Failed State America: Scenes from the Death Chamber

[DuctapeFatwa]

As old soldiers took the stage to glorify colonialist wars of aggression, atrocities past and present, the Democrats practiced their new talking points: Vote for John Kerry because he is a a decorated veteran who knows first-hand what it takes to impose America's will on rogue natives, a man of faith, a man who knows it's not so much what you say as how you say it, what you do as how you present it.

As the party elite party on in a city where the homeless have been safely locked away, those opposed to war crimes caged, America lies dying, an unrecognizable skeleton of a life ill-conceived and nefariously lived, blue foam of morphine oozing from the corners of her cracked lips, the family hovers at the bedside, whispering, they say she can hang on like this for a while, DNR, keep her comfortable, if only we'd known sooner, they might have been able to operate, well, we did know, you remember I told you that day she fell, she hadn't been looking right...

It is not my intention to tell anyone that they "should not" vote for Kerry. Or the short one.

That would be like telling someone in the latter stages of terminal lung cancer that they should not smoke a cigarette.

The United States is a failed state, with no legitimate government, it is run by a corporate designer version of Somalia-style warlords, whose purpose has nothing to do with the well-being of its citizens, and everything to do with stuffing a handful of already bulging profits with the sweat and blood of its own people, and the people of those countries it decides to seize, with multi-national sweat and blood, and the innocence of multi-national children.

There is no nation on earth whose people do not fear being invaded and overrun by US funded hordes of torturers and sexual predators, there is no mother who does not tremble at the thought that it could be her own child there in the "interrogation facility," providing a little R & R for America's brave gunmen.

America is feared and despised like the still-breathing corpse of the brute who raped your sister, you cannot feel pity, you can feel nothing but disgust and loathing, and the stench of his putrefication-in-life is a fetid promise that soon he will be no more.

A failed state, with no credible claim to sovereignty or nationhood, it is nothing more than a cadre of war profiteers who rule over a mass of serfs, who will live or die according to the grace and favor of the cadre.

Whether its figurehead is tall or short, literate and urbane or a neurological wreck living with challenges developmental and emotional does not matter to the next child to die, or wish he would, so that the ruling lords of Halliburton, or Heinz, or an optimist merger of Heinz-Halliburton can have more money than most American serfs can even conceive of.

As the glitterati and the politerati clink glasses and hobnob and pose for photos, those for whom a front porch is an impossible dream are neither deceived nor interested.

To those who crouch, weeping over the bodies of loved ones, in the ruined rubble of their humble homes, it does not make a bit of difference how war crimes are phrased or framed, what "face" is painted on them.

Those who scream, who still can make sounds, from the depths of the prisons and interrogation facilities, the cages and holes and undisclosed locations that dot the globe do not appreciate the nuanced quality of their torment, or the merits of an even-handed discussion of child rape.

America lies dying, and the neighbors gather, murmuring outside the death chamber, they do not enter,not out of respect, but revulsion, and while the family squabbles over the good china, someone slips in, and very quietly pulls the plug.

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

[izzie]

1. What is this?

--------

[tabasco]

2. A letter from Utopia ...

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz..........

[REP]

44. The Sound of Someone Taken By His Own Voice

I thought this style of purple-prosed sob-sister writing went out a few decades ago.

[Violet_Crumble]

56. I vote we all stick with monotone grunting style!

No speaking from yr heart, no trying to get others to confront the dark corners of the wardrobe they're blissfully living in. No, let's keep it all simple and happy, lest we get labelled with the 'purpleprosedsobsister' writing label. There's only a small handful of folk who's style I'm envious of, but ductapefatwa's one of them, and his posts were one of the things that kept me coming back to DU time and time again...

Violet...

[JohnLocke]

74. Please, Violet.

You can do better than that. The original post is clearly nonsense in fancy words. An elaborate way of expressing "Bush=Kerry" and other bullshit that demonstrates just how out of touch some people really are.

[JSJ]

3. excellent analylisis!

"As the glitterati and the politerati clink glasses and hobnob and pose for photos, those for whom a front porch is an impossible dream are neither deceived nor interested".

Perfect paragraph among many that state the undeniable truth of the matter. I hope those professional Democrats and politicians who work for corporate approval become more recogized as the problems that they are rather than the solutions their pr staffs perennially tout them to be. Fuck Republicans- their base wouldn't have them any other way- but Democrats, liberals and progressives expect, nay, demand a lot more from the people claiming to represent them.

[Elidor]

4. Perhaps not the most opportune moment to rip off veils

You're pissing on the parade. Can't we have some fun tonight? Ugly truths will be just as ugly and just as true tomorrow.

And that Heinz-Halliburton equation is a bit of a stretch. You're not voting for Nader, are you?

[BigMcLargehuge]

5. and so I say...

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. You lost me at "As".

[blm]

7. The day YOU go to poor villages in Africa and care for the sick and dying

and help them to learn preventive measures to save the lives of their families and communities is the day you'll earn the right to criticize Teresa Heinz Kerry.

Bitching on an internet forum doesn't save lives.

[Aidoneus]

10. *earn the right* to criticize our dear future Queen?

Oh, my.. Yeah, the next 4 years will be fun. :eyes:

[blm]

11. Queen, my ass. That's more vain, warped horseshit perception.

Those people you think it's ohsocool to condemn just likely saved our futures from the fascists and theocrats.

[JohnLocke]

75. Apparenly some are just soooo "fashionably jaded"

That they can sit on an Internet forum and write idiotic screeds using every page of Roget's thesaurus in the process. I wonder when was the last time the author of the original post actually did something worthwhile.

:eyes:

[DemBones DemBones]

8. I know what you're saying, and hope it's not

that bad. None of us here have any real power so we put our hope in voting in a better man. What else can we do?

[Aidoneus]

9. Nothing less..

than the brilliance one may expect from you. Thanks for jumping back for this.. :hi:

The response here as yet does not surprise me, unfortunately.

[blm]

12. Prettier version of there's no difference between Kerry and Bush.

BIG FUCKING YAWN.

Like listening to sophomores in college extoll the brilliance of Ayn Rand. As if that time-consuming exercise ever SAVED ONE GAWDDAM LIFE!

[JohnLocke]

76. "Brilliance" my ass.

More like untruthful, damaging bullshit.

[Aidoneus]

93. "my ass", "bullshit"

If only he, or I for that matter, could be so eloquent as this!

"damaging"?

-A.

[Pastiche423]

13. This was the perfect time

to remind each and everyone of us what is truly going on in our country and how it effects the world community.

I fear, though, that many have their eyes wide shut. That might be because the truth is too ugly to acknowledge. Or that it might interfere w/their rose-color glassed view of how they perceive their world to be at present.

There have been moments when I wondered what it would be like to join them. But then I read words like yours, so beautifully painful, and know that that it isn't possible. For me.

Thank you, DTF

[stavka]

14. So, how is Lyndon these days? - is he well?

Since the democrats shut him out this time, again, and naked association with either Stalinists and Nazi's didn't pan out, what's up for 2008 Green? Maybe, Chicago Basement Landscapers Party (CBLP)

One word of advice: Protein - eat some, and get some sleep.

[Eric J in MN]

15. regarding the secret prisons

If you're implying we have no better chance of ending the secret prisons under Kerry than under Bush, I disagree.

[thebigidea]

16. you'd think that ridding the world of Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz...

... would be enough of a reason to sigh a breath of relief.

[jpgray]

17. Do something

Do something. Seriously. If you don't want to or aren't, that doesn't invalidate your opinion. Not doing something doesn't deny you the right to criticize, it doesn't deny you the right to express your opinion (largely correct) about the way this country is going, but it would help very much if you woudl do something. We need people who think as you do active in your community, and in local politics.

A strategy of changing the system by not liking it will come to nothing. Being self-righteous without devoting your life to the righteous cause is a lie--you cannot love a cause with your whole soul and not devote your whole life to it. If you truly believe strongly in these things, get involved! If you don't care that strongly, keep speaking up! But really, do something if you can. If you aren't doing something now, start. If you are spending more time on a computer than you are committing your life to these values, consider how much they really mean to you. You can help a lot more in actions than words--there are too many words in this country.

[scarletwoman]

18. You certainly have a way with words, DF

Nice to see you again, it's always fascinating to take a trip with you into the shadows behind all the lights and glitter.

I'm torn between hope and cynicism. I desperately want enlightenment for my country, and I know that there's so much working against it. But I'm not about to give up on the possibility altogether.

I was listening to an interview with the poet Robert Bly last week where, while speaking of Neruda, he made a statement about how one can feel both ecstacy and grief in the same moment, in the same heart. It is not really a dichotomy, it is more an experience of multi-dimensionality.

That's how I feel about America -- I see and know (deeply) the corruption and distortions and dysfunctionality. Yet, at the same time, I see a spirit buried beneath all the rot that *could*, perhaps, shine forth and transform us into actually being what we have for long fooled ourselves into thinking we already are.

I know you offend alot of people here. You don't offend me, you make me think -- and think hard...

Welcome back,
sw

[jpgray]

19. I doubt he'll reply, but I'll say you're right--this should not offend

People on this thread, if it grows, will mostly attack the messenger, but I think few will challenge the premises. People who view the country in this way are very valuable, and I wish more would try to work their values into the system. It's hard to do when you recognize how flawed and repugnant the system is, but every little bit can help. After all, you're either trying to fix it before it collapses, waiting for it to collapse, or actively working to collapse it.

[scarletwoman]

22. "...actively working to collapse it."

The trick with option three on your list is, what are you doing to build something else in its place? Destruction is the easy part, it's the creation of something viable to replace what has been destroyed that takes real work.

Which is why most prefer option one -- "fix it before it collapses". But shoring up a structure with a flawed foundation at best just puts off the collapse.

Thank you for your response.

sw

[jpgray]

26. Well, I'm not convinced the foundation is beyond hope of repair

Unless the human race is. :D But even in that case I would still advocate taking every step we can with fixing things in mind. In the grand scheme of things, Kerry will hardly 'fix' anything, but the difference is enough to vote on for me.

[scarletwoman]

32. It's funny, when I read your three options...

"fixing, waiting, actively aiding collapse", my first repsonse was to relate to the "fixing" choice. I knew I wasn't just "waiting", and I thought I knew that I wasn't actively working to make the system collapse...

But then I thought, wait a minute, I AM working to make the system collapse -- if what is meant by the "system" is the current trend toward corporate feudalism.

Obviously, how one looks at what they are doing depends entirely on how one defines what the "system" is.

sw

[jpgray]

34. By 'collapse' I mean in the sense of a real social and economic disaster

Along the lines of those we have at times inflicted on other nations. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

[scarletwoman]

37. No need to be sorry.

I just realized that if we were going to have a sensible exchange about the "system", I ought to make sure we were speaking about the same thing.

I have to sign off now, however. It's very late and the screen is swimming before my tired eyes.

Goodnight, and thank you for the conversation. Sorry I can't continue.

sw

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. UM WORD to the people that sympathize

Perhaps you forgot that Ductape Fatwa is posting on a board from a computer via telephone technology courtesy of a number of corporations such as GE, Miscrosoft, or the like...,using a computer made with parts containing coltan that were fashioned on the blood of the Africans that the very mediums of his message were made possible with. ...it would be nice if we could ALL LIVE within our standards and ideals but it is entirely NOT POSSIBLE as every single person on this board is complicit. There is NO POSSIBILITY to live with integrity in this day and age when we commit violence every time we turn on our computers, use our telephones, start our cars or throw out all the trash we made in a day...hell...we can barely make a cup of coffee anymore that has no blood on it.....so to all those that would kill off ANY hope of a movement in a direction more likely to result in LESS annihilation...all I have to say is fuck off. One can at least HEAD west even if not reaching ABSOLUTE west.

[jpgray]

25. Sure--this conversation is made possible by an inequitable system

And this thread was posted at this time to stir the pot a little bit, and get attention, of course. :D

In my view, even if DF's standards are impossibly high, hard work towards them still helps things. No modern nation would meet the criteria of an equitable system, because all modern nations were built on an inequitable system of exploiting the disadvantaged at home and abroad, directly and indirectly. By that standard, every state is a failed state, though DF will never say that. Recognizing these things is good, but working to change them is better. In the sense that this disheartens those who would work for change, it's not a great sentiment, but recognizing the problems is important.

However, not liking the system doesn't do a damn thing to change it, and in that sense these words aren't as valuable as they could be if they were backed by hard work. But that could be said for a lot of us here, I am sure.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. I don't see a call to anything in his post..except hopelessness and defeat

Recignizing the problem includes recognizing the problems on our side..one of which is bitching, moaning and disorganized ineffective action...if DF were Joe Hill he probably would have killed himself rather than get put to death.

[jpgray]

31. I'm hopeful and I'm not defeated, but I can still value what DF has to say

We have a lot of ineffective action on our side, but I don't think that discredits our bitchers and moaners (I'd have to line up with them). Some of his style is goofy (his cigarette metaphor is lousy), but his viewpoint is important to me. His strategy I likely completely disagree with (he hasn't stated one so far as I've known him), but his points aren't any less valid for that.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. OK let me get this straight..so you are saying

He bitches, he moans, his strategy is ineffective, his style is goofy..in fact he doesn't have a strategy...other than that it's a really effective post.

I guess where I am coming from is that one is always creating SOMETHING...so..given all of the above...what is he creating? Expansion or entropy?

[jpgray]

35. The post is effective because we're here talking about it. :-)

That's the measure of most DU posts, as far as I know. But at any rate the important thing to me is that his views are valuable. They aren't unique by a long shot, but they are valuable.

I just think that thought put into these things isn't a waste of time even if no effective actions result from it. To me, hearing his big picture look at the election doesn't hurt me because my strategy in this election isn't to wholly fix the mess we are in, the mess most people here knew we were in to begin. Because of that, the ideas in this thread just confirm to me that I need to help the country make even the smallest step away from what Bush represents--knowing how deep the country's problems run doesn't change that. So I think one's own personal beliefs about what should be done make the difference when reading a thread like this one. If one's strategy is to wholly wash his/her hands of the system and pontificate on how bad it is, this thread will have a different meaning, obviously.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. But he isnt saying that. He is equating the two as being the same

I am glad that you can walk away with "what Bush represents and pulling the country back from that" but that is not at all what HE is saying...therefore, it isn't HIS view that you find palletable but the view you created independent of HIS view which equates both players as bookends.

[jpgray]

41. He's taking the big picture view

If you only want to recognize differences on these deep systemic problems, they are virtually the same. Kerry is not going to be able to stop much of what DF mentions above. The big picture view is useful to keep in mind, but in my opinion it is nothing to act on, because the bigger the picture the more imperfect the choices and the more you will be paralyzed by inaction. DF knows there are differences, but from the viewpoint he describes, they are all hidden. If you point out the sicknesses we have as a country rather than as two parties, of course there won't be many substantive differences there because the two candidates represent the systems of this country.

But I know both viewpoints and I decided to vote on the smaller scale, and from there differences between Kerry and Bush are pretty vast.

[scarletwoman]

28. He doesn't kill off MY hope, not at all.

I tried to say that in my post, but not very well, it appears.

I can experience hope and despair at the same time. I can perceive good and evil in the same phenomena. If I look from one direction I see things one way. When I look from a different direction at the very same things, they look different. I enjoy shifting my perceptions around a notion, keeps my mind nimble.

Walt Whitman said it nicely:
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

I felt alot of joy tonight, it expanded my heart. And my expanded heart has room for darkness too. One does not cancel out the other.

sw

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. Yeah but that's you

and I mean that with huge respect..not any sarcasm....there's no shortage of despair for people to confront right now...in fact, I would venture to guess it's the most renewable resource we have...but check out his subtle put downs in the text..the fact that you can see hope and despair doesn't speak to his intentions but to your ability to see.

It is not my intention to tell anyone that they "should not" vote for Kerry. Or the short one. Nice slap..about as propagandistic as the right makes them..it is only my intention to tell people they should slit their wrists rather than vote.

[scarletwoman]

36. Ah well...

All these thoughts exchanged on our screens. All of us have our own ways of responding to what others write.

I encounter many things written here that take me not quite to wrist-slitting despair, but to at least some serious teeth-gnashing, hair-pulling and head-to-wall banging.

It just happens that DF's posts aren't among those. I see your point too, however. And laud your own response to DF, fwiw.

Peace,
sw

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Right back at you

[no name no slogan]

87. I have to agree sw

What DF is saying is nothing new to me and many others who have been disappointed time and time again by a political system that's only accessible to the richest and most powerful of the country. We know darn well that both parties have many shared characteristics, and that labels like "liberal" and "conservative" are almost meaningless these days.

It's like MLK and RFK were saying in the 60s, there's only two groups left: the haves, and the have-nots. The haves are amply represented by the "mainstream" of both major parties, while the have-nots are largely unheard-from and under-represented.

And in many ways, it's starting to look that way. The middle class is shrinking, the lower class is expanding at alarming levels, and the rich class continues to get richer and richer, and turns in on itself, ignoring its obligation to the rest of the world.

It truly makes you wonder if the social contract itself is becoming passé-- something only described in the history books of the rich kids in their private schools as another of the "evils of liberalism".

Yet we still cannot give up hope. When we do that, we lose the will to fight. And we HAVE to keep fighting, and standing up against the "old boys network" that runs this country and demand justice for everyone.

I was not disappointed with the selection of John Kerry, so much as I was disappointed with the whole convention as a whole. I understand the need to be unified in November, but to stifle the speech of delegates who just wanted to make sure that we stand against imperialism (military or otherwise) and for justice because it wouldn't "look good on camera" reeks of totalitarianism, IMHO.

This is especially hard coming from a grassroots-oriented campaign, where decisions were made by consensus, and new ideas from below were not only encouraged, but celebrated by the group-- the power of "transformative politics", as Demi and Faith have talked about here in MN. A politics of meaning. A politics of HOPE. A politics of courage that's not afraid of "looking bad" on television, as long as it is honest and truly speaks to people.

Glad to see you posting here sw. I definately need to see a friendly face after reading about all the crap the MN Kucinich bloc went through this week!

:hi:

[rman]

43. What are you saying?

Are you saying Ductape should boycot corporatism by not using its machines and thus not speak out about it? Boycot has a place, but it amounts to "voting with your dollar"; the more economic weight you carry, the more impact your boycot has. It is all but democratic and not always effective.
Using the system in order to break it down can be more effective then boycoting it.

Consider this: according to your reasoning, M Moore should not make use of the "greed-flaw of capitalism" (as he calls it) to get his message out.

Indeed, as you say: everyone is complicit.
It is exactly because everyone is complicit, that the power to change it lies with that same "everybody".
Not communicating about it (as a result of boycot) won't help changing it.

[jpgray]

46. I think she is saying we all indirectly participate in this tragedy

And she is right. We don't all buy our cars and clothing from rich countries, who manufactured them in a workplace that guaranteed worker rights and environmental protections. We don't stop using oil because it is bought so dearly. We don't even INVEST in companies who do the right things, in fact some notable progressive leaders invest in companies that represent the worst of corporate America.

The big picture view eventually will implicate everyone who benefits from keeping some group of people down in the dirt, and that ends up being an awful lot of us, and those of us who are here jawing about the state of the US on a message board are clearly included, I think. :D

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. Moore didn't rail against capitalism so your example is not

correct.

It's real easy to bitch and moan...it's harder to act. Find me a DF cheerleader on this thread, including DF, who is ready to forsake their lifestyle one bit so that we may cease to be the gluttonous nation we have become.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. Mmmm...a turd in the punchbowl..just what I ordered

Frankly I think rantings as paranoid as this are no more factual nor clairvoyant than the Clinton killed Admiral Borda crap from the right.

The US has BIG problems with the manner in which it's government is run and HUGE problems with corporate control, as does EVERY developed nation in these times. It's a double edge sword...we cut them off at their head and they crush us from without rather than from within. Either way, we lose. Yeah there's a lot to be done but you are no less complicit in crushing all hope than the corporations and politicians you rail against.

I understand some regard you as an artist...I regard you more as a merchant who sells shit packaged as candy that some eat and pretend they are getting their sugar intake.

I prefer to act.

Thanks for the nice turd in the punchbowl....after all...doesn't all progress depend on the psychotic drone of a person beckoning us all to give the fuck up?

Forgive me if I did to your "art" what you would do to others' hope.

[ronabop]

21. The good thing about dying...

....is not being dead yet.

That means there's still hope.

I somewhat think that america will need another Kent State to get back on track, but a dying, or briefly dead (not all death is permanent) country culd do a hell of a lot to re-invigorate this experiment in government.

-Bop

[Droopy]

24. You know, I wish socialism worked, and

I really wish that the U.S. did not have so much to be shameful of in regards to foreign policy. But it hasn't and we do. This doesn't mean that we are dying as a nation. It just means that we have a lot to learn. I think Kerry is a step in the right direction.

[rman]

40. socialism works if it doesn't get screwed up by those

who have an interest in it not working.

[jpgray]

42. Yes, human beings seem to always get in the way of our systems

:D

[rman]

45. not just "human beings";

but human being with a certain mind-set. You know, the greedy ones who realize that "those who are fit to rule are those who know there is no morality" (L Strauss).
The rest of us have to learn to recognize them for what they are, so that we won't be fooled by them any more.

[jpgray]

47. Yes, but no large-scale system in history has contained those people

At least not to the extent that people stopped dragging others down and keeping them down to raise themselves up and stay up.

[rman]

48. such large scale systems arize because

"we" (the people) allow authority to become highly centralized, and we allow it to do so because we do not (yet) recognize the danger of highly centralized authority. The danger is that centralization enables the authority to shield itself from oversight and control by those whose interests it is supposed to serve.

[jpgray]

49. Decentralization brings its own set of problems

The leaders of one small part of this decentralized state could decide they want to control two parts and double their resources. Whatever security forces are in place for the state could be persuaded to abandon the values of an equitable system and a fair share for more than a fair share. If there are no security forces, then the state would be conquered and its people subjugated if anything of any value existed in its borders. If someone can abuse the system to enrich his or her self, it will happen. That's my view, at any rate, and since, as Goedel would say, it's impossible for us to explain ourselves, I don't see how we could devise a system that would account properly for ourselves. As long as there are people who are more ambitious and people who are less, the former will debase the latter to exalt their own selves.

I'm going to have to go to bed, but I enjoy 'pontificating' on these issues in just the same dilettante's style I've accused others of using. :) As I said above in a criticism that could be leveled at me now, in a big enough picture, the problems of the human race will show any system to be problematic, but a better system should always be our goal.

[rman]

51. sleep well, we'll talk later

-

[ThirdWheelLegend]

29. Excellent as usual df.

TWL

[Suzi Creamcheese]

50. Is this a signal that we can stop being optimistic?

[Tight_rope]

52. Hope is all I have left...I can't let it go..

[Baltimoreboy]

53. Well that certainly is insane

I don't suppose you understand that to win an election, you must beat your enemy's strength (real or perceived). No I guess not.

It's not your "intention to tell anyone that they "should not" vote for Kerry. Or the short one." Of course not. That isn't allowed. Instead, it seems the intention of your post was to walk up to that line and spit over it.

The U.S. is far from a, "failed state." That's why people from around the world still try to come here.

"There is no mother who does not tremble at the thought that it could be her own child there in the "interrogation facility," providing a little R & R for America's brave gunmen." You really must be kidding if you think every mother around the world worries about this. And nice way to fit the class ultra-left bashing of the military.

The rest of this pathetic rant I am sure will appear, as it should, all over conservative websites prooving once again how nutty some posts around here can be.

[Violet_Crumble]

57. Well that was certainly pathetic ...

The U.S. is far from a, "failed state."


Depends how you decide to define 'failed state'. Me, I prefer to call it a rogue state...

The rest of this pathetic rant I am sure will appear, as it should, all over conservative websites prooving once again how nutty some posts around here can be.

Heh. I recall one time when I ventured to one of those conservative sites to look at what was passing for thought there, and found them posting effusive praise of comments posted at DU by a now tombstoned person who'd managed to get over 10,000 posts under his belt before being given the boot. I guess that proves how nutty and muddled his posts were ;)


Why does it matter so much to you what freepers say? I didn't realise we were out to win their approval...

Violet...

[Baltimoreboy]

60. So let me get this straight

You can mock where we come from but we can't say anything about the reverse?

Isn't that a double standard?

You define America as a rogue state because you don't like what it's doing. By that definition, every state in history has met that requirement because somebody didn't like something.

Yes, we have problems. Some of them will be solved in a few months. Some won't. We're human.

What matters to me is winning in November. It matters to everyone who cares about what happens to this country. Posts like the original here could easily cost us votes.

As for the rest of your rambling post, WTF?

[Violet_Crumble]

65. Help me help you get this straight...

You can mock where we come from but we can't say anything about the reverse?

Where did I mock where you come from?

You define America as a rogue state because you don't like what it's doing.

No, I tend to define states that hold the view that they don't have to be bound by the same international laws that they insist other states must follow as being rogue states. And I don't like it when states take that road...

What matters to me is winning in November. It matters to everyone who cares about what happens to this country. Posts like the original here could easily cost us votes.

Ah, if one post on the internet is enough to lose a vote from someone who'd obviously have the intelligence of a slug, then obviously it's not the vote of someone who cares about what happens in the US, because as you said, what matters to them is winning in November, not what's being posted on conservative boards or at DU...

As for the rest of your rambling post, WTF?

If you don't understand something and want something clarified, the best approach would be to point out what you don't understand and ask without throwing in insults about the post being 'rambling', 'insane' etc. I'm always more than happy to clarify something I've said if the person asking has a genuine desire to understand and doesn't resort to slamming the post that they're not understanding...

Violet...

[Baltimoreboy]

66. You are the one calling America a rogue state

I did not refer to a large quasi continent as a backwater more suited to kangaroos and dingoes.

I don't know any state that is bound entirely by international laws. Do you? If so, please enlighten me.

I know this might surprise you, but DU has caught on and the good and bad things here are printed elsewhere.

I think the rest of the post was rambling. That is my opinion. If you don't like it, I suggest you use that button called, "ignore."

[Violet_Crumble]

67. And how is that mocking?

How is calling the US a rogue state mocking or on a par with some ignorant twaddle that you brought up about Australia?

Can you give me a list of all those other states you seem to think see themselves as being above international law the way the US thinks it is? Saying that another state at one point or another violates international law is not the same as the US attitude...

I'm quite aware that DU gets mentioned elsewhere. What I don't understand is yr focus on what conservative sites have to say. It's as if you think they actually should be given some credence when it comes to deciding what's good and bad about DU...

You asked a question about my post. I thought you may have genuinelly wanted some assistance in understanding when you asked WTF, but clearly I was mistaken. I've got no intention of putting you on ignore because I think yr replies are substandard and very muddled in their logic, but thanks for the suggestion ;)

Violet...

[Baltimoreboy]

97. Twaddle?

No matter how you slice it, that quasi continent that I dare not mention has not added a great deal to the overall welfare of the planet.

DU gets mentioned elsewhere, not just on conservative websites. What they say likely doesn't matter since they are as convinced as we are. The problem lies in situations where the original post gets quoted some place where UNDECIDED people look. When they see that, they will think the poster and things he supports are all similarly ridiculous.

I can't imagine why they would think that...

[IndianaGreen]

95. America is an imperialist state

It is Israel that is a rogue state!

I am happy to clarify that for you... :)

[Baltimoreboy]

96. The only reason Israel is considered rogue

Is that it dares to defend itself. The rest of the world would mostly like to see Israel just go away.

[IndianaGreen]

98. "Israel go away"

The rest of the world would mostly like to see Israel just go away.
How about "go away" to her side of the Green Line and stay there?

[PsychoDad]

54. A Reqreium for Amerikkka.

"To those who crouch, weeping over the bodies of loved ones, in the ruined rubble of their humble homes, it does not make a bit of difference how war crimes are phrased or framed, what "face" is painted on them"

And the bombs will keep coming, they have been promised, only now they will be "kinder, gentler" bombs, ordered by a more literate president.

"America lies dying, and the neighbors gather, murmuring outside the death chamber, they do not enter,not out of respect, but revulsion, and while the family squabbles over the good china, someone slips in, and very quietly pulls the plug."

And some remain in denial. "Maybe if we change doctors"? "She's got to get better, the old lady still has some life in her".

You are so right DTF. The old lady has flatlined, and the family is already fighting over what they can gain from her death.

[incapsulated]

55. "Heinz-Halliburton" ???

Uh, you jumped the shark with that one, Ductape. :eyes:

[burythehatchet]

58. Welcome back duct

Please do not burden me with reality while I am still high from the good shit I've been smoking over the last three days. One needs to self-medicate to walk through another day.

[DuctapeFatwa]

61. I did not intend to reply to responses to this post

but looking at the thread, it seemed impolite not to, even unkind, for some because your words are so thoughtful and moving, and for others because you seem to need a response.

You are welcome to discuss it further on the blog , as it would be difficult to do so here without implying criticism of war, war crimes, sexual abuse of children, US-funded drip genocide in Palestine, extrajudicial executions, the Policy of Starvation, torture, seizing, disappearing maiming and raping adults and minor children, and as several have pointed out, vocal opposition to these profit-critical issues is not only offensive to many, but could jeopardize the generation of additional revenues to its intended pockets.

To keep the thread size down, I have posted a follow-up on the blog, responded to some below, for those who don't want to read so many sentences, here is a Cliff Notes Version:

To all the readers and thinkers, thank you for your kind words, your love, and your tireless swineward pearlcasting, I envy and admire your talent and forbearance.

To those who wish to act, the time has come to focus efforts on saving the rest of the world from the lethal gore that spews from the exploded corpse.

When (or if, where applicable) your conscience screams louder than the mangled and defiled children, that will be your call.


=========================================


What else can we do?

That is entirely up to you. The tapestry of human history has spread before you role models that range from the people of Venezuela when faced with a US coup attempt, to the people of Germany in the 1930s.

You will make the decision that is right for you.
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You lost me at "As"

Hey, reading isn't for everybody.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do something.

I believe very strongly that it is beyond prudent to keep online identities and activities completely separate, with no identifiable connection whatsoever.
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you offend alot of people here

I only wish that raping children offended more of them as much as my refusal to accept it offends them.
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Democrats, liberals and progressives expect, nay, demand a lot more from the people claiming to represent them.

Thank you for your kind words. I wish I could agree with you on what is demanded of those who claim to represent Democrats or anybody else, however, as we have just seen, all that is demanded is that the walls be painted with a new color, even as the foundation crumbles, and the bright new walls collapse in a heap.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

pissing on the parade

And with your consent and approval, paid by your money, an unknown number of your beloved troops are pissing on a bleeding Muslim child. Thoughtless of me to mention such a thing when the hors d'ourves on the silver platter before you are so tempting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The day YOU go to poor villages in Africa and care for the sick and dying and help them to learn preventive measures to save the lives of their families and communities is the day you'll earn the right to criticize Teresa Heinz Kerry.

Your assumptions are as interesting as your pronouncements are presumptive. Promotion from humble thoughtcop on the street to GrosKomandant is well deserved. I would add one cautionary note, however. The depopulation of Africa is a longstanding US policy that enjoys wide bipartisan support. It does not become even newly decorated high level operatives to accuse she whom you would install as First Lady of the land of acting in opposition to US business interests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for jumping back for this

Thank YOU for all the inspiring, and all the informing you do.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


naked association with either Stalinists and Nazi's didn't pan out

Seems to be panning out quite nicely. It has already rendered many people incapable of conceiving of the possibility of independent thought and principles that are not for sale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

no better chance of ending the secret prisons under Kerry than under Bush, I disagree.

To his credit, Kerry has made no such claim, and I believe he is sincere in his vow to continue current US policy and prosecute it more forcefully. I would not accuse him of harboring secret plans to betray his benefactors by reneging on his promise to send more of your money their way.
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you'd think that ridding the world of Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz... would be enough of a reason to sigh a breath of relief.

I have no reason to doubt that Rand Beers will be able to implement current US foreign policy as creditably and brutally as either Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


direction more likely to result in LESS annihilation

Kerry is not promising that, nor advocating it. He promises to do it better and harder. His selling point is that he knows first hand what it takes to do it, and that he is willing to bribe other people to join him in it. You swallowed the sausage, you might as well digest it.
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No modern nation would meet the criteria of an equitable system

Sad, and true. However neither does any modern nation approach the morally bankrupt depravity of the US, nor its uselessness and unfitness for any attempt on the part of the rest of the world to drag that other moral foot out of the stone age.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
call to anything in his post..except hopelessness and defeat

It's not about the US anymore. That's over. It's also just one country in a big world. If there is any hope, that hope is that the rest of the world can avoid being dragged down to the same pit. Don't worry about the call part. Your bell already tolled.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
slit their wrists rather than vote.

No, I am saying that your wrists are long slit and bled out, and whether and how you vote is a matter between you and the Diebold company.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
who is ready to forsake their lifestyle one bit...some regard you as an artist

Your speculations on my lifestyle would be far too fascinating and fantastic for this humble thread. You are the artist here. Embrace your creativity. Consider a blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The good thing about dying... ....is not being dead yet. That means there's still hope.


There is still hope for the rest of the world, yes. The US, contrary to popular American opinion, is not the sum nor owner of the universe, and the death of the US does not equate the end of the world.
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doesn't mean that we are dying as a nation

No, it means you are dead as a nation. See reply above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hope is all I have left...I can't let it go

Without intending to appear to trivialize or denounce palliative treatment for the doomed, if you have hope, I would suggest that you refocus it away from the late United States and onto the rest of the world, where it might indeed blossom into something productive as well as psychologically comforting.
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What matters to me is winning in November.

I do not suggest that anything else matters to you, nor would I accuse you of not knowing exactly what you seek to "win."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


to win an election, you must beat your enemy's strength

I can assure you I understand it quite well, as well as George Wallace did in 1958, and I have no doubt that Kerry is able and willing to live up to his promise to produce even more dead Muslim children than Bush.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this pathetic rant I am sure will appear, as it should, all over conservative websites...

I believe it has already appeared on at least one..
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the family is already fighting over what they can gain from her death.

and plotting to infect the aunts with the same germs.

------------------------------------------------------------

[Eric J in MN]

64. The Bill Clinton Administration didn't electrically shock prisoners,

or hold prisoners secretly.

I don't know why you would expect a John Kerry Administration to be worse then the Bill Clinton Administration.

[IndianaGreen]

94. The Clinton Administration did use a new version of Agent Orange

in Colombia that has caused birth defects and still births in cattle and humans. It was Clinton that gave us the death squads of Plan Colombia!

You can Google all sorts of articles about what the US is really doing in Colombia:

Health and Environmental Effects of Herbicide Spray Campaigns in Colombia
Jim Oldham and Rachel Massey
March 18, 2002

Introduction

In February 2002, a three-year peace process in Colombia came to an end with President Andrés Pastrana's decision to retake the demilitarized zone ceded to rebel forces in 1998 as a safe haven for peace talks.2 With this decision, Colombia appears to have returned to full-scale civil war, continuing a decades-long cycle of violence. Ostensibly with the purpose of supporting the "war on drugs," both the Clinton and the Bush administrations have provided substantial military aid to Colombia.3 The majority of U.S. aid to Colombia consists of assistance to the Colombian military and police forces. These forces are closely tied to paramilitary organizations responsible for the most serious human rights violations in Colombia's vicious civil war.4 Recently, the Bush administration expanded the possible scope of U.S. military aid to Colombia, requesting Congressional approval for $98 million in military aid to protect an oil pipeline. Some lawmakers advocate providing US military equipment for counterinsurgency operations as well.

The pretext for U.S. military aid to Colombia remains the effort to halt the drug trade. In this context, a key element of the aid is support for aerial spraying of herbicides in regions where drug crops are produced. Under U.S. sponsorship, large areas of the Colombian countryside are being sprayed by plane with herbicides. Supporters say these campaigns eradicate coca plants and opium poppies, the raw materials for cocaine and heroin respectively, and will thereby reduce production of these drugs.

According to the U.S. State Department, “the spray mixture (used) against coca throughout Colombia…contains three components: water, a commercially available formulation of the herbicide glyphosate, and the surfactant cosmo-flux 411f.”6 While the U.S. government has refused to name the brand name of the glyphosate herbicide,7 it has been widely reported to be Roundup Ultra, an herbicide made by the agrochemical company Monsanto.8 These reports have been confirmed by the Narcotics Division of the Colombian National Police in information provided to the Colombian People’s Ombudsman.9 The composition of Roundup Ultra (41% glyphosate, 14.5% surfactant, and 44.5% water 10 ) also corresponds exactly to a description of the unnamed herbicide provided by the U.S. Embassy in Bogotá.

http://isis.hampshire.edu/amazon/colombia/review.pdf

USA prepares to wage biological warfare on Colombia

http://www.peace.ca/usabiologicalwarcolumbia.htm

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rumguy]

63. hahahahahahahaha

"There is no nation on earth whose people do not fear being invaded and overrun by US funded hordes of torturers and sexual predators"

Unbelievable.

[Aidoneus]

68. Name a single country or region.

that hasn't been messed with in the last, oh, 100yrs.

There has been great efficiency in such brutal matters, past and present--all across the map..

[jdonaldball]

70. Iceland

Well you did ask.

[Aidoneus]

80. I came up with 5..

Iceland, French Guiana, Bhutan, Comoros, and maybe Monaco.

Nobody fucks with Iceland.--the other point remains.

[jdonaldball]

81. Might have been some CIA in Bhutan

It's close to Nepal, where there has been some marginal CIA interest, potential flash point.

[Aidoneus]

85. I thought of that.. it's also on China's border

near Burma, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't for those 2 reasons (besides the usual others), but I just couldn't think of anything.

That's more India's backyard, like some corners of Africa are instead left for Europe to meddle in and re-rape.. that passes for a "multilaterist" foreign policy that is to be harkened back to.

[paulk]

69. you need to get out more, DF

do some travelling.

See the world...

[JohnLocke]

71. Demagogical bullshit.

[tlcandie]

72. DF...thanks for sharing and TRYING to open some eyes..

You've certainly given me a LOT to digest. As depressing as some believe this writing to be, it seems to me to be quite the obvious.

It reminds me of the death of a loved one who has long suffered and your only wish is for them to be free from the bounds of this space and time. Once they find their freedom, their release, it is bittersweet for you, but nonetheless a relief that lightens your innermost being.

Then you take what lessons you've learned and implement them in your life and dealings with other beings whom you come into contact.

I am also one of those who have missed your posts and wondered where you had gone!

We can argue all day, but the simple truth is no one can ever go back. If DF's words come to be empty, it is still true that America will never be what she was created to be without a DRASTIC change which is what many of us had hoped would happen with the likes of Kucinich.

Once something becomes salty or leavened, how do you remove those things? You can't.

I'm willing to wait and watch...hope in the mean time, yet prepare for the worst while waiting. Not all of our paths are the same. Some see into the future easier than others and more objectively without the weights of this life keeping them bound in the dark matter of this world.

DF... :hug: Keep up the great work!!!

[JohnLocke]

73. More "Bush=Kerry" nonsense.

"Whether its figurehead is tall or short, literate and urbane or a neurological wreck living with challenges developmental and emotional does not matter to the next child to die, or wish he would, so that the ruling lords of Halliburton, or Heinz, or an optimist merger of Heinz-Halliburton can have more money than most American serfs can even conceive of."

:eyes:

[burythehatchet]

77. I think you're wrong JohnLocke

this is nothing to do with Kerry/Bush

[JohnLocke]

78. What?

[burythehatchet]

79. huh?

[rumguy]

82. I could have written your little screed for you

It's so unoriginal. It's just rehashed hyperbole I've heard a million times before.

You single out the bad and ignore the good. You lay all the faults of human nature at America's doorstep.

[rumguy]

83. I find it funny how you post this and then just flee

What are you afraid of?

[DuctapeFatwa]

99. You are welcome to see post 61, you will need to scroll

to see replies to several points, if you arrived too late or feel you have one that is not addressed, as indicated in the aforementioned post 61, you can discuss it on the blog.

[rumguy]

84. When you write something like this

do you feel any sense of shame?

"There is no nation on earth whose people do not fear being invaded and overrun by US funded hordes of torturers and sexual predators, there is no mother who does not tremble at the thought that it could be her own child there in the 'interrogation facility,' providing a little R & R for America's brave gunmen."

I found this to be so out of bounds and so on-its-face ridiculous it's almost beyond commenting on.

[Aidoneus]

86. When you read something like that

do you feel any sense of shame at the truth of it?

[rumguy]

88. It's over the top hyperbole

It's intent is not to educate, it's intent is only to inflame....

It has no value.

[Aidoneus]

89. a sacred cow struck with a tuning fork

Even then, it beats the disorientating opiates tossed back in these parts most of the time. Your intent seems not to refute, but to merely make known your pavlovian discomfort at the contents. The reflexive gasp seems to be a built-in feature to the party enforcer moths drawn to this bright flame..

[rumguy]

90. lol

I think I'll let your statement just dangle out there for all to see...

[Aidoneus]

91. and I'll let your effective silence do the same

-A.

[jdonaldball]

92. It's over the top but

so are many of the recent posts about how all the convention speeches were brilliant etc.
A reminder of the darkness can be healthy when people are staring into the sunlight for too long.