"Fuck Bush" bumpersticker riles co-worker.....

[mopaul]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/238231p-204191c.html

What do you do when you come to work one day to find a bumper sticker over a co-worker's desk that reads, "F- BUSH"? Bradley Londin, a 25-year-old registered Republican, tried to ignore it when an officemate at his midtown recruiting firm was armed with a mischievous smile and the sticker he knew would enrage his colleague.

Welcome to the election-year workplace. Neutrality is nonexistent, partisanship is taking over the water-cooler confabs, and more and more people are being lured into the political ring against their will. "It's inevitable - you're going to talk about it at work," says Andy Corts, a 27-year-old health-care consultant. "The last thing you want to do is offend anyone, but you want to stand by your views."

[Bunny]

1. I wouldn't put up with that at work.

It's pretty inappropriate for the office, because of the F word.

[Coventina]

2. Have to agree. I wouldn't tolerate "Fuck Kerry".

As much as I agree with the sentiment of "Fuck Bush" it IS totally inappropriate for the workplace. I think the legal phrase is "hostile work environment".

[rfranklin]

4. It was Dick Cheney who made "F_ck" an acceptable workplace word...

And all the Republicans said it was alright with them. So what can you do?

[Coventina]

6. I refuse to let Cheney lower the standards

that I have to work under.

[unblock]

10. not legally relevant

there's no legal restriction about politics in the workplace (as long as the workplace is not the government).

it's actually perfectly legal to hire and fire people based on party affiliation. it's stupid to do, for business reasons, except perhaps for partisan lobbying companies, e.g., but it's perfectly legal.

and the f-word itself doesn't create a hostile work environment unless it's used in a sexual context, which isn't the case here.

[mopaul]

12. if my co-worker had a 'fuck kerry' sticker, i would NOT complain

i'd seriously would not have a problem with it.

[unblock]

14. i'd complain. it's inappropriate. just not LEGALLY unacceptable.

[Coventina]

15. Anyplace I've ever worked would can someone for the use of "Fuck"

in either a sexual or non-sexual manner.

Maybe it isn't the law, I'm not a legal expert, but it sure seems to go against company policy as I've experienced it.

On edit: "Harassment" doesn't have to be defined sexually. I've known several cases of harassment that were pursued at my former workplace that were "hostile work environment" that had no sexual aspects.

[Gore1FL]

16. Jeez

I get into swearing binges at work.

[Coventina]

18. Oh, believe me, there's plenty of f-bombs that get thrown around

but always out of the earshot of those who would either 1) report or 2) be offended ;-)

It's life in big organizations.

[unblock]

17. well, sex discrimination isn't the only thing that's legally barred

you also can get sued for creating a hostile work environment based on religion, race, or national origin. all those are legally banned.

but from a legal standpoint, you CAN create a hostile work environment for other reasons, e.g., politics.

of course, more companies are more cautious that the law lets them get away with, and they have policies against politics in the office and also against foul language in the workplace, even though there's no legal need for them to do so.

the work "f*ck" in particular kinda crosses into both areas. if used in a sexual context, it could easily expose the company to a sexual harassment suit. however, there's not legal problem if used in a NON-sexual context. nevertheless, most companies don't relish having to go to court at all, even if they have a sound case, and so it's easier to have a policy against using that work an ANY context.

[mopaul]

19. in a corporate office, or in an auto body shop....there's a difference

nobody cares if you curse in a body shop, unless it's in front of the customers. in a corporate office of course, it's innapropriate

[Occulus]

30. Never worked in a factory, have you?

[Selwynn]

31. You're wrong on that. Example:

There are examples where people have been sued for harassment for political expressions. A person first goes to the company and tells them that this person's statments, art, posters, etc. on display publicaly are making him uncomfortable, and that perosn shows that they are not relevant to work in any way. He/she files a harassment complaint with the company. Harassment doesn't just mean sexual, and it is not restricted to direct and personal conduct if you know your HR employment law.

If the company ignored the complaint or failed to take action on it, the employee could sue the company and likely win.

[unblock]

36. well there's certainly no federal law against it.

again, except in government offices themselves.

companies CAN have further restrictions, and most in fact DO. THEN there may be a legal problem, but not because of federal law, but becuase an employee violated an employment contract, or the company violated its own promises from its employee handbook.

i'll also concede that i don't know state law in all 50 states, so there may be some state law that prevents it, though i highly doubt it, as in fact it's most likely unconstitutional to have a government law banning political discussion in a private workplace.

[Selwynn]

38. Well, yes, there sort of is

I know what you are trying to say - you are trying to say that there is no federal law specifically against putting up a sign at work that says "fuck bush."

And while that is technically correct if you look at it with squinted eyes, it can also be said that there is in fact federal law against harassment, and that this most definitely could be treated as a harassment case.

As I indicated above, and employee would need only to lodge a complaint with the HR department of the company, explaining that his sign had zero to do with the working environment and that she felt uncomfortable/harassed by having to be exposed to it each day and she would probably win on the sport. If she (or he, sorry I was thinking of someone specific while writing this) didn't get the action she desired, she could sue the company and probably win.

A first-amendment free speech argument doesn't necessarily protect the Fuck Bush guy in this case, because the company has a legal obligation to provide a harassment free work environment. The company would need to show how having the "Fuck Bush" sign up was necessary and relevant to the working environment (which it is unlikely to be) and then show clear cause why not honoring the complainers request was necessary to the business, etc.

It's always possible that the person would lose the suit, but it would be a pretty strong case.

So to sum up, technically there is not specific law that says "though shall not put up Fuck Bush stickers at work." But there all a wide array of anti-workplace harassment laws that include speech harassment and other kinds of exposure harassment that are not specifically related to direct one one one assault or physical harassment of some kind.

[GinaMaria]

33. it is in mine

we sign ethic agreements that includes no campaigning in the office. We also sign diversity agreements about repecting differences.

We also recently got a memo about profanity in the workplace. It is considered hostile in our corporation. The warning is out there. Won't be long until we are signing agreements about profanity too.

[unblock]

37. as i've said, your COMPANY can impose further restrictions

but the government require the company to do this. if your company wanted to (stupid business decision on their part, but) they could permit all manner of political discourse and/or require everyone to be registered republicans and hire/fire based on that criterion.

but most companies would prefer to stay out of politics (outside perhaps at the senior executive level) and therefore the companies voluntarily ban workplace discussion of politics and profanity and such. but, that's a voluntary restriction the company has taken on, and they are free to hire/fire consistent with that policy.

[Selwynn]

39. I'm sorry, but you're wrong on that.

The government can require the company to do this.

The company could not permit all manner of political discourse without a huge harassment lawsuit. And a company could not require all employees to register republican NOR could they hire based on the criterion - it actually IS ILLEGAL.

I am a Project Manager for a fortune 100 company, and as part of my I have also interviewed and hired many candidates. As part of my job I am required to know employment law. And you most certainly CAN NOT HIRE on that criterion. You're not even allowed to ask the question. It is AGAINST *FEDERAL* law and an interview candidate would have a law suit against you if he/she felt he/she didn't get the job because of the answer.


EDIT - not all companies follow the law was well as other companies, but the law is still the same, and when they don't follow it, they open themselves up to lawsuit.

[RebelOne]

3. Agreed.

I don't think that this person showed good judgment.

[oscar111]

5. better to give reason to switch- 6 top ones listed herein-READ pls

i understand the feeling, but it is better to give evidence:

"wages lower than when Reaganomics began"

or.. bush will draft

or .. kerry bled, bush fled

or .. bush gives tax breaks for outsourcing

or .. YOUR job can be outsourced to the slums of India.

or.. Petgoat bush froze on 9/11, and will next time too.

[TexasSissy]

32. I agree. It's sole purpose is to inflame. It's disrespectful to anothers

candidate. It's not being FOR a candidate, it's being AGAINST your co-worker's candidate. And it's vulgar.

[mopaul]

7. the article says 'F-BUSH', so it's a little fuzzy

if it said f-bush it's still inflammatory, but a flat out 'fuck bush' is a little more harsh.

[bluestateguy]

8. My job is covered under the Hatch Act

So a lot of that kind of stuff is not allowed where I work.

On the other hand, where my mother works some employees have been trying to get the channel changed in the lunchroom changed from CNN to FOX because "they're all Democrats on CNN". Another time my mother heard some woman say that "all the Christians are voting for Bush."

[mopaul]

9. the word 'fuck' is extremely overated............

it's just a sound vibration that comes out of the mouth. i've heard the word 'fuck' a million times and NO HARM has ever come to me from the hearing of this sound vibration.

i've seen the word 'fuck' uttered in front of small children too, and no harm came to them. they survived.

and adults should not be offended by a mere word. and what a useful word! we all need to grow up if a word offends us so.

[Disturbed]

11. What the fuck?

"they're all Democrats on CNN".

Are there any?

[Toots]

13. Words are more than just sound vibrations, they have meaning

Words sometimes can hurt more than any physical blow. Some words are just plain inappropriate.

[Beam Me Up]

25. It isn't the sound vibration that carries the meaning.

The meaning is in the mind of the one who hears. Thus this discussion. MoPaul doesn't hear offensive meaning in the word. You or I may.

[crispini]

20. Well, in my office, that would be inappropriate.

We ALL talk politics... on the downlow, on breaks, at lunch, by the water cooler... but we do it very quietly and politely and respectfully.

Except for that one guy that has a "flush the two johns" sign up next to his door. I really wanted to go by after the debate and say "Don't forget Poland!" but I refrained.

[fudge stripe cookays]

21. Yes, and...

I used to be pretty good friends with the guy crispini mentioned. We've stopped speaking except for the occasional "hey."

I used to park right near our back door with all my dem bumper stickers. Lately, I've been parking with our ever-growing Kerry contingent out front.

The other day, I parked in back for a few hours, and his truck is now adorned with Bush/anti-Kerry stuff. Guess he got pissed off enough to "show me."

It's so tempting to put something on his desk, but....I've refrained too!

[Radius]

22. At my job you'd be on your ass in 5 minutes, and rightly so(nt)

[BiggJawn]

23. "Buck Fush" works better.

Fellow I work with has that, "Crawford Texas wants you to return their Village idiot" and "Help is On the Way" up in his cube.

He's my friend!

[NoPasaran]

24. I think that vulgarity posted in the workplace is inappropriate

And people who can't seem to speak a sentence without using some form of the F-word really need to improve their vocabularies.

[timtom]

28. Please don't misinterpret this..

I have a pretty good vocabulary (some might even say exceptional). I try not to overuse the "F" word, but, truth to tell, in the last 4 years, I have noticed an increase in my use of the word, mixed in with a string of imprecations, curses, and incantations, every time I hear Bush's slimy little voice. This is also true whenever I hear anyone in a public forum defend him, his cabal, his family, or anything he has done in his miserable life. It's sort of a "Tourette's syndrome" brought on by a brief exposure to consummate evil.

So vocabulary and epithets don't necessarily cancel each other out.

(If I used emoticons, I would insert a grin here.)

[Occulus]

34. untrue

The idea that people who use profanities are somehow uneducated is quite simply untrue. It's a myth, spread by those who become offended by words the meaning of which they already know.

For example, I've had a high-school graduate's reading comprehension since third grade. Yes, that's true; it's what I tested at- repeatedly. And I happen to now use the word "fuck" on a semi regularly basis. I also read Les Miserables (unabridged).... in seventh grade. An eighth grade book report was on Gaston Leroux's Phantom of the Opera (the original novel). I'm currently devouring The Dark Tower... finishing it in about four days. I happen to be very well-read, thanks, and I couldn't care less about my use of language.

It simply is not possible for me to "improve" my vocabulary. It's already as good as it's ever going to get.

You want to know why I just don't care? Because after almost thirty years of being polite, respectful, and helpful to almost everyone I meet (or trying to behave that way, at least at first), and getting kicked in the teeth and spit in the face for my trouble, and not having anything good at all come of my good behavior.... fuck 'em. ALL of 'em. I too jaded at this point to fucking care.

So.... fuck it. Being nice has gotten me nowhere but hurt. At this point, I could fucking well care fucking less what the fuck people fucking think about my fucking use of the English fucking language.

And you can fucking take that to the fucking bank. :)

Now, please pardon me; I'm going to go look up the etymological history of the word "fuck". ;)

[NoPasaran]

40. Don't get me wrong; I can be as profane as the next guy

But if you do have a large vocabulary but your level of discourse never rises above "Fuck that fucking fucker!" it's like having a box full of tools but only using the hammer.

Have you ever actually been kicked in the teeth for being polite?

[George W. Dunce]

43. Agreed

[Zorro]

26. What about a "Cheney Bush" bumper sticker?

That would send an appropriately mixed message, don't you think?

[mopaul]

27. i like that one

and it's true

[Selwynn]

29. Yeah, if a person did that at my job they would be fired - and that's good

We keep politics out of the work place. The rule is, no political or religious material may be posted on the outside walls of our cubicles facing others, or public hallways etc. You can decorate the inside of our cube - the things you're going to see every day but not others on a regular basis - with things that you want.

I like this rule.

[davsand]

35. I work in government offices. We CAN'T be political at work.

Open campaigning at work is expressly forbidden by an ethics code we work under. It was designed to protect employees from abuse in the workplace as well as from forced "contributions" to an elected official who is their boss. Pus, I gotta say, it is taxpayers that pay my salary--and GOP or Dem they deserve to have us all focus on the business they pay us to conduct.

Do we ever talk politics? Sure we do--but it is reserved for break time or odd moments. Do I know the political leanings of the rest of my office? Of course I do, and I'd love to change some minds there. It is NOT, however, a place where I can put up a "Buck Fush" sticker simply because it is government.

Now, something I do think should be pointed out to ANY business that puts our personal attitudes from that workplace, is the idea that you can gain business by doing that. Equally, you can LOSE business by putting out those attitudes. I know durn well that several of you on here would NOT set foot in any business that had a "Fuck Kerry" sign on display anywhere on the premises. I have to wonder if they have stopped to consider that in writing the workplace policy...

I'll be the first to admit that employees should be able to put whatever they want on their cars or inside their cubicles out of public sightlines--freedom of expression does (or should) extend into the workplace. I do not feel, however, it should be allowed to hurt the business by either distracting from work to be done or by offending patrons of the business.

Just my two cents from a government wonk.

Laura

[noiretextatique]

41. two of my coworkers have flags outside their cubicles

tacky 911 commeration-type flags. i work for a government agency...no one says anything about that.

[davsand]

44. Oh--you can be as maudlin and pro-US as you want!

That office used to be just ALL tricked out in Red White and Blue and nobody said one word about THAT. Some of the offices in our building SILL are and nobody thinks anything of that. Makes me kinda ill, if I'm being honest, but it is just how it is.

I guess nobody would dare to complain if they thought it was "too patriotic." In fact, I'm wondering if it is possible to be "too patriotic" these days. It is awfully jingoist here in the US anymore...


Laura

[Cha]

42. FUCK BUSH!

MURDERING MONSTER!