DNC Delegate Arrested After Being Refused Entry To Fleet Center

[deutsey]

Does anyone know anything more about this? Goodman was interviewing the delegate as police led him away, under arrest, from the convention.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/30/1515205

SNIP

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: I couldn't get in. They wouldn't let me in.

AMY GOODMAN: Why not?

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: I am being arrested for trying to fulfill my state and i am a delegate.

AMY GOODMAN: Where are you a delegate from?

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: I’m a delegate from the state of Oklahoma.

AMY GOODMAN: And were you elected?

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: I was elected and I couldn't go up because there were too many special people, they had special privileges other than I.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean by that?

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: Well, guests of congressmen, special VIPs that didn't have, that weren't elected. And I couldn't go up. These guys arrested me for staying there.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think it's worth being arrested?

OKLAHOMA DELEGATE: I think it is.

SNIP

[Jim Sagle]

1. Another asshole "expose" from an asshole lefty-left.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Well for heaven's sake, if this is true, don't you think it's important?

I sincerely hope they didn't screw up the head count and not leave enough room for all of the delegates to go in. They were kind of the most important people there.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[Jim Sagle]

12. A little sense of proportion might help. Just a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Just a SLIGHT awareness of how important this election really is. Just ONCE the lefty-lefts MIGHT pay a LITTLE attention to the world outside their oh-so-sensitive antennae.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Sorry, but I have no idea what you are babbling about

Care to clarify?

And do watch out for traffic as you stand there in the middle of the road.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[Jim Sagle]

27. So anyone who supports Kerry is middle of the road? BS.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Never said that. I although I disagree with his platform in many respects

he has my support in that I will check his name off this fall. And I am so far off the road as to be on the sidewalk.

However, you seem to think that there are no folks on the left who are voting for Kerry, even if only to dislodge *. I would just like to point out to you that that is not the case. So stop locking horns with folks just cause they are on the left side of things. You want their vote for Kerry? Fine, you got it. You want them to shut up about what _they_ envision for a better America? Never.

[FlaGranny]

36. Some take every opportunity

to post negative reports - maybe they want us to vote for Ralph Nader? They'll search every blog, every newpaper, and every network until they can find something negative to post, but I'm sure you've noticed. ;)

[Ani Yun Wiya]

44. Not at all "middle of the road"

Actually that support comes from the righty-right wing of the party.

[truthspeaker]

17. Respect? This was an elected DELEGATE.

How about a little respect for the democratic process?

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. Jim, Jim Big Tent remember? We cannot do this to ourselves. All voices

should be heard or we are no better. :hi:

[Jim Sagle]

41. I do understand that, but does Amy Goodman? And will she ever support

us? Or will she insist on political veganism?

I know it's wrong to turn away a legitimate delegate, but can we not show just a TRACE of common-sense balance? If w "wins", many of us will soon be in Gitmo. A GLIMMER of a clue would help her newscasts immeasurably.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

47. I don't want your respect.

[tinanator]

50. how incredibly fortunate

no one seems to get yours anyway.

[Elidor]

51. How does pointing out a wrong at our convention help W* win?

Tenuous logic. Get past the source of the reporting and consider the story itself.

[deutsey]

3. Nice big tent you got there

:eyes:

[Selwynn]

11. Fuck the abuse of the "big tent" phraseology.

You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of "big tentism" being used as a slogan to mean that we should be open and receptive to people with fundamentally polar opposite values.

Yeah, I'm a bastard without a "big tent" because I don't reach out with open arms to neo-conservatives. Of course no one would think I was wrong and that. But when we don't open our arms and reach out to pseudo-purist fundamentalist ideologues we're in the wrong.. :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. What the heck does this have to do with delegates being closed out?

Yeah, Democracy Now is left-leaning, no doubt about it. But do you really feel no concern that delegates might have been left out of the process?

[deutsey]

19. I have no idea what you're talking about

I'm not abusing anything, nor am I a "pseudo-purist fundamentalist ideologue" (nor am I an actual-purist fundamentalist ideologue, for that matter).

I'm of the left, yes. The ideologically pure left? No. The "asshole lefty-left"? No, whatever that is. But the left, the same left that was one of the pillars of the New Deal and the best of the Great Society. The left that spearheaded the civil rights movement, the labor movement, the anti-war movement. Perhaps Democrats today are ashamed of the left that worked with the center and, yes, even the conservatives in the Democratic Party to transform America for the better between the '30s and '60s. I'm not. But apparently there are enough people in today's Democratic Party who are ashamed, or, like you, angry at the left I am part of, so much so that they block us from expressing our viewpoint freely or they try to shut us up with concise, articulate, thought-provoking critiques such as yours or "Another asshole 'expose' from an asshole lefty-left."

Sorry that I'm not dripping with the rudeness or vituperativeness in my response as you and the other person showed. But I refuse to be part of the New Democratic Party that the two of you apparently represent.

[nomaco-10]

24. Woo Hoo Well Said! Thanks for expressing the views of....

a great many of us that are still proud to be referred to as the left in the "new" dem party. You are not alone, infact I'd say you're in some pretty good company, my friend. KUDOS to you and keep telling it like it is.

[Selwynn]

30. What's hilarious about this..

..is that I'm pretty much left of the dali lama. But I don't like the "big tent" concept in the way it is now being used. I don't like it when people use it to jump on anyone who is critical of anyone else. I don't have to accept every single view across the entire ideological spectrum, nor should I, nor should the party. Instead we should stand for something, and standing for something means our "tent" can never include everyone.

That's the only point I was making here. I'm sick and tired of people throwing "big tent" in the faces of others. Whether Jim was being unfair or not is a separate issue for me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. Then I'd be outside of the tent. And so would most of us...all of us,

because no two of us are identical in every belief that we hold...hence the "big tent". We have been shutting our own out for too long based on petty differences.

[Selwynn]

29. That's swell, Jim wasn't talking about you, but you were talking about him

You just gave a nice self-explaination about your own point of view, which is great. I'm with you. But I wasn't calling you a pseduo-purist funadmentalist ideologue, I was saying that just because we don't make a place in the party for people who only want to see the party destroyed is not a bad thing. Jim feels this guy is likely to fit that bill - fair or not it has nothing to do with you.

My only beef is that I don't like "big tent" being thrown around every time somone rejects someone else's point of view.

[deutsey]

31. It's been a long, emotional week

not to mention a long, hellish four years.

:-)

[LWolf]

23. So much for the thin veneer of unity.

Those of us on the left have one asshole each...just like everyone else.

Democrats who support the suppression of dissent and freedom of expression are just as responsible for the current destruction of America as the conservative right, in my opinion as a "lefty-left" DEMOCRAT.

:thumbsdown:

[G_j]

53. I'm with you on that

also I don't understand where the "lefty-left" thing is related to the issue of an elected delegate being kept out of the convention.
Something is very convoluted about this conversation.

bottom line: was it right or was it wrong?

[Kanary]

4. They closed off the escalators 3 hours before the speech

But, we're not supposed to see the repression.

I'm really looking forward to hearing ALL the inside skinny from my Kucinich delegate friend, when she gets back. I'm sure there are some really hairy stories.

This should sound the alarm for ALL of us.

Kanary, another asshole leftist, obviously unwelcome in her party.......... :thumbsdown:

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Yeah, I do wonder if Kucinich delegates and Kerry delegates

had a different take on the whole convention.

Thing is, if there are legit concerns brought up by the Kucitizens, I worry that they will be dismissed as having eaten sour grapes.

[Kanary]

20. Them, dismissed? Just like we are here?

Yeah, that whole "sour grapes" thing. It HAS to be just a childish pout that our candidate didn't win. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that we're really worried about our country.

Naw, we're all just asshole leftists.

Yes, the Kerry people had driven the wedge before people even left home for the convention. I heard about some of those pressuring teleconferences. Not pretty.

A clue about the future.

Kanary

[GreenArrow]

26. "a clue about the future"

Either you're with us, or you're against us.

Bush has infected the country with his bipolar bromides.

[Kanary]

38. "bipolar bromides"

Just say "NO!!"

:toast:

Kanary

[chiburb]

28. I know you read (and ignored) my questions in #18...

But here's one for you:

Would you be equally upset if this turns out to be a Kerry delegate?

Ok, one more:

How did this impact the delegate's elected duties? I thought the delegates did their thing on Thursday. This delegate only missed a speech, not a vote.

[Kanary]

54. Actually, I have NO idea who he was a delegate *for*. Do you?

"Only missed a speech"?

Amazing......... such caring and sensitivity for those who make the effort -- and spend the money!-- to go to the convention in order to work for the very candidate you support.

If this is the attitude, why would anyone even care a drop about the Party?

Amazing....

Kanary

[cheezus]

5. um, the ballons didn't drop right either.

at an event this large there are going to be fuckups. So long as this case was the exception, not the rule, I'm not too pissed. My sympathies go out to this delegate though.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. And that's the nail on the head.. Exception, not the rule

That had better be the case.

--------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry, John Edwards, and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[cheezus]

9. that shit happens when your party is too cool

I heard TV reports that delegates were coming in in groups. Then one would collect all the passes and go back out and get another group, and so on.

What can we say, it was such a rocking party that everyone wanted in!

[deutsey]

8. I don't care at all about the balloons

but I do care about an elected delegate being blocked entrance to the convention because unelected VIPs were allowed in instead.

That's why I'm asking if anyone knows anything more about this. One of the frustrating things about Democracy Now! this week is brief stories like this that have no follow-up or are not placed in a larger context.

So, has anyone heard any updates on the delegate?

[cheezus]

10. i care too, but you're missing my point

in anything that large, some things are bound to go wrong. I feel bad for the delegate, but unless this is widespread, it's not a big deal.

[deutsey]

13. Not missing your point at all

In fact, I'm reinforcing it when I say I'm looking for more information on this story and whether it's a blip or a pattern.

The thing that bothers me most, even if it is a blip, or a fuck up, is that an elected delegate is turned away and arrested because, as he claims, VIPs have taken his place. In my opinion, for what it's worth, if you're an elected delegate your spot on the floor is yours no matter what. Maybe that's me being naive...

[nomaco-10]

14. It's not possible......

The story you relate cannot be true. Everything was "perfect". Every sign was perfectly printed and color coordinated to look the same, the applause sign did not malfunction. All the speakers gave perfect speeches written specifically for them by the Kerry staff. None of the people in the pit even needed to get stitches from the razor wire. It was perfect, I tell you, accept for the "f'ing" balloon thing.

[chiburb]

18. Arrested for refusing to leave...from the same site:

"Democracy Now! was inside the FleetCenter to cover Kerry's speech but the halls of the convention filled up quickly and security personel shut off access to the floor a full three hours before Kerry's address. Fire marshalls and police special forces barred spectators, journalists and even elected delegates with the proper passes from getting up the escalators to get to the convention floor. Police forces then formed a line and forced people out of the building and onto the street. One delegate from Oklahoma standing at the foot of the escalator quietly refused to leave. "

They locked Will Pitt out too, but he snuck in a side door. Was this delegate warned to be on the floor 3 hours ahead of the speech? Did the delegate have any responsibility to comply with the convention's rules?

Just asking...

[Kanary]

21. Oh yeah, "just asking".....

:crazy:

[deutsey]

22. I'm just asking too

And I'll ask again:

Does anyone (maybe from Oklahoma) have any more information on this?

And with all due respect to Will, but if he wasn't an elected delegate then to me it's not that big a deal that he didn't get in. I think the thing that is distasteful about this incident is I believe the elected delegate's spot on the floor should be sacrosanct. So, in other words, the organizers should make certain that there is enough room for all delegates and then let in x number of non-elected participants beyond that number.

But your questions are good ones and I'm trying to see if anyone has any answers instead of spitting venom (I'm not saying you are, but others on this thread certainly are).

[chiburb]

25. Good. Because I'm not spitting venom...

But I find it hard to understand how so many of us refuse to ask these (and other questions) before ASSUMING the worst. If I were an elected delegate who screwed up by being late (I said IF), I'd be looking to make excuses too.
But DUers who jump on ANY bandwagon that makes Dems look like Pugs need to be called out. I haven't done that, just asking questions.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Some of us are a little touchy after the Florida voting debacle in 2000

and get worried when we hear that folks aren't being allowed to do their civic duty.

Yes, we may jump to conclusions and assume the worst, but it's better than blowing it off, as some might do because it was only "one" delegate, or maybe a delegate for the "wrong" candidate.

[chiburb]

35. Ok, since you responded...

I'll ask you the questions I asked in #28: (No, I'll ask one question)

How was this delegate denied from fulfilling his/her sworn duties by being denied entry? Wasn't the vote on Thursday? This delegate missed the speech and balloons.

Ah, one more:

Do you know that this was anything but a Kerry delegate? Would it have mattered to you?

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. I honestly do not know if all the duties were fulfilled, however

let's assume they WERE fulfilled, but what if in case of a screw-up they needed the delegates present? Is there any kind of provision in the party (and, no, not being a Dem I don't know the answer to this) that requires the delegates to be present at the convention?

And no, it makes no difference to me who the delegate stood for. I was mad about disenfranchised blacks who would have voted for Gore, but I would have been just as mad about say, disenfranchised Cubans who would have voted for Bush.

[sandnsea]

34. Oh, security measures

That's a shame, but that is the way it goes. The vote had been cast the night before, so I don't think a delegate had any particular responsibility to meet. It's too bad to travel all that way and miss the big event, must really suck.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Bull S**t: Even Senators were turned away

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/elections/orl-asecmaxwell30073004jul30,1,4703770.column?coll=orl-home-promo

If this delegate had been doing his or her job they would have been on the convention floor at 4:00. They didn't close off access until later in the evening.

[deutsey]

45. Well, at least someone has provided some new information

Thanks. I'm not going to log into the site just to read this article, but I'll take you at your word that a senator was turned away. If I'm understanding you correctly, this helps put the story in perspective.

Although, frankly, I still believe elected delegates should be guaranteed a spot on the floor. Not knowing more details about what happened (i.e., how late the delegate was, etc.), I can't say much more. That never seems to stop anyone here at DU, though. :evilgrin:

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. Wouldn't you also agree that delegates should be in the convention venue

when the convention is going on? If this delegate from OK had been somewhere else earlier this would not have been a problem, as they did not close off access untill well after the convention started.

[deutsey]

48. I believe that's what I said

Not knowing how late he was, etc.

Even so, I believe that elected delegates should be able to arrive five minutes beforehand if they want to and know they have a seat. They're an elected official and, theoretically, the convention takes place as a forum for these elected representatives.

Perhaps I'm overstating it, but it's like a US Senator being denied access into the Senate chamber because friends of other Senators are sitting in his or her seat. I know that wouldn't happen, but I believe the same principle should apply to the convention. These delegates are not just "conventioneers" in town for a good time (or are they? Maybe I'm completely wrong in my understanding that delegates are elected by Democrats to represent them at the convention). If I understand this correctly, they are elected representatives and, therefore, have certain privileges like our other elected officials do in this context. That should apply, as far as I'm concerned, at the Big Event just like it does at the boring minor events.

[Kitka]

49. When you look down upon dissent for the sake of a Democrat's campaign

you’re putting yourself in the company of those who look down on dissent on Bush’s behalf.

You can’t bash Amy Goodman for simply interviewing a delegate. Perhaps you disagree that they should have been allowed to enter, but to say that they shouldn’t be interviewed and have the right to report the story is advocating manipulating the news and that’s what I thought people here were interesting in fighting.

[chiburb]

52. Couldn't agree more. Too bad she did such a poor job of reporting...

Did she ask the delegate:

1. How he/she knew that guests and bigwigs took his/her seat if she/he wasn't allowed inside?

2. Did she/he know what time he/she was supposed to be seated before the access was cut off?

3. Who he/she was delegating for?

Maybe if she'd done her job as a reporter, she wouldn't be suspected of having an agenda?