Did anyone else notice Bush fumble his "Reagan-esque" line last night?

[Kid_A]

During his closing statement, Bush said something about we've climbed the mountain and can look down into the valley of peace. The line was obviously supposed to echo Reagan's "shining city on the hill" line. By the time the debate was over Bush appeared extremely rattled, and that caused him to flub what was probably supposed to be his Big Commercial Moment. I could almost hear Karl Rove slapping himself on his big, shiny forehead.

What Rove doesn't realize, or hopes that nobody else notices, is that while Reagan was a great speaker (admit it guys, it's true) who performed brilliantly in debates, George W. Bush is an idiot, and that also comes through in the debates.

I think even the most hard-core liberal can admit that Reagan's background as an actor served him really well as a speaker, and that while his policies may have been disastrous for the country, he delivered speeches extremely well. Unfortunately for modern-day Republicans, their guy is a moron who couldn't orate his way out of a wet paper bag.

[Bandit]

1. I figured that was his bone for the Christian Right

And possibly a hand out to Blacks as it was a play off MLK Jr's famous speech. but you are right Bush* flubbed it so it probably won't ever be talked about again.

[Vickers]

3. Yup, it was fundie-speak, no doubt

I'm surprised he didn't mention the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse.

:eyes:

He keeps sending mexed missages.

[hatrack]

2. It was like something from the Bible For Stupid People

Incredibly ham-fisted and inept!

[Ketcham]

4. just a small quibble

The "city on a hill" line goes back to John Winthrop and the Puritans in 1630:

"Wee are entered into a Covenant with God for this worke...Wee must Consider that wee shall be a citty on a hill, the eies of all people are uppon us" (http://www.apsanet.org/PS/sept96/morone.cfm).

[Kid_A]

7. But the point is that Reagan made that line his.

And no matter how hard they try to make it appear otherwise, Bush is no Ronald Reagan.

[DeepModem Mom]

5. Or if it was Nooner's line -- how was she reacting, I wonder?

[mark11727]

9. Slapping HERself on her big, shiny forehead :o)

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Totally noticed it. If you speak well, you can not only pull

something like that off, you can use it to really move your audience.

If you don't, you just sound hokey and insincere. That's what we had last night. Once again, under the delusion that he's Reagan.

[BiggJawn]

8. Patrick Stewart can "deliver a line" too...

But would I want him for Pretzeldent? Not if that's all I knew about him.

Yes, Ray-Gun could speak well. So could Sauruman.

Bush can't talk his way out of a paper bag, that's true. Makes me wonder how he managed to ever mumble his way into Pickle's panties...

[Kid_A]

12. I didn't say Reagan's great speaking skills made him a great President...

far from it. I'm just recognizing one of the things Reagan did will, which was his ability to deliver a good speech and perform well in debates. Just because I'm able to do that doesn't mean I think he was a good president.

That's why I think it's ridiculous for Bush's image makers to compare him to Reagan. They have to know by now that Bush isn't half the man Reagan was, and he never will be. Last night was the painful realization of that for them.

[BiggJawn]

17. I hope they realized it...

Got the fumble-fingers there. Yes, we are in agreement: It takes more than a good "way with words" to make a good president, and Bush can't even DREAM of being that good a speaker. We saw that, and it seems that perhaps a few more % points of the Murkan People saw that too.

I'm not so sure the RNC realized anything last night. If they were objective people, I could see some of them getting their wake-up call. But they're ReTHUGlicans, so objectivity has nothing to do with it. Wonder how much "Kool-Aid" they went through last night?

Man, is it lunchtime yet? I think I'm making less sense that Dumbya here.....

[klyon]

22. she was drunk?

KL

[Dem Agog]

10. The NYC Protestor's Sign Said it Best...

Photo of Ronald Reagan with the subtitle: "RON"
Photo of * with the subtitle: MO-RON

I did not vote for and did not agree with much of what Reagan stood for, but the man never embarrassed me as a US citizen the way that his Republican successors have. The thing I am angriest at Reagan for is appointing that SOB ass-kissing H.W. Bush as his VP.

[Eric J in MN]

11. is that a bible verse? nt

nt

[BeHereNow]

13. Not exactly...I think he was referring to Joshua/Moses/Israel

Hang on, I am going to post a thread about it.
BHN

[Bandit]

15. I think it came from MLK Jr

Remember the speech where he said, right before he was assassinated, I climbed to the top of the mountain and I have seen the Promised Land. A land where people are not judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. That is my wording as I can't remember verbatim but it very close.

[BeHereNow]

18. Moses was shown the Promised land

from the mountain. Promised to Abraham by God
for Israel, or the chosen people.
I just posted a thread about it here in GD here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2438062
Trust me, MKL and Bush were both referring to
this story, but in two VERY different contexts.
BHN

[TahitiNut]

14. The Valley of Death is Junior's Valley of Peace. Orwellian? Yup.

It's the peace of the grave ... the crypt ... the coffin. It's a place of no horizons and no vistas. This was truly the most misguided and drain-bamaged symbolism they could've chosen.

If I were to choose a symbolism for Junior, I'd have played on the "Cradle of Civilization" ... and emphasized a theme of Resurrection. They really blew it.

[slojim240]

16. Sorry, i will not admit that Reagan was a great speaker or communicator

If you remember Reagan's speeches after everyone his spinmeisters had to come out and explain what Reagan meant to say. Reagan appealed to the uninformed just as Bush does. Reagan muffed lines, murdered the English language but it didn't matter, they dubbed him a "great communicator" and there you have it. Reagan could not hold a candle to the likes of truly great communicators but the message of most great communicators was usually one of tolerance, peace, dignity, justice, fairness. This does not resonate with most people in the US who are racist, fascist, bigoted, dishonest, brain-dead, and brain-washed with religiosity. Facts, information, intellectual stimulation, and truth do not sell in this country.

[Kid_A]

19. Acknowledging one thing Reagan did well doesn't mean you can't despise him

I agree that Reagan appealed to the worst in our society, just like Bush does, but Reagan was able to package it much more convincingly than Bush does.

I'm not one of the people who can never admit when the other side does something right or when our side does something wrong. I think when we refuse to acknowledge the successes of our opponents then we make ourselves no better than the Freepers we mock regularly. I think it would cause Rush and Hannity and their ilk physical pain to say something positive about Bill Clinton. They cannot do it. And because I know I'm better than them, I'm able to look at Ronald Reagan and say "Yeah, he was an evil piece of shit and the country is still suffering as a result of his arrogant policies, but the man knew how to deliver a speech and win a debate."

Bush's handlers know that Reagan is still revered by conservatives, and will be for some time, so the Republican image-makers will always try to emulate him. It just so happens that the guy they're trying to mold into the next Reagan doesn't have a hundredth of the speaking ability and charisma that Reagan had.

[charlie]

24. I won't acknowledge it either

Not from partisan recalcitrance, but because it was never true. Reagan was a competent speaker, sometimes a good one. But the Great Communicator crap was GOP hype, made by the GOP, for the GOP, it didn't arise from popular acclamation.

[oneighty]

25. "I forgot to duck."

So said the Great Communicator, still living in his grade B movie career. A grade B movie actor and a grade B president.

180

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. Don't laugh

Kid_A, but I think it's taken from Martin Luther King's epic speech on the eve of his assassination.

[neebob]

21. It's from his "I have a dream" speech

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/Ihaveadream.htm

Scroll down to just below the last photo, where it says, "Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York."

Good grief. Is there a bigger scumbag on the planet? I don't think so.

[neebob]

23. Ack! It's even worse than that

Google on "valley of peace" and "martin luther king," and see how many pages come up. Here's one:

http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/2003/01/30/b/

Scroll down to the pic of the lady in the orange and white top, and read the paragraph to the left of her.

[crickets]

26. Correct

"I've Been to the Mountaintop"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemountaintop.htm

Some think MLK foretold his own death in that speech.