Want still MORE positive news? Check this story out:

[Selwynn]

My parents voted for George Bush in 2000.
They voted for Bob Dole in 1996.
They voted for George Bush in 1992.
They voted for George Bush in 1988.
They voted for Ronald Regan in 1984.
They voted for Ronald Regan in 1980.
They voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976.

In other words the last time they voted for anyone other than a Republican president was 1976. Now, about half of DU has now formed opinions of my parents as neocons and "freepers" and poor-haters, and warmongers and Nazis who are bad disgusting people. To that half I have the following statement which I would like to give briefly:

Dear sirs and madams: go fuck yourself.

Now, with that out of the way, the remaining half of DU that is able to understand context matters, and without knowing my parents you can't hope to have enough information about them personally to judge them - this is for you:

My parents emailed me last night and had this to say: they said that they were very surprised and honestly had to give Kerry a 10 and Bush a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 in the debate. My mother went on to say, "I haven't seen a presidential candidate perform than badly in a debate since Gerald Ford."

My parents have moved firmly into the "undecided" camp, with my mom leaning Kerry. And a lot of that was due to Kerry being able to present himself to the people last night, and shake of this stupid aura of not standing for anything or being a "flip-flopper."

I hope so strongly that Kerry takes this momentum all the way through each debate - and that Bush just totally implodes.

I would consider that God's mercy on us. :)
Sel

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. tell your Nazi Dad to go fuck himself

just kidding

[Selwynn]

8. Please don't delete the above post - please just leave it for everyone.

[molly]

9. Are you being funny or do you actually mean this?

[GeorgeBushytail]

10. Shame

That should make Sel feel great for sharing her great story with us.

[Selwynn]

11. Nah, it doesn't bother me - just proves what I said

about some of the attitudes here, and I've already responded to those attitudes: Fuck off and die. :)

To the rest of you! Woo - very happy last 24 hours!! :D

[Bandit]

21. Be humble about their indecision and don't gloat

It sounds like you have thinking parents who want to do the right thing. Don't turn them off. I think Kerry is a very strong candidate and every opportunity there is to have a direct comparrison with Bush* should not be missed. :thumbsup: to your folks. Mine are both dead but I believe, even though both were strong Republicans, that they would be voting Kerry this year if they were here to do so.

[GeorgeBushytail]

2. Make sure they watch the Edwards/Cheney debate

And tell us what they say after that. I hope they keep moving toward the light!!! ;^}

You must be feeling good today.

[molly]

3. Thanks for sensible post

some people cannot see shades of gray - kindof like *. Being undecided is great for us - I'm sure Kerry will win everyone over with the next 2 debates.

[Selwynn]

4. I guess I should clarify one thing...

... my parents are not these sort of swayed-like-a-reed-in-the-wind people who totally change their position based on one debate. My parents have both already been displeased with Bush, but not liked Kerry. So the debate was very good for them.

[mimitabby]

5. my step father

is also staunchly GOP. No matter what anyone has said to him in the past four years, he has supported bush.
Last night HE said Kerry did a great job on the debates !!!

[lancdem]

6. Thanks for sharing this

I think the debate was so important because it showed Kerry AS HE REALLY IS and not anything like the caricature the Bushies and media have created and perpetuated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Cool your parents are the Reagan Democrats

taht the GOP has counted on for years,

Many Reagan Democrats are now gonna come back to the fold... the reason... Bush

Don't worry we are also gonna get plenty of Kerry Republicans

[gratuitous]

12. Suggestion to approach your dad

You say he can't shake his image of Kerry as a flip-flopper. Wait for the proper opening (like when he says, "Yeah, but Kerry's such a flip-flopper"), and ask him for an example from the debate that he saw with his own eyes or heard with his own ears. If he tries to bring up the vote on the $87 billion, just say that Kerry addressed that during the debates (safe to say, because he did). Insist that dear old dad use an example from the debate.

When he clutches on his answer -- and he will -- follow up with a gentle question of just where he got that image of Kerry. If your dad's an honest guy, it should prompt him look into things a little more closely for himself.

[Selwynn]

16. So, my mom is a little more that, my Dad is just a Vietnam vet...

..who hasn't forgiven Kerry for testimony that he personally lived through right after coming home from Vietnam and getting treated like shit for serving.

In his mind, he feels like Kerry was disparaging all soldiers in Vietnam , and I don't think he's ever gotten over that.

I know, its wrong-headed. But my day was a Sgt in forward infantry 25th division, and it wasn't exactly pretty and I think stuff like that is just irrationally hard for him to respond well too.

My dad is such a great guy, I have to confess to you, if he can't see his way to vote for Kerry and votes for Bush - even doing so for the wrong reasons - I really don't care all that much. I just love him - he is such a sweet man...

Haven't seen my family in 2 years, but they're coming for Christmas!!!

[DURHAM D]

33. A reminder - your father may have been treated like shit

when he came home from Vietnam but not because he served and not by regular citizens. He was treated like shit by his government and by the Nixon / Ford administration because of their shame. It continued through Reagan's administration and the repug controlled congress in the 90's. No parades down main street. No increased veterans benefits. No recognition of their sacrifice. No recognition that agent orange was even a real problem. No public policy initatives of any kind.

The very costly long, long, thank you to WWII veterans still goes on today in the form of massive middle class entitlements that have greatly extended their life span but this so-called "greatest generation" was/is responsible for spanking their own sons when they lost in Vietnam. The shame of it. Look back at your grandparents generation if you want more context for the improper treatment of Vietnam era veterans.

Thank your Dad for his serivce and sacrifice. I am his contemporary and although I eventually came to realize the mistakes of Vietnam (in part due to the emergence of John Kerry and his ability to articulate what our generation was thinking) I was always angry at the old men who controlled our government and would not help the new vets.

[B Calm]

36. DURHAM, great post!

As a Vietnam veteran myself, you clearly described a lot of my friends at the VFW.

[Selwynn]

37. I definately understand that - but I don't think it felt like that to him

Or, I don't think that he is able to frame the feelings in that larger context.

[DURHAM D]

39. I know this all started about voting but I would encourage you

to ask him to relate his feelings directly after coming home from Vietnam. Perhaps you have already done so and please forgive the suggestion if I am presumptuous.

[Selwynn]

41. Yeah... I have

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. Durham, your post is dead on. Thanks.

[DemBones DemBones]

52. Well said. I was as anti-Viet Nam war as anyone but never

against the men and women who served there, my peers and our younger siblings. John Kerry is not a baby boomer but the majority of his fellow military men, the veterans of that awful war, were and are boomers, born after the end of WW II. Our parents got the GI bill and a lifetime of greater prosperity, the last generation in which most wives could afford to stay home with their children, well supported by their husbands' income. The Fifties were indeed "Happy Days" for the WW II vets, unless they were recalled into a reserve unit due to the Korean "conflict," the first war whose veterans weren't counted as heroes, the first war we couldn't win.

The "greatest generation" included a lot of men who made their sons' lives miserable, whether the sons served in 'Nam or not. Poppy Bush and Georgie are prime examples. Their wives weren't innocent, either, in the oneupsmanship directed at their own children, and daughters did not escape the condescension of the "greatest generation." They had managed so well and bravely, though the Great Depression and WW II -- what kind of wimps were we, kids who grew up trained to get under our desks if the mushroom clouds rose, kids who never knew life without the specter of the Bomb? And turn down that damn radio! How can you listen to that stuff?

The entire concept of the "greatest generation" is a sham, no better, no worse than any other. It's good to love and honor one's parents, when possible, but wrong to deify them or fail to see their shortcomings as well as their strengths.

[dean_dem]

Good for them...

I think all it takes is just realizing that Bush doesn't represent Conservative values (free markets, small government, etc.) anymore than he represents Liberal values. My mom has voted Republican for every President since Reagan, but she's a real smart lady, and I've been pounding that above point home since the beginning. Hopefully she will realize it before November.

[dean_dem]

13. Good for them...

EDIT: Ooops- posted twice...

[dean_dem]

14. Good for them...

EDIT: Ooops again.

[Demit]

15. actually I had no idea how important a topic your parents were in DU...

being fairly new. So the beginning of your post was rather startling in its hostility. I just had the feeling that it was too bad you couldn't just lead in to your good news with how your very Repub parents emailed you last night, etc.

[Selwynn]

17. You're right. You're new.

Welcome :toast:

:)

[Demit]

24. I'm well left of right :) and thanks!

[Selwynn]

18. Addendum:

So I'm not misinterpreted, its NOT my parents themselves that are seriously important to DU, other than its always nice when a community shows personal solidarity with the things that matter to each other.

The seriously important issue is a clash of perspectives in DU between those who feel justified in acting exactly like the hateful, angry, mean-sprity "freepers" we frequently criticize simply because "we are right" and people who believe we are "right" because we are called to and actualize a higher standard and deeper principles. It is a rift between those who see all who disagree with their point of view as the enemy worthy of hatred and those who believe that this nation is founded on dissent and debate, and the last thing we should do is wish for the quashing of all those who disagree with us.

It is the separation between people hold "either you're with us or your with the terrorists" thinking and therefore make sweeping generalizations about anyone who doesn't walk in lock step with a point of view, and people who understand the complexities of context and realize that it is not really possible to make snap judgments which are universally applicable , and that every person and situation needs to be looked at carefully and compassionately.

Hope that makes sense.
Sel

[Demit]

23. Oh.

[faithnotgreed]

38. right on selwynn. im new here too, but im with you on this all the way

love and communication and understanding are not an automatic unfortunately. and these crucial elements of humanity actually need to be "fought" for and shared with others constantly.

thank you for trying as you clearly do... and thank you to your parents for their raising a compassionate person, and for being willing to see the truth that kerry represents

its very clear that if previous generations had been encouraged to speak out and speak truth, sharing the good and bad in the open, so much better was possible for relationships across and between the generation gaps.

but thats not the situation, so its all the more "our" responsibility to fight for this basic. to reach out to one another and to understand that we are not all so different. and even if we are that different, we have ways to talk to each other, and we must at least try. its not always so simple of course but we just cannot allow what separates us to create this level of animosity, most especially when its our family. and its just a basic truth that many of the reasons all of us act as we do (incl and esp those who have served in war and lived during wartime), is because there is such deep pain behind the anger or underneath the silence.

thank you again to you and your parents.

[phylny]

57. My husband and my in-laws are all Republican

I love them no less. I don't deal with the in-laws politically - my dad-in-law had a practice of sending me anti-Kerry stuff "just for fun" until I put a stop to it.

My husband, on the other hand, is the best man I know. He's voted for only one Democrat, President Clinton's second term, and he's "undecided" now and is impressed with Kerry. I'm pleased and am encouraging him to find out more, to educate himself. In the end, his vote isn't going to sway things here in New York, but I still would love for him to vote Kerry this November.

So, you're right - snap judgments make us just as bad as Freepers. Let's stick to the issues, continue to talk up our guys, and kill naysayers with kindness.

[Lusted4]

19. Please tell all GOP friends to watch the debates

on C-SPAN. To get the real debate. Then make a opinion for themself.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. That is good news............ maybe you could try to explain to you Dad

What Kerry actually did and where Kerry was coming from. I believe Kerry was trying to save men like your father, his life and his pshycological well being. I think Kerry believed that he could tell the stories of all those troops who talked to him and make congress see that they were put in a terrible impossible situation.

[Vickers]

22. Wait...your parents gave Georgie a FIVE???

They ain't out of the woods, yet!

:toast:

Here's to hoping they make it all the way out. My mom is poking her head out a little more each day.

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

25. A couple points...

Selwynn...good post, very good post. I too have relatives and friends and acquantences who fall into the same camp as your parents. And i have gotten similar feedback from them (not all but a few quite surprised me).

I think that many are missing some of the positives from the successful debate last night:

- Undecideds, and Republicans (no less) are taking a second, even a strong look at Kerry that wouldn't have happened otherwise (for many it is there first unscripted/uncontrolled look)

- They are seeing that he is not the Bogey man that George and team have been making him out to be, and deserves a serious review

- Maybe, most importantly, they are questioning their decision and viewpoint. And this, more than anything, may be the most inmportant factor
- Questioning the BS the republicans have fed them about Kerry
- Questioning the choices that bush has made and will make
- Questioning the logic and methods used by bushco

When brainwashing or unbrainwashing someone you have to break their trust of their source of information...Kerry has sowed doubts among 'the other side' of the validity of data they are receiving from BushCo...we have made them question their current reality.

I think you will find that if we want to get a real landslide (and i truly think it could happen)...we very much need these people (shaky/unconvinced republicans and undecideds)...we very much need their questioning and doubt on Bush. Kerry has done that.

Don't forget that most DUers are in bubble who see a different reality of BushCo...(we know when the News is being subtly biased; we recognize the repetitive lies, we 'see through' the BS) these questioning republicans, conservatives, and undecideds have had a chance to 'finaly see' Kerry...and because of the good performance they are willing to take another look.

An interesting point from a friend of mine....he told me: "I think I see what you like about Kerry"

:) be kind to these people.... they will be helping you to elect John Kerry as the next president...talk to them nice, help them to see more...then we can jump on them and teach how to spell 'chimp', 'smirk', and 'pResdient Bush' :)

Sel, thanks again for the post...

[calimary]

28. Like this post, too.

The fact is we DO need these people. Every one of them who leans toward falling onto our side of the fence. We need to catch them with care and sensitivity and break their fall. Then they can stand up and go vote.

[Selwynn]

29. "I think I see what you like about kerry"

That statemen from your friend... is powerful...

Man, if we can get that sentiment to catch on it will be kerry in a landslide.

Thansk for the good comments.

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Hear, hear! Another fine post! nt

[Love Bug]

26. Good for them!

It sounds like your folks are starting to realize Boosh is no real Republican. Hopefully the other debates will solidify that idea and perhaps they will vote for Kerry this time! That is good news, indeed!

Hey, you are the only one with relatives who are considering Kerry after a long history of voting for others. My sister voted for Reagan, Reagan, Boosh I, Perot, Dole, and Boosh II and is now a complete Kerry supporter (not that I had anything to do with it :evilgrin:)! So that shows people can change their mind, even if it takes a long time to do so.

[theboss]

27. I think Kerry gave himself a chance last night with people like your folks

From what you said, I don't think your parents are "Reagan Democrats;" they sound more like "Rockefeller Republicans." But there are a fairly large group of them out there and I question how married to their candidates they are.

Let's face it, people on this board were going to vote for Kerry even if he went on tv last night, stripped down to his briefs, and started playing some bluegrass music. And the Freepers are in the same boat.

I like to believe that this middle of the road group would vote for "competency." I think that has been the issue that Kerrey has misplayed so far but really nailed last night. Bush and Cheney promised us that the adults would be in charge. I think there is a huge case to me made on the basis that they don't know how to run the government here or set one up in Iraq.

[sweetheart]

30. What a blessing

Jesus christ lives with y'all. It is really touching.

God bless you and your family, selwynn.

-s :-)

[B Calm]

31. Mike Malloy last week challenged right wingers

to listen to his show for two weeks. After the two weeks is up they'll be able to think clearly! We all love our parents and your mom and dad needs your help. See if you can get them to listen to Malloy, they need to be de-programmed in the worst way.

[Trajan]

32. This is fallacious poppycock ....

You assert that 'half of DU' considers supporters of Bush to be 'Nazi's .... That is pure rubbish .... Surely MOST DUers consider YOUR PARENTS, specifically, to be nothing other than fine, upstanding citizens ....

Frankly: I would rather insult your parents than half of DU .... But I havent even consider doing so till you mentioned it ....

I suppose Ill just be as nice as I always am .... as most DUers are ...

[JanMichael]

34. I was puzzled by the comments myself. They seemed out of...

...context.

And somewhat, um, melodramatic? Other than that I completely understood his point.

[Selwynn]

35. Which apparently is: not very

My intention was not to be "scientific" in my anecdotal percentage breakdown of duers. I'm sure its a small, though frequently very vocal percentage of people that reflect that attitude. That doesn't make it less frustrating.

The thing I don't really understand is, if the statements don't represent you, then who cares? Enjoy the good news, forget the rest. :)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. Oh...you were doing a Gallup Poll in regards to your parents...

...heavily weighted in one direction.

[Selwynn]

45. Touche!

:)

[Ladyhawk]

40. I'm so glad to hear that.

Unfortunately, I think my family are incapable of changing their minds. My mother, with her steady diet of Fox, Rush, Hannity and Pat Robertson, wants a theocracy. She told me so. My brother, with his steady diet of Fox, Rush and Ayn Rand, wants rule by the greedy. He told me so and pointed me to Atlas Shrugged and "The Virtue of Selfishness."

My emotions regarding all this are pretty fucked. :(

Obviously some * voters will still listen to reason.

[Selwynn]

42. I was in love with Virtue of Selfishness in college...

I still like the Fountainhead.. and there were some critiques of religiosity in VoS that I think attracted me to it...

...but I am so overwhelmingly thankful that I found my way clear to reject the conclusions of Rand.

That was a good analysis though, I'm afraid.

[fujiyama]

46. Very cool

and how encouraging. :)

You live in Idaho right? Talk about a very conservative state...How do you survive?

[Zen Democrat]

47. I had lunch with a brand new former-Republican today.

This guy is a retired partner from one of the Big Four accounting firms. Republican all his life. Told me he's voting for Kerry, as is his wife. He's actively talking up Kerry to his Republican friends and neighbors and said they are just voting for Bush because they have the Republican Party ingrained in them.

He said he tells them, "I, too, have been a voting Republican for the past 30 years, but the Republican Party left me. The Republican Party I've always supported no longer exists."

He went on to tell me that the Republican values he's always held dear came from his embrace of Barry Goldwater's "Conscience of a Conservative," which he read as a young man. But, said he, the things that he believed about the Republican Party have been twisted beyond recognition, such as: the balanced budget, and keeping the government out of citizens private lives. He specifically cited the Republican efforts to pass a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. He's a rich man and thinks that it's unconscionable that he received huge tax cuts with the economy is such bad shape. He thinks that tax breaks to corporations for outsourcing jobs is wrong. He's strongly for stem cell research. He went on and on and was ON FIRE. He said his wife wants him to keep quiet about his voting preference this year because it makes it uncomfortable to be around their old friends; but, he said he can't take the fact that his friends just repeat the talking points mantra without any basic understanding of the dangerous path they're traveling.

I came away shocked. I've known this guy for 10 years and have never been able to crack his staunch Republicanism. He was gung-ho for Bush in 2000. Now he admits he made a mistake. There must be thousands more just like him.

[DemBones DemBones]

56. Anyone here from Arizona? I'm guessing Arizonans can

hear Barry Goldwater spinning in his grave as Republicans want to amend the Constitution at the drop of a talking point, and as GOP presidents have come to be associated with huge deficits.

[jwirr]

48. Sorry I am celibate!

I happen to be very afraid of the fascist policies of the bushie. BUT I never said that the people who voted for him in 2000 were fascist. Most of us did not know much about bushies background until recently when we became suspicious of his move to take our civil rights away and other moves that do not enhance democracy and undermine rule of law that has existed in our nation since 1782. We did our research - the proof is available in both present actions and the National Archives for all to see. The Supreme Court has ruled at least 3 of his ideas unconstitutional. That means that they are not democratic.

Furthermore, many republicans prior to bushie 2000 selection were a different kind of politician. Why do you think so many of them are standing up against him? We have had ambassadors, generals, congressmen and women, two presidents sons and many other old time republicans come out and endorse Kerry. I grew up in a republican state - the republican party has changed in the last years. Your parents are not being attacked. But the bushies are with reason.

You might also want to read Edwin Black's book "War Against the Weak". It is a history of another facist movement in this country in the early 1900s. The documentation in this book conincides with the National Archives names, especially the Harriman/Bush connection. It is a history that few people know. The book is so well documented that no one can say it is untrue. My family was a victim of this little party.

[L.A.dweller]

49. That is positive and all

but my mother has voted Democratic since the 60s. She hated bush after he "won" the 2000 election but ever since 9/11 she STANDS BEHIND HIM. I know plenty of people who are disgusted with bush but for every one of them there is someone who approves of him.

[proud patriot]

50. That is great news

Congratulations :bounce:

[tom_paine]

51. Yes, friend Selwynn, KEEP IT COMING!

You know, it IS tough to keep a grip on the fact that so many Republicans aren't Busheviks and have honestly been duped.

Or they haven't noticed the sands shifting steadily beneath their feet as the Party became so divorced fom most of it's own core values, such as fiscal discipline, and given the Orwellian-est of flip-flops, that a Conservative would want to support the purposeful bankrupting of the nation.

What an odious thought, how goddamned ruinous and downright unpatritic a concept.

Anyway, the point is that it is hard to seperate that thought out always while we are simultaneously amped up in the "fight of our lives" for the future and soul of the Nation.

It takes a handful of seconds to type a foolish message (believe me, I KNOW), and after an hour, it is cemented in stone forever.

Consider that, Selwynn.

But keep the GOOD NEWS coming. I'm loving it!

[DemBones DemBones]

54. And again, well said! This carping over Selwynn's words

is silly. Many DUers (or perhaps many who masquerade as DUers) have in fact made comments to the effect that anybody who votes Republican is a fool, all Republicans are inherently evil, blood brothers of KKKarl Rove himself, and so forth.

One problems is that many here are very young. That's not a bad thing, all of us are very young at one point in our lives, and I certainly enjoyed my own glory days. But it's important to attempt, when young, to realize that there are disadvantages to being young. In youth, we may have great physiques and all our own hair, as well as our superior progressive minds, but we lack the experience of living as an adult and seeing how events cycle around.

Some are able to realize that they are limited in terms of years while others are sure no one over 30 can possibly have an idea or principle to call their own. (Not long ago, a newer DUer was insisting that young voters cared nothing about the possibility of a draft, that only old fogies would care. After she's used the phrase "old fogies" twice, I asked her to define it and she said it meant people over 30. And we thought Mario Savio was dead!) I'm still bemused, unsure if she was serious or a disruptor. I suspect the latter but she had 200-300 posts, as best I recall, so at least she was a rather serious disruptor.

We have a lot to teach each other, whether we are young or old, but I've always observed that it's wise to listen to the experience of older people, whether they're five or fifty years older than me. Of course, some of what older people tell me is incorrect, or wrong by my principles, but I learn by filtering information from various sources. Older people who tell me things that are incorrect or wrong by my principles have quite likely been hoodwinked by today's fascists disguised as conservatives, ably assisted by incredible spin in the media for thirty years or more.

In the Sixties, my leftist peers often incorrectly called conservatives, racists, and others whose ways we opposed "fascists," but today there is a new breed of fascist who call themselves neoconservatives and dominionists or (misleadingly) "old-fashioned conservatives." They are deceiving the people who have been Rockefeller Republicans or Reagan Democrats for a good portion of their lives. Hating those who are victims of deception is pointless but we often confuse them with the true evil doers of the right. We need to distinguish our enemies from those who are merely being fooled by our enemies, so we can fight the former and work to influence the other through sharing information.

[DemBones DemBones]

55. And again, well said! This carping over Selwynn's words

is silly. Many DUers (or perhaps many who masquerade as DUers) have in fact made comments to the effect that anybody who votes Republican is a fool, all Republicans are inherently evil, blood brothers of KKKarl Rove himself, and so forth.

One problems is that many here are very young. That's not a bad thing, all of us are very young at one point in our lives, and I certainly enjoyed my own glory days. But it's important to attempt, when young, to realize that there are disadvantages to being young. In youth, we may have great physiques and all our own hair, as well as our superior progressive minds, but we lack the experience of living as an adult and seeing how events cycle around.

Some are able to realize that they are limited in terms of years while others are sure no one over 30 can possibly have an idea or principle to call their own. (Not long ago, a newer DUer was insisting that young voters cared nothing about the possibility of a draft, that only old fogies would care. After she's used the phrase "old fogies" twice, I asked her to define it and she said it meant people over 30. And we thought Mario Savio was dead!) I'm still bemused, unsure if she was serious or a disruptor. I suspect the latter but she had 200-300 posts, as best I recall, so at least she was a rather serious disruptor.

We have a lot to teach each other, whether we are young or old, but I've always observed that it's wise to listen to the experience of older people, whether they're five or fifty years older than me. Of course, some of what older people tell me is incorrect, or wrong by my principles, but I learn by filtering information from various sources. Older people who tell me things that are incorrect or wrong by my principles have quite likely been hoodwinked by today's fascists disguised as conservatives, ably assisted by incredible spin in the media for thirty years or more.

In the Sixties, my leftist peers often incorrectly called conservatives, racists, and others whose ways we opposed "fascists," but today there is a new breed of fascist who call themselves neoconservatives and dominionists or (misleadingly) "old-fashioned conservatives." They are deceiving the people who have been Rockefeller Republicans or Reagan Democrats for a good portion of their lives. Hating those who are victims of deception is pointless but we often confuse them with the true evil doers of the right. We need to distinguish our enemies from those who are merely being fooled by our enemies, so we can fight the former and work to influence the other through sharing information.