Is there anyone here actually AGAINST the Iraq War?

[GreatScott]

Because while Senator Kerry clearly showed how stupid it was for Bush to go to war, he didn't back off from finishing it.

Yes, Kerry won this round handily, but it sounds as though he wants to keep fighting Bush's War.

[mike6640]

1. I won't speak for anyone else here

But I was dead against this Iraq war from the beginning.

We have made a collossal mistake invading (virtually alone) in the first place, but we cannot just pull out and leave the place to collapse in a certainly inevitable civil war and chaos.

The world is not a safer place.

[arcos]

7. you forgot Poland! n/t

[TahitiNut]

53. Agreed. I have always been adamantly opposed to these "wars".

That doesn't change the FACT that we have an atrocious mess on our hands.

I can be 100% opposed to a family member breaking another's jaw. Does that mean I don't act to help heal the damage? Do I just sit back and say "Hey, it's not my problem"?

Of course not.

Kerry is asking to be handed the very problems he was opposed to creating. That means dealing with it instead of effetely and self-righteously hiding behind opposition - an opposition that foresaw the very conditions now created.

No, Iraq wasn't spawning and loosing terrorists upon the world. That doesn't mean that's not what's now happening. The Busholini Regime has created the very thing which didn't exist: the very thing they said they opposed.

They've created a condition in the world that's an order of magnitude worse than what they claimed they were opposing.

[Sugarbleus]

95. I was AGAINST invading Iraq on the premise that is was

part of the war on terror. An average clam with average knowledge knew that Iraq was better left alone, and Saddam in place until terrorism and it's adherents were knocked out of the box.

Saddam was a secularist..the radical islamists HATED him and he didn't much care for them either. He was a greedy pig dictator who cared more about money than religion. Saddam was the one who kept the radicals from running amok in that area.

Besides, we had Iraq surrounded and overflown...he could have sat on the back burner while we watched him like a hawk for a good long while.

I remember remarking to my family when I heard that dimson was going to invade Iraq: WTF?!! that is totally crazy!! They didn't attack us, why are we going there????

However, since we've RUINED that country for those people; we've left them hating us more than ever AND we've caused a power vacuum with Saddam gone, so that radicals are flourishing like wild fire....I believe Kerry feels that we have a certain obligation to "fix" it to whatever degree possible. Additionally, since there ARE radicals and violently unhappy Iraqis there NOW, we can't leave them to their unbridled machinations. A resolution has to be found or we and the rest of the world won't see the end of it any time soon.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH BUSHCO, you #$@%$#@ing neo con, fascist, globalist, PNACing, fundamentalist, pigs! :grr:

[liberalmuse]

2. I wasn't too keen on that part.

The stuff about hunting down the terrorists and killing them didn't sit too well, either. And no, I'm not for 'winning' a war that can't be won IMO, but I'll cut Kerry some slack on that if we can just get Bush the hell out of office. Kerry is so much more intelligent and open than Bush that I just don't see him fucking things up more in Iraq or starting more senseless PNAC-driven wars.

[GreatScott]

6. Of course, any plan is better than NO PLAN

I just wish we could get out of there.

Who cares if it goes to a Civil War?

Keep our country safe and that's all that matters.

[bowens43]

9. You don't care if tens of thousands more die

because of what we have done? I sure as hell do. Keep our country safe and that's all that matters? That's bushes position.

[MostlyLurks]

42. "Moral Leaders" Have Moral Obligations

I hate this fucking trumped up war, but if we pull out and leave the country to defend itself, its people to be taken over by God/Allah/Buddha/Your-Mileage-May-Vary only knows who, then we deserve whatever we got on 9/11 and whatever we get after.

If we want to retain or rebuild ANY authority in this world as a :leader", we have to stay to the end.

Kerry couldn't have summed it up any better: you break it, you buy it. Although he said "You break it, you fix it". DAMN!

[donheld]

84. you don't care if more of the world hates us

aren't we hated enough? if we tear up a country and leave it in shambles we deserve any terror we get

[dmkinsey]

58. When Kerry says "win" he refers to

Establishing enough stability in Iraq for the people there to select their own government. One that will have legitimacy and popular support. THEN, we can leave without being seen to create a huge problem and walk away unconcerned.

[LSK]

3. at the end Kerry clearly said it was how we went about it

He did not deny Saddam was dangerous, he said the difference was HOW to go about the Saddam problem.


HOW to deal with Saddam was the difference between them.

[catchthefever]

4. Against

I was against it from the get-go.

It is not the US's responsibility to police the world. Hell, the police can't get a search warrant without sufficient evidence. Was there any iota of sufficient evidence to invade Iraq? NO. End of story.

The way I explain it to, uh, idiots, is like this:

I decide I don't like you. I come up to your house and ring the bell. You answer the door and I kick the crap out of you. Is that right?

[bryant69]

40. Yeah but we've already done that

You've beat up the guy, wrecked his living room and kitchen, scared his kids, trashed his bedroom, shot his dog. So, realizing what you have done, do you leave or do you stay and clean up?

Actually the best thing to do there wuold be to leave physically but help pay for the clean up.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[SeveneightyWhoa]

5. I was for the war..

..before I was against it!

Is that what you want to hear?

[GreatScott]

11. No-Why can't he just say Wrong War-Wrong Time-Wrong Place

so it's time to Move On!

Let's get in there to Afghanistan and find bin Laden.

Let's take those troop out of Iraq and put them where they're REALLY needed!

[donheld]

88. ok it's like this

an auto mechanic takes your car in for repairs. He tears the car all apart, ruins a few of the parts he removed, then decides it doesn't really need the repairs, but anyway he doesn't know how to fix it. so hes just going to Move On! Does this make you happy? It's exaclty the same as what we did to Iraq.

[bowens43]

8. We can't just leave. It's not possible.

We did this to Iraq and we have to fix it. Kerry will work to bring Arab/Muslim nations into Iraq. This will help to ease the tension. It's the only thing that can be done.

[deadmessengers]

13. Kerry will fix it.

Bush broke Iraq. We own it now, and we now have a responsibility to the Iraqi people. The difference between Kerry and Bush is that Kerry will get the world back on our side, and we'll get help from the rest of the world in cleaning up Bush's mess.

[Minstrel Boy]

22. "Bush broke Iraq. We own it now"

No. You just act like you do.

[GreatScott]

15. We can be PART of fixing it- but not with our troops.

[auburngrad82]

36. We have to finish what Shrub started.

You can't leave the middle east in a complete state of disarray and full of hatred for America. Kerry will work with foreign governments and rebuild all those bridges Shrub broke.

By the way, does anyone have any ideas how many trips Shrub made out of the United States during his first term? Seems like an awful small number for the so-called Leader of the Free World.

[NickB79]

65. How do you "fix" 25,000 civilians dead?

And many times this number wounded, or who have had their homes, businesses, everything they own either destroyed or looted? YOU CAN'T!!! No matter what we do from now on out, we will never be able to live down the damage Bush has done to the US in Iraq. It goes far beyond just rebuilding the infrastructure of the country. We have to get other countries to help rebuild the country, and get most of our troops out of there, because our troops are now forever linked with the damage we've done so far. It doesn't matter if Bush or Kerry are president; in their minds the damage is done.

The sad thing is that, if we get Arab/Muslim nations to help rebuild Iraq, Iraq will likely slip into an Islamic theocracy (ala Saudi Arabia or Iran). When this happens, the common Iraqi, and especially Iraqi women, will be FAR worse off than they were under Saddam as fundamentalists seize power. How majorly f-ed up is that?

[greenohio]

78. Yes it is possible.

We pulled out of Vietnam... and this is another quaqmire. We need to pull out now.

[Minstrel Boy]

10. I found it very disheartening hearing those words.

It was expected, but still.

The war is a criminal enterprise. It can't be redeemed by fighting it "better."

sigh

[KoKo]

61. Until the Bush Administration is behind bars for Invading Iraq I think

we have to keep protesting and keep the media's feet to the fire on this.

I don't go along with "it doesn't matter how we got there" we have to fix it no matter how long it takes..." It does matter how we got there and we owe an apology to the Iraqi people and the world for what these maniacs did. So does Tony Blair...

I hope Kerry sticks to what he says he will do and convenes a UN Conference to get participation in Iraq, holds elections immediately and
put's a vice on Allawi to keep him from working with the Neocons, whom I also hope to see behind bars for treason. I hope he empowers the Iraqi's to work to fix their own infrastructure even if it isn't rebuilt the way "we" want. It will be theirs. They need to know we will get the hell out. But, I wonder if we can ever do that now that they have destabilized the whole area.

I'm still uneasy about why Kerry voted for the power for Bush to invade Iraq....I want to take him at his word that he will do everything differently. It depends though on the folks he brings into his adminisration. I hope there's not a hint of an NeoCon/PNAC/Council on Foreign Relations/AIPAC folks anywhere near the WH/Pentagon or State Department and that he removes Porter Goss.

[stopbush]

12. Yep. I'm against it. I was against it then, I'm against it now.

And, BTW, Kerry isn't talking about continuing "fighting" *'s war, he's talking about ENDING *'s war and cleaning up *'s mess.

That's what Dem presidents do - they clean up Republican messes..like the Reagan deficit, etc.

[deadmessengers]

16. Cleaning up Repugnican messes

I don't know what to say to that but...

'Amen'.

[gospelized]

14. being against it

does not have to mean you want to wash your hands of it and pull out troops without finishing what we started.

we are in this mess. pulling out is not an option. if we do that, iraq will become a third world country.

if you are for pulling out troops right now, you are for iraq descending into civil war, being a perminant hot bed of terrorism, and continueing their downward spiral.

you can't go and knock down someone's house, and then say "sorry!" and leave.

if you knock down their house, you have to say "sorry!" and help them rebuild it.

[GreatScott]

19. We can't rebuild their house with people shooting at us all the time!

We should tell them once they clear out all the bad apples, we'll send supplies and huminitarian workers.

The terrorists are their problem , not ours.

[gospelized]

23. they ARE our problem!

they weren't there before! we brought them there with our stupid war.

[GreatScott]

31. HUH???

Where did they come from?

[DrWeird]

45. Those "terrorists"

are former Iraqi civilians who are fighting against the US because we blew up their family.

Is this too complicated for you to wrap your head around?

[donheld]

89. these "terrorists" are only terrorists in Bushies mind

it's not terrorism to fight for your own people. Reagan called those people "freedom fighters"

[NickB79]

69. They've lived there for generations

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20040928/ts_latimes/insurgentsaremostlyiraqisusmilitarysays&cid=2026&ncid=1480

"Insurgents Are Mostly Iraqis, U.S. Military Says

WASHINGTON — The insistence by interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi and many U.S. officials that foreign fighters are streaming into Iraq (news - web sites) to battle American troops runs counter to the U.S. military's own assessment that the Iraqi insurgency remains primarily a home-grown problem."

What do you expect? We've killed 25,000 civilians, wounded many times more, put the country to 70% unemployment and forced the Iraqi people to beg for handouts from US forces, and allowed their businesses to be looted and burned. I'm guessing there are quite a few Iraqis pissed off enough to pick up a gun and go kill a US soldier with no prompting from any outside influences.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. "help them rebuild it"

That can never be done by an army of occupation, I don't care who's in the White House.

[eridani]

26. You can, however, get the hell out of their faces and let THEM--

--rebuild it, while you pick up the tab. They'll be 1/20 as expensive as Halliburton anyway.

[mmonk]

17. Against the war

AND against leaving a vacuum in Iraq unless we just can't get international help. Only with Kerry would that be possible.

[Melinda]

18. I've always been against it. But WE need a peacemaker...

and Senator Kerry is as close as we will come.

Bush must go, and the peace must be won. It has to be won.

[BeFree]

20. Kerry said Sec. Powell even said

"If you break it, it's yours"

The invasion and ensuing occupation of the war was the wrong war in the wrong place. Personally I can't imagine any war at this time to be worthy of my support.

But, what Kerry is doing is playing to the majority of the mob by saying that we will win this war. If he said that we are gonna lose, he wouldn't stand a chance, so he's got to say we will win.

What I foresee Kerry doing once he is president will be to ramp down the military side reducing the heat, thereby lowering the level of resistance from the people in Iraq.

Bush, as we have all seen, has gone about the occupation in the wrong way and Kerry, as he has said, has a plan to end the war with a winning record.

That works for me.

Kerry on!

[Hutzpa]

24. I am!! n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. I'm against the war.

Always have been. We NEVER should have invaded Iraq!

Kerry is going to get the UN involved and get us the hell out of that place....the chimp CAN'T do that because he thumbed his nose at the UN and our allies.

[Zorbet55]

27. yeah, what you said....same here.

[RebelOne]

28. I was firmly against the war.

And I still am. It made no sense to me.

[Lexingtonian]

29. it was a war of vanity

After all, American vanity being violated is the only politically meaningful connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. And Washington's vanity is the central quality that has dictated the course of warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I took Kerry's words to say that in some respects, wounded American vanity is a serious domestic aspect of Iraq/war politics. I also took what he said to mean that he will take American vanity out of the conduct of affairs in that country- and do what is in the best interest of both Americans and Iraqis. What better responsible (the adults are back in charge) solution could there be?

[ComerPerro]

30. Against the War

But I won't blame or fault Kerry if he dedcides not to pull troops out right away.

Honestly, its not his fault. This is Bush's mess, and you ought to know by now that Republicans never clean up after themselves.

Kerry is going to have to make right what Bush has done wrong.

And, he is going to need support.

God knows that the reich wing will be all over him as soon as he is sworn in. Watch them turn anti-war, and they will blame him for even being there in the first place.

Can you say "Blackhawk Down"?

[mopaul]

32. me

[sybylla]

41. me, too!

Still a mistake. Always will be a mistake.

[jumpstart33]

33. Yes, I am. I think we would better off if Saddam had remained a cripled

leader of 1/3 of a sanctioned nation!

If only one Dem would say this because it's the truth!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Wrong war. Lost war. Time to get out. Now.

Kerry is still playing politics with the bloodbath. His "plan" won't work. But, at least, he is finally saying that it was a mistake.

[LWolf]

35. Yes.

I am "against" the Iraq war. Now, and from the moment that GWB was selected, when some of us easily predicted a return to Iraq. Before 9/11.

And I'm clearly aware that Senator Kerry and I have differing viewpoints on this, and a few other issues.

Since I don't have a peace candidate this year, I think I'll go with the non-psychotic, more level-headed of the two choices. I think we'll lose fewer lives world wide, create fewer messes, and be less of a world-wide laughing stock under Senator Kerry's leadership. Speaking of leadership, in addition to the constant 9/11 mantra to excuse every atrocity, and the heavy accusation of flip-flopping, did you notice how * kept trying to portray himself as a leader? I thought this administration's "war = peace" "intolerance = compassion" "debt = conservative" speak was Orwellian, but this moved us beyond the twilight zone. In what fantastical dimension could * possibly be defined as a leader?

[yardwork]

37. Hell yes I was against it!

But we're stuck with a responsibility now. As a combat veteran, Kerry knows that you can't go around running for president and saying that more than a thousand people died completely in vain.

I trust Kerry. I have no doubt that when he is elected he will do everything possible to get us out of Iraq as soon as possible. That's all he can do.

Kerry would never have gotten us into this war. shrub did.

[IrateCitizen]

38. Look, I can understand Kerry's public position on it...

While it doesn't make me feel good at all, I can understand his statements from purely a pragmatic/electoral standpoint.

There's just too much nationalism/triumphalism that is prevalent among the American public. For Kerry to say that he's going to instantly pull out all troops would be an electoral gaffe. For him to publicly state right now that it's a defeat for the US (despite the facts that all point in that direction) would be disastrous.

Furthermore, he doesn't have any power right now to do anything about it, so it's a moot issue.

Personally, I know in my gut that Iraq is a debacle that won't be solved in any way until US troops are OUT. And I hold out hope against the evidence that Kerry will, when elected, begin to withdraw US troops. I also know that if he doesn't, I'll continue to agitate against his administration for the withdrawl of troops.

Politics is often a choice between the disastrous and the unpalatable. Given how disastrous Bush is, I'll readily admit that Kerry will be a vast improvement, irregardless of his shortcomings.

[prayin4rain]

39. The war is absurd... Really almost unbelievable.

I walked around the first few months of the war in disbelief. Then when the media started calling anyone against the war a traitor, couldn't believe it. I had just graduated college, and this was the history of OTHER countries I had just finished studying. Fear and fascism. I am just beginning to fully accept this is going on right now in America, I feel almost hopeless. Very against the war and fascism in general.

[Gothic Sponge]

43. I've always been against the war from day 1.

I wish Kerry's stance was different.

[info being]

44. Yes, I only hope he doesn't mean what he's saying

Because, after all, "How can you ask a man to be that last man to die for an unjust war."

[Qanisqineq]

46. 100% against it

[ibegurpard]

47. Yes. Now please explain how we pull out of it without letting

the country sink into complete chaos. And while you're at it, please tell me who to vote for who actually has a shot at taking out Bush who also has a better position on it and plan than Kerry.

[TahitiNut]

56. Wrong standard.

The only question can be: "Is there any assurance whatsoever that any continuation of our military occupation can possibly create a condition that's any better than immediate withdrawal?"

Does it make any sense whatsoever to throw more lives away? What possible positive effect can it have?

The moral calculus must always be: Of all our possible options from this point on, which has the greatest moral return on the investment of lives and fortune?

Rolling back the calendar isn't one of those options! That's just a delusional cop-out.

[greatauntoftriplets]

48. I am totally against the Iraq war....

...always said it was opening Pandora's Box. Sadly, I was correct.

[TahitiNut]

57. Just as sadly, being "correct" doesn't undo the damage.

I've been adamantly against reactively waging "war" in either Afghanistan or Iraq from the very first instant. If I were to take on the job of President, that wouldn't buy me shit. It's now about what to do next.

[greatauntoftriplets]

71. All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together

...again.

Unfortunately, what is being done next just now seems to be this new offensive in Samarra. That will win us a lot of friends.

We have FUBARed that part of the world.

[Zero Gravitas]

49. Mr. Bush's War

Being AGAINST Mr. Bush's War is like being against the sunset. Like it or not Bush invaded Iraq (which was a bad idea in the first place) and he managed to screw it up big time. President Kerry will have to deal with the reality left in the wake of the Bush Administration. Iraq is a mess and we are in the middle of it and President Kerry will have to deal with it the best he can.

[Braunschweiger Bone]

50. Even if Kerry wins, progessives lose

We'll basically be trading one warhawk for another warhawk. At one point Kerry was even talking about increasing and expanding the bloodthirsty, imperialistic US military even MORE.

I really wish he would have just demanded that we get out NOW. If it's the wrong war, it's the wrong war. And since all wars are wrong, it's a pretty easy call.

[ParanoidPat]

51. It was an I N V A S I O N ! What fuckin' war are you droning on about?

There is no WAR in Iraq! Get your FACTS straight! :evilgrin:

We I N V A D E D the country of Iraq, no declaration of war was ever made by either side. :spank:

In answer to your stupid question, Yes I always have been against breaking International law and preemptively invading sovereign nations to overthrow their leaders in an attempt to force a completely different form of government on them. :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

100. Sure looks like war to me...

but I could be wrong...

Hi pat.

[Mandate My Ass]

52. Totally against the invasion, then and now

However, Kerry at least has a plan to get us out and would have a much better chance at convincing allies to help the situation. Bush and his cronies want our troops there forever and have alienated anyone who may have helped but who expressed doubt in rushing into something as drastic as a pre-emptive invasion.

For obvious reasons, American troops are going to continue to be targets of retaliation in Iraq. I'd feel better having a president who realizes and admits the serious hole we've dug for ourselves and is willing to mend fences than one who stubbornly insists against all evidence to the contrary that everything is going swimmingly and we don't need anybody else. Even his father's very questionable foray into Iraq (with similarly trumped up "evidence") was not launched until he had garned a great deal of international support.

[hiphopnation]

54. Has he any choice

In continuing to fight this dumbass war?

From where I'm standing Kerry's (and Bush's, for that matter) choices are

A) Get the hell out of Iraq now and risk a possible civil war in a part of the world already rife with turmoil.

or B) Try to take the reigns from the monkey and do the best he can to make the country peaceful and prosperous.

So I ask you, does he have a choice?

[buddhamama]

55. I am! I have been and will continue to be opposed

We invaded Iraq. Current Administration policies over there a disaster.

If Kerry can bring in the U.N., begin to repair the damage in Iraq and our standing within the International Community and, get our military back home, More Power To Him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. yes ofcourse he does

else the choice would be to have iraq in civil war for perpetuity!!

responsibility is a democratic principle.

[cheezus]

60. Kerry has talked me out of cut n run

we need to get our troops out of the asap, but we can't leave iraq in chaos. We don't need democracy (it would be nice, but I think it's something we can work at through the state dept over a longer period), we need stability. I think that with international support, we can make that happen, even rather quickly.

[JohnKleeb]

66. Kerry also made it clear that Bush wants to have military bases in Iraq

while he himself has no plans to do so.

[bloom]

62. I'm against it...

The one thing I really didn't like last night was Kerry defending pre-emptive war.

[Dangerman]

63. Hell yeah!

I'm absolutely AGAINST this war. Or should I say INVASION.

We invaded a defenseless country and oust a meaningless dictator, both had nothing to do with 9/11, and are no threat.

Ever since that day in March 2003, America's credibility is all but down the toilet, and I felt ashamed to be an American.

God damn George W. Bush to the deepest, darkest pits of hell!

[WLKjr]

64. This is the way I feel about this

A year or so ago I did not support this war.....before you flame me lemme explain why.

I was against this war before it even started, but it did, and there is nothing I can do about that.

But here we are with a mess on our hands, leaving would do no good and staying isn't much better by far. But its like this, we broke it we fix it.....We have to get things fixed there or we will never leave. That's what we have ahead of us. I guess it's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't situations.

[Fear]

67. duh

Quite frankly, * and Kerry have VERY similar directions and viewpoints!!!!! - why would Kerry be better then *? - well, if he doesn't lie like * did and would start to sit around the table with the EU / Nato etc. etc. that would be better then having a rogue country. (EU / NATO would moderate extreme decissions.)

[not systems]

68. Yes. I was and am against it. I am for Kerry.

Out now!

Redirect remaining funds into reparations payments.

Send Bush Co. to the Haige.

Kerry may not agree but he is no half wit crook like Bush.

[dpt223]

70. here's the thing

Iraq would have been fine had it been left alone to begin with, but given the situation since Bush invaded anything we do regarding Iraq from here on out will only make the situation worse.

If we pull out, then it descends into chaos and the Iraqis hate America for fucking up their country.

If we stay, then the Iraqis hate us for occupying their country.

Either way the Iraqis end up hating America.

Either way in the minds of the Iraqis Osama bin Laden message becomes more convincing.

Either way the world is less safe.

[Selwynn]

72. I've always opposed the war and I've never wavered.

However, let me repost something from a related thread:

I *DO* agree in the "you break it, you buy it" principle. If you ravage a sovereign nation in an illegal war, you are responsible and accountable to make it right.

The question is, what does "make it right" mean and how do we "make it right?" Well, I believe that make it right means rebuild what has been destroyed and return stability to what has been ravaged. But on the question of how we do that, I believe that our continuing occupying presence in Iraq is making things *worse* not making things *right* (I've debated this in my mind for a while.)

The United States should still face the financial costs of its actions - otherwise there is no deterrent for its future aggression. It should still face the costs of rebuilding, still face the cost of implementing democracy and recreating security there. But it should cease to be the unilateral occupying force in Iraq, the UN should be empowered to come in, the world should be coaxed into fixing a humanitarian disaster, and US troops numbers on the ground in Iraq should be drastically reduced, though US Representatives and/or troops should STILL be involved in the rebuilding effort - under the UN and the international communities leadership, not the US's off the "line" and outside of Iraq (i.e. working with transporting materials and supplies, working with non-military contractors and engineers, etc.

Would you agree with the general gist, if not the specifics of that spin?

[Mountainman]

73. Kerry said he would not remain in Iraq unlike the repubs that want

permanent bases there.

I was and am completely against this war because I think it is immoral.

But, we have to end it in a way that has a good outcome for the people there. Just leaving now will not have a good outcome.

If I were Kerry I would immediately call for a cease fire. Have a summit with the major nations. Then have negotiations with the main point being that the outcome has to benefit the Iraqis.

[mike_c]

74. I'm voting Green on that very issue....

The illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq is a particularly shameful chapter in American foreign policy, and I feel utterly betrayed by the Democratic Party's refusal to oppose it-- a refusal that borders on enthusiastic endorsement in nearly every statement Kerry has made on the subject.

[greenohio]

76. I'm waiting to decide.

If Kerry is losing in the polls come election day, I'm not throwing my vote away on him.

[West Coast Democrat]

81. Oh, you're so deep

[greenohio]

75. I am TOTALLY against this war

Pulling out will do no worse damage than when we pulled out of Vietnam.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[West Coast Democrat]

80. Believe me, I've been here for quite a long time

I see you've been here for less than a month, and you're not a Kerry supporter.

[greenohio]

83. pulling rank huh?

You're right, I'm not a Kerry supporter. I am ABB like many on the board. Some of us have principles beyond party loyalty.

[West Coast Democrat]

103. I've been here long enough to know when people are posting flame bait

You and the original poster are guilty of it in my eyes.

[greenohio]

85. Uh oh looks like the censor has his eraser out....

Wonder if this message will get deleted too.

[donheld]

82. We broke it now we have to fix it.

with any luck, Kerry can get more of our allies to help us fix it. Yes i was against this war from the start, but we can't just tear up a country and leave it in shambles.

[Andy_Stephenson]

98. Explain how he can get the "allies" to help

when he voted yes for this illegal war?

[goodboy]

86. I am nt

[noiretextatique]

87. always was against it, still against it now

and i don't think "we" can fix it.

[Andy_Stephenson]

91. We can't fix it...

it will continue to spiral out of control.

[Andy_Stephenson]

90. That is what I got from his performance also.

It seems to me that Kerry has a hard on for Iran just like Bush does.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

92. The only good thing that could come out of this

IMO, it's the end of "Iraq" as a country.

Referendum in the south to stay independent or join Iran or Kuwait. British handle this transition.

Independent Kurdistan in the north.

"Sunni Triangle" becomes the new country of Mesopotamia (policed by Arab armies, Egyptians etc., until they can run themselves).

It'll be a bloody mess but less of a bloody mess with some hope for non-tyrannical stability in the future.

BTW, I was against this war before it started--actually, I knew I was voting against it when I voted for Gore in 2000!

[laylah]

93. I, for one, AM

actually against the Iraq slaughter...and you? As for our future President, he did not say he wants to continue to fight this illegal and unethical war, he said he wanted to finish what has been started, win, and get our soldiers outta there! (paraphrasing, of course)

Jenn

[Andy_Stephenson]

94. You can't win an illegal war...

which BTW Kerry endorsed with his yes vote on the resolution.

[laylah]

96. IMVHO...

Kerry endorsed with his "yes" vote to give dumbass the power to wage war, believing, as MANY did, in the erroneous information they gave us and believing that he would use that power appropriately.

That said, I agree...an illegal war cannot be won.

Jenn

[Andy_Stephenson]

97. Well...

1. Kerry investigated BFEE and should have known Bush (all BFEE members) lies.

2. Kerry wants to be the leader...he should have shown leadership...Millions were protesting. He po poed us and voted yes anyway.

3. I never believed the information being fed to me and I was not privy to see the info he saw. Looks like the people were right.

4. We have over a 1000 dead Americans now and well over 10k innocent Iraqi's. Kerry like Bush has a lot of blood dripping from his hands. A harsh statement but true nonetheless.

[hippywife]

99. TOTALLY!!

And will continue to protest against these wars no matter who is elected November 2nd.

[Lizzie Borden]

101. Am against the war...

always was against the war, and never bought any of the 23 (?) reasons Bush gave for it.

[DURHAM D]

102. Kerry has a secret plan to end the war. After he is sworn

in he will sign the International Crimal Court treaty. Then he will turn Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Perle, Libby, Rice and others over for trial. This will appease UBL and all other unhappy folks in the middle east and old Europe. It will show the world once again that the U.S.A. believes in the rule of law.

Seems like a win win to me.