Indymedia latest reports from NYC: (After the main protest march):

[LittleApple81]

August 29: Breaking News
05:13 PM More mounted police are being called to the scene. Protesters are chanting "shame." people are being beaten with nightsticks. legal is on the scene

05:05 PM Reports of arrests and brutality from cops on horses on 46th and Broadway. There are hundreds of people, it's difficult to tell who are protesters, who are not.

05:02 PM 100-200 people are at 45th and Broadway (post-kiss-in and mouse bloc actions, waiting for intermissions). Riot cops are advancing towards them. Police have said they will be arrested if they don't disperse.


What is going on in here? Anybody knows?

[Earth_First]

1. It appears to be the beginning of a long night/week...

Godspeed!

[eleny]

2. The webcam at that location is off for maintenance

http://nyctmc.org/xmanhattan.asp#

It was up and running just a 1/2 hour ago. Hmmmmm

Edit: The Central Park ones are also off for "service".

[K-W]

3. This is the time when things start getting messy,

The police are very nice for the big protests. But when the moderates and families start to leave, the police get alot less friendly.

[gardenista]

5. And why would that be? Because the protesters are less friendly?

I'm sorry, I have no tolerance for these bloc actions. They will marr what was a beautiful, peaceful day.

Screw the masked anarchists. They work for Rove.

[K-W]

6. Because its mostly students and marginalized people who have no voice.

So they can get way with it.

[gardenista]

18. Because they have no voice they can "get away with it"?

I don't understand.

Get away with what?

And if they're students, they have the luxury of time to make their voices heard, if that's what they choose to do.

[K-W]

22. This is how it always is.

During the day, when the protest is full of proffessionals, families, etc. And the news cameras are running. The police are very very well behaved. Once the march is supposedly over, the cameras leave, the families go home, and what is left is the more hardcore protestors, the police show a great deal less patience with anyone who wants to continue protesting. Thier mission now is dispersal, and they will be much more freely arresting people and much more forceful.

The hardcore protestors dont have much political leverage, they dont need to be respected the same way the main march was.

[gardenista]

24. The so-called "hardcore protesters" are either bored teenagers looking

for a fight, or on the Rove payroll.

They pulled this same bullshit in SF, and they completely eclipsed the powerful, peaceful protest of THOUSANDS of people.

I have nothing but disdane for these people, and I hope that they are rapidly arrested and neutralized by the NYPD.

[K-W]

27. Yah, stupid protestors, its all thier fault.

Did I stumble onto freerepublic?

[gardenista]

29. If you are accusing me of being a freeper, you can kiss my ass.

You know very well that these are not protesters. They're bullshit black bloc anarchists, and they play right into Rove's hands. If you were there, you'd probably see the cash changing hands around the corner.

[K-W]

32. If it posts like a duck...

You are exagerating a moderately decent point into a horrible generalization and a completely baseless accusation.

Are more hardcore protestors often self defeating, yes. Are they more radical than most people on DU, yes. Are they foolish, probably. Are some of them advocates of civil disobedience, yes. Are some of them even advocates of outright disobedience, yes. Are some of them paid operatives for Rove, maybe, but you might want to try proving such an accusation before resting your laurels on it.

But the problem is, many of them are Americans who believe in the same things you do but feel they must protest in a way you dont seem to like. This is fine, and you can say you dont like it, but to smear them and bash them and make baseless accusations about them serves no valid purpose.

Edit: and to suggest that if the police violate thier rights, they brought it on themselves is undemocratic, conservative, and inappropriate.

[gardenista]

35. Interesting. You contradict yourself.

You feel you have sufficient "proof" to accuse me of being a freeper troll, based on a few posts in which we disagree, yet you ask me to prove the existence of Rovian infiltrators among the BREAKAWAY (not United for Peace & Justice coalition) action groups?

You might want to consider one more question. Are the "more hardcore protesters" playing right into Rove's hands? Yes.

I would say that supporting them as you do not only serves no valid purpose, but instead serves the purposes of the GOP beautifully.

I do not support anarchist bloc actions. I do not march beside masked idiots playing dressup just like Bush does. I do not support trustfund "activists" with nothing better to do that screw up the work being done by people dedicated to positive change in this country.

Furthermore, I demand that you retract your accusation against me. You are wrong, and you know it.

[K-W]

40. No, I actually didnt, but im sorry you misread.

I didnt accuse you of being a troll. I was simply pointing out that what you were saying was exactly what a freeper would say and reeks of freeper talking points and logic. I assume you arent a freeper or I wouldnt be discussing with you, I just think you need to realize that what you are saying is very very wrong and feeds into conservative propaganda.

"Are the more hardcore protestors playing right into roves hands?"
Maybe. You are lumping a bunch of different people in together. Are the anarchists who are looking to break the law playing into roves hands, certainly. Are the peaceful protestors who just dont feel like they want to stop protesting yet... maybe, but honestly, it is there right. So while you may disagree with thier strategy, they are exercising thier rights, and you shouldnt really ever look down on someone because they refuse to give up thier rights.

Are you honestly arguing that there is no valid purpose to defend people from slander and to defend peoples rights to assembly and speech?

The only accusation I made is that you are wrong and you sound like a freeper, I stand by that accusation and will of course not retract it. I dont care if you are ignorant about protestors. Im sorry that you have decided to hate protestors and generalize them as "trustfund activists" and "masked idiots" but if I wanted to hear that kind of hateful garbage, guess what kind of website I might go to.

There are plenty of people on DU and everywhere that think standing up for what they believe in is always right, regardless of whether or not it is pragmatic. I am not one of them, but I dont dismiss them and lump them all into one category the way you have done.

What happens if the system fails oh pragmatic one? Is there ever a time that it is ok to annoy people? Is there ever a time when it is ok to stand up for your rights? Maybe they are right and you are wrong. Maybe you are walking right into an election that you are going to lose for some reason or another, and the only way to fight back is to stand in the streets for what you beleive in. Who knows, you dont, I dont, they dont, so perhaps you shouldnt be so condescending towards them.

Go ahead and disagree and discuss, but if you just want to propagandize and smear, I dont know what you are doing here.

[gardenista]

44. Not a misread and you know it. Read your own posts.

I am actually very proud of the protesters who marched today. I would have been among them if I could have been.

But we both know that the breakaway actions are not simply protesters still energized by the march who don't want to stop. These are organized groups.

These tactics are destructive and detract from all of the good work that was done to organize and pull off a peaceful and truly successful protest.

What is happening now on the streets, as promoted by sites like indymedia, is shameful and not in any way productive. If I allow my disgust for them to show by calling them idiots or trustfund activists, it is because I have seen them in action, have seen them put a bad taste in everyone's mouth after every single peaceful protest we've had in SF. They don't care about the outcome of this election, nor do they care about destroying the hard work of others.

If you want to accuse me of propagandizing and smearing, of not belonging here, aren't you , once again, doing the very thing of which you accuse me?

Have you taken the time to follow bloc tactics and actions? Do you know what you are defending here?

And if you want to ask me what happens if the system fails, I'll be happy to tell you. Yes, we take to the streets again, and perhaps we up the ante, if that seems like the right thing to do. But we are not there yet. However, I can think of no faster way to get us there than by continuing this sort of action on the streets of NYC.

[K-W]

52. Yes a misread. I never called you a troll at any point.

So please dont claim I did.

First off, yes, many of the breakaway actions are organized groups. Some arent. Some of those groups have malicious intent SOME DONT. Some of them want to protest in areas not designated for protest at times not designated for protest. This is thier constitutional right. And some dont have any plans other than that.

You are being horribly unfair and you are propagandizing. You are acting like everyone being caught up in the police action was intending to do something wrong. Which is just a lie. These arent all breakway groups taking extreme actions. Many of them are just protestors who are lingering.

Please provide a link to a place where indymedia is promoting something improper.

You have decided you hate these people so you feel free to generalize about them unfairly. You cant possibly know who all these people are, what they are thinking, or what they are doing. Yet you seem to be comfortable accusing them all of being stupid and spoiled.

Yes, the groups you speak of do exist. THEY DO NOT ACCCOUNT FOR EVERYONE BEING ARRESTED.

That is your flaw. I am not defending people who do improper things. I am defending the people who dont and get unfairly detained, arrested, intimidated, brutalized ANYWAY. I have seen the NYPD violate the rights of completely nonviolent protestors. So your insistance that these people all deserve it is laughable.

You have let your hate for certain people cloud your judgement of others.

[gardenista]

64. ya know what? We are never going to agree on this.

My hope is that no one gets hurt, and though I know it's not realistic, that no one who is innocent of violence or property damage gets arrested or harrassed, or even looked at the wrong way by the cops.

I would point you to the very update we're getting right now in order to see several improper actions. They are at the same time promoted and agrandized by the dramatic up-to-the-minute reporting. (Much like the FOX ticker, I might add.)

My only real concern here is that our side win. Chanting "Bush and KERRY(!!!) they all must go" is just deplorable to me. But it's their right to do so. However, encouraging activists to approach anyone carrying a red bag because they might be an RNC delegate is totally irresponsible and improper. It's stalking. And it's exactly what Rove wants.

So I will say right now, that the protesters of which I speak are not at all involved with the march today. They are the groups promoted and organized via indymedia. And that is NOT a broad brush. That is a very small, very destructive segment of the activist population.

[gardenista]

46. Here ya go. Think this doesn't play into Rove's hands?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2281787

[K-W]

55. What on earth does that have to do with this discussion.

We are talking about the people who are being rounded up, arrested, detained etc as the protest winds down. Yes some of those people are out of line. But some of them arent, and you dont seem to want to aknowledge that.

I do not support or defend actions like that, nor have I in this thread. YOu are just painting with too large a brush and associating actions like that with protestors that have nothing to do with actions like that.

[gardenista]

60. You obviously DO defend actions like that, if you are supporting bloc

actions. Maybe you are talking about protesters who are milling around and being caught up in something that they don't intend to participate in, but that would be a naive characterization of what is happening.

I agree with you that it is likely that some innocents are being arrested along with the actively participating anarchists doing bloc actions. If that is the case, I am sure they'll be released soon.

But if you are defending and supporting the actions listed in the indymedia update, then you *are* supporting actions exactly like that. And furthermore, you are supporting groups who don't even support Kerry's re-election.

[gardenista]

53. No. I suggested the police arrest them if they're breaking the law.

I do not suggest that their rights should be violated. Even if they're chanting, as they are in the latest update, "Bush and Kerry, they all must go".

[K-W]

56. That isnt what you suggested at all, but if thats what you think now, fine

Many people who have broken no law are arrested.

[gardenista]

54. You are in Democratic Underground, not Anarchist Central. nt

[JCRobinhood]

58. Glad to see Booker T. & DuBois are alive & well.

Keep swinging, we need you both!

[gardenista]

61. Now *that* I'm sure we can all agree on!

:toast:

[LittleApple81]

4. New update: (5:31 p.m.)

05:31 PM Meanwhile, south of this location at 41st and Broadway, Billionaires For Bush are successfully performing a street theater protest.

05:30 PM Cops are calling for more reinforcements to the area.

05:27 PM There are still appx. 200 people in the area around 46th, they are regrouping. Orange plastic netting is being used to entrap and arrest people in groups. The entire block from 25th to 26th has been penned in. More arrests appear imminent.

[LiberalEsto]

7. If the media is no longer watching

the police turn into animals.
The best way to stop this is to get the media on it ASAP.

[gardenista]

13. Please. I'm sorry, but if you aren't there, you have no idea what the

police are doing. Nor do you know what the BREAKAWAY "protesters" are doing.

And indymedia is NOT going to tell you the whole story.

[Pallas180]

36. Orange Netting? how are they applying that?

shooting it out of something:

wrapping people in it one by one?

or is it thrown over a bunch of people ? then how ?

this is something new?

[LittleApple81]

8. 5:32 p.m. update:

05:32 PM Between 100-150 people have been arrested in Times Square. There are about 15 legal observers within the pen

[eleny]

9. Would you please post that link of the updates

I got it yesterday but can't find it. Thanks!

Edit - I found it. http://nyc.indymedia.org/

[LittleApple81]

10. here:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/

[eleny]

11. Thanks!

I should have renamed it when I saved it.

[TeeYiYi]

15. A girl called in and said . . .

. . . that they are arresting people in groups of 25 and 30 by surrounding and trapping them with some kind of orange webbing and then arresting them all. They're arresting everyone, not just protesters.

TYY

[eleny]

12. Are you listening to the audio feeds of folks calling in?

Sounds right on the moment.

[LittleApple81]

14. Yes but from another radio source. I think I will switch to IndyMedia.n/t

[eleny]

16. It's music right now

But they pop in with callers.

[WillyT]

19. Yes, And You Can Listen To It Here:

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2281393

They play music between the phone reports from around the city. But some of the reports have been amazing.

:kick:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. Clashes between RNC Delegates and Protesters

From Indymedia:

Direct confrontations between protesters and RNC delegates. People are chanting "Go Home." At least 1/3 of the people on the streets in Times Square are protesters.

[eleny]

20. Times Square webcam

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/timessquare/livestream.html

It's active.Just wait till iot loads.

[TeeYiYi]

25. Great link. Thanks eleny. nt

TYY

[LittleApple81]

21. Update 5:42 pm.

05:42 PM Direct confrontations between protesters and RNC delegates. People are chanting "Go Home." At least 1/3 of the people on the streets in Times Square are protesters.

[TeeYiYi]

23. Excellent link --->>

http://portland.indymedia.org/ with good radio streams.

breaking news
29-Aug-2004 14:51: Times Square: Picture: swatch, footlocker, mtv. Protestors chanting "Shame on You" to 4 delegates who "just want to have a good time" and were seen slipping flag lapel pins and wedding rings into breast pockets.
29-Aug-2004 14:50: Times Square: it's crowded and hard to tell protester from tourist, so it's easy to get involved and not be profiled. "C'mon down!"
29-Aug-2004 14:49: Four delegates standing on corner. Looking for good time.
29-Aug-2004 14:47: Times Square, outside Marriott Hotel: Confrontation -- Protesters have surrounded Rethuglican delegates and are chanting "RNC Go Home!" Delegates are running away or being pulled/pushed away by police. Hee hee.
29-Aug-2004 14:46: marriott - times square; direct confrontation between rnc delegates and protestors. all wearing out-dated boots, blue suits and american flag lapel pins. Don't they know that's so 4 years ago?
29-Aug-2004 14:45: 46th & Broadway: about 40 people rounded up by police in a large orange net. legal observers also being arrested.
29-Aug-2004 14:42: Republican delegates/donors will be at Howard's Chili Hall on 65th Street tonight, 9:30ish, for a concert. Will they be greeted by direct action?
29-Aug-2004 14:42: Phone report from great lawn at central park; helicopters; police laying back; large media presence; # of people astill growing; people sitting down, hanging out, large # of people congregating in center part of central park; mouse block singing.
29-Aug-2004 14:42: "Mouse Bloc" protesters "harrassing" Republican delegates leaving Broadway shows by singing. < More about Mouse Bloc >
29-Aug-2004 14:40: 46th & Broadway: Entire block of protesters (100-150) getting arrested one-by-one. They are completely surrounded by police. 15 legal observers are witnessing.

TYY

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. the mouse bloc? What is the mouse bloc?

huh?

[LittleApple81]

43. Here:

Mouse Bloc Takes Broadway on August 29!!
"If one mouse can scare an elephant, what can thousands do?"
As the Republican elephant tramples into our city, thousands of mischievous mice will confront them in the streets! On August 29 at 5PM, over 13,000 Republican fatcat delegates will be attending eight Disneyfied Broadway shows in Midtown Manhattan.
Every good little mouse in NYC knows the Republicans are only here to steal our cheese. This is our city! These are our theaters! Thousands of mice will swarm the streets to remind the forgetful old elephants that they are not welcome in this town. They will not be able to have fun at our expense without facing thousands of pissed off mice in the streets.

The idea is simple: show up at 4:00 at one of eight theater locations and be ready to topple the elephant to the ground. Mice love nothing more than theater in the street, loud drums, music of all kinds, radical cheerleaders, marching bands, anti-capitalist preachers, dumpster divers, bike blockers, pissed off workers, disrupters, rowdies, "out of town" troublemakers", roving affinity groups, pink bloques, kissing queers, clowns, pirates, khaki-clad yuppies, radical gardeners, puppetistas, pagans, samba bands, chicks with dicks, revel-utionaries, fire-eaters, throwers & spitters, drag kings and queens, billionaires, punks-be they crusty or clean!, zapatistas, autonomistas and of course, your friendly local ANARCHISTS! They claim the people of NYC are a 'threat to the city'-we say the Republicans and their agenda are the real threat.

Do bring — friends, family, affinity groups, bikes, costumes, mouse ears, tails and whiskers. cheese (soy or otherwise), anything you need for a good action.

Don't bring — Padded blocs-cuz its the NYPD and this ain't Italy! Black Blocs-- — cuz this ain't Seattle and its 2004! This is a tactical opinion only.

Come join us on the 29th for some action outside of the NYPD-approved 'frozen zone'. Solidarity to the August 31 actions!

August 29th Broadway Shows Attended by RNC Delegates


http://info.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=04/07/26/2246252

[eleny]

28. A Central Park webcam

But this one is from way high up. Seems to be changed from earlier this afternoon.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_livecameras.html

[rocktivity]

30. If they'd said it was OK to go to Central Park when the march was finished

instead of backing down and say it was OK at the last minute, most of these people would have been MILES away!

:headbang:
rocknation

[TeeYiYi]

31. Indymedia requesting media at 47th and 8th . . .

. . . to help document arrests.

TYY

[LittleApple81]

33. Update 6:12 p.m.

06:12 PM
Injuries reported amongst people arrested in Times Square. Legal is calling for media to come down and document arrests (47th and 8th).

05:48 PM
The mouse bloc will RECONVERGE at 6:15 at 53rd and Broadway.

[LittleApple81]

34. Update 6:16 p.m.

06:16 PM
Free 103 is reporting that 9 anarchists have been charged with felony counts.

[WillyT]

37. Protesters, Legal Advisors, And Media, Are Caught In The Netting...

near Times Square. Apparently they are using these nets to pen people in, or direct them away from where the delegates are.

Getting reports that National Guard troops are being moved around by helicopter.

Listening here now (Requires WinAmp): http://portland.indymedia.org/en/static/pdxradio.shtml

[TeeYiYi]

38. Breaking update . . .

breaking news
29-Aug-2004 15:31: 45th & 7th: Cops yelling "Let's go! Let's go!" All protestors are on sidewalks. Only place protestors can go is to leave. Whole area has been closed off to protestors.
29-Aug-2004 15:30: dispersal warning in front of marriot -- 46th & bdway
29-Aug-2004 15:29: Cops blocking off street; telling people that protestors have blocked off streets. Using Swatch shop on corner of 46th, dragged protestors into the store and put orange netting around it.
29-Aug-2004 15:29: Caller in middle of pen in Times Square. No way for media, protestors and legal observers to get out. Officer Alles reading out orders to disperse. Also present: Officers Caneco, Esiky, Powers. Caller being pushed off sidewalk by cops.
29-Aug-2004 15:26: police closing the streets and relating that the protesters are closing the streets, 45th & 7th
29-Aug-2004 15:26: Police are beating and arresting at 45 & 6
29-Aug-2004 15:26: 45th & 7th st. near broadway. several protests when delegates coming out of shows. Police making many more arrests, creating volatile situation. Arrests were unprovoked. About 200 officers there, triple the # of protestors.
29-Aug-2004 15:25: Mouse Bloc at Aida 42nd and 7th
29-Aug-2004 15:25: Mad Sq Garden: heavier police presence. more and more press and police. huge crowd. 10 more people arrested at 36th and broadway. Around 40 riots cops and barricades @ 35th St.
29-Aug-2004 15:24: 45TH AND broadway cops are starting to make arrrests again with the orange netting

TYY

[KelleyKramer]

39. They are chanting at the RNC delegates!!

Ha ha!!

Chanting 'Go home, go home, Republicans go home'

And also 'One million marched against you today'

Said the Repubs are all dressed up for some kind of event and they look like they are in shock.

Ha ha, this is hilarious

[LittleApple81]

41. Update 6:20 p.m.

06:20 PM
Police have chased protesters into a Swatch store on the corner of 45th and 7th. They have been penned in with nets. People are being allowed to leave, some arrests are being made. Mouse bloc is regrouping in front of Aida - 42nd and 7th at 6:30.

06:17 PM
Delegates are standing in front of Bombay Dreams. People are chanting "right wing scum your time has come!"

[LittleApple81]

42. Update 6:39 p.m.: Facing off with delegates (verbally).

06:39 PM
About 80 people are in the mouse bloc in front of Aida, facing off with delegates (verbally). Police are advancing, pushing protesters up 7th ave. It is unclear whether there will be arrests at this time.

[Snazzy]

45. Newsday Photographer arrested

Sun Aug 29, 6:40 PM ET

New York City Police arrest Newsday photographer Moises Saman (R) during a protest in New York's Times Square after a large demonstration against President George W. Bush's policies, August 29, 2004. The United Peace and Justice coalition estimated more than 400,000 people attended the demonstration, the day before the Republican National Convention. REUTERS/Jeff Christensen

[Pallas180]

48. Newsday will do a number on them for this - report what wasn't

seen on C Span. That;s good.

[LittleApple81]

47. Update 6:45 p.m. "Bush AND KERRY they ALL must go."

06:45 PM
Mouse blockers have been scurrying around 48th and Broadway chanting "Bush and Kerry, they all must go." Police, in full riot gear have been chasing them up 7th ave.

[Pallas180]

49. cops in full riot gear is not good news.

[gardenista]

51. Now that's helpful! nt

[LittleApple81]

50. Update 7:05 p.m. - Gay right activists arrested.

07:05 PM
25 gay rights activists were arrested at 45th and 8th, Milford Square. Check out pictures from the kiss-in arrests at portland.indymedia.org


CORRECTION: 25 gay rights activists were arrested at 45th and 8th, Milford PLAZA HOTEL. Check out pictures from the kiss-in arrests at portland.indymedia.org

[LittleApple81]

57. Update 7:14 p.m. 'chaos on broadway' has been chaotic and fun

07:14 PM
Big picture: 'chaos on broadway' has been chaotic and fun and is still unfolding... the mouse bloc is gaining strength as it moves north. Things in Central Park are stable - peaceful, party atmosphere.

[LittleApple81]

59. Update 7:19 pm Police have entrapped the mouse bloc divided them into two

groups

07:19 PM
Police have entrapped the mouse bloc divided them into two groups: those who wanted to be arrested and those who did not. Arrests are most likely underway. Exact number is unknown. During this confrontation, police and secret servicemen started harassing street vendors and other non-white pedestrians who were minding their own business on Broadway.

[LittleApple81]

62. Update 7:38 pm Plainclothes cops on Vespa scooters.

07:38 PM
Advisory: Watch out for plainclothes cops on Vesper scooters. The have been doing most of the arrests around Times Square.

07:34 PM
For everybody's information: All delegates are identifiable by the bright red bags, (gifts from the NYTimes) they are carrying.

[gardenista]

63. wait! I thought all the cops were wearing body armor?!

[LittleApple81]

65. Update 7:56 Current total arrest number (for today) from Legal: 200

07:56 PM
Current total arrest number (for today) from Legal: 200, 45 of which were in Times Square - including 3 legal observers. And arrests may still be underway in that area.

07:52 PM
Last we heard, the mouse bloc was still roving near Bombay Dreams, while the police are waiting to escort the darling delegates to their buses.