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Real Time with Bill Maher--- Can't be spoken about enough tonight...

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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 11:52 PM
Original message
Real Time with Bill Maher--- Can't be spoken about enough tonight...
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:16 AM by Zinfandel
Bill Maher's show tonight on HBO-- was so absolutely a kick in the balls, into your throat, cut out the conservatives bullshit. After the pathetic performance by Bush...Maher is so far into Kerry's corner, he never came out hesitating...

From start to finish...The monologue was actually so unually fucking funny and great, to the uneasy, at first the Dixie Chicks to the great George Carlin to the republican, that..uh, what would you call him? to the absolute very end. AN unbelievable fucking show...I'm NOT overstating...

I thought Maher's first show this past June. couldn't be beat, the one with with Michael MOOre...This show blew it away.

Got to see it ALL! It'll be on HBO all week, repeated,

YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED! MY WORD!
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gospelized Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. still too much
Kerry bashing for my tastes. he even said he didn't win the debate.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yep. And I can
watch Tucker Carlson clones on cable news 24/7. Why the hell was he even on?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
39. Tucker pointed out the he may not vote for Bush....
because he thinks the most important issue is Iraq, and that invading Iraq was a mistake due to no WMD, etc.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. I only partially agree with you.
All of the above was correct except that Bill consistently attacks Kerry. The previous show he was so nasty quite a few people dropped HBO rather than listen to the Kerry bashing. Tonite it was all about what Kerry should have done and what Bill would have done. Carlin interceded and defended Kerry. I couldn't believe that Bill mentioned to Tucker that he thought Begala using the Debate clips of Bush was "a low blow". Bill doesn't like Bush but he is anything but in Kerry's corner. I have begun to wonder if aliens have taken Bill away. That being said, I thought ,by the tone of the opening monoluge ,that he had stopped ragging on Kerry. That was what persuaded me to continue watching, but Alas! not so.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maher simply sets up asshole like Carlson...
Bill was throughly effective.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Doesn't it bother you that he trashes Kerry?
By the other posts I am not alone in my observation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Then don't watch it. He bashed Dean during the primaries.
We could watch it or not. It was our choice. I happen to like his show better than I did before because I have accepted that he is an equal opportunity basher.
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Yes it bothers me, however
we all know he's ABB, always has been since * cartel got him thrown off ABC. I don't like his criticisms, but I think he does more good with his constant nasty jabs at *.

And frankly I think he's funny.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
46. He doesn't "trash" Kerry. He sometimes criticizes Kerry. Not the
same thing.

Maher is an anti-Bush Independent who voted for Nader last time. He is voting for Kerry this time, more because he's anti-Bush than because he's for Kerry. Otherwise, he'd vote for Nader again.

He mainly criticizes Bush, but sometimes criticizes Kerry. I WANT to see someone who finds fault with both sides. I don't want to only see people who are 100% in someone's corner and never criticizes him or her. That's partly what's wrong with Bush....our administration is so scared of him that no one ever criticizes him. Even the media doesn't ask hard questions, or they won't get access to him again.

Maher has mainly good things to say about Kerry. But occasional criticisms, even if I disagree, are okay, and make his opinion in favor of Kerry all the more believable.
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George W. Dunce Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Last week
Kerry is a "bitch" because he didn't fight back , "he is wearing panties" sounds like bashing to me.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. I saw it tonight
That was some great TV. I forget the club for growths guy's name, but Maher called him on his bullshit.

When the club for growth dude started talking about the perspective of the Iraqi people, Maher said, "what the fuck do you know about what the Iraqi people think?"

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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He used to represent the CATO Institute or Institution? Forget...
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:14 AM by Zinfandel
Hmmm...
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Maher was better than last week
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:15 AM by fujiyama
but he still hasn't picked on what Kerry said - either in the speeches the week before or last night's debate. He has a right to say what he wishes Kerry would say. That's fine, but he doesn't give him credit on Kerry saying several important things - He made it clear that Iraq wasn't Al Quaeda. That Bush ignored real threats such as NK. He remained extremely calm and collected (which Maher doesn't seem to understand is necessary...claimed he was too "gentlemanly"). That Bush has squandered relationships with many countries which are absolutely vital in fighting terrorism.

Kerry also said that he would cancel bunker buster nukes...That really impressed me in an atmosphere where a quarter of the country is calling for the US to nuke the entire middle east. For God's sake what else do some liberals want him to do? Disband the military?

I don't really know how much more Kerry could have said.

Maher did rip apart that weirdo though. What a freak. If I were a conservative I'd be emberassed for that guy.

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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. WTF is with the Club for Growth nerd?
He is the ONLY one who laughs at his own jokes (he and whoever that ONE person was in the audience who was a Republican).

I'd like to see Michael Moore back on there soon.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. I didn't like the way he still picked on Kerry.
He wants Kerry to say that the troops should come home now and it can't be done as much as we would all love to hear it it would be a lie. He sure did a job on Tucker though, made him look like a fool and George Carlin is one the very best.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. My word: He's in Kerry's corner...He also has a "semi-objective" show
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:27 AM by Zinfandel
(Objective? Get real)...Devils Advocate--HMMM... When one is a host, unless the person in question is a complete fool, As was put forth in front of us tonight...Geee... did Kerry take a hit or two...WOW! BFD!...Maher kissed Kerry''s Royal-Ass ALL- night...Pay attention!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Nope , I know devil's advocate, and Bill isn't being a Devil's Advocate
regarding Kerry. When he plays that game it is usually for the length of one show with a particular guest. This bashing is consistent and seems to have nothing to do with any of the guests as it is a constant thread. I thought Bill had recovered from voting for Nader in 2000, but apparently not. I have been a huge fan of Bill's for years and I think I may dump him if this continues. It is not consistent to bash Bush and then continue to trash Kerry.
Bill is doing what they accuse liberals of all the time .Not providing a solution. If not Kerry who would he have as president? he doesn't offer an alternative. Maybe he is back to Nader. Who knows, but he certainly isn't supporting Kerry.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Indeed, you saw a different show.
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:47 AM by Zinfandel
His admiration and respect for the great George Carlin, who is is certainly not in the republican's corner, nor in any religious circles, to be sure... from Maher's...

What does one really and actually expect? For Maher to come dripping in from one direction, ONLY?

Or present for most folks viewing in, a semi-balanced affair?

Or should it be your way (how long would you stay on the air-waves)???

Completely and totally NO negative on Kerry...This is Television...ratings...get it?

For what the rest of TV had or has to offer this was a fucking devastatingly and unbelievable, fantastic, wonderful and great show!

Got to see it and make up your own mind!!!!!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes, it was a great show. In a country with free speech....so far.
It can not be just our way.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Funny how many people saw the same show I did!
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
44. I Saw it....

....and I laughed my ass off.

Sorry, Kerry isn't perfect and Bill calls him on it.....good for him!

Cheers,
Kim :toast:
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. DAMN!! It's TIVOed, and hubby is reading to the kids!
I NEED to see it now....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. Some of this thread is unbelievable.
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:45 AM by madfloridian
Helen Thomas, Howard Zinn, Jonathan Schell, and many others have become persona non grata at DU because they have said Kerry must speak up more firmly.

The Bill Maher show is not always what I agree with, but it is a forum for free speaking and free thought and great dialogue.

We have two candidates for prez who were not against invading Iraq, one gave the authority that congress should have and one did the invading. It is water under the bridge, yes, but to some it is still not that clear.

Is our nation going to continue the imperial movement we have started? I am voting for Kerry because I don't think he will, but he has not said for sure. And if he does do it,he will get more nations to help him remap it. Yes, it is confusing. Edwards was very much for this war, more than Kerry.

Stop the bashing of anyone on here or anyone in the media who say anything critical of Kerry. That is hurting our party more than someone begging him to speak up more firmly. Trust me, I know. We had a viewing party here last night in our area. People thought he did well, but they still wanted a more distinct line drawn.

All of you know we are supporting Kerry, but this is my country, not his, not Bush's. I have a right to know if we are going to continue to take over the mideast piece by piece. Bill Maher has his own show. He has a right to say what he thinks.

Shutting down dialogue now is even more dangerous than criticizing the candidates.
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Right On!
"Shutting down dialogue now is even more dangerous than criticizing the candidates. "
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Thank you. We are acting just like what we hate if we do that.
:hi:
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Simply put: We're close to doing to ourselves what they did to us. <eom>
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 12:59 AM by deuce98
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #23
41. I just don't happen to agree with Maher's criticisms. Is that okay?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. I don't agree with his criticisms of Kerry either
But I watch and if I don't like hearing what Bill is saying about Kerry I walk out of the room or change the channel. I watched last night, I thought it was a good show(I laughed pretty hard) and with minimal Kerry bashing.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. Agreed, and....
....you are not alone.:thumbsup:
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. Maher sez "Kerry should do this, Kerry should do that"
Then the Club for Growth a-hole sits 3 feet away from Maher and says "Kerry voted for the war" and other shaded lies and Bill is silent.

Shit, Bill, if you can't call the guy on your show on his BS, where do you get off giving JK advice?

Bill can't see past his own prejudices. Why in hell would Kerry utter that bush is "incompetent" when shrub's own performance proved that in spades? First rule of politics: stay out of the way when your opponent is self destructing!

Carlin explained it perfectly: Kerry pricked the "bush is an expert on foreign policy" balloon last night and gained cred. He has more time and more debates to exploit the door he opened. Had JK followed Maher's wishlist, the story today would have been how mean and spiteful Kerry was. Bill doesn't understand that a campaign is a series of events, not a single-night prize fight.

And, as others have pointed out, Bill doesn't bother following events. Had he watched any of Kerry's apperances of late, he would have seen that JK HAS been beating the shit out of bush. But let's face it, it's easier to pontificate about what's wrong than what's right, especially if the "wrong" part has been addressed and dealt with.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. It was like a prize fight during the primaries. Let it be that way now.
Everytime Kerry speaks out firmly he gets better press. Think about it. People are hungry for the truth.

Kerry has been doing a good job from what I have seen, but he is only beginning to address this war.

Why don't you just not watch Bill Maher if you don't like his show. When he was bashing Dean during the primaries, we had a choice....we could watch or not watch. If we said anything, folks here said deal with it.

I am sorry, but Maher is really not a Democrat at heart, you know. He is very independent in his thinking.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Gee! "independent thinking"..too radical for me!
Maher what the fuck is wrong with you? atheist!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. LOL We are trying to stop free speech here! Wow.
Your post is good, and it was a tremendous show. I did not agree with all of it, but the dialogue and free thought was stimulating.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Because I point out a few inconsistencies in Maher, I should turn
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 01:03 AM by stopbush
him off? Why?

Look, he's inconsistent. He's not a Dem. I get that. But he's pontificating that Kerry hasn't said what his position on Iraq is. Geez, it's clear to me, Bill.

Bill needs to get married and have kids, Then, he'd understand. It's like when your kids go to school. The school might have a disciplinary plan that escalates if your kid doesn't shape up: first, a note home, then a visit to the principal, then a conference with the parents, teacher and principal, then a final warning, then expulsion if things don't improve. As a parent, you agree to give the school that authority to act as a surrogate in your stead. You understand that they need to keep control and that all the kids are going to be treated the same. You OK their plan and method in advance because you know that without that authority, the kids will wreck the place.

If, however, the school ignores all of those agreed to procedures and calls you up to tell you, "Johnny acted up in class today...so we sent him off to fight in Iraq," you MIGHT feel that the school overstepped the boundaries that you thought you had agreed to.

That's how I view Kerry's decision on Iraq.

Besides, I really turned in to hear Carlin.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Hey, I raised 5 kids, and I taught others' kids for 33 years.
I don't know how to view Kerry's position on Iraq yet. He did well in the debate, but I am still not sure if he is for remapping the mideast.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Here's what JK said about Iraq back in April. Tell me that this is
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 01:26 AM by stopbush
the same position as bush (and, as far as remapping the mideast, he brought up the 14 "permanent" American bases being built in Iraq. Doesn't seem like JK wants to stay there forever like bush)

This moment in Iraq is a moment of truth. Not just for this administration, the country, the Iraqi people, but for the world. This may be our last chance to get this right. We need to put pride aside to build a stable Iraq.

We must reclaim our country’s standing in the world by doing what has kept America safe and made it more secure before—leading in a way that brings others to us so that we are respected, not simply feared, around the globe.

This will not be easy, a hard truth that sometimes fails to get through the news papers and daily reports. But we can accomplish the mission. And we must. Because I can tell you from personal experience, we owe it to the brave men and women who stand in harm’s way at this moment.

In America, we’re blessed. When you stop and think about what it takes for those individuals who risk their lives, say good-bye to their families, and go so far away to serve their country— it is a profound gesture of honor.

It symbolizes the spirit of America—that there are men and women who are ready to do what it takes to live and lead by our values. I met so many of them when I fought in Vietnam and I have met them since from Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Iraqi Freedom. Their love of country and sense of duty, is special. You carry it with you always. And it is because of them and those who carry on today, that together we have got to do what it takes to get this done right.

We have got to come together as never before to build a stable Iraq. Not just to finish the mission, but to remind the world that a shared endeavor can bring the world closer toward peace.

As complicated as Iraq seems, there are really only three basic options: One, we can continue to do this largely by ourselves and hope more of the same works; Two, we can conclude it’s not doable, pull out and hope against hope that the worst doesn’t happen in Iraq; Or three, we can get the Iraqi people and the world’s major powers invested with us in building Iraq’s future.

Mistakes have complicated our mission and jeopardized our objective of a stable free Iraq with a representative government, secure in its borders. We may have differences about how we went into Iraq, but we do not have the choice just to pick up and leave—and leave behind a failed state and a new haven for terrorists.

I believe that failure is not an option in Iraq. But it is also true that failure is not an excuse for more of the same.

Here is how we must proceed.

First, we must create a stable and secure environment in Iraq. That will require a level of forces equal to the demands of the mission. To do this right, we have to truly internationalize both politically and militarily: we cannot depend on a US-only presence. In the short-term, however, if our commanders believe they need more American troops, they should say so and they should get them.

But more and more American soldiers cannot be the only solution. Other nations have a vital interest in the outcome and they must be brought in.

To accomplish this, we must do the hard work to get the world’s major political powers to join in this mission. To do so, the President must lead. He must build a political coalition of key countries, including the UK, France, Russia and China, the other permanent members of the UN Security Council, to share the political and military responsibilities and burdens of Iraq with the United States.

The coalition should endorse the Brahimi plan for an interim Iraqi government, it should propose an international High Commissioner to work with the Iraqi authorities on the political transition, and it should organize an expanded international security force, preferably with NATO, but clearly under US command.

Once these elements are in place, the coalition would then go to the UN for a resolution to ratify the agreement. The UN would provide the necessary legitimacy. The UN is not the total solution but it is a key that opens the door to participation by others.

In parallel, the President must also go to NATO members and others to contribute the additional military forces and to NATO to take on an organizing role. NATO is now a global security organization and Iraq must be one of its global missions.

To bring NATO members and others in, the President must immediately and personally reach out and convince them that Iraqi security and stability is a global interest that all must contribute to. He must also convince NATO as an organization that Iraq should be a NATO mission—a mission consistent with the principles of collective security that have formed the basis of the alliance’s remarkable history in the pursuit of peace and security.

To bring others in it is imperative we share responsibility and authority. When NATO members have been treated with respect, they have always – always – answered the call of duty. So too with other key contributors. Every one has a huge stake in whether Iraq survives its trial by fire or is consumed by fire and becomes a breeding ground for terror, intolerance and fear.

I know that some will say that this is an impossible task, but I believe it is doable with the right approach. We must lead but we must listen. We must use every tool of diplomacy and persuasion to bring others along.

I also understand that perhaps NATO cannot undertake the entire Iraq mission right away. But it could possibly take control of Iraq’s borders, take responsibility for Northern Iraq and/or the Polish sector, and train Iraq’s army. If NATO did this, it would free up as many as 20,000 American troops, and open the door for other countries outside of NATO to participate.

The immediate goal is to internationalize the transformation of Iraq, to get more foreign forces on the ground to share the risk and reduce the burden on our own forces. That is the only way to succeed in the mission while ending the sense of an American occupation.

We must take these steps because there is greater strength in greater numbers and stronger alliances. And failure to move forward will be seen as a failure of American leadership.


Second:

The second key element is the High Commissioner. Backed by a newly broadened security coalition, he should be charged with overseeing elections, the drafting of a constitution and coordinating reconstruction. The Commissioner should be highly regarded by the international community and have the credibility to talk to all the Iraqi people.

This Commissioner should be directed to work with Iraq’s interim government, the new US Ambassador, and the international community after June 30 to ensure a process that continues to move forward on the path toward sovereignty, while focusing on the immediate needs of the Iraqis themselves.

The Iraqi people desperately need financial and technical assistance that is not swallowed up by bureaucracy and no-bid contracts, but instead goes directly into the hands of grassroots organizations. They need to see the tangible benefits of reconstruction in the form of jobs, infrastructure, and services. And they need to be able to communicate their concerns to international authorities without feeling they are being insulted and disrespected in their own country.

Third:

We need a massive training effort to build Iraqi security forces that can actually provide security for the Iraqi people. We must accept that the effort to date has failed: it must be rethought and reformed. Training cannot be hurried. It must be done in the field and on the job as well as in the classroom. Units cannot be put on the street without backup from international security forces. They cannot be rushed into battle before they are ready.

This is a task to do in partnership with other nations, not just on our own. This is a task which must be successful. If we fail to create viable Iraqi security forces – military and police – there is no successful exit for us and other nations.

But why would others join a cause that they did not support in the first place? For one simple reason: it’s in their self-interest. For the Europeans, Iraq’s failure could endanger the security of their oil supplies, further radicalize their large Muslim populations, threaten destabilizing refugee flows, and seed a huge new source of terrorism.

And for Iraq’s neighbors, a civil war in Iraq could draw them in, put moderates in the region on the defensive and radicals on the rise. And a civil war could threaten the regimes in Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.

These compelling interests have always existed and they must now be the central piece of a diplomatic effort long overdue. Will a new approach in Iraq be difficult to achieve? Yes.
Is there a guarantee of success? No.

In light of all the mistakes that have been made, no one can say that success is certain, but I can say that if we do not try, failure is all too likely.

If the President will take the needed steps to share the burden and make progress in Iraq – if he leads – then I will support him on this issue.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Hey, I am on your side in this. I am supporting Kerry.
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 01:33 AM by madfloridian
I still think we should not be there. I still think we are there because of the concept that it is the nation we needed to stabilize and use as a gateway to control the middle east.

I think it is wrong. We have no right to the middle east, or to any part of the world for that matter. We can help a country without bombing the hell out of its infrastructure. We did not have to do that. It was wrong, and it was immoral. We have killed over 20,000 civilians by many counts, and and many believe it is higher.

They did nothing to us to deserve it. It is wrong.

However, since I know what Bush will do, and I think Kerry will be much wiser, I am voting for Kerry.

Defending the indefensible does not allow for much sincerity.

AND on edit: We have no right to tell Bill Maher what to put on his show.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Isn't that surpressing our free speech?
We can tell him anything we want. Whether he chooses do anything about it is his decision! LOL!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. I think you know what I mean.
Helen Thomas for example, as she is one of my favorite courageous people, was totally put down here for criticizing Kerry.

You may say whatever you wish. Whether it is sensible or not...to condemn any media person who criticizes Kerry.....is still the point I am making.

Hey, condemn away! Go for it. Many on this board are getting very quick to suppress dissent against Kerry. I think you know what I mean.

Conason is pushing Kerry again today at Salon...to bash Bush harder. Guess he will be next.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. No doubt
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 02:18 AM by Robeson
We have no right to be there, it was simply part of the Neo-con agenda to get access to energry resources, and to militarily set us up in the region for imperialist economic interests.

Now that being said, as you stated, we now have a record with Bush, and we know he had no more of an exit strategy than the Germans did when they went into Stalingrad, or the French did when they went into Dien Bien Phu. I think - hell I know - Kerry is more of an intellectual than Bush, and it is my hope that he can actually develop a coherent exit strategy, and minimalize loss on both sides.

As for his vote for giving Bush the authority, I try to be a realist, however unsavory it may be, and understand that Kerry was looking to run for President in 2004, and I don't believe for one moment he had any high ideas about his vote to give Bush authority, and I honestly don't buy his obfuscations after, with respect to believing that Bush wouldn't go in before exploring all channels. Does anyone really believe that? Who here ever thought that Bush was going to do everything possible to avoid conflict? Come on. I've got some Enron stock I'd love to unload if anyone believes that. Well, Kerry's no idiot either, and smarter than us, and he knew Bush would go in. But, he was between a rock and a hard place. He is a political animal, has been on the "Hill" for decades, and knew it could be political suicide for his Presidential run if he voted against Bush, since Bush would then wrap 9/11 and the patriotism thing around his neck, and ending any hope he had of being President.

In any event, there is no comparison between the intelligence of the two, and we really have no choice. The debates last night only highlighted how dangerous it is to have a mental midget in the White House. As I heard one person say, the scariest thing is that Bush has weapons of mass destruction at his disposal! If we can just get intelligence back in the White House, and not be spat on by the rest of the world, then that is a lot.
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6th Borough Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. But the Germans did have an exit plan for Stalingrad...
which was to win the battle. Oh shit...feels like deja vu all over again...:crazy:
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Sophree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. You're right.
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 04:38 PM by Sophree
Maher's criticisms are ill-informed. I love his show and I don't mind him criticizing Kerry, but I think Kerry's laid out a pretty clear strategy for Iraq in his recent speeches and hammered it home in the debate.

In addition to saying that we need to train an Iraqi security force and bring in more allies through better diplomacy, a summitt, etc., during the debate, regarding our long term plans in Iraq Kerry said,

"And I think a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn't have long-term designs on it.

As I understand it, we're building some 14 military bases there now, and some people say they've got a rather permanent concept to them.

When you guard the oil ministry, but you don't guard the nuclear facilities, the message to a lot of people is maybe, "Wow, maybe they're interested in our oil." (A point we've been making here for a while.)

I thought Maher sounded like he oftens does- like he needed to actually read and/or pay a little more attention and inform himself a little better. Maher's focus is comedy and he's GREAT at it, but we have to call him on the right-wing talking points that he sometimes (probably unknowingly) repeats. I don't think it's intentional, just a little laziness and/or a wish to appear fair-minded/independent.

On edit: I thought his show was freakin hilarious last night. LMAO
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. I agree. We do have a choice and Maher isn't a Dem,
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 03:17 PM by saracat
He says he is more a libertarian, though I think he is Independent. However , I don't think the bashing of Dean falls in the same catagory as Dem wasn't the nominee. Right now Kerry is all that stands between us and total disaster. Maybe some don't see this election that way, but I truly am frightened for this country. I have already made plans to leave , though it will be difficult and cause signifigant loss, If Bush is reselected.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Maher practically called Steve Moore everything in the book.
What are you talking about? My goodness, Kerry is a good candidate and he will do well. The worst thing you can do is tell Bill Maher what to say on his own show. I am shocked.

Same way with Hardball. We have decided that Chris Matthews sold out his soul for profit, so we don't watch him. That simple.

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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Sure, he beat up on S Moore. The audience and the guests
treated SM like a nutcase. I was actually surprised Bill got so hot under the collar with that guy. He's much less obnoxious than some of his other guests. Maybe Maher was just sick of such obvious BS. Who knows?

My point is this: Bill is berating Kerry for not doing things that Kerry HAS been doing. If Bill paid attention, he'd know that. But in a way, he's as unprepared for his show as * was last night.

I assume Bill agrees with Tucker Carlson when he said, and I'm quoting, "Kerry is a coward," on his Iraq war stance. No. Kerry is consistent on his war stance. But Bill deosn't utter a word, allowing Tucker to attach the "coward" label to JK.

Bill sez there's "no difference" between * and JK on the war. Do you believe that's true? Do you think Maher has bothered to actually explore JK's position, or is he just mouthing the RW talking points?

Even my wife - who is a huge BM fan - remarked "that's not accurate" about something he said during the Dixie Chicks interview (I'll try to remember what it was).

The "Kerry STILL has said what he'd do differently in Iraq" is a major, RW talking point. But it's not true. Bill plays right into that because he's uninformed by choice on certain issues.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. Amen, stopbush . You have said it all.
I stopped my commentary because of the lack of understanding regarding the campaign.But you have such a knowledgeable and well thought out post I have to say thank you. Your statement
"Carlin explained it perfectly: Kerry pricked the "bush is an expert on foreign policy" balloon last night and gained cred. He has more time and more debates to exploit the door he opened. Had JK followed Maher's wishlist, the story today would have been how mean and spiteful Kerry was. Bill doesn't understand that a campaign is a series of events, not a single-night prize fight." encompasses everything I would have liked to say.
There are those that are actually just nurturing primary grudges and like Bill, " can't see past their own prejudices" and mask their complaints under the guise of "free speech". I don't advocate any suppression of free speech but conversely ,I resent it that others make me feel uncomfortable about criticizing the usage someone like Maher is making of his free speech. I think it should be acceptable for me to think he is being stupid to bash the only candidate we have, regardless of what he may personally feel.I have the right to think he doesn't know squat about running a campaign or debating. I enjoy some of what Maher does, but I reserve the right to criticize Maher for not having campaign smarts and I reserve the right to distinguish between constructive criticism of Kerry and Kerry bashing.

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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. What? I'm one of the sloooow ones...And what ....Tell me 'bout
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 02:00 AM by Zinfandel
Free Speech!

Tell me what's it mean to you dude?
Truly, please explain???

Free speeh?
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
37.  Shit! Good for you!
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
42. Maher's an asshole. I can't watch him anymore.
I hate people who try to play both sides - eat his cake and have it too.

Glad you enjoyed his show.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. I missed half of it on Friday, so I will watch again.
Besides Carlin, stay for the Tucker Carlson interview where Tucker admits he may not vote for Bush because of his indecision on 9-11. He is leaning toward voting for Kerry. He says something to the effect that his wife and children were in DC that day and if the last plane hadn't gone down before reaching Washington, they could have been killed.

Now I know the world has turned upside down.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
49. It was worth paying for hbo
all those times when NOTHING was on ..just to see the Dixie Chicks..

That was Primo TV..they were funny, poignant, articulate, and Funny!:D

Carlin was pretty damn good, too!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
52. It sucked as soon as he brought on the panel, so I changed it.
The bullshit he sudggestws Kerry needs to say would cause Kerry to lose the election.

Fuck Maher.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Yeah, I muted out the panel mostly...
I got one thing that Katty Kay, from the BBC, said..

She said tony blair apologized to the British people about the no WMD in Iraq..can you imagine gwbush apologizing to the Americans?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's on HBO2 tonight at 10:00PM EST on my cable chanel.
Hope this helps you find it.
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George W. Dunce Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. To quote John Edwards on Imus Friday
'we want your support,without the whining" Bill might want to take the advice.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Edwards said that to imus?!!!
Wow! I love it! Straight UP!!
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. oops-dupe
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:20 PM by ocean girl
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. My favorite part was the hurricane plywood
on the Del-Raton trailer park during the New Rules segment. It's near where I live and it's one of the last "old Florida" trailer parks on US 1 in Boca/Delray. I keep waiting for a developer to raze it and I figure if my unemployment continues much longer, I may be living there instead of on the ocean.

Maher=Love=Hate.
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Sophree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Good for him.
Quit your whining! Love it.
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