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9/11 and Iraq are NOT connected! (repeat after me)

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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 02:35 PM
Original message
9/11 and Iraq are NOT connected! (repeat after me)
I was showing a friend the bit from Kerry's speech about patriotism and the flag (that still gets me - right here). She's a Repub, but pretty openminded, meaning we can discuss without her getting nasty. She knows how upset I've been about people calling me a commie traitor for being against the war and against Bush.

She agreed with Kerry's statement, and said that everybody should have a voice in America. She continued saying we disagree about the war, she had heard the other day that 600 soldiers have died in Iraq (600!) so far, but she can't help remembering the 3,000 who died in 9/11, so 600 is hardly anything, because we have to get the people responsible for 9/11. AAACCCKKK!

I told her that Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks. Her response? See, we disagree, but that's OK. Why can't these people open their friggin' eyes?!

:grr:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because they cannot see that they have been lied to
accepting that means that they were misled

Also these folks cannot see the troops who have died in the face...

(For the record over 900)
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah, I know it's over 900...
Her low balling the number is another sign of her eyes being wide shut.

It's a shame, too, because she is generally an intelligent, and as I said, openminded woman.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. 9/11 and Iran are not connected, either!
Anyone catch the slimy Bush*co attempt to float that one a couple of weeks ago? :puke:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why can't they open their frigging eyes?
I told her that Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks. Her response? See, we disagree, but that's OK. Why can't these people open their friggin' eyes?!<<

It is easier to go with the flow rather than swim against it. I consider a person to have a lazy mind who will not dig into the facts for themselves and come to a "real" conclusion. Down the rabbit hole they go... and some never come out again. Toss your friend a carrot now and then......

http://www.johnmccrory.com/wrote.asp?this=325
>>But, someone in the White House told the New York Times that, in fact, the President's unwillingness to admit any mistakes was based on "polls and focus group studies":<<
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Take your friend on a little trip
here: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

Surprising that it's on CNN but they have the actual counts, along with the pictures of every soldier killed, their name, age, unit and any info on how each soldier was killed. It's mind numbing when you keep going down the line. Maybe that will wake her up a bit. Get her to start thinking. One can hope!
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even while the U.S. was attacking Iraq:
Published on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 by Reuters
Bin Laden Labels Saddam an Infidel - Jazeera TV
by Samia Nakhoul

DUBAI - A taped message believed to be from fugitive militant Osama bin Laden on Tuesday warned Arab nations against supporting a war against Iraq as threatened by the United States -- but branded Saddam Hussein an infidel.


Osama bin Laden is seen in this April 1998 photo. The al-Jazeera Arab satellite station broadcast a new audio statement from bin Laden on Tuesday, Feb. 11, 2003, in which he expresses solidarity with the Iraqi people but labels Saddam Hussein an 'infidel'. A broadcast editor at al-Jazeera said the tape appears to be authentic because the television station got it through the same means as previous bin Laden statements.(AP Photo/file)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm


Osama Rallies Muslims, Condemns Hussein

By William Rivers Pitt, TruthOut.com. Posted February 12, 2003.


In a taped statement, bin Laden told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam Hussein. Yet Colin Powell claimed that Hussein and bin Laden are working together, and MSNBC omitted the reference in its news report. Story Tools


Osama bin Laden rose from the dead yet again on Tuesday to prophesy doom and death for America. This is nothing new; he has been clawing his way out of various burial holes for seventeen months now, and always manages to strike fear into the American heart by way of the American media and the Bush administration at exactly the moment when incredibly important shifts in history are in the offing.

At this moment, George W. Bush stands almost completely alone in his desire to make pre-emptive war on the nation of Iraq. Several key NATO allies -- France, Germany and Belgium among them -- have thrown sand into the gears of battle by refusing to prepare Turkey for an immediate war they do not support nor deem necessary. As this incredible state of affairs unfolded, Americans found their ears ringing with orange-hued warnings of imminent death. Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge went so far as to tell people to load up on plastic sheeting and duct tape so as to bar their windows from chemical attack, but the administration he calls home made sure to tell people to live their lives normally and continue shopping.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15176

That one came from Will Pitt.



THe facts are that Osama Bin Laden vehemently opposed any government that was not specifically and totally based on Islamic law, and oppposed all leaders of ations with a largely Muslim population who lead secular governments.


More:

U.S. officials were quick to point out that the bin Laden message directly incriminates Iraq and proves the existence of ties between bin Laden's al-Qaeda and Saddam. U.S. media touted the official line before even hearing the tape, or awaiting a reliable translation. "Undeniably links Iraq with al-Qaeda," says one CNN anchor.



And then something happened that neither the U.S. administration nor the media anticipated: bin Laden called Saddam an apostate.



The audio message goes on to reveal that bin Laden believes Saddam to be a socialist and declares that "socialists and communists are unbelievers," thereby labeling Saddam an apostate of Islam, an infidel. It is worth mentioning that the government of Iraq is quasi-socialist and secular, and not Islamic.


Walid Phares, an Arabic-speaking MSNBC analyst finds that the audio message undermines Saddam's regime: "Osama bin Laden does not care about Saddam, in fact he can't wait till the demise of Saddam; he is trying to position himself to offer Iraqis an alternative ideology – he calls socialism abhorrent to Islam."


The voice alleged to be bin Laden's in the audio message also called for the spilling of Saddam's blood: "His blood is halal." This wording is used to indicate what is permissive or legally allowed for the killing of a usurper or criminal.



Anyone even mildly familiar with Islamic law wouldbe aware that these statements by Osama bin Laden indicate that he is calling for the death of Saddam Husein based on his abandoning Islam for another ideology, Baath Socialism. Under Islamic Sharia law, the punishment for apostasy or turning away from Islam is death. There is no vagueness in the terminology used. If a Muslim evenconvenrts to another one of the monotheistic faiths like Jusaism or Christianity, they are under sentence of death and technically all Muslims are called to carry out that sentace under Islamic law, though you would not see many such attempts in a nation like the U.S.

I know a woman who converted from Islam to Christianity, and had to flee from her native Pakistan because her conversion was gave license to other Muslims to off her, essentially, so this practice still goes on in areas that are most fundamentalist in their practice of Islam.

As usual, Bush has used the ignorance of Americans to make connection where there are none, Not only where there are none, but where the two parties supposedly in league with each other are bitter enemies.

Unfortunately, America, the largest nation on earth, is so wrapped up in itself, that it is totally unaware of the rest of the world.

This is heavily linked to America's conservatism. It reminds me of the belief held in China for centuries that it was the "Middle Kingdom", that nothing that came from the outside of Chiina was of any value. That everything and everyone else was barbarian.

China was very easily ripped to pieces by much smaller nations, but nations that were much more liberal in their ideologies. George Bush, his ideologues, and Fundamentalist Christianity are the as the three pillars that collapsed over the last Chinese Dynasty. Emperor, Conservative Mandarin Bureacracy, and Backwards looking Confucianism.

America must be rid of conservatism or collapse.




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