Michael Moore was offered the Killian Memos for F911

[Killarney]

At a speech over the weekend at the University of Central Arkansas, Michael Moore said that he had been offered the 'Killian memos' during his work on Fahrenheit 9/11, but passed on them, considering them unreliable.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/000097.html

[saracat]

1. I don't believe it. Micheal Moore is trying to be self

important as usual. I think it is disgusting how many people have their knives out for Dan Rather. We say we want a concerned press and when one tries to fight for the truth, we crucify him. I admire the effort of Micheal Moore, but I don't adm ire Micheal Moore, and this is another reason not to like him. He is promoting himself at anothers expense. Dan Rather is the last real journalist out there. Who can we replace him with when he is gone?

[against all enemies]

2. Moore did a better job of fact checking.

[Vickers]

4. That's my take on it

I'm sure he knew the info in F9/11 was going to be scrutinized very thoroughly, and didn't want to take the chance they were fake.

Could you imagine if he HAD used them? Now everything in F9/11 would ipso facto be a lie.

[Kingofalldems]

18. This is more evidence of a Rove

connection. Maybe the first target was Moore.

[tinanator]

3. the last rancher maybe, but journalist? only in the CIA mold

but if thats to your taste, bon apetit

[saracat]

8. Yeah, well read up on Dan's history. He is not CIA.

If we lose him without complaint, we deserve FOX. CBS is the network of Murrow and Cronkite, and they have been targeted for elimination. Even the other networks acknowledged that. Bon Apetit to you!

[tinanator]

30. you think he would be there if he werent?

Uncle Walter certainly was. They were targeted back in 1982 or so by Westmoreland, and his side long since won that battle. Dan Rather is tight with Rumsfeld, shall we split one of their cows for lunch?

[saracat]

38. How silly! No wonder you like Palast!

[Wind Dancer]

5. Moore had the footage of detainees being

tortured so I don't doubt his story.

[Killarney]

9. Good point.

[Killarney]

10. Good point.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. How about Greg Palast (of the BBC) or Seymour Hersh?

Dan Rather is most certainly not the last real journalist out there. Give me a friggin' break.

[saracat]

12. Seymour Hersh ,yes. Greg Palast is a joke.

I meant television journalist sorry.

[coalition_unwilling]

13. Greg Palast is a joke? (Maybe that deserves its own thread)

I actually think Dan Rather is a joke (and a pathetic one at that) for backing down in the face of corporate assault on freedom of the press.

The White House when first asked about the authenticity of the documents did not question their authenticity. That right there is prima facie evidence, if any were needed, of the authenticity of the docs. Add to that Killian's secretary confirming that the substance of the docs accurately reflected the "sense around the office" at the time. Finally, add to that the U. of Utah Ph.D. dissertation that shows that the docs could have been typed on 70's-era Selectric.

All of which is to say that Rather caved in when someone with spine (like Palast or Hersh) wouldn't have.

[saracat]

15. Neither work for a network.

Sumner Redstone also backed down and endorsed Bush for the "sake of Viacom", the parent company of CBS ,and Sumner is a major Democrat donor who doesn't give a nickel to the repugs. That should tell you something.

[nodehopper]

21. I am still unclear on why that makes him a joke.

By your analysis all independent media is a joke, then.

[saracat]

27. Not at all. Palast gets too involved

in "tinfoil hat" conspiracy theories for my taste. He also is more of a columnist than a journalist. His opinion is very obvious, and that places him outside of the "news" catagory.

[K-W]

28. That is a myth about media bias spread by the right.

Just because he has an obvious opinion does not place him outside the news catagory. Whether or not it is news depends on one thing, whether or not it is an accurate account of reality. Every news source has an opinion, it doesnt matter whether they hide it or not, all that matters is the quality of the work they produce.

So discuss the work or dont discuss anything at all.

Prove to me that I shouldnt trust his work.

[saracat]

29. I don't like him enough to remember enough to seriously

quote him back to you. I seem to remember some bizzare stuff around 9-11. I don't say you shouldn't trust his work. I said I don't. JMHO. I am not trying to convince anyone to trust him or not. I just personally don't care for him. I don't like Lisa Caputo either for some of the same reasons.

[K-W]

32. I am properly skeptical of all information sources, but

unless you have some evidence to support your accusations about palast, I havent personally ever found him to be a bad information source.

[tinanator]

31. lol

Im sorry I was mistaken. Never mind.

[pretzel4gore]

23. bush is good for viacom?

the merican media has no credibility as it is, and if bush gets in again, he might well establish censorship etc to save his good name, yet redstone endorses bush? maybe he says that (he's aryan, after all) but surely not even rupert murdock, for example, could stomach 4 more ears of bush!
then again, the stock market loses when bush appears to fail(??)

[nodehopper]

20. how is Greg Palast a joke?

he reports on things others won't touch. He does not have the old-school style, but he is a damn good reporter in this age when most reporters are corporate lapdogs.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Greg Palast is no joke. He has compiled some very important

infor over the last few years regarding the screwiness of our election system.

[tinanator]

34. yeah, but look what Rather has done for us

tell me where to line up, Mr President!
no wonder she doesnt like Moore, he pegged Rather.

[saracat]

36. No I don't like Micheal Moore for the reasons previously given

And I have a family affiliation with CBS and know the integrity of their newsroom. It is too bad that no appreciates it because it will soon be gone!

[tinanator]

37. the way you appreciate Palast?

I think your rose colored glasses failed to appreciate its prior passing.

[saracat]

40. The way I don't appreciate the Enquirer or the NY Post!

This is why We get the reporting we do. We trounce the legitimate media and the public watches FOX! You don'tt even appreciate Cronkite or Murrow. What is left are tabloid journalists!

[tinanator]

43. take it up with Carl Bernstein

simplicity is no refuge from history.

[saracat]

44. Bernstein I respect.

[progressivebydesign]

16. The last television journalist... a dying breed. n/t

[robbedvoter]

7. Who you gonna trust? Michael Moore or the GOP operatives?

I don't have a chip against Rather, but neither do I have a reason to doubt Moore. he is important enough without needing to confabulate. The moral of his story was not "i am better than CBS" but "they've been dangling their tricks out there for some time"

[saracat]

14. He can never be important enough to suit himself. He has made up stories

about police interaction and crowd restraint that were contradicted by his fans and used it as an indication of being a target long before he was considered one. Micheal Moore is not a Democratic supporter and was an ardent schill for Nader in 2000. Even an idiot could have seen what Nader was doing in 2000 and Moore thought it was peachy keen. I will never respect him for that and don't trust him now!
He also had zero respect for the families of the students at Columbine who asked him not to use the school either in the title of his film or to show footage. They were too raw at the point he did it. But self promotion was more important. He screwed the Columbine families and the Democratic Party in 2000. He helped give us Bush. It is great that F9-11 helps remove Bush but it doesn't exonrate Moore for heping install him in the first place.

[IdaBriggs]

19. You know I love you, saracat, but I disagree with you this time.

Michael Moore and a whole bunch of other people were working with Nader because he "promised" NOT to campaign in swing states and they really want a viable multi-party system in this country. When Nader broke his "promise" Michael Moore went to Florida and campaigned AGAINST him. It caused a rift between the two.

As for "Bowling for Columbine," I'm sure some of the victims didn't want the stuff used, but others did, including two victims who appeared in the film. I get that what's healing for one person may sometimes be hurtful to another, but I'm extremely happy the movie was made. The film was (in my opinion) incredibly powerful and moving in its questioning the violence rampant in our society. I was also thrilled when K-Mart agreed to stop stocking ammunition for assault weapons.

Michael also had footage of an interview with one of the first Iraqi beheading victims; it had already been edited out of the film, but after the incident occurred, he made it a point to show it to the families and REFUSED to release it to anyone else in the media (despite a huge amount of pressure by the rest of them). The family was grateful for the sensitivity and respect he showed them.

Its taken a lot of courage for him to do the F9/11 stuff; they've gone after him with everything they possibly could in an effort to ruin his career, and him personally. (He's got bodyguards now, which he never had before.) I don't always agree with what he says, but I personally admire him tremendously. Its a miracle the film was released as widely as it was, and its been a tremendous help in "educating" a lot of the electorate. Just SEEING Bush during those seven minutes after he's told "the country is under attack" has helped convert a lot of people -- hearing about it is one thing, but watching it on screen....(shudder)

I'm firmly in the "God bless Michael Moore" camp. :)

[saracat]

26. I admire the work Micheal Moore has done. I don't admire him personally.

He shouldn't have supported Nader to begin with. I have a hard time forgiving bright people who did that.And as for his rift, well, it was a little bit too little too late.
Like anyone else Moore is entitled to his opinion, but I am entitled to disagree. Idon't appreciate some of the things he said about Clinton and Gore in his books. He did a lot of damage that way.
I ,too am grateful for the work he has done. I think "Bowling For Coumbine" and F9-11 are extremely valuable tools to help lead social change. But I never feel sure that Moore can be trusted beyond the next opportunity to promote himself. His motives never seem entirely pure. But that being said, it does not mean the end result of his efforts is not worthwhile! But I fear that he will knife Kerry, or the Dems again when it is in his interest to do so. Some may say that shows his lack of bias but I see it as a lack of loyalty. JMHO.
I am insensed that he would attack Dan Rather, who is one of the only journalists on "our" side. Moore should be doing (and I have heard he may be doing a movie on the media) an investigation on what is being done to CBS instead of beating up on Rather. And now I will go buy F9-11 because I admire the message!

[charlie]

35. Attacked Rather?

I missed that story. Do you have a link?

[saracat]

39. Right in the original post!

[charlie]

41. Touchy

I read the article. I thought there was a story I hadn't heard. I guess this is the attack, then:

Moore said he looked into it at the time and concluded that they weren't reliable. Not surprisingly, he really didn't seem to have any sympathy for Rather's mistake.

[Sterling]

50. Someone has a "family affiliation with CBS "

And also seems to think you have to work for the media monolith to report the truth.

Someone seems to have a big chip on their shoulder and a fancy set of horse blinders to match.

[saracat]

52. Where did you ever get the idea that I think you have to work for a media

a media monolith to report thre truth???? And my family does work for CBS, in the interest of full disclosure. I do have a chip on my shoulder about the people who scream about our biased media and then trash a fine journalist like Rather. It is hypocritical. It is journalists like Rather who weren't afraid to report the truth and stood up to Richard Nixon that prevented us from floating away under Nixon. But , he is the last of a dying era .It is a shame that many won't mourn the passing of real journalism.

[IdaBriggs]

45. Its okay. We don't have to like everyone the same --

its one of my favorite things about being a liberal: we're allowed to have different viewpoints. I like how you get "righteously wrathful" when you feel people you respect are being attacked unfairly; its one of my favorite things about you! Plus, I do it, too! :) Best, Ida

[saracat]

47. I like you too IdaBriggs ! Ain't it grand to be a liberal and be able to

think? Neither of us drank the cool aid, thats for sure! Giggle!

[slackmaster]

53. Nit: K-Mart stopped stocking ammunition for handguns

Not for "assault weapons", which included rifles and shotguns as well as handguns. They still sell shotgun shells and several calibers of commonly used rifle ammunition.

[IdaBriggs]

54. Doh! Thank you for the clarification!

Its been a while since I've seen the film....:)

[charlie]

17. Burkett claimed to be a "source"

for the 911 film, so the two might actually know each other. Moore may be telling the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6039850/site/newsweek/

[Killarney]

42. I didn't know Burkett was a source for F911. Interesting.

[DURHAM D]

22. I don't understand your conclusions. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. From whom?

Did he say?

[Killarney]

24. Not sure. It says two things.

First it says:
Speaking Sunday evening at the University of Central Arkansas, Moore was asked during Q&A about the "Dan Rather story." After expressing some reluctance about saying anything, he told the audience that while making Farenheit he had been offered the same fraudulent documents by the same source.

Then it says:
Moore said he looked into it at the time and concluded that they weren't reliable. Not surprisingly, he really didn't seem to have any sympathy for Rather's mistake. He mentioned Burkett's name during the discussion, but never said that Burkett was his source.

Moore said that he hadn't shared this information publicly before.

[geek tragedy]

25. I'm not a big Moore fan, but this seems believable.

His issue has always been the way his presentation of evidence--the stuff he cites is usually rock solid.

Rather and Mapes just plain used bad judgment.

[K-W]

46. I just want everyone who "doesnt like Michael Moore" to remember.

We dont know the man personally, and because he is a figure of such polarization, we get very politicized information about him.

I personally wouldnt trust myself to make charecter judgements about someone in that situation.

[saracat]

48. My opinion of his rampant self promotion is based upon

my observations of his actions. I can arrive at a conclusion based upon that which I have observed. I do not know him. I am certain he has other qualities that I am unable to observe. Anyone is free to disagree with my conclusion. Each to his own.
I do find it interesting that those people who find my critque of Moore offensive, have no such scuples when it comes to slashing Dan Rather to ribbons.

[K-W]

49. I didnt find anything offensive and I havent said a word about Dan Rather.

I find your judgement highly suspect because information about Michael Moore is highly politisized. That is all. I make it a personal policy to not rush to judge people's charecters. I find it is a better policy. Take my advice, dont take my advice. For all I know Michael Moore is a jerk, I just have the sense to know that I am a bad judge of people's charecters that I dont personally know.

[saracat]

51. The Rather remark wasn't directed at you ! It was a

reference to some other posters who do feel free to trash Rather. I was making a sort of whats goods for the goose point ! I am not trying to rush to judgement, I am in entertainment as well, and I notice self promotion. But your advice is fine , and I do follow it most of the time! Thank you for your clarification!