Call Reuters and complain about this lie: [phone]

[Melodybe]

It says only 693 Us troops have been killed since the war to oust Saddam began. A complete and utter lie, almost 1000 of our sons and daughters have been killed, they are going to hear it from me.

Behold the lie for yourself:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040814/wl_nm/iraq_casualties_dc

[Sloppyfourths]

1. They are referencing KIAs

[Melodybe]

2. It doesn't say that though, it says,

"The deaths brought to 693 the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq since last year's U.S.-led invasion to oust former President Saddam Hussein."

[Sloppyfourths]

3. It's the KIA number

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. WTF are you talking about?

Stop repeating yourself and say something.

[DrWeird]

6. That WAS the KIA number...

from several months ago.

It's well over 900 now.

To bad some people like you cover up the deaths of our soldiers for political purposes. That's so unamerican.

[Sloppyfourths]

8. No you're Just wrong

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[DrWeird]

13. So there was a soldier...

who was riding in a Humvee through a suburb of Baghdad when he came under enemy fire. Outgunned, he strategically retreated, but his Humvee was disabled by enemy fire and the soldier struck a wall, he was killed instantly. His death was ruled an accident by the pentagon. He's not on your little list of KIAs there.

Even though he was KIA. You know he was KIA. Everybody knows he was KIA. Like I said, it's a shame people have to lie and cover this kind of thing up just to make some retard politician look better. It's so unamerican.

[Sloppyfourths]

16. No

Your example means he died because of hostile action. He is KIA

[DrWeird]

17. Exactly.

But the pentagon ruled it an accident and he's not an "official" KIA. He's not even considered one of the 934 so far killed.

Which means you're blatantly ignoring the deaths of US soldiers for political purposes. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

24. Well I could...

assuming the other person was a real man.

But since he keeps chickening out...

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

29. Fair enough.

I live in Corvallis, Oregon.

How soon can you get here?

[Sloppyfourths]

21. Here is the DOD definition

KILLED IN ACTION (kia)

Definition: (DOD) A casualty category applicable to a hostile casualty, other than the victim of a terrorist activity, who is killed outright or who dies as a result of wounds or other injuries before reaching a medical treatment facility. Also called KIA. See also casualty category.

"...dies of wounds or other injuries..." That would seem to cover your example.

[Guaranteed]

23. That's what they need to SAY, then.

They just say that 693 have been killed in Iraq- which, by itself, is an out and out LIE.

[SemperEadem]

52. who cares? They're still dead and their families are still grieving

parsing definitions aren't going to make them reanimate.

strawman alert

[Sloppyfourths]

4. This site has some info

http://icasualties.org/oif/

About 3/4 way down the page on the left side under notes.

KIAs are running about 73% of all deaths.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. So what? Who cares how the Pentagon labels their deaths. They're DEAD

Well over 900

[Sloppyfourths]

9. Because that is the way they have always done it, for every war.

Why does that bother you?

KIA is KIA.

[Melodybe]

10. But dead in Iraq is still dead.

[Sloppyfourths]

14. Some non-hostile deaths

occurred on ships off shore from heart attacks, disease, common accidents, suicides, homicides, etc. That's different than KIAs.

Many military people die everyday from rather typical causes. KIA is only from hostile action or as a result of hostile action such as in the case of Pat Tillman.

I didn't invent the terms.

[Guaranteed]

25. Right, like when a soldiers Hummer gets shot up from a rooftop

and they crash into a tree. That's not KIA, right, because he didn't actually get shot? It was an "accident."

Oh, and all the suicides, those guys shouldn't be counted either. Wars really aren't THAT stressful.

[Sloppyfourths]

27. No, that is not correct

That is a death as a result of hostile action and is a KIA.

[Guaranteed]

30. They don't count it that way.

Nor do they count the suicides, or the deaths in the hospitals days after entering.

Hummer drives off a bridge into a river rushing to help out some buddies, those dead guys don't count. Nope, gotta keep that KIA number low. Just an accident, nothing to see here.

[Sloppyfourths]

31. Not true.

KIA is defined as a death as a result of enemy or hostile action. That's it..period...end of story. Always been that way, it's that way today and it will probably always be that way.

End of message.

[Guaranteed]

33. Yes, we agree on that.

My point is that reporting only that number, in particular without even SAYING it's the KIA number, is past misleading- it's a fucking lie.

[Sloppyfourths]

34. I think both numbers should be reported

Anything else is half the truth. And that makes it a lie.

[Guaranteed]

35. Well it's a lie because people assume that

when you say something like "663 (or whatever number) American soldiers have been killed since the beginning of the war," people tend to assume you mean that exactly that many soldiers have been killed, not that, plus some.

[Sloppyfourths]

40. Well....

Military people die every day around the world whether there is a war going on or not.

Any death is tragic, military or civilian.

A certain number of military people will die in a given year from various causes; Accidents, health reasons, homicides, suicides.

The KIAs really tell the story of the war. Those people die DIRECTLY because of the war. That number is the most relevant.

Doesn't dishonor anyone else who dies but it does tell the real and accurate human cost of the war. IMO

[Guaranteed]

43. Most of those deaths are the result of the war.

Diseases that soldiers would not have caught had they not been in Iraq, yadda yadda yadda. It all comes back to being in a warzone, and what happens there.

[Sloppyfourths]

45. 6 of one...

half dozen of the other.

Take 150,000 military personnel and follow them around for a year and a half. How many will die?

The KIAs are what tell the story.

[Guaranteed]

46. It doesn't matter.

George Bush doesn't have to take responsibility for the deaths of soldiers or anyone else in the United States that his actions did not lead to. His actions lead to these deaths- nearly every one of them- and he has to take responsibility for them. Most of those people would be alive today had he not invaded Iraq, and virtually none of them would have died by the same cause. Their deaths are due to the war, and should be attributed to it.

[Sloppyfourths]

28. Do you know the suicide rate for soldiers in Iraq?

It's less than the suicide rate for civilians.

[Guaranteed]

32. So? They're still killing themselves as a result of war stress.

This tactic is just a way to try to separate hundreds of our soldiers' deaths from the Iraq war. But the truth is that none, or at least very, very few, of those young, healthy men and women would be dead right now had they not been sent to Iraq.

[DrWeird]

37. More lies.

The rate of suicide "per capita" for troops in Iraq is higher than in the general population.

Way to support the troops, boy.

[Guaranteed]

39. I'd actually believe that one.

It sounds like somewhere between 20 and 30 soldiers have killed themselves in Iraq (that's only a guess- it was around 10 sometime last year). Out of 100,000+ troops, I'd guess that that would be lower than the civilian rate here at home.

[DrWeird]

42. Suicide rate of troops in Iraq...

last year was 17/100,000. I believe that's gone up, but haven't got the numbers.

The Army, in peace time, has a suicide rate of about 8/100,000 while the general population is about 10/100,000.

[w13rd0]

36. WoW!

"KIA is only from hostile action or as a result of hostile action such as in the case of Pat Tillman."

You ARE aware that the report concluded Tillman died as the result of "friendly fire", aren't you? Is "friendly fire" now categorized as "hostile action", and if so, are those killed by friendly fire included in the Pentagon's KIA numbers?

Furthermore, we object to themedia's minimization of the very REAL costs of this war, in lives and money. Deaths from wounds, lives ruined by crippling injuries, families torn apart by long seperations (like sending the NATIONAL guard over there for months with no benefits). These are REAL COSTS in very real lives in a real world the BushCo Pentagon number crunchers apparently don't live in...

[Guaranteed]

41. You're right- I forgot about friendly fire, too.

Those deaths are the responsibility of George W. Bush, and would not have occurred had the war not taken place.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. Maybe in your world. In my world every soldier who dies for us counts.

It bothers me that you disrepect the sacrifice of those soldiers.

[Sloppyfourths]

15. That is an erroneous assumption on your part

I honor the military people alive or when they die. They don't have to die before I honor them.

KIA is KIA.

Not KIA is Not KIA.

I didn't invent the terms.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. I'm not assuming, I'm observing. Your disrespect makes me sick.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

47. for some poorly thought out political motives.

It's rather obvious you support the war, and the only reason you support it is because Bush wanted it. If Clinton were president you'd be in some militia group. If you really supported the cause and the troops, you'd be over there in Iraq instead of trolling at a message board for some poorly thought out political motives.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. You are pretending that some deaths aren't worth reporting

and that makes me sick.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

49. You are one of the Iraqi dead?

OK.

[DrWeird]

50. Oh look, he's been banned.

I guess it turned out he was a lying, hypocritical, unamerican Freeper.


Who would have guessed?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. I'm shocked, shocked

[jab105]

11. Don't you see...if less than 700 were "killed in action"...

then its going to be a lot longer until they reach that horrible 100 deaths question...because that may be when the American public really start "questioning W"...

[Swede]

18. It's at 936,getting close to a third of the 9/11 deaths.

Looks like an average of 50 deaths a month since the war started.





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