretty good intentions but he was caught in the quicksand of staying the course in Viet Nam. I fear it could happen to John Kerry, too.

I hope Kerry's listening to Dennis Kucinich and all the rest of us who opposed the war long before it began. I hope he really sees the danger.

But I was on his side before tonight.

[Ladyhawk]

63. John Kerry made me cry.

What a speech! I really hope he means all he says. For me it was always ABB, but now I dare to hope Kerry will make a decent president.

Help is on the way.

[BattyDem]

66. As I posted in another thread ...

For the last few months, I have supported John Kerry because I had to. As of tonight, I support John Kerry because I want to!

[mwdem]

67. Will, talk to your mom.

As a mom, myself, I think you need to talk to her.

[WilliamPitt]

68. I will

[Boomer]

69. I'm happily breathing Democratic air

This speech was beyond my wildest expectations. I've been waiting YEARS to hear this speech from someone who is proud to be a Democrat and who is reclaiming patriotism, faith and family values.

I was a skeptic until tonight, but Kerry has won my heart.

[Upfront]

70. No

I am now taking mine off and coming on board. Kerry sold me tonight.

[hippywife]

71. I liked much of what I heard

but I will retain my clothespin until I see how he performs as president. We're going to hold him to these promises, Will. After all we've all been through these past 3.5 years and the primaries where we gave our hearts, we're going to hold him to it, Will.

[Arianrhod]

190. Amen, hippywife.

Campaign talk is just that--campaign talk. There's a long three months ahead of us, and the Republicans have only just begun to tune up their arsenal. I've been bitterly disappointed in Kerry's handling of the barrel shoot he was invited to the past couple of months. I hope he can do better now.

I also remember how excited and hopeful I was after Gore ravished Tipper on stage. I figured he was a changed man, ready to win. How wrong I was. :(

I'm a pessimist by nature, a pragmatist by profession. Let's get Kerry into office. But he'd damned well better deliver.

I've already been approached by the LaRouche campaign, and sometimes they look very tempting. . . .

[The Spirit of JFK]

72. Will, thanks for the blog and checking in live (as it were) with us here

Nice job. And it's good to have a REAL view from the inside. You must be absolutely exhausted.

[NYCGirl]

73. Never had a nosepin in place,

but my reservations about John Kerry are still with me. Great speech, though, and I hope we all move positively forward from here.

[wellstone_democrat]

75. no

*

[Northwind]

76. Gotta say it

I was wrong about Kerry. He's got it. Took him a while to find it, but he's got it.

I am still right about the Kultists though. :P

[WilliamPitt]

77. Holy shit

Mine eyes have seen the glory.

:)

[JohnKleeb]

78. yes but what about those who got banned because of their tirades

You think they see the light now? I bet you they do. Ive seen most of Kerry's former biggest critics see him now in a totally new light.

[Cleita]

86. There are some of the banned DU'ers I would like to see

back. I wonder if administration would consider reinstating some of them if we have a poll perhaps?

[JohnKleeb]

113. I am sure they are in thrall with Kerry

now too, some people who I never thought would get on board are now saying hell no to the pin and doing it with a smile.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seaglass]

163. And if they ever read DU - it's much appreciated. n/t

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pallas180]

84. Will, I'd like to know more about that ACT rally & Wilson & Dean and

all that spoke. Did you, can you , are you going to write something
up about it....it sounded like a home run...and I'd sure like to
know the details.

Thanks if you can

Pallas

[WilliamPitt]

92. I'm going to write about all of it

when I get back from Seattle.

[Pallas180]

117. Will, Seattle? yikes. I'm not even going to ask.

.

[WilliamPitt]

129. Rolling Thunder Democracy Tour

Jim Hightower calls, and I pack a bag.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

82. So stunned by Kerry speech I sucked it clear up my nostril

:hi:

[Buck Rabbit]

99. George? n/t

[Myrina]

87. I will remove mine after his 2nd State of the Union Address

... when he tells us that employment is up, the deficit is down, the troops are all back from Iraq and Afghanistan, there's money for healthcare, infrastructure and schools, roe v. wade is incontestable, and the BFEE are all firmly contained at Alcatraz.

Until then, he's still gotta prove himself, thank you.

[Lorien]

88. Still not wild about him, but feeling less

hopeless about November.

[name not needed]

89. Threw it out after Iowa

When he came from dead last and took the state.

[SammyWinstonJack]

90. Never was a "holding My Nose" contingent here!

Kerry rocked tonight!

[SammyWinstonJack]

91. Never was a "holding My Nose" contingent here!

Kerry rocked tonight!

[Donkeyboy75]

93. Same as before. No nosepins...

I like the guy, but he's got to get the job done. I've seen too many politicians on both sides talk the talk, but settle into complacency. Let's just hope he's as good at being president as he is at delivering a KICK-ASS convention speech.

[milkyway]

94. I posted here a few weeks ago I was glad Kerry is the nominee.

The nosepin came off a couple of months ago. I keep coming back to the young John Kerry who came home to oppose the war. I very much admire that person, and I know that deep down he is still that person. I have felt that when he became President, he would stop being the cautious Senator and start being the bold executive leader he was as a young man. But I was wrong. That bold, strong leader emerged tonight. This man can be a great, great President.

BTW, does Howard Dean get a royalties fee for his lines that ended up in Kerry's speech tonight? :)

[JanMichael]

95. Didn't need a pin, thanks.

Expectations meager & met.

As I've said before, I'll do what I can to get Bush out, if that means voting for Kerry so be it. He performed well, so did Edwards (Although he went flat halfway through his party line speech), so I have high hopes that they can defeat Bush barring a cancelled election.

But after that the results are all that matters. Failure is not acceptable anymore, I'm tired of the staus quo even though I'm a beneficiary.

[Oilwellian]

98. Never used a nosepin

I've always had a dryer. Oh, wait....nevermind. :+

Seriously Will, Kerry was awe-inspiring tonight. It's his destiny to be president. :hi:

[shanti]

100. they are gone!

i'm sold!

[Dover]

101. I think this speech will make it easier for fence-sitters and those on

the right who feel alienated by the radicals in the GOP, to vote for Kerry. I'm pleased with the upbeat, optimistic emphasis, the inclusiveness and the beginnings of what I hope will develop into an actual VISION for America.

But while it effectively invited others into the fold, many within the Democratic community felt that this Convention was NOT representative or inclusive. Particularly those of us who cringe at the apparent hawkishness and pro-defense spending rhetoric delivered by Edwards and Kerry. I do personally HOPE that they are overplaying it for the big show. But that's a dangerous thing for any voter to have to assume, because it is a MAJOR rather than a minor issue that still divides this party. If it's primarily strategic rhetoric, then I must congratulate them for being so convincing, for it surely sounded like the future, while full of potential for real structural economic change, also held a lot of potential for a great deal of a spilled blood and military spending.

This 'war' in Iraq has been waged for all the wrong reasons and is so unpopular, I don't know how they'll get American soldiers to believe enough in our cause there to continue to go and risk their lives for it/not to mention the criminal murder of Iraqi citizens...without a very unpopular draft.

[KoKo]

102. Here's an honest answer,hope you haven't been hitting the scotch...but

After a zinger of a week where I was getting pumped up, tonights lineup made me sick. It was Lieberman (Mr. Warmonger), Pelosi (doing some silly giggle that made her look like an idiot), Madeline Albright (whom I've liked but she sounded like a Valkyrie from Hell) and Joe Biden (Mr. Smiley who lies out of both sides of his mouth and only thinks of Me! Me! Me!) I was ready to say F**k IT! I might as well vote for Bush as to vote for these war mongers. When Willy Nelson came out and sung about the "Promised Land" "....the road through the shifting desert sands to the Promised Land.." (quote from his song) I thought he was talking about carving the road through the desert to get to Israel so we could join our promised land with the "Biblical Promised Land" and the sloppy orchestration of playing Isley Brothers "Shout" for long periods, and then Carol King "You've Got A Friend" I was barfing when I wasn't stomping on the floor and shouting obscenities at the TV for having to suffer being trashed as a Populist, Anti-Iraq Invasion Democrat who felt she was being "rolled."

I thought tonight's program was a disaster and such a let down from the previous nights fabulous speakers and discipline. No mention of Lyndon Johnson and his "War on Poverty" and the "Civil Rights Act." It was as if Johnson didn't exist and no mention of the word Vietnam even though all of tonights program was built around that WAR and Kerry's BRAVERY in THAT WAR....but mention of every other Dem President in recent years. I thought that smelled of horrible hypocracy of the Bush kind.

HOWEVER! it was the Bush Daughters and the Spielberg Bio of Kerry and then Kerry's speech which turned me around. I truly hope that he will attempt to do what he says. He can give a magnificent speech when he puts his mind to it and this was one of those times when he was truly magnificent.

However, his line up of tonight's speakers (the worst of our Dem Party, imho) was definite that Kerry APPROVES of the "Bush Doctrine of Pre-Emptive Strike"....while Kerry in his speech says "We will only go to war as a last resort." What am I to believe?

Does he endorse the Bush Doctrine of "attack first and ask questions later"...or what he said in his speech that he will wait until all efforts have been exhausted before he sends anyone into War? He didn't clear up my mind on that point, so I feel he trashed the Anti-Iraq Invasion folks by having the line up of pro-war speakers pushing evil doers and Islamics hate us and are out to get us Repug Talking Points. :shrug:

I have my Kerry T-Shirt, my buttons and bumper sticker...and am ready to go here in my Precinct, but how will I answer where Kerry stands on the "Pre-Emptive Strike" issue, when those he chose to speak on this most important of nights all were "war mongers?" The other folks were relegated to the first days of the week.

We were told to "shut up" during the Mid-Term Elections because our Democrats had a plan to win and winning would mean not confronting Bush about his policies or the 2000 Selection. Now, Kerry is asking us to ignore Lieberman, Biden, Albright and others who are saying that Bush's foreign policy are what we need, but Kerry says he won't follow Bush's plans. :eyes:

All of the rest of his speech was wonderful. But, I heard it from Clinton and others before. I hope to trust him, but I'm not convinced.

I will work my butt off for him, but the answer doesn't lie with Kerry/Edwards. It lies with the Grassroots and a new PROGRESSIVE WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

That's where some of us will have to go, since our party in trying to "win" once again will cut off it's base and push forward those pander to the war mongers and corporate interests.

That's my honest opinion....since you asked.

[eridani]

108. You've covered most of my points

I was glad to hear him say that health care is a right. What it will take to get real universal health care instead of the bandaids actually proposed in the platform is serious, competent organizing by all of us for whom this is a primary issue. He can be pushed, and Bush most assuredly can't.

I'm thinking that FDR ran on a balanced budget platform, of all things. He was forced into the New Deal by popular movements. I'd say that starting from where Kerry is now, we are ahead of the game compared to 1932.

Except for Clark, the other speeches were truly uninspiring.

[kiahzero]

116. 1) You must have missed Clark

2) Biden HATES Bush's foreign policy.

It's pretty clear that the Democratic Party is solidly against the Bush Doctrine of Preventative War.

[G_j]

151. by the time Kerry hit the stage I felt battered

hearing Lieberman declaring Iraq was "liberated" etc. drained me.
I was still reeling from Edwards' bellicose statements the night before. I was depressed by the time Kerry got up there. I had been tempted to just turn off the TV but more out of curiosity I stayed to hear Kerry.
I was quite happy with Kerry's speech. It was far better than I had dreamed. Admittedly my expectations were not high, but he addressed most of the issues I was concerned about in a way that I found 'acceptable' given that the peace plank was already dead in the water. So I can support Kerry with more enthusiasm than before.

But I can't get over the feeling of having been almost abused: battered and bruised from much of the tough guy, war-accepting talk that lead up to Kerry's final speech. Good cop/bad cop?

I'm glad its over.

[calimary]

109. I was very favorably impressed. Actually threw some red meat in there.

I had been VERY concerned as the convention wore on, that everyone seemed a LOT more interested in - shall we say - (one waits a lifetime for a set-up like this) "beating around the bush." Nobody else did what Kerry did - he confronted Iraq, (FINALLY!) and he included references to going to war for a lie, and mentions of ordinary people suffering so Enron can get another tax cut and the Saudi royal family, and not wearing his religion on his sleeve and pointing to those who'd wrap themselves in the flag, and the suppression of dissent and how that flag overhead belongs NOT just to one party. I thought he hit a series of home runs. Sometimes my jaw dropped open, that he'd actually say some of the things he said.

Yes, it was heavy on the national security schtick tonight. But at some point, it HAD to be. They almost completely skirted it for the past three days. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many opportunities to call the bushies on their bullshit and say the things that needed to be said, and just about everybody passed them up. Sharpton got close, and so did Wesley Clark, and Obama was great, too, but nobody really said what we flat out need to hear and keep repeating. I'm glad they finally got around to it. Because the war is a BIG issue and getting bigger. I forget where I read or saw it, but between now and election day, we'll hit the number 1,000 for American troop casualties. That will only underscore what a shitty idea it was.

I think the planners intended that tonight would be given over to Kerry and friends making the case that he is tough on terrorism and is willing to do what it takes. That's really the only strong card bush has, according to the public perception that the polls indicate. They give Kerry the highest marks on all the domestic issues, but he loses to bush as far as who's preceived as toughest on terror. That HAD TO BE ADDRESSED. I think he did it VERY well.

I was VERY impressed. Initial reaction: I lost count of how many home runs he hit. VERY good. Good body language. Just a touch of self-deprecating humor. He didn't just stand at the podium like some inanimate stuffed shirt. He showed vigor and strength, and spoke forcefully and with conviction.

Also noteworthy: the difference in demeanor between last night's postmortems and tonight's - with the dear darling Frank Luntz on MSNBC. Last night, he was talking to this "focus group" for their reactions to Edwards' speech - which, frankly, I found underwhelming. He was MUCH smirkier, especially since the reaction was not overwhelming, either. Tonight, he was VERY sober. He looked like he just saw something scary behind his bedroom door. Didn't smile ONCE. Last night he was almost jocular. He wasn't worried for his republi-CON pals. Tonight, I suspect, he is.

[Skwmom]

132. Having listened to many of Clark's speeches

all I can say is a lot of it sounded very, very familiar. I don't think anyone else took on Iraq directly because Kerry wanted to do that himself.

[spooky3]

143. I believe there was a plan to subdue most of the other speakers

in order to make Kerry's speech seem the hardest hitting. (Of course some of the speakers didn't need any help in that regard!)

I think it was an excellent plan. It worked very well. It would NOT have worked, had Kerry not done a great job on his speech, but he did.

That said, Kerry certainly gave the Repugs plenty of ammunition for a counter-attack. It would however be refreshing to see debates over issues and positions actually taken, rather than the personal attacks and lies *'s minions have put forth to date.

[ibegurpard]

114. I will never be able to be enthusiastic about Kerry

until I see how he actually governs as President.

[scarletwoman]

115. I'm feeling pretty happy tonight, so I'll set the clothespin aside for now

However, I remember feeling really happy in '92 also. And 8 years later, after NAFTA and no pardon for Peltier, I felt utterly betrayed.

So, I'll put a Kerry/Edwards sticker on my car, and work my butt off to get out the vote for them.

I'll put aside the clothespin, but not my jaundiced eye...

sw

[Cat Atomic]

119. Excellent speech. But my opinion is unchanged.

We'll see how he actually governs. If he's earned my loyalty in the White House, he'll have it. But I'm not getting any Kerry tattoos just yet.

[ibegurpard]

120. These are my sentiments as well.

I would be delighted to have Kerry put my doubts to rest as President

[knight_of_the_star]

123. What nosepin?

Wes Clark says Kerry is a good man, and that was enough for me! Tonight just removed ALL doubts that John Kerry will be anything BUT a GREAT president.

[Dover]

124. Does Kerry's promise to reorganize the intelligence agencies and

act on the 9/11 commission's recommendations mean that he buys the results of that commission?

Once again, (as with other Dems whose excuse for signing onto this war was that they received bad intelligence) I'm left wondering whether Kerry is actually SATISFIED with the findings that it was all the intelligence agencies fault? Is he naive? Or does he really know there's more to the 9/11 failures but is, for some unknown reason, signing on once again to what appears to many to be bogus info coming from a bogus commission...this time on 9/11?

This is where my trust and faith in government in general breaks down. The lies......the really deep dark ones....never see the light. I'm sure Kerry is a fine person, but I wouldn't count on him to champion such a cause as would bring truth and justice to any of the burning issues that should, by our laws, put these neoCONs in jail where they belong. The American people don't have a real champion in that regard.

[Duncan Grant]

127. He had me at "...reporting for duty."

Time to turn this in -

[ThirdWheelLegend]

128. Downgraded from 3 nosepins to 2

TWL

[Suzi Creamcheese]

133. Hah hah, that says it well

[Kanary]

182. Heh... great description.... same here, with the third held in easy reach!

I also think the only hope is a HUGE effort for a Progressive Movement.

But, given the "shut up" efforts we've seen the last few months, coupled with the an increased effort in Boston, I don't hold out a lot of hope for being heard.

Decision pending......

Kanary

[Solly Mack]

130. It was a very good speech

Never was holding my nose though. To me, and I am only speaking for me...holding your nose when you vote suggest you don't plan to take responsibility for that vote. If I had to hold my nose, I wouldn't vote for the person...period. I assume all responsibility for my vote. I own my vote.

[ronabop]

134. Hm.

Are we still in Iraq?
Do we now believe that a voting human is formed at conception?
It it still okay to exempt wealthy areas from wind farms or drilling?
Do we have national gay marriage?
Do we have nationalized medicine?
Are environmental protections more important than industry?

-Bop

[WilliamPitt]

136. It was a speech

I can't be sure how up on procedures you are, so I'll be pedantic: It was a speech. One must win first to enact policy.

[Dover]

137. Will, a question about your interview with Kucinich

which I just watched on your terrific blog site.

What did he mean near the end of the interview when he was talking about how he was helping Kerry reach out to Progressives....where he said, "hey look, no one has any illusions about what a Kerry administration represents..."

[WilliamPitt]

138. Basically

A candidate Kerry isn't much for pushing. A President Kerry can be pushed.

So...elect his ass, get organized, and offer him a friendlier Congress in 2006 (after he spends two years losing to them and is desperate for a Democratic House Speaker), with the following caveat: Progressives help win back the Congress, Kerry uses that Congress to pass progressive legislation.

Power politics.

[Dover]

139. I watched it again. He followed that statement up with...

paraphrasing....

That while no one has any illusions about what a Kerry administration would represent, they recognize that it is the only chance for a new start, and that differences in the party aren't getting in the way of achieving that.

So it sounded more like he was saying that Kerry is still quite a distance from a progressive stance......but the progressives don't have much choice given the alternative.

What you're saying is that Kerry has agreed to be more receptive to Progressive legislation and issues if they help him now with the Congress?

[Arianrhod]

191. This is true.

So why are you asking us to remove our clothespins on the basis of a campaign speech?

[NightTrain]

135. Last night, Kerry convinced me that he could be a damned good president!

Now, let's all do our best to make sure that he gets the chance.

[Murdock]

140. I'm ABB so I'm somewhat biased..

If an Orangutan had the best chance of beating Bush in November, I'd vote for him and do everything in my power to get him elected..

There were very few bones tossed out for those of us who are anti war and concerned about civil liberties.. Right now, I feel the immediate threat of The Bush Administration is holding the Democratic Party together moreso than an idealistic agreement. I find it hard to believe that even today after what is known that the majority are pro war and pro Patriot Act.

As of now though, I am reserving judgment on the Kerry admin, he has a massive daunting task ahead of him, sadly we will not see what he could truly potentially could have been as his entire administration for the potential 8 years is going to be consumed with attempting to mend the fences and heal the wounds caused by Bush co.

[Nlighten1]

144. I have officially taken my nosepin off.

I'm proud of my party again. At least for now.

[nomaco-10]

145. Still firmly in place....

I'm afraid the stench of the IWR vote and the suggested deployment of forty thousand more troops to Iraq, leaves too much of an odorous aroma in the air for my taste.

Oops, almost forgot, we're all OK now with the illegal, immoral invasion and subsequent occupation of a third world country that was contained by sanctions and had no involvement in 911. Seemingly a minor point around here as of late.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

155. did not say 40,000 troops to Iraq - CLEARLY SAID ***NOT*** to IRAQ

pardon me for yelling, but stop misquoting and twisting words to make your point.

[TeacherCreature]

210. okay so he is going to deploy troops elsewhere

so he can send the troops that are currently elsewhere to Iraq. Is that how it is going to work.

[emulatorloo]

156. did not say 40,000 troops to Iraq - CLEARLY SAID ***NOT*** to IRAQ

pardon me for yelling, but stop misquoting and twisting words to make your point.

"We will add 40,000 active duty troops - not in Iraq, but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended and under pressure. "

[ProfessorGAC]

165. Must Be A Burden To Be The Only One With A Conscience

It's not a minor point. But, riddle me this, oh wise sage of the political stage: What should we do now? Just leave this people to their own chaotic state, that we created? Just how would have us fix what Lil Georgie and his thugs have broken?

Don't bother answering, really. Your political purism would get in the way of any logical thought.
The Professor

[Arianrhod]

192. A good start:

1. Hold real, genuine elections in which the people choose their leaders and their style of government. Immediately.

2. Pull Haliburton and the oil cartel out of Iraq and leave the production facilities to the Iraqi people.

3. Rebuild the infrastructure--water, power, hospitals--that we destroyed in our madness. Use Iraqi laborers and technicians along with American ones, and pay them all the same equitable wages for their work.

4. Fire the mercenaries.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

148. No clothespin this time. Voting for Cobb.

Kerry came off as hawk-lite. More troops, more money for "defense", more flagwaving BS. Still supports the occupation. Still defends his vote for war.

My nose holding capabilities have been exceeded for only the second time as a Democrat.

[clyrc]

150. I'm cautious with my nosepin

but by the time I heard this speech I had already gotten my mom her Kerry Edwards yard signs, and I was already determined to wear my Kerry Edwards button every day when I went out of the house, so I don't know how cautious I can say I really am. I didn't keep my intention to wear my button every day, though, because a woman at an ice cream store told me she really liked my button, so I gave it to her. Next time I go get buttons it will be more than one so I can give them out again if I need to.

[deutsey]

153. Yes. It isn't pinched so tightly anymore, but it's still there

[DinahMoeHum]

154. Tossed it out for good weeks ago.

It was obvious from his speech last night that Kerry has a rendezvous with destiny. He's been preparing for this all his life.


:kick::kick::kick:

[carolinayellowdog]

157. After supporting Dean and Edwards in the primaries

I am now content that our nominee is the best candidate to defeat Bush. Never disliked Kerry but was lukewarm before last night. No more.

[no name no slogan]

158. Absolutely. Even more so.

The double-dealing and dishonesty of the DNC and the Kerry campaign at this convention has done quite a bit to get me off the "vote for Kerry" bandwagon and on the "ABB" wagon instead.

The Peace vote is Kerry's for the asking-- all he has to do is even MENTION Peace, and they'll be on board. But somehow Kerry thinks it's easier to sway 4% of the Repubs who MAY lean his direction, instead of courting the 6% who are just looking for a reason other than ABB to not only vote for him, but go out and volunteer for him too.

Leave it to the party heirarchy to FUBAR this one, though. Hope they enjoy the temporary 5% bounce, because it will be gone soon enough.

[Alpha Wolf]

166. Exactly! No name no slogan...

Once again, the DNC decided that Democrats needed to look and sound like Repugs in order to get elected. Who cares if our candidate talks like a war hawk in an arena filled with 15,000 ardent anti-war, anti-military delegates? Who cares if he voted for the war in the first place? Who cares if he says he'll send MORE troops to Iraq? Who cares that he recently said he would use PRE-EMPTIVE military actions if intelligence deemed it necessary? Who cares-- because he said he was a uniter and not a divider. He said he will make America stronger. He said he will bring hope. Well whoopi-fricken-doo. I don't know which party is which anymore. Let them try to confiscate my anti-war sign at a rally.

[Desertrose]

219. I agree with you A Wolf & no name no slogan....I'd like to really

support him ...but....well I concur with everything you both said and then there is the fact they are in the same "club" ......and same corporate interests...I dunno....I don't see a big difference between the parties...both corporate parties anymore.....

But hey....don't get yer knickers in a twist...I'll vote for him but my clothespin is still in place.....

[MISSDem]

159. Even David Brooks was impressed

with John Kerry's speech and that says a lot to me.

[bloom]

161. actually - that's bad as far as I'm concerned....n/t

[bloom]

202. In today's NYTimes - Brooks says Kerry "All Things to All People"

OP-ED COLUMNIST
All Things to All People
By DAVID BROOKS
"John Kerry's acceptance speech skirted almost every tough issue and came out on both sides of every major concern."



I think Brooks is an ass (I guess he's the ass of an elephant.)

[TeacherCreature]

211. well sure

Kerry was all about war and national secuity. What republican wouldn't love that?

[tlcandie]

162. I think Mother Earth may be breathing a sigh of relief....

My clothespin has been tucked away! There's just too much good here not to be impressed...his wife and his family, the Edwards family...

Now we wait...

Wait to see what tricks this dying regime has up its sleeves..

Wait to see how much can be reversed and how fast once he gets into office. If he cares about the environment as much as he says, then he also has to care about other living beings. His intelligent and spiritual wife gives MUCH credence to John Kerry.

I'm trying to breath through all the negatives swirling around my head about a possible assassination attempt, the dying regime's bag of dirty tricks, etc.

Thank you all for not giving up on those of us who weren't convinced! We always said ABB...just that it was getting harder and harder!

My husband was happy to see that I had been won over as well!

:hi: :bounce:

[Carni]

164. A cynic's perspective

I made up my mind to vote for Kerry in the primaries at the very last minute (LITERALLY as I walked into my polling place)

Early in the primaries I found Kerry very unappealing and boring as the Pres candidate...I liked him and admired his reputation but found him to be a business as usual DC type that didn't inspire me.

What did impress me about him was the fact that he took on Congress after returning from Vietnam and in the end that is why I voted for Kerry in the primaries.

I spent most of yesterday however, wondering if Kerry would bomb last night, because I have never felt he was much of a speaker.

I was right about casting my vote for him and VERY wrong about his speaking abilities.

I don't think the Big Dog could have topped that speech last night.

I am a total cynic and Kerry's speech blew me away.

I think this is the first time I have watched a politician and have believed what they are stating is something that they truly believe in.

I think this is also the FIRST time in over 3 years that I have felt that Bush may very well be on his way out.

(Sorry to get so long winded)

[proud patriot]

167. No

after that speech last night , no holding my nose
to vote for Kerry .

I'm not voting against bush anymore I'm voting for Kerry .

[Snivi Yllom]

168. Lets see, more troops (to Iraq), more military spending..

I dont believe the lie that more troops are not going. 40,000 troops will be used to fill other areas allowing troops in Iraq to stay indefinitely.

Nosepin: Check.

[Capn Sunshine]

173. That's where I'm at

Vote Kerry.
He's not Satan incarnate stalking the earth.
And he's actually sensitive to the environment.

There, that's two for two......

[toddzilla]

174. good speech, talk is cheap.

n/t

[Skwmom]

175. I agree.

I'm amazed at how so many seem to give so much weight to a speech in deciding whether or not to support someone.

[Selwynn]

176. I'm not sure that's the right metaphor, but yeah (explain)

Last night was a wonderful speech, and I posted that Kerry managed to give me real hope about going back towards a better direction if he is elected. That said, Kerry represents a start, while the positions of Dennis Kuncinich for example, represent much more accurately what I really believe.

It's not quite the right attitude to say I am "holding my nose" but I neither do I think Kerry is the perfect candidate. I believe that if he is elected we will have an even better opportunity to push the party and the nation in a progressive direction. And that is more that enough to make me optimistic.

[sleipnir]

177. Short answer: "Yes"

One speech can't erase three years of bad judgment and horrible decision making. Kerry and Edwards still get my vote, but that's all they get from me. I hope they win, but I'll keep that nosepin there until they start doing things in their term that earn my respect.

Nothing will ever change the fact that over the last three sessions of the Senate, Kerry and Edwards abandoned many of their progressive and Democratic ideals simply for political expediency towards their own runs for President. And I'll never forget that fact.

[KG]

183. clothes pin still there. aint drinking the kool-aid neither.

his speech was a tempest in a teapot, signifiying nothing.

i may pull a lever for kerry, but i'm gonna still gonna call 'em like i see 'em concerning the dem party and it's leadership.

anybody can make a rousing speech, i'm waiting to see what he does when he's got the job.

[enigmatic]

186. Great Sppech

I supported Dean, but Kerry said what he needed to say to get me on board. I'm voting by absenteee ballot this year and he's got my vote..

[Pastiche423]

188. Aw, man

Don't put that clothes pin on your beautiful nose!

There are other ways to vote.

[Guaranteed]

193. It's much looser than it was.

It all depends on what he does in the White House, though.

I'm extremely hopeful. He pointed out the relevant issues in his speech. That means he knows- of course, he's always known. He's a very, very intelligent man.

I'm very hopeful, like I said.

[jdonaldball]

195. Now I have MORE nosepins and I'll STILL vote for Kerry!

So don't flame me, please. I will still vote for Kerry.
Kerry disgusts me. The whole convention disappointed me. Now I have LESS respect for Kerry than I did before.
But I remember what Churchill said about being allies with Stalin, something like "I would make an alliance with The Devil if The Devil fought with me against That Man (Hitler.)"
I do not share the prevalent admiration of Kerry and the other Dems, which I have seen on DU. The convention was very disappointing to me.
So, my fellow DUers, whenever you meet or read anyone like me, who are disgusted by Kerry but will vote for him anyway, please don't flame. Just keep us on your side, and maybe respect us for having the integrity to vote for a man of whom we do not approve, and we can argue about other things later.
Please do not stifle criticism of Kerry, as long as we dissenters still vote for him.
Kerry must win. We can argue later about other matters.

[Norquist Nemesis]

196. I took it off and sprayed some Glade

Works like a charm! :) Seriously, I still think Kerry has some chinks in his armor but I'm pulling for him all the way. I'm scared shitless at what dirty tricks Rove can pull out of his hat. The number of voters who will tip this one way or the other is unprecedented in their small numbers. It makes me very nervous.

[tlcandie]

200. liburl.. have to agree...

I haven't accepted Kerry 100% because the proof is in the pudding, so to speak! I was able to see more about him and of him via the convention which helped me to not feel as though I needed to hold my nose to vote, etc. I am on board though and will be voting for Kerry and not ABB.

Kerry has the right stuff, IF in his heart he still believes in all that he spoke about in 1971 regarding Vietnam. Only time will tell. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because at one time he has had what it took to do the job right! I'm thinking he's just a smart politician and holds his cards close to his chest regarding his liberal leanings.

The Rovian dirty tricks, as you say, are again something that I think we will have to watch carefully. Knowing that those who do not play by the rules do not live long, I'm very cautious on both ends...this regime and Kerry's actual tenure.

[Khephra]

201. Yep

No voter for Bush here, but I still thinking we're backgin Kerry out of blindness to history.

[madfloridian]

205. Will, this is not a very nice thread.

I may not have been of the so-called "holding your nose" contingent myself, but actually a lot of people are still cautious.

Your way of posting this has opened up attacks on some very nice people who are sincere about the war and its effects on our future.

This is a way of making fun of others, and it should not be going on now. You say in one thread you want the Democrats to all be on board for Kerry, and then you make fun of those who were not excited about him.

One day you want to be friendly and the next you are trying to humiliate. Make up your mind.

[goobergunch]

206. Aye

Seated in a captain's chair, coatless with his shirt collar open, Kerry said he did not consider the war on Iraq a mistake, but that President Bush misled Americans and the world by waging the war hastily and not "as a last resort."

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/9288422.htm

I'm liking Kerry quite a bit more after his speech Thursday night (and I would vote for him if I could vote), but I can't be that happy with him until he acknowledges that the war was a mistake.

EDIT: Forgot the link

[kaitykaity]

213. Oh, all right.

Cat: Kerry

Mice: Bush, et al.

Will a good cartoonist draw a big cat playing with
a bunch of mice with an evil grin on it's face.

I'm starting to believe that Kerry is replaying what
he did in the primaries. Then, he laid low in the weeds
until just the right time, and then he laid the smack-down
on his rivals.

[madfloridian]

220. Kick

kicking for unity.

[KarmaHappens]

226. Mine is firmly in place

until the debates are over.

[rhite5]

227. Yes.

very impressive speech, though.

After hearing Edwards' fiery pro-war speech the night before, I had serious doubts and a very sick feeling in my stomach. We've been told the delegates on the floor were 80%-90% anti-war --- how on earth did that Edwards speech go over with them?

I am not comfortable with the tight orchestrating of the convention, the speech vetting and attempted censorship (Sharpton resisted, thank god), the list of Democratic leaders who were not invited to participate, the subjects that were forbidden ..... So much seemed like a phony effort to appear totally unified.

It took some doing to accomplish what they did, and, by golly, it seems to have worked.

The real question remains --- will Kerry be able to hang on to the progressive wing of the party and the Greens and Naderites in swing states long enough to get through November 2nd? I hope so.

Can we deliver a Democratic Senate for him this year and drastically reduce the GOP edge in the House? I hope so. I don't think we can wait for 2006.

Kanary is right. We Progressives have a lot of work to do once we get Kerry into office.